NOTE: This thread has been split off from a discussion of an earlier MikeOnBike project, the 20x32 1-1/2 Story On The Rocks (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9024) (Hope this isn't too confusing! 1-7-11 John Raabe)
Sunday was the start on the fence. Monday was a start on the shed. I got John's 'Little House Plans' and we are going to build a 10x12 shed for storage and a place to sleep until the main cabin is closed in. 10x12 shed, 12/12 roof, 4'x8' porch on the 10' end. The holes are down 2ft. or until I hit pretty solid rock. I'll use 8" sonotube for the pier with 3 pieces of rebar running from the bottom to the top and cap it with a Simpson PB44 or similar to hold the 4x6 beam.
Question. Front to back elevation drop is about 12". Highest to lowest is 16". With the piers set in the hole almost 2ft. and connected directly to the beam with a bracket set in the concrete do I need any kind of bracing? I'm keeping the entire foundation as low to the ground as possible. The beam will be pressure treated and only about 4"-6" above the ground on the high side.
This next weekend I'll get the piers poured. The weekend after I hope to get the deck on.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10121_86_zpse5bd816c.jpg)
It rained last weekend so no work on the mtn. This weekend I was able to get the piers set for the 10x12 shed. 8" dia. pier, three pieces of rebar, 6" j-hook for the bracket. Water levels are great.
The next trip up is 4th July weekend. I hope to have the shed shell complete. It might only have tar paper for siding and roof but we can start sleeping in it and lock up some tools.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SAM_0006_86_zps8067e99c.jpg)
We also got the outer gate in and locked. Yeah, the road slopes that much, the posts are straight. We will probably put some gravel on the low side eventually.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SAM_0010_86_zps6340b21f.jpg)
RE: Your roof diagram above.
Yes, you can just bring the rafter down to the wall plates and nail it off to the rafters (as shown in the diagram). The knee wall would be optional but makes finishing the ceiling easier. Sloped ceilings coming to a point are not easy work on. :P
If you platform frame the upper floor and then attach the rafters to the deck use a metal strap or anchor between the rafter and the deck/ rim joist. This would give you a bit more ceiling height.
You should be fine with the pier layout you suggest. At any rate, you probably don't have enough height to do much X-bracing.
PS - diagram out the rafter layout in section if you don't do the balloon framed higher wall shown in the plans. It does make the rooms narrower and the stair headroom needs to be checked as you mention.
Mike, I'm curious -- around how much does land go for in that area? I'd like to find a big chunk like that (with water, LOL! That's excellent that you have a spring!) to share with my family like you are doing. Have one sister in Wyoming, brothers in Alaska, another sister and myself in Oregon, so the area where you are would be pretty central to all of us.
Kathleen
Kathleen,
Land prices really vary. I'm aware of land going for $250-$2000 an acre. There really isn't much available private ground around us. Most is BLM, in fact we are surrounded by BLM ground. I think there is more private land north of the Snake River.
The $250 an acre land a friend got at auction. He now owns the top of a mountain. No trees and I don't know how deep he had to go for water.
There is a fair amount of recreational land between Boise and McCall. I don't know but I have heard rumors that the prices aren't too bad with the current real estate low.
The cheap land has no trees or water, the expensive land usually has both. Probably pretty universal as land goes.
We got up to the property Sat. evening. A day later than planned so we were only able to work two days instead of the three I had hoped for. We built from the piers up to the rafters.
This is basically a 10x12 version of John's 10x14 from his 'Little House Plans' kit. We are building the gable roof so it can have a sleeping loft. It will be nice to get out of a tent and under a roof. It froze both Sat. and Sun. night.
I used foam for the floor insulation and sealed it with expanding foam for the small gaps against the joists. It was more expensive than fiberglass but I don't have to protect the underside of the deck. We went 16"OC with the rafters because of the snow load and it's only a couple more rafters on each side.
The windows are 3x3 and there will be a 2x2 window in the back of the loft for more ventilation. The door is 36" so we can get stuff in and out easily. There will be a 10x4 porch w/roof across the front.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10269_86_zps2a6ae946.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10271_86_zps13416a1b.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10274_86_zps9e603898.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10279_86_zps3fbfce48.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10282_86_zpsd660ad09.jpg)
Are the cages full of rock on the sides of your gates used for anchors?
Quote from: 325ABN on July 07, 2010, 10:21:19 AM
Are the cages full of rock on the sides of your gates used for anchors?
Yes, they are called Stone Bucks or Rock Jacks. The soil is generally very shallow on our property, sometimes none at all. It is very difficult to set a traditional H-brace anchor. The owner and fence builder also prefer the aesthetics of the stone bucks. There will be 25-30 of them by the time we finish fencing the 80 acres with 1 1/2 miles of fence. I think they hold about a ton of rock. They are built with 4 t-posts driven into the ground and then wrapped with no-climb horse wire. The fence wire is attached to the t-post on the far side from the direction it is headed.
We finally got back to the mtn. this last weekend and were able to put in another day on the shed. This is going much more slowly than we had anticipated. It has been a very busy summer with many distractions. Hopefully we can have this shed finished by the end of Labor Day weekend and get the next one started so it can be completed before winter comes.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10302_86_zpsd2345aa6.jpg)
Back to the mtn. for a few more days. This time we closed in the gable ends, installed the door and three windows and the small deck.
We are not finished by Labor Day as I had hoped. I think one solid weekend and we could have the roof and siding on. My helper won't be available for two weeks so I'm going to start on the next shed at my location 150' up on the ridge next weekend.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10319_86_zps5f0b4858.jpg)
In late Sept. we were able to get the soffit, fascia and one side of the metal roof on.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10320_86_zpsbbad6fd5.jpg)
This last weekend we completed the roof and most of the siding. There is just the trim and the paint to finish. We got heavy rain on Sun. night just hours after the ridge vent was screwed down. The four of us were very glad to be warm and dry for the night.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10325_86_zps6eaf50b9.jpg)
Great! It is definitely nice to have a place where you can get in and stay dry.
Do you get many snowmobiles through that area or does it just get pretty snow bound?
Have you done anything with your solar plans yet?
Were you able to get your piers in for your next building? Have you thought about doing SIPs at home in the winter time and taking them up to save some time?
The shed did get pretty wet a couple of times this fall but this was the first time we stayed in it and it rained.
There is a county road about a mile from the property that gets some snowmobile traffic in the winter. We are about 10 mi. from the summit where all regular vehicle traffic gets stopped for the winter so only snowmobiles make it in this far during the winter but I think they stay on the main roads. No groomed snow trails around here.
I have a 45 watt Harbor Freight kit that I'm going to use at my shed when I get it built in the spring. It worked very well for keeping my RV batteries topped off this summer. We may install a large setup at this shed for the main cabin for next spring but will probably just rely on the generator for construction and put in the solar for it the following year when it is habitable.
Much to my disappointment I didn't get a chance to start on my shed. I only have the holes in the ground but no piers. The plan is a 10x12 with 3/12 shed roof engineered for the record 12 water inches that we have received and a 6x10 deck with pergola out front. I'll start another thread for that with info on my cabin plans in the spring.
I need to do some more research on the SIP idea. I understand how to build them but I don't know if the foam will blow my budget. I could also prefab the 4ft stud wall sections to save some time too. I will probably save some time by prefabing the outhouse out of 4ft' stud panels and precutting the floor joists to 117".
My brother made it up to the cabin this last weekend and put some paint on it. It looks a bit orange but it is a nice 'terra cotta'. We still need to put the siding on the rear gable end. All of the window and corner trim has been pre-painted but needs to be installed. We should be able to finish all that and maybe the stairs if the weather cooperates this coming weekend.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10339_86_zps81af6cf6.jpg)
The loft is 9'-5" wide by 8ft. deep. The bed is a king size sleeping bag on a queen size air mattress with a nice wool quilt. The headroom from the loft floor is ~5ft. The window is 2'x2' for some light and ventilation.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10335_86_zps7e48d95a.jpg)
Its really coming together! your almost dine with the exterior it looks like
Oh, I really, really hope so!
My buddy and I made it up the mtn. for one last weekend of work on the shed. The weather on Sat. was overcast but a comfortable work temp in the 50s. The weather on Sun. was steady rain, really lousy for working outside.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SAM_0322_86_zpscb5bc438.jpg)
We insulated the loft/attic/rafter space. It stopped the breeze from coming in the soffits and kept the shed from getting really cold until just before daylight. Full insulation with OSB paneling is planned.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SAM_0342_8_zpsa8eb265f.jpg)
The heavy cloud cover made it dark quite early on Sun. We were able to put up the rest of the siding and trim the door, windows and shed corners. Nolan caulked the seams until the rain started washing the caulking out.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SAM_0343_86_zps4b297b57.jpg)
The rarely seen backside of the shed. The gable end received tarpaper, siding and window trim.
It was just too wet and cold to put any more paint on the shed. The finish coat and stairs for the deck will have to wait until spring. No more building trips this year. It is time to start planning the main cabin.
Hi!!
[cool]
I am exploring the idea of taking on the challenge of a 20' wide universal cabin some day. I need some practice / learning and want to build a 10x12' shed for my home... just like what you built!
Can you help me understand what you needed to do to modify the 10x14 little house plans to make it 10x12? (that is what you did right?)
Thanks-
duncan
If you have the 10x14 little house plans all you do is make it 2 feet shorter. I don't mean to sound flippant; changing length is easy. Changing width (wider) gets more complicated.
Place the piers in the same locations but reduce the beam overhang to one foot on each end.
It looks like one floor joist would be deleted. They are placed on 16" centers so the 14 foot length has one "odd" size one anyhow. The 12 foot will still have one that is an odd size. It'll all work out.
Window and door placement is all owner builder adjustable.
great! that should be manageable... thanks!
Yes, that is what I did. Don is correct. The base up to the rafters is just a slightly shorter 10x14.
The 10x14 is a shed/flat roof and I need a loft so we went with a 12/12 gable for the space. There are a lot of rafter calculators out there.
http://www.construction-resource.com/calculators/roof-frame.php (http://www.construction-resource.com/calculators/roof-frame.php)
http://www.blocklayer.com/roof/gableeng.aspx (http://www.blocklayer.com/roof/gableeng.aspx)
The loft is really easy to do and the pictures probably explain that.
I posted a pretty complete materials list here.
http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_617_0.html (http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_617_0.html)
Quote from: MountainDon on January 06, 2011, 02:59:18 PM
If you have the 10x14 little house plans all you do is make it 2 feet shorter.
Why Change the from 14' to 12'?
I am thinking of doing the exact thing this year on my property. Having a place to stay on the property will give us more time there and dont have to $$$$ for hotel rooms.
Thanks
Quote from: Net_Eng on April 12, 2011, 09:53:03 AM
Why Change the from 14' to 12'?
Possibly to meet a 120 sq ft rule? ???
I can't say why he went for 12', but I can say why I did. Most lumber comes in 8, 10, 12, and 16 foot lengths. Also plywood comes 4x8, so it was cost effective with less waste, less cutting, and less work to go with 12' instead of 14'. I built mine with hand tools, so the less cutting the better. The 14' length takes advantage of most jurisdictions of having a 144' square foot maximum without a permit.
oohhhhhhhhh!!!!! Thats makes sense.
I think I will do the same...
Squirl, how much you spent on yours to complete?
Quote from: Net_Eng on April 12, 2011, 09:53:03 AM
Why Change the from 14' to 12'?
We have a 200sqft. rule in our county.
This is just a temporary cabin. It really is a storage/tool shed with sleeping accommodations. In a couple of years we will have something similar to the 20x30 cabin at this site. We didn't want to spend any more than necessary on the shed. It did turn out to be expensive though. We are in range fire country and have no fire dept. We went with fiber-cement siding and a metal roof and door. At some point I need to close in the space under the shed to prevent flammables from torching it from underneath.
I also took into consideration the 4ft. standard materials size as Squirl did. So it was a matter of economic use of materials and not building any larger than necessary for the intended use.
I plan to build a 10x14 at another site on this property this summer. I'm going slightly larger because my wife and I don't want a loft. It too will be a temporary cabin but it will probably be about 5yrs before we build our main cabin so I'm more focused on comfort. I wanted room for a chair or two in addition to the bed so I'm going with the extra length. The other shed will look like the drawing below and I'll start a separate build thread when it gets underway hopefully in May if the dang snow will melt. We still have at least 18" and then there will be a week or two of 'mud'.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/Coyote10x14_zps7c2e2ad3.jpg)
That size would really benefit from a Murphy Bed. It would give you a lot more usable space when you aren't sleeping.
That's what I was thinking c*
There's a link on the referral thread that has a lot of murphy beds - quite ingenious but I'm sure very expensive...
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10394.0
Quote from: Pritch on April 14, 2011, 03:15:47 AM
That size would really benefit from a Murphy Bed. It would give you a lot more usable space when you aren't sleeping.
We have considered that. As Sassy mentions some of the solutions are expensive. For this season I'm just going to put the mattress on a plywood frame. We may find that a non-movable bed makes a good couch. After we build the main cabin and the shed becomes more of a shed/shop/storage then I'll probably make the bed so it can be folded onto the wall so we can use it for guests.
The snowpack is down to 18" so hopefully we can get into camp the first of May. It has been a wet winter for us.
Your have a really nice spot and cute mini cabin. Our little retreat is really small too. We just purchased a futon for sleeping. They make them better than the old college dorm kind that used to be around. The 8 inch interspring matteress was comportable this past weekend.(https://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae91/parkvu101/100_0112.jpg)
It finally dried out enough to get into our place. We have had lots of water this year. We have received 5" of rain since the snow melted 6 weeks ago. That is a huge amount for us. The pond is full, the overflow is running with plenty of water and the spring is flowing well too.
The shed survived the winter and looks fine. Maybe something chewed on the door jamb but that was it.
I only had one day this last weekend. The first step was to unload the shed. Out came the chairs, fencing supplies and lumber. I wired the shed for 110v with an outlet on each wall, a light under the loft and a 3-way light and outlet in the loft.
We insulated about 2/3 of the first floor and put 3/8" paneling on the bottom back and east side of the first floor.
More rain coming.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10410_86_zps4bc2ec0a.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10417_86_zps2c27169c.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10426_86_zpsb0ef852d.jpg)
Great to see things looking so good over there. I was wondering how things wintered and how you were doing. My wife said she read that the Owyhees were in places showing something like 400% of normal for moisture? Is that right? Over across the valley on the other mountain range we so far are a wimpy 150% of normal. Like you say more rain on the way.
Are you going to do solar or a generator or both or??? If I remember right you picked up a H/F solar kit last year when they went on like super sale? I will drop you a PM if I ever get time.
Eventually we will have the solar panels parked next to the shed. The electrics will be inside the shed and the battery farm will be in a vented box behind the shed. Short term we have a 4.5kw genset that we can use. I'm going to put a pigtail on the shed so I can plug it into the genset when needed. It will evolve to solar from there.
I'm headed back up this weekend to put the stairs in place and measure out the next shed project. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10977 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10977)
We have stairs! It took 11 months after the deck was completed but wives, mothers and grandchildren are all very pleased that I finally finished them. Still need to finish painting.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10453_86_zpsb020c528.jpg)
Nicely done, Mike.
Always inspiring to watch your progress.
I know you are enjoying the stays.
Gary O'
Looking nice Mike. Mothers might like a handrail. Not to rain on your parade but I was surprised at how many folks, younger than myself even, seemed shaky/wary about mounting the stairs when I first built ours.
I'm planning a bunkehouse as our next stage.
Quote from: MountainDon on August 14, 2011, 04:48:19 PM
Looking nice Mike. Mothers might like a handrail. Not to rain on your parade but I was surprised at how many folks, younger than myself even, seemed shaky/wary about mounting the stairs when I first built ours.
I'm planning a bunkhouse as our next stage.
Ha, I got the handrail comment almost the moment I finished the steps!
Looking forward to your bunkhouse build. Are you going to start this season? You have what, three months to get it closed in for the winter?
Yes, I think I may start next weekend; at least by Labor day weekend. That will be a weekend that will live up to it's name. :)
GReat thread :)
Quote from: OlJarhead on August 14, 2011, 09:23:42 PM
GReat thread :)
Thanks! I have enjoyed following your thread too. You've given me several ideas on utilities. The most recent is to use solar for a refrigerator. I had automatically thought of using a propane fridge because I grew up with that in the cow camps of my youth.
I've started another shed, unfortunately a bit late in the year. Most of my energy and focus for the rest of the season is now focused here:
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10977.0 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10977.0)
The fencing is started 'again'. My brother and I made it up last weekend and started clearing trees for the fence. He has been living and working at 6000ft. for the last couple of years and I have been living and sitting behind a desk at 2500ft. so I stayed pretty winded stacking the limbs in brush piles while he ran the chain saw.
In about 3 weeks we hope to have it finished on three sides. That will be one mile of fence. There is a BLM drift fence on the south side and we are going to leverage that for a year or so before we replace it.
We joke that all the topsoil on our place will fit into one wheelbarrow so driving the 350 t-posts is going to be a real challenge.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10571_86_zps40eec95c.jpg)
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10572_86_zps0272b75d.jpg)
In early Oct. we made the last trip to the mtn. and finished the trim and paint on both sheds. Finally, I hope, the wasps and moths will be sealed out. This shed had a terrible problem. Some trips we would arrive and there would be hundreds of wasps. We were gone overseas until late Nov. and there has been either too much mud or snow since then to make another trip.
I have a lot of winter projects for the shed to keep me busy. Shelves, solar panel rack, flooring, table, loft ladder and much more. Happy holidays to everyone!
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/2012-10-07_13-50-24_923_86_zpse97ef59e.jpg)
Just checking in -- good to see progress!
Very fun! The emerald green of the pond is amazing! Similar to Emerald Lake in BC I saw this summer just out of Skagway, AK.
Quote from: Huge29 on January 04, 2013, 04:04:13 AM
Very fun! The emerald green of the pond is amazing! Similar to Emerald Lake in BC I saw this summer just out of Skagway, AK.
I remember that lake! I took a motorcycle trip in 2000 from Idaho up into Alaska and then back to Skagway where we caught the ferry back to Bellingham, WA and then rode home.
Our silt does settle out after awhile, or probably more correctly, the cows get into it and turn it to muddy water. I really hope to get the fence finished this year. I only have a little over a half mile to build but it is steep and rocky.
Nice cabin! I'm building a similar sized cabin with a loft in California and had a few questions. It looks like you didn't use rafter ties on the areas above the loft. I've read a few threads where Don has mentioned that there could be issues with the rafters putting excess pressure on the outside walls if rafter ties are not used. Is your cabin holding up okay and have you seen any signs of sagging or wall spread?
Thanks,
GP
Quote from: GP on March 15, 2013, 01:37:46 PM
I've read a few threads where Don has mentioned that there could be issues with the rafters putting excess pressure on the outside walls if rafter ties are not used.
GP,
We didn't use rafter ties per se. We also didn't use a ridge beam. That would have worked and we could have used a header over the loft window to spread that load. In our case the loft joists that support the floor of the loft also prevent the walls from spreading. They are kind of like rafter ties but just installed really low. Actual rafter ties or collar ties would get in the way when using such a small loft. We had three feet of snow pack the first year but I'm not sure much of it stayed on the roof. The loft joists and rafters are 2x6 16"OC. There are no signs of spreading or sagging.
If you have snowpack like this guy you will probably need to do something different than we did.
http://www.mvr1.com/timberframing/timberframe6.html (http://www.mvr1.com/timberframing/timberframe6.html)
Thanks for the reply. I'm going to do the same layout as you have for the loft and loft joists and just wanted to make sure that everything was holding up. Luckily I don't have to deal with snow issues here in my part of California.
GP
How did the fencing go? About half of my property is lava cap. I used rock jacks at the corners and mortared largish rocks around some of the posts that I couldn't really get a bite into the ground with.
Still need to replace about a 1/2 mile before it will hold anything.
My neighbor used a rock drill and put two inch holes in the ground then set the t-posts with a little ready mix.
I think I'm going to try that next time. Seems a little easier.
My daughter and family have begun to use the cabin on a regular basis. I was 'informed' that the 4x10 'loading dock' just wasn't cutting it. With it's small size and no railing, young children and an elder dog were in serious danger. I had been 'told'.
I was about to build a shower extension to the deck on the upper place, my cabin, and it is going to be about the same size as the 'loading dock' so we decided to move the loading dock up the hill and build a new 6x10 deck. My daughter would have liked bigger but that was all I could do without pouring new piers and even at that smaller size it took a bite out of the wallet. All that would be reused here is the two piers and the beam between them.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SAM_0660_86_zpsf157f586.jpg)
We attached a new ledger board to the cabin since the joists were now 2x6 and lowered the beam over the piers to maintain level. The decking is Evergrain (Trex) like the loading dock and we added composite railing, horse no climb wire to corral kids and dogs and a pergola to hold up the greenhouse cloth. With a little planning the stairs bolted back on in their original place.
(https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/motoidaho/Cabin/SDC10353_t_zpsc7e190d6.jpg)
The view is excellent and it is a really great place to have a family breakfast or enjoy a cold one in the evening.