I started building my cabin 2 months ago and have been working nights after my day job. I started with 2 rows of 5 footings each 12"x48" in dimension. I reinforced the footings with Rebar and used wetset concrete for anchor attachements.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/footings.jpg)
I then doubled up green treated 2x12's for beams that span over each footing for a total length of 24' running parallel to eachother.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/beams.jpg)
Connected the ends and squared/leveled the beams. I attached the floor joists with hurricane ties 16" on center using 2x10's. we went with a little stronger lumber because we were spanning roughly 11'6" between the beams and wanted to be safe than sorry.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/joists.jpg)
We have a 1' cantilever on either end that is now boxed in with the rim joists. I've installed the joist hangers on the ends, have squared everything up and everything is level. this weekend I'll be nailing in all the blocking between the joists and firming everything up.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/rimjoist.jpg)
Im hoping to install the underlayment plywood, insulation and subflooring this weekend.
Does anyone know how I can upload pictures? I would like to show you my progress and see if anyone has any suggestions before I get to far along.
In the Forum News section on the home page, right below this section in the index you will find "Photo Bucket Tips"..it is about the 6th one down on the list.
Looks formidable, but just follow along and you will be able to upload easily.
Quote from: mand0092 on December 13, 2011, 05:16:04 PM
I started building my cabin 2 months ago and have been working nights after my day job. I started with 2 rows of 5 footings each 12"x48" in dimension. I reinforced the footings with Rebar and used wetset concrete for anchor attachements. I then doubled up green treated 2x12's for beams that span over each footing for a total length of 24' running parallel to eachother. Connected the ends and squared/leveled the beams. I attached the floor joists with hurricane ties 16" on center using 2x10's. we went with a little stronger lumber because we were spanning roughly 11'6" between the beams and wanted to be safe than sorry. We have a 1' cantilever on either end that is now boxed in with the rim joists. I've installed the joist hangers on the ends, have squared everything up and everything is level. this weekend I'll be nailing in all the blocking between the joists and firming everything up.
Im hoping to install the underlayment plywood, insulation and subflooring this weekend.
Does anyone know how I can upload pictures? I would like to show you my progress and see if anyone has any suggestions before I get to far along.
w*. Just a word of caution. If it is going to be sometime before you are able to get a roof on and dried in you might consider a waterproof subfloor such as Advantex. Even with that there is a possibility that your insulation will get wet in spots. Without it alot will get wet. If you have the room to get under the crawlspace later that would be a better choice. Not sure what area you are in but winter has a tendency to slow construction down in certain areas.
Alextrent, thank you for your help with the pictures! I have uploaded them and hopefully I did it right. Redoverfarm, thank you for the suggestion. I was thinking the same thing, although it's going to be very difficult getting under the cabin afterwards..I was thinking of putting a vapor barrier under the subflooring and a tarp over the top, covering it from moisture. I like your idea of advantex. I haven't heard of that and will look into it either way.
Thanks guys!
Tips.
The beam joints don't break over posts. It is normally good practice, and required by code.
Extremely close to the ground. No room for later plumbing.
Squirl,
Thank you for your tips. I'm not planning on having plumbing out to the cabin for a few years but you're right it is fairly close to the ground....about 4". If plumbing is added I'll have to make a channel or something. The beams are doubled up..I used 1- 10' and 1-14' on one side and 1-10 and 1-14' on the other side of each beam. then slide them together and connected them with many 4"x1/2 galv carriage bolts. I was told doubling the 2x12's adds significantly more load barring capability and the seem wouldn't need to be centered on the footing as both beams are dirrectly on the footings? Let me know if this is wrong cause I'd rather make changes now (even though it would suck) than later.
thanks
Yes, 2-2x12s is stronger than 1-2x12.
More nails are better than fewer carriage bolts. More surface area and contact between the two boards. It distributes the weight of any load over a broader surface of the wood too, rather than concentrated in a few spots. IIRC, Code for beams and headers is every 16" along each edge.
I don't know who told you that. I would say to fix it. You have two beams cantilevered and jointed in between the same center posts on each side of the building. I would say maybe leave it if they weren't all between the same two posts, but I still wouldn't recommend it.
What are your piers spaced at?
Squirl is right. the joint where two boards are butted together have to be over a pier. it looks like that inner board isn't even butted togther but has a gap between it. You essentially have no support (or very little) between the two piers where the butt is. the 2x12's will eventually start to split at the nails from the stress of trying to bend. a few nails are not strong enough to support a house
Quote from: mand0092 on December 14, 2011, 02:39:32 PM
I was told doubling the 2x12's adds significantly more load barring capability and the seem wouldn't need to be centered on the footing as both beams are dirrectly on the footings?
Sizing and load bearing capacity are dependent upon span and width. The information is out there and free on the web. I did a quick walkthrough of the charts.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10511.0
I did the math, and I would estimate that you have around 5.5 ft span. Some factors that come into play is how many floors (loft?) and ground snow load.
Also, installing insulation now is dependent on type. Any that can retain water such as rock wool, fiberglass, or cellulose is generally not installed before the building is dried in. I have noticed what seams to be a large consensus from many members who did this and regretted it. I'll let other weigh in on that because I have not done it.
Squirl and CjAl are correct on the joints in the built up beams. IRC states the joints have to meet over the support. You wouldn't be the first person to do what you have, but it is not the best idea, even if there is no inspection. It is your call of course.
A beam built to fulfill IRC specs pretty much only uses the nails to hold the pieces together. It does not add much/any real strength. Carriage bolts are not recognized by the IRC as fasteners for beams or other structural purposes. A machine bolt is different; they have threads at only the end and a full diameter shank for most/all of the length where it passes through the members. The carriage bolt with threads full length are weaker, size for size, than a machine bolt. Machine bolts should be used with a large washer under the head and the nut, and not tightened so much as to crush the wood fibers.
There have been some folks who have been lucky with insulation installed in a floor before the structure was dried in. Others have not. Once again, your call.
Regarding the height off the ground. According to the IRC the floor joists should be PT wood when less than 18 inches off the ground; beams PT when less than 12 inches off the ground. Yet again, your call. PT wood must also use the correct nail, correct coating, so the chemicals in the wood don't corrode the nail severely. (Mentioned just in case you were not aware or readers looking for ideas were not aware.)
It looks like you could pull the bolts in the splice area, drop a 2x12x~6' inside that would cover the splice and bear on the piers on each side, then refasten the splice to the inner ply. Not ideal and I wouldn't suggest it to someone who was asking before doing it, but as they say "you are here". I'd count on digging under an end and insulating later. Once you're under there it looks like there is adequate room to move around, got to be more than under my Honda ;D.
Just so everyone is on the same page, this is what the current layout is of the beams. They are all butted tight. In the picture with the gap, that beam hadn't been secured yet.
Inspector said if the the seams are within a foot of the pier, they are fine, but they'll probably get changed either way, which I'm pretty sure will weaken it, but will meet code.
(https://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g283/gfre0005/97c09f5c.jpg)
All of the wood shown in the pictures is pressure treated and proper fasteners were used.
So, if these boards were spliced in (red), code would be met, correct? (Would also seem counter productive IMO, since there would now be 2 seams in close proximity on the center pier).
(https://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g283/gfre0005/d3116951.jpg)
Changed names?
w* LightningBG
Interesting inspector.
I originally thought both were spliced in between the same two posts. I see I was incorrect on that. Code still requires all joints to be over a post.
Yes, the second drawing would be to code. Normally people try to avoid the both of the same splices over the same post. It is still stronger than your current set up.
The first picture the one side of the board is within 1 foot of the post, but the other side is unsupported by 4 ft. The weight of this then relies more on the bearing capacity of the single 2x12.
The further you go out from a point unsupported the greater the mechanical advantage. (leverage)
Hold on, if the inspector was ok with it and if the splice is near the inflection point leave it as is, the inspector is quite right and he approved it.
Quote from: Squirl on December 15, 2011, 04:09:25 PM
Changed names?
w* LightningBG
I'm the one providing the tools for said project (but I'm no professional carpenter, that's for sure)
I believe Don_P is a professional carpenter or engineer. Calculating inflection points is beyond my understanding in building. All I know simple framing and code descriptions.
Just an old carpenter.
I'm attaching a table of bending moment diagrams of uniformly loaded continous beams over varying numbers of piers.
The graph is showing the coefficients to multiply the bending moments by in the various sections of the continuous beam. Basically the diagram is showing the bending stresses in a continuous beam. Notice that the stress in positive and negative directions is greatest at roughly midspan and in the negative direction over the posts.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2vvkscn.jpg)
Now look at the diagram, off the post and slightly inboard of the quarter point of span the bending force (leverage thats stressing the beam in bending) passes through zero bending stress. The inflection point, or the point of contraflexure. If you connect a splice to a continuous section at that point, is it a bad thing? A timberframe splice joint in a long sill or beam is off the post generally around or over the brace. Did the old timers understand that stress wave in the diagram above? ;)
Canadian code does, or did, allow built up beams with splices at roughly the quarter points of span.
There is more down that path, but I just drug us way off track. I think you're fine. To build to prescriptive (easy to show compliance) the codebook calls for splices over posts. It keeps things simple, I don't disagree, but this works within its limits.
Don, thanks for the table. Very useful. We'll see what the inspector says. Mand0092 went out and measured the joints and they are about 18" off the piers. We are sending a message to the inspector and see what he has to say, then we'll do whatever is needed per his request.
The inspector said that 18" from a pier is to much and he will not sign off on it. I will be picking up more lumber tonight (treated) and replacing the beams to meet code (gotta love being a rookie and taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back).
Don't despair! You won't regret the fix. Make your foundation and floor right, everything else depends on it.
BTW, you know that you can also work during daylight hours? Yeah, I didn't know either for quite awhile. I framed my walls up in the dark or in my garage. ;D
So I worked all day Saturday...tried to jack up the beams and found out quickly that the beams wouldn't hold the suspended weight if I was going to be replacing sections. I removed all of the hurricaine ties and anything attaching the joists from the beams. Moved the whole section of joists off in 2 pieces so I could get to 1 beam at a time. needless to say, this is turning out to be a Sh*tShow, but it will be worth it when it's supported correctly and back in shape. Definately frustrating to take so many steps back and spending what would have been the decking money on more lumber for the beams. After I get the beams replaced I'll send some more pics. Could be a while though
Sorry I forgot to warn you before. It is about the crawl space height. I can't tell from the picture, but you need 18" of height between the bottom of the floor joist and the finished grade of the crawl space for ICC code. Your 2x12 should be a good start, but I can't tell if your piers are 6" up. If the inspector said he would not pass the beams, it makes me worry a little more about how much of a stickler he may be. You also need a 2 ft wide access to the crawlspace through the floor or the outside for ICC code. Because the footprint is so small, most people go through the outside.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec008_par003.htm
Squirl,
Thanks for the heads up..now I don't regret taking off the joists, freeing up the beams. There is definately not 6" of clearance under the beams. What would you suggest I do? Should I take a 4x6 post and cut it up? placing a 1' 4x6 piece on the footing? the reason I need to go with a 4x6 is because my wet anchors are 4" in width. if I do that, I could place the beams (after completed) on top of the blocks and that would give me 18".
Would that be a good idea?
Thank you for your help!
A 6"-8" 4x6 should probably work. From what I've read, the shorter may be better, less leverage I believe. It would be just tall enough to pass code and get a good bracket connection. Simpson makes post brackets to connect them to the beam. Also I've seen many use the Simpson galvanized steel T straps. I'm sure there are a few more people that can give good insight.
A hinged piece of PT plywood along one of the short walls should give you access to the crawl space.
The reason I pointed them out was my inspector warned me of both before I started and told me he would fail me if I didn't do it.
He told me he wasn't a fan of pier foundations, but he allowed them as long as everything else conformed to building code and they were skirted like a mobile home foundation. I have seen people skirt them in all sorts of materials that almost all rotted. I personally would skirt anything within 12" of the ground with anything that wasn't pressure treated.
Look on the bright side, in today's world you can ask questions and get feedback before you get to far. Imagine failing an inspection after the cabin is built.
Do you mind if I ask what state this is in? It may help people give more detailed and location specific answers.
We also thought of using a 8 inch cinder block to boost it up. Thought was to put a bolt though the current strongtie, set a 8x8x8 cinder block over it (1/2 cinder block), then fill with concrete and put new ties in. Mand has a call into the inspector to see what he has to say. (I'm sure they really love dealing with rookies).
He is in WI.
You have the Sonotube footings in place. Don't limit yourself to the existing connectors. You can cut them flush, and install new connectors with epoxy. You would have to drill 1" holes into the base 8" deep, clean them with compressed air, and then inject the epoxy and set the new anchor bolt. These are code-approved, but check with your inspector first.
It would be a bit more work, but would allow you to switch to a connector that fits your desired post size.
That would probably work too. There are many ways to get it done.
A note of caution, concrete doesn't stick well to other concrete. A few ways that it is usually done is with mortar, concrete adheasive, or a key way.
We got word from the inspector. He said anything within 12 inches of the ground has to be pressure treated, which the beams and floor joists are, so we're good to go.
After taking a few weeks off from the project I worked all weekend getting back on track. Replaced the beams that we found out wouldn't work and would be a code violation. This wasn't an easy fix since we had everything already anchored in and ready for subflooring.
I decided to have doubled up 2x12 treated beams but have the seems not only on a footing but also not have 2 seems meet on any 1 footing.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/beamexample.jpg)
After the beams were replaced I squared them off and then reset the joists (which were in two large sections weighing a whole lot). I squared off the joists and connected the hurricane ties, the joist hangers and ended up doubling up the center joist in case I wanted to have extra support for a loft beam. I also added a couple supports between the beams so that it would have extra stabalizing support between the two beams.
I added blocking in between the joists (7' in and rotating 2" on either side)
Here is the final picture after fixing everything. Should be ready for floor/walls soon.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/newbeams-joistsattached.jpg)
Probably extra work but will be worth the effort in the long run. I am sure this will not be the only thing that will be changed as it is always the case when building. If you are under code compliance then hopefully those changes will fall under compliance. Looking good.
Good work.
I absolutely hate having to take something apart to redo it but in the end it's usually worth it.
Alan
As Dad would hand me the cat's paw "A good carpenter fixes his mistakes".
With the sawzall my mistakes became alot less painful, probably ought to put it under "favorite tools" :)
Hey guys,
I have an opportunity to pick up some rough cut 1x8x12 white oak planks. I was toying with using them as indoor siding to give my place a rustic feel.
If I have subflooring down, would it work to use the 1x8 planks for a rustic flooring also? the planks would not be t&g. It would just be nailed into the subflooring/joists
They will probably open up with humidity/drying. Good place for dirt to hide when their wide. ;D
I just purchased the floor insulation but wanted to get some suggestions before I purchased the underside flooring.
My floor joists are about 12-15" off the ground. both the beams and joists are treated. Im insulating the floor and then putting OSB subflooring on top. what should I use for the bottom flooring under the insulation/vapor barrier? The ends are cantilevered 1' on the sides (maybe do treated plywood under that?). could I get by with osb painted under the building since it won't see any elements? It's not the end of the world if I can't but I was just trying to figure it out and save some money ($60 vs $250)..
Thanks
I would probably opt for seam taped rigid foam.
Air/vapor barrier.
Less stud heat loss.
Can't rot.
Cheaper than plywood.
Worked the last 4 days installing the underlayment, vapor barrier, insulation and subflooring. We now have a platform to work from! I've scheduled materials and a team to install walls, trusses, sheathing roof and windows In 3 weeks!!!!!
Below is the underlayment I installed this past weekend. It's exterior Plywood that I painted with an exterior paint. I didn't have much room (18" from earth to underlayment) so it made install pretty difficult.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/Installingunderlayment.jpg)
The next photo is of the top side looking down through the floor Joists. you can see that I added a vapor barrier above the underlayment to reduce any moisture coming from the earth underneath.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/Underlayment-vaporbarrier.jpg)
The next photo shows the progress on the insulation. I used 10" thick R30 insulation that was 15" wide (to fit my 16 on center joists and my 2x10 joists). it fit in perfectly!
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/Insulation.jpg)
After 4 days of crawling in the dirt and mud, I was able to finish the underlayment, the vapor barrier, the insulation and the subfloor top. I now have a platform to work from and start the walls!!! I covered the subfloor with a large tarp as I didn't want any rain to affect the OSB. Materials are being delivered for the 2x6 studs, Sheathing, trusses and roof sheathing in 2 weeks.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/Tarpoversubflooring.jpg)
Should be a warm floor. Best of luck with the tarp and any rain/snow.
I've buttoned up the floor pretty good. I'm hoping the moisture won't affect it. Here's to hoping!
Well, after a very long weekend we made a lot of progress on the cabin. Got all the walls up, windows framed and half the cabin wrapped with sheething. After work tonight i'll get most of the sheething finished on the walls and then the rest of the week i'll focus on getting the roof sheething on. Just wanted to post some pics of the progress.
Here are the stairs I put in to get up into the woods to the cabin.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/stairwelltocabin.jpg)
Here are the materials after they were dropped off
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/cabinmaterials.jpg)
Here is the first wall that went up...ps...2x6x12' walls 24' in length with window/door headers are pretty heaving to lift
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/1stwallup.jpg)
Picture of a tree branch coming into the roof at 15' tall
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/Treebranchcominginsideroof-1.jpg)
Bracing the trusses
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/addingthesupportsforthetrusses.jpg)
More pics of the scissor trusses
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/finishingupthetrusses.jpg)
Finished for the day after the walls, trusses and sheething were on.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/cabin1.jpg)
Looks like you're getting a lot done - looking good!
worked all week on the building...If I had to do it all over, i probably wouldn't do 12' walls and a 12/12 pitch....its a pain to work on and taller than any building in my area I think.
I was able to get the building completely sheathed, roof sheathed and tarpapered and the first row of Tyvec on (before I ran out).
I covered the window openings so that it wouldn't allow water in. We had some pretty hard storms last night and it kept all the water out.
Next weekend i'll work on finishing up the house wrap and installing the windows.
My inspector came out on Friday and signed off on all the framing so thats behind us.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/tyvec1strow.jpg)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/roofsheathed-1.jpg)
Worked on the cabin a little more this weekend. We were able to finish up the house wrap and get it all dried in. This week we'll be working on getting the metal roof on and hopefully the windows/doors installed.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/housewrap.jpg)
It has been raining on and off for the majority of the week so I worked on setting all of the loft Joists. I used 2x10's and spanned them about 13'2" to a jack stud attached to a wall stud and then nailed it all in. This should allow me to span the distance without having to have a center support for the loft as 2x10's can that far for joists.
Im thinking about throwing in a line of blocking just to firm up the loft joists too.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/loftjoists.jpg)
Here is a better picture of the Loft after the joists were all done.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/beamsfinishedloft.jpg)
Does anyone know if I should put 1/2" osb or 3/4" osb for subflooring on t
he loft? I don't want to go overboard, but definately don't want to have a soft floor either...the 2x10 joists are 16 on center.
You'll probably want to go with the 3/4 osb, but try and find the tongue and groove stuff made for subfloors. They will lock into together and make for a more ridgid flooring system.
Don't forget to add glue to the joists before you put the floor down to reduce squeaks!
Quote from: John_M on April 24, 2012, 08:49:36 AM
You'll probably want to go with the 3/4 osb, but try and find the tongue and groove stuff made for subfloors. They will lock into together and make for a more ridgid flooring system.
Don't forget to add glue to the joists before you put the floor down to reduce squeaks!
2nd the 3/4" T&G. In addition SCREW don't nail it down.
Thanks guys! I will pick up the 3/4" subflooring tomorrow and throw it up there. I'll make sure to glue/screw it down too. I appreciate the help!
Since the underpart of the loft will be visible, do you know if they make a product thats t&g and looks good from underneath? im thinking something that looks like the t&g pine you'd throw on the walls but used for flooring? almost like a plank type I could use directly on the joists?
They do make a 2"x6" T&G for floors in pine, which would work and looks nice.
Quote from: mand0092 on April 24, 2012, 01:08:24 PM
Since the underpart of the loft will be visible, do you know if they make a product thats t&g and looks good from underneath? im thinking something that looks like the t&g pine you'd throw on the walls but used for flooring? almost like a plank type I could use directly on the joists?
That is what I put in my loft. The bottom side is the ceiling and the top is the loft floor. It is 2X6 pine T&G V groove. The V groove is only visible on the ceiling side.
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_1644-1.jpg)
If I can find them I have some pictures of the top/loft floor.
OK I found them.
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_2846-1.jpg)
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_2849-1.jpg)
That is exactly what im looking for! can you buy it at a home depot/lowes/menards? or do you have to order it from an actual lumber yard?
Thanks!
What kind of stain did you put on it? looks great!
This is not the best picture I have...but I bought the T&G flooring from an Amish Mill near my cabin. It is real beefy....I think 1 3/4 inches thick!
I'm not sure if you can get this stuff at Home Depot or Lowes??
(https://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/kubes14001/DSC02760.jpg)
At 16" on center lumber (as apposed to plywood) floor sheathing needs to be 5/8 thick and is not required to be tongue and groove. Thicker and tongue and groove is better.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_5_sec003.htm
Quote from: mand0092 on April 25, 2012, 08:33:24 AM
That is exactly what im looking for! can you buy it at a home depot/lowes/menards? or do you have to order it from an actual lumber yard?
Thanks!
What kind of stain did you put on it? looks great!
You can probably get it at Lowes or Home Depot but it will probably have to be ordered. A regular lumber yard will be your best bet.
As for the stain. The ceiling side is a pickled finish or whitewash and the Floor(loft) is a walnut stain. A word to the wise is that the V-groove is milled to the best side being the "V groove" side. The flat side will not draw tightly together as well and their might be some minor gaps.
I sent you a PM on your flooring.
You can get it at Menards and Home Depot. Menards is almost always cheaper and it goes on sale at Menards every couple of weeks. Never pay more than .55 or .60 lf. I got mine at .49 lf. It comes in 1x6 and 1x8, I believe.
For 2X T&G that you would use on your floor you can look to pay twice the price of 1X T&G. I paid $.90 for mine but that was several years ago.
Working on installing the Windows this weekend and doors. I've priced out siding/trim....had no idea it was going to be that pricey!
Thinking about just sticking the the windows/doors/metal roof this month and hopefully getting to the siding/trim towards the end of the summer. It's all wrapped in Typar right now and has only been up for 3 weeks. It should be fine for a few more months right?
I was able to get father on the cabin this month and installed the windows and sliding door a couple weeks ago. Here is a picture of the outside (still need to frame in the front door).
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/windows1.jpg)
Here is a Picture of the windows from the inside.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/insidewindows.jpg)
And here is a picture of the new steel roof that was finished just yesterday. Apparently it's almost impossible to install a steel roof on a 12/12 pitch.... It was absolutely horrible installing the sheething so I had some brave friends who are in construction install the metal roofing for me.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/MetalRoof.jpg)
My progress has come to a stand still.....Im waiting on the siding,soffits and facia....not sure if I should go vinyl or hardie board. I was able to find some decently thick .046 vinyl for about $70/sq....I can't explain in words how over budget I am already and I don't even have the exterior finished much less started anything in the interior....
I think next time I think about starting a project anywhere close to this one, i'll multiply the estimate by 2 just in case.
Not a bad place to take a break. Looks like it should be just fine for a while.
You got a lot done in these months since you started (working at night). Once the outside is done, the inside will be more relaxing to do and you can do it a bit more on your timeframe. Looks great so far.
Looks like everything is moving along pretty fast. Excellent job. Wise decision on fixing those beams early on.
Thank you everyone for the kind responses. I am pleased to say I have ordered the siding (hardie board), trim, soffits and facea and will hopefully have it installed by the end of July. With that finished I will be completely done with the exterior and will be moving inside to finish it off. I will post pictures when it progresses.
Just had the Siding, Soffits, Facia and trim delivered. My inspector is telling me though that since I ran my exterior sheething horizontal vs verticle i need to put blocking on the seams between the studs...has anyone heard of this before? he wants me to toe nail it onto the studs as well as nail it from the outside through the blocking....we're talking a considerable amount of time and cutting so I wasn't sure if this was code or if he was just being a complete douche.
Thanks
Yes, I did it in mine. It took about 1.5 hours per wall for the 30 ft walls. It is not required under most building codes. It is usually only required in high wind and seismic activity areas. If unblocked and you can't find plywood that extends from the top plate to the rim joist, sheathing is supposed to be run horizontally in running bond. There are provisions in the code against running some sheathing vertically.
There are some footnotes that specifically state if sheathing is run perpendicular to framing members (horizontal for roofing) that blocking is not required.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_6_sec002_par006.htm
It may be worth it to ask the code provision he is citing too. Sometimes with a little pushback and knowledge, requirements become recommendations.
I did it in my building, because it didn't take long (4-5 hours), was cheap ($30), and the shear strength difference dramatic. From memory, the AWC high wind and seismic activity guide, unblocked sheathing can have 125 lbs per ln ft shear strength, where blocked and 2" nailing patterns can get 1800 lbs per ln ft shear strength.
If you want to read the numbers for yourself you can find it here:
http://www.awc.org/pdf/2008WindSeismic.pdf
As you can see from p.9, if he tries to tell you that running unblocked sheathing parallel (vertically) to the studs is stronger, he is full of $#!+. In almost every instance running it horizontally is three times as strong.
...I can't explain in words how over budget I am already and I don't even have the exterior finished much less started anything in the interior....
i am enjoying reading about your progress. if i might ask, what is your budget?
My budget when I started this project was $5,000. But then I started adding and adding and adding and adding. it was basically just going to be a large shed with a couple windows. Now it's a full fledge cabin with a lot of upgrades. Im hoping to have the covered porch installed, the electrical run and the insulation and interior completed for under 15k now. Which will be very tight.
I got an absolutely fantastic deal on the steel roof, the roofers, the hardi board and the siders so that was nice (but still expensive and came out to about my original budget just for that).
Im not running any plumbing right now, and will probably hold off on finishing the inside for at least a couple months. My ambition and drive far exceeded the balance of my checking account :)
Here are a few pics of the new front door and the siding/trim/soffits/facea being installed.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/486600_4195655445687_4983410_n.jpg)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/photo1.jpg)
QuoteIf you want to read the numbers for yourself you can find it here:
http://www.awc.org/pdf/2008WindSeismic.pdf
As you can see from p.9, if he tries to tell you that running unblocked sheathing parallel (vertically) to the studs is stronger, he is full of $#!+. In almost every instance running it horizontally is three times as strong.
Stepping backwards for a minute. It depends. That table is for out of plane loading, typically the framing is designed for <30 psf in that direction. Yes it is important and those high numbers for the sheathing look good, but, the strength in plane is the greatest concern in a brace or shear wall. The reason usually given for running vertically is fewer seams are unblocked or fewer blocked seams are needed, or if the sheets are long enough, no blocking is needed to get good shear strength. Unblocked vertically is stronger in shear than unblocked horizontal. I block all seams and not enjoying blocking, I run vertically. Highest ultimate strength is horizontal with all seams blocked.
Let's hope he reads this before he sees the inspector again.
Am i correct..out of plane is against the wall and in plane is parallel to it...to prevent racking? If that is correct, out of plane is taken care of by the sheering on the perpendicular wall?
Yes, out of plane is the wind blowing against the face of the house bowing the studs inward. You can look it up in the tables in chapter 3 what the wind loads are per square foot in your area... and on different parts of the house.
Anyway, the wall facing the wind is pretty much like a floor. Prescriptively the stud span is usually under 10', the top and bottom are braced by a floor and ceiling diaphragm. The floor and ceiling collect the load from the windward wall and hand it to the stiff places, the braced walls that are perpendicular to the windward wall, in line with the wind. They are taking the load in plane, down the length of the wall. The sheets of plywood well attached to the studs to prevent buckling act as a great racking restraint. The nails attaching ply to studs are in shear, much stronger than withdrawal, the 30 psf trying to suck the ply out of plane off the leeward side. If the wind quarters the structure the bending and bracing action is shared by both sets of walls. The floor delivers these pushing, horizontal loads to the foundation walls and then the ground.
But practically speaking a chain breaks at the weakest link. When we focus on one thing and forget another the building is only as strong as what we let slide in the weakest place.
Here is the N side of the building completed with Soffits and Facea. The whole exterior should be completed by the end of the week (weather depending).
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/sidedone.jpg)
Siding, Soffits and Facea are completed!!!!! so now all I need to do is paint the primed hardi and the outside is finished. You'll notice that i've ran ledger boards on the bottom and top of the side wall. Next summer im planning on building a covered porch that runs the entire length of the structure. I just wanted to make sure I installed the ledger boards when doing the siding so im not backtracking too much. I guess now it's onto the interior (which might be a fall/winter project).
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/finishedsiding.jpg)
I've been painting the cabin for the past few days and building temporary entry stairs and a ladder for the loft. I was going to use T&G 2x6's for the loft flooring but the prices around here are rediculous. Im thinking about just throwing down some 3/4" subflooring t/g and just throwing up some pine t/g underneath the exposed bottom to give it a decent look.
My goal for tonight (after work) is to get the subflooring installed in the loft. the rest of the week (weather permitting) finish the exterior painting.
Quote from: mand0092 on August 07, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
I've been painting the cabin for the past few days and building temporary entry stairs and a ladder for the loft. I was going to use T&G 2x6's for the loft flooring but the prices around here are rediculous. Im thinking about just throwing down some 3/4" subflooring t/g and just throwing up some pine t/g underneath the exposed bottom to give it a decent look.
My goal for tonight (after work) is to get the subflooring installed in the loft. the rest of the week (weather permitting) finish the exterior painting.
I guess I am in a region that is rich in timber and T&G is in abundance but is the cost of 3/4" sub floor and 3/4" T&G relatively less than just 2X T&G. ???
Red Rover,
Great point! I have to think about the total cost after finishing. I looked at Menards website and found some 2x6 T&G for about $160 more than the OSB. however to finish that OSB off it would cost a lot more than $160. When I called the store, I was quoted 30% more for 2x6 T&G and then when I went into the store this morning, they quoted me double what I found online. I brought a print out of the price I found online...Not sure how I can get 3 different prices, but im glad I did my research and got it relatively cheap.
I've finished painting the exterior (pretty much) and have just a few spots to touch up. I've also added temporary front entry stairs for now. i'll be adding a front porch and deck next spring but wanted to be able to get into the structure without having to jump up.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/photo1-2.jpg)
I purchased 3/4" OSB for the loft flooring but soon returned it after I realized that i'd rather just buy 2x6 T&G planking for the loft floor and finish that off. Thank you to Redoverfarm for helping me with all of my questions on the flooring! I would definitely do the plank flooring again as it gives it a great "rustic" finished look. I will say that the t&G pine does tend to warp and have some nice bows in the wood. A good crowbar, decking screws and a couple beers are a must when installing. After starting with 2 1/2" finishing nails I soon realized they wouldn't be anywhere near strong enought to hold this beefy flooring. I had to very slowly insert 3" decking screws through the tongue and into the beams underneath...this seemed to hold the flooring great. Below you'll see the loft I installed last week. Note to self...make sure to order 20% more material because some of the boards had knots and splits that couldn't be used.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/loft.jpg)
Well, I haven't been on here for a while. I've been waiting for decent boards to get special ordered for the remainder of the loft flooring. I had to return and re-order 5 different times (started with 30 boards...returned 11 crappy ones..then reordered the 11 and got 6 crappy ones then reordered 6 and got only 4 boards....of which 3 were complete crap...so I reordered them again and FINALLY received 4 boards I could finish with).
So that was my holdup for the past 8 weeks.. Below is a picture of underneath the loft.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/underloft_zpse9776ef9.jpg)
I've also cleaned up the work area and took a picture of the inside of the cabin as it sits right now. Next step is to insulate and run electrical (not sure if I'll be able to get electrical in this fall or not...hopefully.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/insidecabin_zps2cc65450.jpg)
I've got a question for my electrical run. Im lookiong at going with 6-3 UF wiring from my house panel out to a subpanel in the cabin. The run from the house to the cabin is 100' and my electrical panel in the house is on the other side (50' away) making the total length needed at least 150'. I cannot find any 6-3 uf cable between 125' and 250' lengths. the going rate for this wiring is about 2.50 a foot, so I don't want to have to buy a 250' roll if I don't have too. Can I run regular 6-3 throughout my house run (50') and then through a junction box, connect the 6-3UF off of that and make the run outside for the extra 100'? I know it's better to have a straight run without splicing, but I wasn't sure if this could be done.....Any thoughts?
Yes you can splice it, just make sure that the junction box is inside the house. I would use split bolts (stronger connection than wire nuts) wrapped with rubber tape and then 33+ (at least 2 layers of each). They also make a connector that is insulated. You put your wires in it, tighten down the set screws and insert the connected plugs over the set screws. A little more pricey, but easier to use. I believe you can get them at Lowe's/Home Depot/Menards but if not you can get them at any electrical supply house.
I've bought splicing blocks (with the set screws) at Lowe's, complete with a heat shrink sleeve that has a hot melt adhesive on the inside. makes a nice connection.
Well, my first year of building this cabin has come to an end. I am very happy with the progress and excited to see the finished shell up. Next April/May as soon as the ground thaws we will be running the electrical to the building as well as installing the insulation (already purchased). My goal is to purchase the materials for the electrical, the chimney stove pipe and any other finishing materials from now until April so I have it all set to go.
This project although frustrating at times has been one of the best experiences of my life. Knowing you built something with friends and family using your own hands that will stand for a long time and have great times inside of it is great. I highly suggest anyone that is thinking about starting their cabin to stop thinking and just start it. You will not regret it.
You're doing a great job. Looking forward to seeing your progress next year.
Chadd
"I think next time I think about starting a project anywhere close to this one, i'll multiply the estimate by 2 just in case."
That has been my experience...I call it the "don't know what I don't know factor". :)
Very late spring....
I was hoping to get started on the electrical in April, but the snow is still around and the ground is still frozen. I haven't seen a March like this in a long time. I've hoarded menards gift cards and saved enough to purchase all of the electrical materials i "think" i'll need. First step will be to trench from the house to the cabin and then install the electrical subpanel. I'm trying to figure out if I should go with a 100amp or 60amp or what amp service out there.
After electrical and insulation are installed, then i'll work on installing the wood stove and walls. Getting the itch to start working it again!
I would put a 100 amp panel with 20 spaces so you have room to expand. But you talked about using 6-3 cable, in which case the biggest breaker you can put in your main breaker panel to feed cabin sub-panel is 60 amps. If you don't have heavy loads like an electric range, electric water heater, electric heat or central A/C 60 amps should be plenty. But if you put in a 100 amp panel, you can always put bigger wire between the house and cabin and upgrade to 100A. Along those lines, I suggest you put the wire in PVC conduit or black plastic pipe big enough to pull a bigger wire in later. You can also buy a 500' spool of THHN cheaper than 150' feet of 6-3UF and run 3 conductors a conduit.
I have been off this project for a long time, but starting to ramp up again. I've invested in some "needed" tools for the job. Below is my new to me toy for digging the trench to the cabin for electrical. After digging through large roots 2' deep, I needed something else.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/backhoe.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/backhoe.jpg.html)
Below is the pictures of the finished trench. It splits off so I can run my main feed to the electrical in the main structure and then have a on/off 3 way switch to the garage so I can turn the lights off at both locations (garage and cabin).
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/trench1.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/trench1.jpg.html)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/trench2.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/trench2.jpg.html)
My next move is to run all of the electrical in heavy conduit and connect the electrical to the cabin breaker and the main building main breaker. This has now taken me almost 2 years to get to this point..but hey....I am still doing what I can.
Need some help,
Im installing the wood stove this weekend and I will be running the piping through the metal roof. Does anyone know what I should purchase for a transition outside for a correct installation for a metal roof? also, im thinking about building a Hearth that would be 12" high (off the ground) and sheathed in a durrarock material with stone on top and on the side walls. Any body else done this before and if so could you make suggestions as too the process?
thanks everyone!
Quote from: mand0092 on September 25, 2013, 09:35:35 AM
Need some help,
Im installing the wood stove this weekend and I will be running the piping through the metal roof. Does anyone know what I should purchase for a transition outside for a correct installation for a metal roof? also, im thinking about building a Hearth that would be 12" high (off the ground) and sheathed in a durrarock material with stone on top and on the side walls. Any body else done this before and if so could you make suggestions as too the process?
thanks everyone!
They make a special tranistion boot for heat and metal roof. Check around at a stove shop or online. Here is one company for some information to digest.
http://www.pipebootexpress.com/?gclid=CIaC_qDs5rkCFZSd4AodPGoAnQ
I would just make the frame as standard framing steps. Depending on the size you might want to put an extra wall within directly under where the stove would be setting. Cover with the durarock using their type screws (flush mount kind). You never mentioned whether it is going to be a stand a lone or against a wall. If the later keep the manufacurers clearences in mind.
When I built my hearth I used two pieces of durarock with sheetmetal sandwiched between them. Don't remember where I found the information but that is what was recomended. I then tiled over it
Thanks everyone, appreciate the help!
I was able to get the stove pipe installed through the ceiling and up on the roof this past weekend. The chimney out of the roof extends over 6' tall so I added the support brackets just in case. I used the stainless double wall ubber expensive pipe through the ceiling and on the exterior and the black double wall extendable black pipe for the inside. i'll have about 18' of pipe from the stove to the top of the exterior piping. I wonder if there will be much heat at all after traveling up 18'?
I roughed in the electrical boxes and ran the wire in the corner, I then insulated and put the poly vapor barrier up behind the durarock. I ran durarock up the walls 12' high and 5' wide on each side wall as well as the hearth base.
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/fireplace.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/fireplace.jpg.html)
I succefully finished my trench and after working on it for a very long time getting it down 24" in the worst root infested area I've seen, the conduit is burried and the main breaker is connected!!! YES!!!! below are some pictures of the nasty trench.
I now have a 60amp service run to the cabin. This should be sufficient enough since I will not be putting in plumbing and the heat source will be from the wood stove. Now it's time to wire the whole cabin, Insulate it and finish her off. :)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/trench3.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/trench3.jpg.html)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/photo.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/photo.jpg.html)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/trench4.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/trench4.jpg.html)
(https://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa350/mand0092/conduit.jpg) (https://s1193.photobucket.com/user/mand0092/media/conduit.jpg.html)
Plugged in the first light to an outlet today and was pretty excited to have light not coming from a very long extension cord. I will be finishing the wood stove install, running the interior electrical and trying to get the insulation up before christmas. My goal was to have Christmas in the cabin this year and open gifts under a Christmas tree and a fire in the stove but it's getting late and the weekends are running out. It will take 3 days to get it ready for sheetrock im thinking...So maybe over Christmas Break.
Congrats on getting the lights on. After all most all of the worlds winter holidays are a festival of lights. (However, heat is nice too. :D)