Background:  We have a house for sale and once it sells we should be able to get started on our building plans.  We want to go completely debt-free.  First we'll pay everything off when the house closes, then we'll increase our storage (food and supplies), and then start saving towards land.  We may do an owner-financed loan on the land, depending on whether we really want to live at my mother's for 2-3 years (ouch!) and which lot we go for.  Just let the economy hold out another 3-4 years...please!  

The land situation we're considering:  Most of the land in that area would take us 2+ years to pay off.  There is one lot that we could pay off in about 8 months, maybe less.  The kicker is that there is no road access.  I'd have to be there and walk the property (2-3 more weeks and we're moving!) to see if we could put in a trail where the road is platted.  I don't know, it might be too rocky (it's on a mountain top) that has required blasting in the past.  But, if we could put in a 4x trail, then atleast clearing the land and building would be doable.  I should explain that compared to many of you, this isn't remote at all...but here it is as remote as you can get without requiring a boat.

Two questions:
1.  Anyone have experience dealing with boroughs and whether they'll let you put in a trail on a platted but unbuilt road to your property?  You wouldn't think they'd object, but you never know about government and their rules...

2.  Would you move your family (with young kids --4 of them come September) to someplace semi-remote?  And we will be homeschooling, so that simplifies the daily commuting issue.  I guess overall I don't care as long as we can get some kind of transportation in there.  I'm not hiking through a high-wind rainforest with a newborn and a toddler.  Though the distance is really minimal compared to those of you who build on acreage...we're talking maybe 1/2 mile from the road that is 1/2 mile from the main highway.  Any experiences you'd care to share that relate?

Thanks everyone!

1. I would ask to be sure -- get it from the horses mouth.

2. I wouldn't think twice about it- I'd just do it if that was what I wanted to do.  I grew up in the semi-remote backwoods in Oregon although there was a good rock road and .6 miles to the highway.

 on question #2, there is no question I'd live remote or semi-remotely with kids.  Probably the best thing you can do for them.  We have two (three any day now) kids and will be glad to get back out of town.  I was raised in the country and wouldn't trade it for the world.  We are also in a similar position of waiting for a house to sell.

Every time I go to the city and see the graffiti all over the place - usually done by the dopers, gangs and illegals or their second or so generation, all I can do is say to myself g--d--- *#$*#&$ and ignore it leaving as fast as I can.  I get the urge to destroy.  This trash drug lifestyle population will probably ruin a lot of otherwise good kids and you can't be sure they are in good company every minute of the day. 

Better to teach them right and keep them away from the dregs of life than to have someone undo your teaching when you aren't looking.  They're only human.  Little humans, but humans none the less.

Glenn, I actually love it when someone says that homeschooled kids aren't normal and that the same will happen to our kids.  Looking at our society's "normal", I'm all up for that! 

I wish our "semi-remote" could include some real country (okay, so the way I picture it) with rows of fruit trees, plenty of garden to be worked, and lots of land for kiddos to run around on with 4 seasons.  We get four seasons here:  rain mixed with wind, rain mixed with sun, wind mixed with rain, and then rain mixed with snow.    We plan to get a big enough greenhouse to make up for it, though.  Something about there not being any such thing as ADD/ADHD when children grew up on farms...wonder why.

Possibly because the over -state school-educated idiots didn't get a hold of them? 

Whats wrong with having a desire to learn and getting some questions answered by someone who will take the time to explain it.  Many kids will understand the first time it is properly explained...except many times the adults who will label a kid with ADD just don't have enough brains to answer the question. 

To bad they didn't take the time to educate themselves enough to get by in all facets of life rather than just limiting themselves to the little specialty that their little minds could handle, so now they are stuck, rather than answering the poor kids question, with labeling them as having ADD and calling out the social worker to convince the parents to put the kid on drugs before they bring them back to school.

God save us!!!  We can't have young children running around the school thinking for themselves and asking questions. 
What would become of government and politicians if they don't get numb enough to believe all the lies they are taught in state sponsored school.  Quick -- get the ritalin.  There goes the bell -- salivate --- off to the next class like a good little robot.

Sorry Catherine -- I got carried away -- couldn't help myself.  I went to school before the age of ADD and child mind control drugs -- and had the curse of having a teacher who advanced us as fast as we could take it.  I was doing 9th grade algebra in the second grade-- and bored throughout the next 10 years of school.

No apologies.  You'd get along great with my husband.    And to think I had to bring him around to homeschooling.  Now the idea of public school disgusts him to no end.  We started out by researching gifted education due to our own experiences (similar to yours) and that led us to either homeschooling or moving across country and paying a fortune.  Then all in one weekend the homeschooling bit fell in our lap, so to speak.  We were introduced to "A Thomas Jefferson Education" just one day after my husband was utterly appauled by the junior high students at a local carnival.  We've since done more reading and have simply hardened our drive to homeschool.

Good for you. 

First off, I applaud you on your desire to go debt free- thats huge and it's great. 

I am not trying to sound negative against your plan, but for me this is not something we wanted to do for a few reasons.  I'll leave them up to you to consider if they may affect you, or your family.  However, if this is what you want you should go for it. 

I tend to think that me and my wifes job as a parent is to prepare our children for life as an adult.  It encompasses alot of things, how to deal with lifes problems, how to perform various tasks, the lessons of humility, honor, honesty, compassion, but most importantly how to think for themselves, and how to relate to other people.  I figure if I can get them thinking instead of just following they'll likely do alright no matter where they end up or what they are trying to accomplish later in life.  Life has many temptations, and it is unreasonable (to me at least) to think that they'll be 18 and on their own and make the right ones unless they are given some freedom to think and relate to other people along the way.  I think it's very natural to want to protect our kids, I do.  But I also want them to see some effects of bad choices because I want them to understand the cause and effect relationship between them.  Dont get me wrong, I am not saying I want them to see all the grafiti and drug violence thats everywhere, and not just innercity, but I want them to be able to function in the real world without being a victim as well.  Since it's impossible to protect them forever I think giving them the tools to do it is the best chance I can give them.  This is my opinion only, and it looks like I am in the minority on this. 

Another factor is medical.  I dont like doctors, I dont trust pharmaceuticals, I hate hospitals- thats where people go to die.  But -- when there is tramatic injury or illness I want to be able to get help.  I do not see the benefit in putting yourself in a situation where something relatively minor like a broken leg or snakebite that could be easily fixed in an emergency room can become life threatening.  This same concept applies to being able to call a fire department and get them to come as well.  If it was me, I would have to have a passable driveway or easement. 

I dont believe in ADD/AHD.  There likely just smart kids that need something to stimulate their mind.  Instead we zombify them with drugs -- disgusting. 

I don't believe in total disassociation from the world.  There are many good people and they somehow need to learn about the bad ones , bullies etc.  - but the state is turning out a very inferior product unless the child is self motivated to become much more.

They will not ever learn to to their full potential in a state school as the teachers time is many times wasted dealing with the time wasters and slow learners.  The fast learners life is on hold waiting for the rest to catch up. Another small portion of the dumbing down of America.  State schools, many times teaching state mandated crap.

There are college graduates who can't even write.

QuoteThere are college graduates who can't even write.

glenn, yes I have heard that a few times.  However, all I really can go on is my own lifes experience.  My daughter is about to finish up first grade in about 2 weeks.  At the beginning of the year she could not read other than a few words she recognized on sight.  She now reads on a fourth grade level and I have to get after her nearly every night to turn off the light (or flashlight), put down the book and go to sleep.  There may be parents out there that do not encourage their kids, do not push them, that expect the school to do all the work.. and those kids likely drop through the cracks of the system because teachers just do not have the time to deal with the behaviour problems that kids whoes parents do not pay attention to them bring.  But I do not believe that as a whole we are producing high school or college graduates who cannot read or write.  Like I said, I read alot of the things that make the situation sound horrendous and likely you have read the same.  However, my own lifes experience has not reflected this as reality - at least in my corner of the US school system.  If someone elses reality does not reflect this then they absolutely should do what they feel is necessary.  I'm just saying it's not all bad, theres still a lot of good out there. 

I wouldn't say that homeschooling is for everyone.  I don't do it so that my kids won't have to face "reality" at all... in fact, they see stuff all the time that gives rise to a lot of deep conversations.  But, I spent the entire year of kindergarten standing in the corner because I could read already and was bored with a class that was teaching ABCs and shapes...first grade was slightly better, but in general, I was bored with school throughout, and most of the practical learning I got was from friends and family.    Also, I saw a change in my niece when she first started public school that really disturbed me... she quit coming to her mom and dad with questions because she began to think that if they had to send her to someone else for an education that they didn't really know much.  She'd always been a pretty good kid, curious, but pretty compliant for the most part toward her parents, but after starting public school she got much lazier and wanted stuff that basically told you the answers without the work of curiosity, and she also became less respectful toward her parents and other adults. 

Our 3 and 5 year old can tell you just about anything you ever wanted to know about garden vegetables, chickens, and bugs. (And even more that you never cared to know.)  If they see some plant/animal they don't know, they know how to find out about it.  They can both read for themselves now, so they explore and learn a lot on their own, even.  I have caught the 5yo up late at night with a flashlight and her "bug book" (a field guide we got her for her last birthday) trying to sound out Lepidoptera.

The entire "homeschoolers are disconnected from the world" idea is poor logic.  How many homeschoolers do you know that actually exclude their children from social interraction and keep them out of "the real world?"  I'm sure there are some (I've met them even in public school situations), but that goes hand-in-hand with judging a religion by its worst or even non-practicing membership, which I too have dealt with plenty. 

Disconnection isn't our goal or plan at all...we want them to be able to know, live in, and understand "the real world" better than those that are blown about by it's whims.  We want them grounded so they aren't lost in the "real world."  Our children will be in the community and interacting with people plenty --that is actually a big part of our homeschool philosophy.  We want them to see how adults interact with others at the grociery store, at the dentist, paying bills, at the bank, with friends, out at dinner, etc, etc and thus learn socialization from adults with the morals and social code we want to teach them.  They'll have plenty of time for playing with friends and family, that's a majority of what they do now. 

If your daughter is ahead, I would watch her very closely as she progresses through school.  Be sure you are willing to allow her other options if it becomes clear something isn't working.  And you cannot wait for the school to tell you she isn't doing well...

I thought I'd mentioned it above, but the land I'm talking about is maybe 1/2 mile from the road, that is about 1/2 mile from the main highway...about 15 minutes from town and the hospital.  It is an island; you can't get that far away.    Like I said, it has to have a 4x trail or road or we can't build there anyway. 

BTW, I agree completely with allowing them choices and consequences.  We do our best to allow them consequences now when they are small so they can learn how to make good choices before the consequences are huge.  Example: We will let them get fish (or whatever they decide within reason!) as pets when they want to do so and they will have charge of them.  If they don't take care of the fish and it dies, that is a consequence I will allow them to learn.  Better they learn responsibility then (our oldest is only 5 and hasn't asked yet) than when taking care of a child...

"Since it's impossible to protect them forever I think giving them the tools to do it is the best chance I can give them.  This is my opinion only, and it looks like I am in the minority on this." 

I do not feel homeschooling or living an extra 10 minutes from town (due to a 4x trail) means we disagree about this principle.  Quite the contrary.  It just gives us a different set of problems to contend with when trying to do so.  For me, I'd rather have to set up play dates and schedule extracurricular activities than try to reteach/undo much of what my children learn at school.  That is what I'd have to do every day given my beliefs and the public school system.  Still, homeschooling my children correctly isn't going to be any easier (Oy!), but my efforst will be much more productive this way.

Seems to me that homeschoolers give an even broader education than school does...  just my observation.  The kids work at their own pace, everyday events become teaching opportunities, an active, highly curious child is not stuck in a seat for hours or getting in trouble because they cannot sit for hours & pay attention...  And the big thing is, what the school's basic philosophies are...  seems a lot are totally against any "Christian" beliefs, are teaching socialism, globalism, parents can be any combination to make a family...  if you are trying to instill a basic set of beliefs in your children that you think are the "TRUTH" then it is very difficult when a public school is teaching the opposite & often ridiculing those with that belief. 

Myself, I enjoyed school for the most part, as a young child, until Jr High...  I was the more compliant child, I guess & always did really good.  Got bored when I reached Jr High...  they just couldn't seem to get through to me the relevancy of some of what they were teaching.  I was one of those who sat in class reading books of my choice rather than listening...  I got by fine, but certainly wasn't engaged as the teachers didn't seem to be able to bridge the gap of what they were teaching into the real world.  You do get the excellent teacher, once in awhile, who can do this & motivate the kids...  but more often than not, it doesn't happen that way.

I had to work fulltime when my kids were growing up so didn't have the choice of whether to homeschool or not.  My oldest son was very, very active & also had Tourette's...  Don't know if I'd have had the patience to teach him - he drove everyone to distraction...  even the specialized teachers...  there wasn't the curriculum for home schooling, either, at that time or the support systems that are out there now. 

One of Glenn's sons is homeschooling his oldest son.  This is through the school - I was very impressed - they give them tons of teaching materials, do a lot of stuff on the computer (he is 6 y/o) & go on field trips on a regular basis.  They meet with school officials every few weeks to check on the progress.  Samson (grandson) really seems to like this process & he's like a little adult, anyway - amazes you in some of the questions he asks or statements he make, the insight...  Kinda like your kids, Homegrown...

One of my granddaughter started kindergarten in the school system - she didn't turn 5 until the end of November so is one of the youngest in the class but is already tutoring the other kids with reading.  She seems to like it & is doing well. 

So, what am I saying?  Every kid is different & will require different methods of teaching - public school has a one size fits all - but if the kid has been taught to think for his/herself & be an individual in the midst of it without getting in trouble for being an individual...  and especially if the kid is fortunate enough to get good teachers - it can be a great experience.  But if you are able to homeschool I would always choose that if possible, because you are being taught by a person who really loves you, knows you & has your best interests in mind. 

Anyway...  that's what I think, for what it's worth 

QuoteSomething about there not being any such thing as ADD/ADHD when children grew up on farms...

Yeah, and whoever said this is feeding you a line of horse hockey.  lol
as a teacher in ranch and/or farm country, 95% of my students have been either ranch or farm kids.  And ADHD still shows up.    
(In the old days it wasn't called ADHD, it was called a "naughty kid" and it was pretty hard on a kid who was doing the best they could)

So far as the original questions, I'm with glenn on #1, get it in writing!  And #2... you'd only be a mile from pavement??  My second baby was born 60 miles from the nearest hospital.  lol  I wouldn't even hesitate to move to "semi-remote". 
Go where you need to go.  Kids are portable and as adaptable as coyotes.