(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g-TjaKLmJko/T-6AOWXTmGI/AAAAAAAABqI/_pAtxUVZLCQ/s1600/wood+grain.jpg)
I found these 8x12 beams and cut one up for the mantel, now I've cut up more for balusters, railing, and trim. Before I cut into them I assumed they were old doug fir, just because of the size and the outside splinters looked a bit like it. When I cut into it though I knew it wasn't a softwood. Then I just sort of assumed it was red oak----until I saw some red oak. I found out it's left over from a tall ship building project over 30 years ago. It's very stable, very few knots, and very heavy if that helps.
Does anyone know what it is?
(http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/Periodic-Table-of-Wood-resize.jpg)
It might be from one of the several rosewood family. The gain looks a lot like the grain in the rosewood desk I am writing this from. Mahogany also even comes to mind. However you might inquire at one of the many universities down in S. Cal if they offer a way to test. To me it really does not look like a North American wood not that I know them all nor pretend to.
If it is rosewood when you get it all milled, fine sanded and finished the grain will be huge multidimensional deep and vivid.
Looks like mahogany to me.
I do not think it is mahogany (based on the pores and grain), nor do I think it is rosewood (mostly based on color). Perhaps there are varieties of rosewood this light, but I have never seen them ... then again, I am basing that mostly on rosewood guitar necks which may be it's own variety.
What makes you think it is not a red oak? I would lean towards white oak or red oak based on the open pores, grain and color.
Can you get an end grain picture?
What about the smell after a fresh cut? Did you notice anything?
Quote from: muldoon on June 30, 2012, 10:50:58 AM
I do not think it is mahogany (based on the pores and grain), nor do I think it is rosewood (mostly based on color). Perhaps there are varieties of rosewood this light, but I have never seen them ... then again, I am basing that mostly on rosewood guitar necks which may be it's own variety.
What makes you think it is not a red oak? I would lean towards white oak or red oak based on the open pores, grain and color.
Can you get an end grain picture?
What about the smell after a fresh cut? Did you notice anything?
One thing we learned about rosewood and it verities and working with it. Some will stay red or rose. Some pales as it ages, my desk is a lighter rosewood with a lighter finish and it is a sort of gold with red tones, it is heavy in grains and pores just like Van's example. The pores causes a lot of refraction of light. This gives dimension and depth on the finish so saith my wood finishing instructor. My desk when I get it all polished and buffed out it looks almost as if it glows with depth. We have a darker dining room set and it has dimension as well but not like my desk.
I will get an end grain picture. I don't think it's red oak for two reasons---red oak wasn't used for ship building because its endgrain forms tubes and isn't water tight. Second, I cut a section and cut through it and couldn't blow through it. I did the same test with some oak I had (which looks different) and air would pass through it. It doesn't have the typical rays red oak has.
When I cut it it smells like oak or olive wood.
I might get some sodium nitrate from work and test it that way to see if it's white oak.
Oaks are a ring porous wood, this is a diffuse porous wood.
Here's more pics and info on my guess.
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/honduran-mahogany/
edit, these are some board pics that show the overall grain a bit better;
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/mm5/graphics/woods_stacks_scans/closer/Mahogany_Genuine_1.jpg
Here's the end grain-- I took one with it dry and one wet
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sqp15Rmim2Q/T-_GN27vZaI/AAAAAAAABqg/d033N8-XyRU/s1600/wood+end+dry.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8SZHPbwrl0s/T-_GcQYmOEI/AAAAAAAABqo/w23gf5Pv-rY/s1600/wood+end+wet.jpg)
I had my wife look at your link, Don---she thinks what we have is redder (I don't see colors so I recruited help)
The more things I look at, the more I think it's some sort of mahogany. On one hunk I can count over 80 rings, and I was told it's been sitting around for over thirty years---I'm thinking this tree went horizontal over a century ago. Still using it for my staircase though. I still have to read up on rosewood.
Every time I see reddish lumber I think it's cherry--but I'm sure one of you guys would have already guessed that if there was a possibility.. I wouldn't mind being enlightened as to why it's not, however. :)
One of the beams I found is 9x14x 20' long---that would be one hell of a cherry tree
Cherry doesn't have the open pores this wood has. In oaks you would be seeing medullary rays radiating from pith to bark like spokes on a wheel in the end grain. The pores on the end grain are pretty evenly distributed, diffuse porous, where on woods like oak there are large vessels aligned on the springwood band of each growth ring, ring porous. My planers are at the job but I'll kick around when it gets hot and see if I have some surfaced boards of each. "Mahogany", and what we call mahogany, is a big family and there is tremendous color variation. When Dad got his start with Deck House their trim was "mahogany", everything from blond mahogany, obeche, to honduran, andiroba, luan (one of the shorea's rather than the sweitenia's, the true mahoganys). If you've seen the blond mahogany kitchen tools or some Ikea furniture you've met obeche. The sapwood on the left of your top pic is reminiscent of luan but my guess is this is one of the true mahogany's. I worked for a couple of years in a millwork shop. We were making a run of reproduction secretarys, the original had a one piece top. This was just before the restrictions on export and the owner got a bundle of honduran that was marked FAS16+. Totally clear boards from 16-32" wide, wow what a bundle. This was the reason for its' boom in early furniture, wide clear and stable. It also led to a rash of "pneumonia" type illnesses. When working in confined spaces with many of these woods wear a dust mask or respirator, they can be rough on you. But, I've only planed a stick or two of rosewood for others. The tropicals are certainly not something I've used a whole lot of.
I got the top 4 logs of one of our white pines out of the road and to the mill yesterday afternoon, theres still at least 2 logs worth standing. Off to make lemonade ;D.
I'm going to go with Azobe also known as Ironwood.
Don---thanks for all that. Knowing what it isn't helps point to what it is....I did wear a dust mask---(when I work with purpleheart, the dust can make me real sick for days and though I know this isn't purpleheart, it could be something with a cross sensitivity)
Kalstar---I was unfamiliar with azobe so I looked it up---it's definitely a contender. It gets big, they used to use it in ship building, it's hard and heavy, and it's rot resistant (the stuff I found has been outside for decades) The weathered pictures looked exactly like what I found but to me weathered wood looks pretty much all the same (I thought this was doug fir until I went to move it)
I'm going to continue to have fun trying to figure out what I've got here
Quote from: Don_P on July 01, 2012, 07:05:53 AM
Cherry doesn't have the open pores this wood has. In oaks you would be seeing medullary rays radiating from pith to bark like spokes on a wheel in the end grain. The pores on the end grain are pretty evenly distributed, diffuse porous, where on woods like oak there are large vessels aligned on the springwood band of each growth ring, ring porous.
Thanks for the info--I knew it wasn't oak, but I guess I can't really judge open grain vs. closed from a picture too well yet.. ;)
The only ironwood I'm familiar with is the little stuff we have spread around our property.. The saplings make great replacement garden tool handles, but I've never seen that color (guess that doesn't mean anything though).
'Ironwood' can mean so many different things----just about every region has something they call ironwood. We've got two here---the 'mountain mahogany', and the desert ironwood. Lignum vitae is often called ironwood
Quote from: flyingvan on July 01, 2012, 09:07:29 AM
'Ironwood' can mean so many different things----just about every region has something they call ironwood. We've got two here---the 'mountain mahogany', and the desert ironwood. Lignum vitae is often called ironwood
Our Mountain Mahogany here is different that yours down there as well I would bet. What we call Chaparral here is hardly the Chaparral of the Baja. I never have tried to ID what it really is. It always was just chaparral but it does not look like chaparral in the books. But if I said to a local in the area, "The deer are hanging up there in the chaparral." He would know what I ment and I guess that is what counts.
Lignum vitae is a interesting species and a true 'iron wood.' It is so dense it will not really float. It was and is still used as wooden bearings where needed because of it natural oils and density. Specific gravity of 1.37 and weights in at 77 - 82 lbs./cu.ft. Photos I have seen does look a lot like your wood. However I am still betting on a species of Rosewood or Mahogany.
Your local library may have these books - more info about wood than I can use:
http://www.tauntonstore.com/identifying-wood-understanding-wood-bruce-hoadley-07a713.html
I believe you will be able to ID what it is not, but just from photos you have of finished wood unlikely you can get a positive ID...maybe close if you get the area it was cut in. But even way back when, wood came long distances. Hardness, weight, SG will let you do a matrix that will get you there....if it is all that important.
Here it is all varnished
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5tHTzKVj7Ag/T_Jr3X4MUoI/AAAAAAAABrE/QBK9qmmy_Po/s1600/finishing+mantel.jpg)
Just varnish? Looks great..really a big change with the varnish.
Risking Everything . . .
I would say that lumber . . .
Is a wood product.
/.
Quote from: bayview on July 03, 2012, 10:45:02 AM
Risking Everything . . .
I would say that lumber . . .
Is a wood product.
/.
We and another family were ordering sofa sets by the container load and running them through three local consignment stores...
We were meeting with Ceema Furniture in China. I asked Gary a Chinese apprentice businessman who worked for a larger group we knew really well. Gary was our go between had a good basis of English and was willing to learn. He had no real knowledge of furniture at that time. He was sort of just off the farm from way way up north.
"Gray ask them what the frames are made of."
Long discussion and hand justering and typical Chinese yelling at each other to a high pitch. You would thought it was a high level trade summit. It was as if we were close to closing a deal on thousands of container loads over months rather than maybe two or three now. Discussion went silent.
Gary turned and says, "The frames are wood. Plywood, You know plywood?" He had a look as if he won a major fight.
"Yes thank you Gary. We will explain latter."
I really think Gary thought they were putting one over on us. Just heard last mouth Gary just got married and was settling in down south very well and was in business for himself now. I would like to see him again.
I know it's been guessed already but I'm saying it's Honduras Mahogany. It isn't White or Red Oak IMO.
Red Balau. Sure looks like it to me. It's in the Mahogany family.
I've been kicking around in the barn, need to clean up some samples but here are a couple.
This is a couple of red oak boards, they were relatively fast grown, open grained. The one on the left is flatsawn, the cut is tangent to the growth rings the board has an oil finish that ambers it a bit. The board on the right is unfinished and is quartersawn, directly across the growth rings. They show the ring porous texture of the wood. This wood would be called course textured, it has large visible pores;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/redoakopt.jpg)
This is a zoom on a portion of the above photo. On the right hand board you can see part of a medullary ray running horizontally across the board, it is only a cell or two thick and you can see through it. In the left board you are seeing the ends of many rays as short vertical lines, the vessels are the longer vertical structures. Oaks have the largest, most visible rays and white oaks have the most pronounced rays of the oaks. Quarter to riftsawn(45* angle) white oak was the wood of choice in the craftsman style because of the beautiful, deep, ray flecking... chatoyance. As your eye moves the rays wink at you. We were all taught about the vertical transport mechanisms in trees growing up, rays do the horizontal transport, there are pits, valves, between the horizontal and vertical cells within a tree;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/redoakzoom.jpg)
This is an unfinished black cherry board, hard cherry as opposed to the soft cherry from pin or chokecherry. (I think this is the blackheart I dropped on my engineer friend's fence :-[) The color is deeper and the wood is harder. This board has alot of character and would be a low grade stick, it shows alot of things. The wood is diffuse porous and very fine textured, the pores are not visible to the naked eye and there are not visible vessels lined up along each growth ring as in the oak above. There are some gum streaks near the top of the board and visible in the end grain. I realize I should get a quartersawn piece to show the much finer ray flecking;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/cherryopt.jpg)
When I was a kid Dad made a coffee table in the popular style of the time. The oak was stained a black ebony and then was rubbed with white lead that filled the pores. You probably won't ever see that again d*.
This is a shot of the end grain of a couple of red oak boards. The heart is down on both pieces, the growth rings roughly left to right, the rays roughly vertical, the open pored vessels aligned along the springwood of each growth ring, again showing the ring porous nature of the tree. The lower is tight grained from an old growth, slow grown tree, the other from a faster grown "second growth" tree (really ~ the fourth forest here). People often say that the old growth was superior, well, that depends. Notice how much denser the wood substance itself is in the fast grown tree, they are a good bit stronger because there are fewer vessels per unit area.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/oakop.jpg)
Very cool and informative pics! A collection of these would make an awesome sticky..
Here's an update on the wood---It's most likely left over from the construction of The Californian, the official tall ship of California. (Makes me wonder if New Mexico has an oficial tall ship?) It was built here in San Diego 1983-1984. The only clue to the lumber for The Californian is "The timber came from Belize, among other places". I plan on finishing a sample on one side and taking a tour of The Californian to compare. She's berthed at the San Diego Maritime Museum and open to the public. It could be Araracanga, a hard wood exploited in Belize for ship building; the pictures look the same but geez so does just about every picture I pull up of every other kind.
(http://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/araracanga-148x200.jpg)
This is Araracanga
At the risk of being a smart ..., it looks like mahogany to me. It's a big family when you gather all the relatives. yesterday I posted a pic of "red oak", I can rattle off 9 species in that group, 4 grow on my property. Once you take their clothes off it's all red oak except under a microscope and I wouldn't be any the wiser there. I'd call it mahogany.
I'll blame Andrew for encouraging me, I cleaned up a few more sticks for fun :D
This was called Honduran mahogany notice the dark pores, not that that makes it what I think but that is one clue;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/Hmahogop.jpg)
This is a shot of the end grain, this would be course textured, we can see the pores with our naked eye. It is diffuse porous, the vessels are randomly distributed across the grain.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/Hmahogendop.jpg)
I bought this as Batu, another name for Red Meranti or Red Balau. It is one of the Shoreas... luan. Notice the white in the pores, that is often a clue.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/Balauop.jpg)
This is one of the white oaks, there are 8 common ones. Notice the rays, they are not real spectacular on this piece. If you look at the end grain notice this piece has some tangential grain and some quartersawn grain, relate that to the face of the board where the rays appear is the quartersawn, where the grain is more apparent is the flatsawn section.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/Woakop.jpg)
This is an blow up of the end grain and gives, I believe, a positive ID of Chestnut oak, the only leaky white oak, many vessels are unblocked by tyloses, your whiskey would drain away almost as fast as if you had used a red oak.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/woakendop.jpg)
I saw another red wood so I grabbed it, it has nothing to do with anything other than it's red and I like it, eastern redcedar. As an aside, when you see the name strung together like that "redcedar" it is a clue that this is not a true cedar, it is juniperus virginiana, a juniper. I'd have to go look it up but I believe western redcedar is a thuja.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/wood%20samples/easternredcedarop.jpg)
I'm really enjoying this thread. I've looked up every species that's been suggested, and I'm exploring this historically as well
I'm proud to be partially responsible for these, Don. :) Love 'em..