Hi all, I finally decided to join after months of lurking!! What a great site! It has been endless help for me and my project so far, so thankyou all. My cabin in the southern interior of BC, on the Arrow Lakes. Last year my father gave me this land, and within a few months we found out that the government was about to start regulating the structures in this area with building codes and such. I decided to build something right away since it would then be grandfathered in and certain rules would not apply. The area was a small settlement around the turn of the century when logging and mining were plentiful, and paddlewheelers ruled the river. In the 60's a damn was build and the entire valley flooded, along with several townsites. It's rich with history, and a beautiful place to be. The cabin is 16x20, the most basic thing I could think of because I am clearly not a builder, and since it was pretty much just me and my Dad, it had to be simple. We started it last spring, and working weekends for the summers we are almost finished the building. This is my first attempt at posting pics so bear with me. ???
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09002.jpg)
So here is a quick photo journal of what has happened so far. There is no running water (we have an outhouse so far) but I do have a well. We pump water with an old school cast iron pitcher pump, I hope to have the water up and running early next spring. Winter is fast approaching and the annual snowfall here averages about 14 ft so I'm out of luck this year.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09044.jpg)
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09139.jpg)
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Exterior siding is 1x10 cedar bevel.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09249.jpg)
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(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09254.jpg)
All the windows were bought for $575.00 from the place I work. (A building supply center)
They were misorders, but I was more than happy to take them off their hands. The sliding door was salvaged, it needs a little paint. The front gable windows are door lites, I just happened to have 2 of each size, so it worked out great.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09254.jpg)
This is the exterior at the end of last fall. It's pretty much the same now, I have been focusing mostly on the interior this summer. I still have soffits and fascia left to do, as well as critter proofing the underside. I hope to build a proper deck off the front next year, as well as maybe doing something with the piers. To skirt or not to skirt?? Any opinions? I've heard the skirting houses animals and mice so I am unsure at this point.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay091287.jpg)
Nice!! That's a lot of snow (14 ft) :o
We decided not to skirt our cabin. So far.
Reasons were: less work. I can get at the ladders, etc that I shove under there easier.
Drawbacks are: the floor may be a little colder when the winds blow, but we're not there all that much in the dead of winter anyways.
So mostly what I have been researching lately is a propane wall heater. I won't be using the cabin very often in the dead of winter, but occasionally we might venture out. A woodstove takes up too much room, we have tiny bedroom on the main floor because my husband is disabled, and an upper bedroom was not manageable for him.
I'm looking at direct vent lp gas wall heaters right now. Does anyone know if there are any major safety concerns with the direct vent type? There is no power in the area either, so baseboard heaters are out of the running.
We have a direct vent wall heater we got from Northern Tool. Housewarmer is the brand. It's made by Empire. Housewarmer is their "discount" brand; no remote thermostat was one difference. More of a plain jane case. It's the 18,000 BTU model. With an altitude adjustment its good for almost 14,000 BTU. We use it along with a wood burning stove to get our 15.75x30 cabin warmed up. Or by itself when it's just slightly chilly and not worth bothering with wood. It seems to work well for us.
Direct vent heaters are safer than non vented. Even though the good non vented heaters have low oxygen cut offs, they are still not good in my book. Dangers of CO are greatly increased. The only thing good that could be said about non vented heaters is that you don not need to cut/drill a large hole on the wall, and all the heat stays inside. Direct vent is the only type I feel comfortable with.
Direct vent also draw combustion air from the outside, as well as exhausting to the outside.
Any heater could pose a safety concern if something was to fall onto the top of the case.
The Housewarmer brand we got has a blower built in, but the heater can be safely operated without the blower so not having power just means that it might be a little slower to get the space warmed up. I'm not sure if other brands with blowers can be oiperated without AC power. Ours also uses a pilot light; it's not electronic ignition, which would need power. Some maybe use batteries for that, but that is a supposition.
Thanks MountainDon! The Empire 15000 BTu model was the one I was seriously considering. My only concern is with the high ceilings I have. The loft only covers half the space, the other half is open so we can take advantage of all the light the gable windows let in. Hopefully that won't be a serious issue, if I would've made a full second floor it would be mostly left unused by us except for storage and guests. I really love the open high ceilings.
Great looking cabin Betty! A few years ago my wife and I bult a small 20 X 20 cabin out of landscape timbers and we had a 10 X 20 bedroom loft. I put the AC upstairs and a small 3 brick Vanguard vent free propane heater downstairs and we stayed real comfortable. It was built on a concrete slab. We only used the heat as needed during the day but at night would turn it off, it was always plenty warm in the loft. w*
That view is priceless!
I like the window treatment you have in the gable end!
/.
Thanks Bayview! It was lucky I had those. Here's some interior pics from last year. I was trying to do something bright, like a 1940's farmhouse. I worked mostly by myself inside, so progress has been really slow but it's finally getting there.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/aprilmay09209.jpg)
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/aprilmay09208.jpg)
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We found this guy under the tarpaper as we were putting up the siding.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/aprilmay09212.jpg)
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/garden051.jpg)
This is the kitchen area. Nice bathroom window!! Well it was that window or no window at the time so I chose that. Kind of funny since we have no bathroom. The cabinets are hopefully temporary until I find something more suitable for the right price. They were free... woohoo. Eventually there will be a sink draining into some sort of grey water system. I was thinking on just a barrel under the cabin, so I could use it for eventual plants and stuff, but I am afraid it may attract bears. There are tons of bears here.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/aprilmay09029.jpg)
Wow, that is one gorgeous view you have there. Cool house too.
Nice project, Betty. 14 feet of snow ---- wow ... not for me. :)
Check well for propane leaks - seems it likes to collect in the low places when snowy sending things flying when it explodes sometimes. Maybe locate the tank downhill from the cabin if possible. Doesn't happen often but we occasionally hear of it.
w*
Very nice!
Another heating option that we are trying is a portable kerosene heater. No venting so that can be an issue. Kerosene isn't as cheap as it once was, but it is pretty safe and our heater seems to work well, although it took some practice to figure out how to run it so it didn't smell. There is basically one setting on this type of heater, so you don't have fine temperature control.
We are using this model or something very similar http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442151_200442151 (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442151_200442151) They come in bigger sizes, but since our cabin is just under 200 square feet this is all we needed.
Even with the propane heater, you might want another heat source to help knock the chill off when you first get there. If it were me, I would have a nice airtight wood stove as my main heat source when at the cabin, but sometimes it's nice to not have to worry about getting firewood. I used wood as my only heat source for about 6 years. Our current cabin is too small for a wood stove which is why we went with kerosene.
We can cheat since we have electricity, so we also have a ceiling fan which helps keep the heat from just staying in the top of the cabin. You might look into some sort of ceiling fan to help move the heat around. I lived in a smallish A-frame (maybe 20x40 feet) for about 4 years with only wood heat and the sleeping loft would be un-bearably hot while sitting on the downstairs couch you were barely comfortable.
Keep posting those pictures, it looks great!
Quote from: Pine Cone on September 28, 2010, 09:51:27 PM
Even with the propane heater, you might want another heat source to help knock the chill off when you first get there.
That's one of the reason we installed both the propane wall heater and the VC Aspen wood stove. With both of them going we cut the warm up time in half.
Thanks for all the info on the propane guys! Here's my latest progress, it's freezing here and I still haven't installed the heater yet.....procrastinator! ;) I was hoping to get more finished this summer, but I suppose I need something to do next summer and all the summers after.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/beaton022.jpg)
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/beaton018.jpg)
Much to my Dad's dismay I've painted all the el cheapo pine. If it was the nicer grade 1x5 t&g I probably would've left it. The one wall is, so it will stay natural as a sort of feature wall.
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/beaton017.jpg)
(https://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/5143betty/cabin/beaton020.jpg)
The center beam will be boxed in, and the weird gap in the horizontal loft support will be clad in a nice piece of white pine we have milled. Still can't figure out that gap...everything was level (ish) or so we thought.
Still need to install the fridge. No stove, just a tiny butane burner and a bbq for now. I really would love to build a screened outdoor kitchen area next summer. I'm looking at a rinnai double burner stove for inside. It takes up very little space, and as you can see space is at a premium here! Micro house is what we have decided it is. I really love Jay Shafer's mobile cabins, so I suppose this is my take on them.
Quote from: Betty on October 08, 2010, 10:34:29 PM
Much to my Dad's dismay I've painted all the el cheapo pine. If it was the nicer grade 1x5 t&g I probably would've left it. The one wall is, so it will stay natural as a sort of feature wall.
1x5???? d* I meant 1x6
I don't remember if you mentioned it or not - on grid or off grid? but if on grid, the Rinnai or Toyo oil heaters can burn diesel rather than stove oil so it may be easier to get than propane for heating - just a thought. They are about 98% efficient and small.
Thanks Glenn, I will look into them. We are off grid completely, although I did wire the place to run off of a gas powered generator. I have a few solar panels to experiment with. I would like to use them for lighting mainly, so I have been experimenting with various LEDs, so far they all are way too harsh on the eyes.
This is what I really want, but at less than 10,000 BTUs I might freeze.
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/propheat.html
Although we are only going to be using the place from April to November. I wish it had a higher output, I love the look. Power should be available in my area within the next 3 or 4 years so I will install baseboard heating then.
Just wondering, What is your elevation? I have a place in north ventral Washington, about 300 feet, and have a wood stove that I have not installed yet. I have used an 18K BTU propane heater, and have found, when in the 30's outside and insulated similar to yours, that the chill is off the air in minutes, and warm within an hour or so, although not put to the severe cold test yet. I have a 16X20 with a full oft, so very similar to your cabin. I know the further east in BC you get the worse it can be, but I have had good luck.
Okay, I also work outdoors and my girlfriend trains horses, so warm to us may be a little off to others!
The little diesel heaters are great but do use a/c for controls and fans.
They use a little power - 275 watts preheat and 46 watts burning - not much - .173 gallons per hour on high
http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/laserventedheaters/OM-22.php
Unfortunately, off grid - it is still a significant amount of power especially where you don't have a lot of sun. Cloudy days don't produce much power - but maybe you have running water or wind for turbines?
There are actually 2 people here with micro hydro systems. I really need to spend some more time researching it, but I do have a the perfect water source for one. This guy is about 20 minutes from me, he is completely off the grid with satellite phone/internet and the water turbine runs the whole cabin year round. http://www.magicallodge.com/ I'm not promoting him here or anything, but it's a very cool place to see, and the scenery is amazing. oops. I forgot to say..my elevation is around 1400 ft.
Cool place - informational links are no problem.
Wish he would have showed his hydro.
That could be a power supply for you then. Check it out a bit more. That would allow you to add some comforts and the oil furnace is way more efficient than any propane one could be. Maybe not so much in percent of efficiency, but in operation costs. Way more heat per dollar in the oil.
Betty, I don't know if you have a Princess Auto(northerntool also carries them) handy to you but I installed this 45,00 btu direct vent thermostat controlled forced air propane furnace in my cottage. Frequently Princess sells these cheap off season. I got mine for $350 including vent kit. It's really marketed as a shop heater but works great in an open plan cottage(no heating ducting required). I have this in my garage as well and in the dead of winter can heat up a 700-1000sq ft space 20 degress in 30 minutes assuming it's reasonably insulated.
It has a exhaust fan so you can run the chimney verticle or in horizonatal applications, it's not sealed combustion so you have to make accomadation for a seperate intake air supply vent. It does requires 1.6amps at 120V to run the blower moter and exhaust fan. But these are typically intermittent loads and my modest battery bank/inverter have no troubles with.
(http://members.shaw.ca/przemek123/heater1.jpg)
Looks good Betty. I like white painted tongue and groove boards.
Re heating I would strongly suggest a wood stove. They take up more floor space with clearances and all, and also the cost will initially be higher than most other options, but done right they are by far the most comfortable way of heating, IMO.
We lived at 1400 feet on the east side of the North Cascades, in an environment very similar to yours: lots of snow, lows around or below zero. Our cabin, for full time living was also 16x20, or about that, and heated with wood. Off the grid too.
The stove was a Vermont Aspen, the chimney elbowed thru the wall, and combustion air was ducted in to the back of the stove. Consumed much less than a cord per winter. We had low ceilings, though, which makes a difference in efficiency.
(http://coyotecottage.com/images/cabin/interior/woodstove.jpg)
The VC Aspen is a great stove. We have one too. So does Oljarhead. The outside fresh air kit should be included, IMO.
(https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/djmbucket/jemezmountainproperty2010-1/stovecopper01.jpg)
Just love the fresh clean look of your cabin. I think making your interior bright is a good idea when working with limited lights.
Just wanted to to say that we are hooking up our Housewarmer direct vent 18,000 btu LP heater this weekend. I want clean,safe and fast heat here that we can shut off and walk away. We also do not have power at our location. Our son used this type of heater in his fish house and was happy with it. We are hooking up a 100# tank and had the gas company make up the regulator for us. Will let you know how it works.(https://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae91/parkvu101/dcp_0468.jpg)
We are heating a 12x14 with a small loft
Pull that electrical cord for the A/C up and out of the way before firing up the Housewarmer. The heat output is high enough to possibly do some serious damage to it. Maybe turn the electrical receptacle 180 degrees so the cord goes up the wall and then tie it up out of the way.
Quote from: Betty on October 08, 2010, 11:58:38 PM
There are actually 2 people here with micro hydro systems. I really need to spend some more time researching it, but I do have a the perfect water source for one. This guy is about 20 minutes from me, he is completely off the grid with satellite phone/internet and the water turbine runs the whole cabin year round. http://www.magicallodge.com/ I'm not promoting him here or anything, but it's a very cool place to see, and the scenery is amazing. oops. I forgot to say..my elevation is around 1400 ft.
There are actually half a dozen micro hydro systems in the Beaton B.C. /Trout Lake/Ferguson area near you. Those are all 20 mins from you. Some have been operating for almost 60 years.
Not sure if you drive up to see Patrick at his lodge often but it is quite a bit further than 20 mins from you at Beaton, if a vehicle can get through the washouts. We are not sure how he accomplished building way back there, let alone exist with the rock blockages and bridges out all the time.
And yes, he has an amazing setup using geothermal and micro hydro, zero sewage is probably the biggest feet of his. Most everything has been either totally designed by him or extremely modified to make it better. My cousin new him at university and said he was inovating and designing off grid products over 30 years ago.
Can't believe someone has never done a full write up on what he has accomplished. We could all learn much from his designs/philosophies of small footprint living.
The mountain hostel is 20 kms away from my property, although it's a rough drive at times it's easily done in 20 minutes, especially on the Raptor. ;) It's a beautiful place, that's why my family settled there over 100 yrs ago.
Quote from: Betty on October 19, 2010, 09:44:24 PM
The mountain hostel is 20 kms away from my property, although it's a rough drive at times it's easily done in 20 minutes, especially on the Raptor. ;) It's a beautiful place, that's why my family settled there over 100 yrs ago.
Its actually not been the Mountain Hostel since 2008.
Its now the Incomappleux lodge.
You're probably one of the atv's that has come around blind corner at high speed and I've almost run over if you do it in 20 mins. LOL
It's at km 23.
Apparently I stand corrected...23 kms it is.
Thanks grandmasplayhouse! I can't wait to hear how it is. So great to hear advice from people who are doing the same things we are.
Have not logged in for awhile. Hope you are able to use your cabin more than us. Snowed a lot here and we have not been able to get to ours until we freeze up. Too muddy. When we hooked up our heater,I was happy with the way it worked. Very quiet and clean heat. The little cabin warmed up quickly and I had to get up in the night to turn it down. The heater starts with just a couple of pushes on the button (after the air clears from the line)This took awhile. Have a carbon monoxide detector installed. We used a 100# tank that should last us the winter for the few times we will go there. We didn't really like the hose the gas company made for us. They said it lasts longer than metal. Looks like air hose but is rated for LP gas and clearly maked for that.
(https://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae91/parkvu101/dcp_0503.jpg)
Took Mountain Dan's advice and tied up the cord on the air conditioner,Then made a metal heat shield for under the air conditioner cause this heater gets HOT on top.