Porch posts and Loft Rails

Started by OlJarhead, February 02, 2010, 12:07:35 PM

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OlJarhead

Thanks -- Bailey's rocks :)

I might have to try their tenon cutter only becuase I have an old 1/2" router that just sits around doing nothing and I need an excuse to use it ;)

Actually, for $150 it's a LOT cheaper too.  Would be faster I suspect.

Now I just have to figure out when the best time (and alternate times) is to cut down the pines I'll use for the loft rail so I can get started on that.

Don't have too many BIG trees so don't think I'll take down enough to make my porch with but I might consider thinning out the trees a bit around that cabin and use them for lumber perhaps.

Pine Cone

#26
The nice thing about the router-based tenon cutter is that you can cut multiple sized tenons with the one tool.  The basic setup cuts 5/8", 1", 1 1/2" and 2" tenons which pretty much covers the range of sizes you are likely to want.  If you go for the drill-based cutters one cutter can cost over $100.

As for when to cut your trees, times a-wasting!

From a wood quality, minimal moisture content = fewer cracks and shorter dry time late winter is the best time to cut down trees.

From an ease of bark removal late spring/early summer is the best time to cut.  Also the best time for maximum logging damage for the same reason.  Not a huge problem with pine, but not so great for hemlock and true firs. 

From a bark beetle control standpoint late summer is the best time to cut, but if you debark the logs quickly this is not an issue.

If there isn't too much snow this year I'd be cutting them ASAP, which in your case is probably March or April, still long before growth starts at that elevation.  If you can get the bark off before the end of April or early May you will minimize beetle and blue stain problems and maximize this years drying season. 

Sometimes people will leave the limbs on for a month or three to dry the stem quicker.  Think of it like your Christmas tree.  The leaves/needles will continue to transpire after the tree is cut. The company I work for used to manage property in Oregon south of Bend. Leaving limbs on after falling was a pretty common practice there for biomass/pulp logs since dry logs weigh less and you can put more on a truck by waiting for them to dry out some.  They would cut the trees, let them dry for most of the summer, and then chip them on site.

All depends on how many trees and who's going to do the logging.  



OlJarhead

Quote from: Pine Cone on February 09, 2010, 11:53:31 AM
The nice thing about the router-based tenon cutter is that you can cut multiple sized tenons with the one tool.  The basic setup cuts 5/8", 1", 1 1/2" and 2" tenons which pretty much covers the range of sizes you are likely to want.  If you go for the drill-based cutters one cutter can cost over $100.

As for when to cut your trees, times a-wasting!

From a wood quality, minimal moisture content = fewer cracks and shorter dry time late winter is the best time to cut down trees.

From an ease of bark removal late spring/early summer is the best time to cut.  Also the best time for maximum logging damage for the same reason.  Not a huge problem with pine, but not so great for hemlock and true firs. 

From a bark beetle control standpoint late summer is the best time to cut, but if you debark the logs quickly this is not an issue.

If there isn't too much snow this year I'd be cutting them ASAP, which in your case is probably March or April, still long before growth starts at that elevation.  If you can get the bark off before the end of April or early May you will minimize beetle and blue stain problems and maximize this years drying season. 

Sometimes people will leave the limbs on for a month or three to dry the stem quicker.  Think of it like your Christmas tree.  The leaves/needles will continue to transpire after the tree is cut. The company I work for used to manage property in Oregon south of Bend. Leaving limbs on after falling was a pretty common practice there for biomass/pulp logs since dry logs weigh less and you can put more on a truck by waiting for them to dry out some.  They would cut the trees, let them dry for most of the summer, and then chip them on site.

All depends on how many trees and who's going to do the logging.  



Wow!  Thanks!  That means I start soon :)  I'll be up there for the weekend on the 20th of Feb and then for a week in March :D

If I can have them dried and cut by September (is that long enough dry time?) then by hunting season I should be able to have the loft rails installed :D

cecilia

We were thinking of timber rails up the stairs at the Duckpond, but regulations got in the way a bit.

We have to space rails much closer than these and the building inspector comes with a rubber ball that can't be pushed between two railings - or it must be rectified.

The thinking is that a child could either get its head stuck between the railings, or could squeeze through and fall to the lower floor.

We went for the metal (bullrush and dragonfly) ones in the end and fortunately they all passed the ball test!
cecilia
www.duckpond-design.com.au/theduckpond
Life's too short to stuff mushrooms!

OlJarhead

Quote from: cecilia on February 09, 2010, 03:46:49 PM
We were thinking of timber rails up the stairs at the Duckpond, but regulations got in the way a bit.

We have to space rails much closer than these and the building inspector comes with a rubber ball that can't be pushed between two railings - or it must be rectified.

The thinking is that a child could either get its head stuck between the railings, or could squeeze through and fall to the lower floor.

We went for the metal (bullrush and dragonfly) ones in the end and fortunately they all passed the ball test!
cecilia
www.duckpond-design.com.au/theduckpond

I don't support "inspectors" or the idea of them ;)  But hey, if you have to have them then I guess the only answer is to make it the way they want it (and remove later :P )


Pine Cone

To pass the rubber-ball test in an interesting fashion you just need to do a bit more work.

These designs started with a look at the rustic railings in the film "On Golden Pond"

An initial design...


The first prototype (very thin railings)


A more refined prototype, still needs a few more pieces to pass the rubber-ball test... You can easily guess where they need to go.


I did these last winter while waiting for cabin-building season to start again.  One thing I did learn since then is that treating them with sodium borate will make them last longer since it helps prevent decay and insect attack.  I'm using this stuff these days...  You paint a couple of coats on and then apply your normal finish coat, in my case Defy Fortified Epoxy in Natural Pine.
http://www.loghomestore.com/borates.shtml#Penetreat

OlJarhead

Very cool.

I'd heard that there should be some kind of treatment to give raw wood before sealing.

frazoo

I just found this thread, I see I am a couple weeks late coming in to the party, but have a question regarding this issue.  I, too, plan to use pine logs/poles for my porches.  I am curious how you would deal with the pine sap if you cut your pine trees after the sap rises in the spring?  Seems like I remember these things will bleed forever and a day if cut during warm weather.  Is there a way to stop that, or are you trading off one benefit for a different one (ease of peeling your logs)?  Also, I remember reading many years ago that the time of month you cut a tree down will affect the length of time it takes the tree to decay/rot.  Anyone else ever heard of this?

thanks, frazoo
...use a bigger hammer

Redoverfarm

If you have ever dealth with some of the old time signs they prove very true today from everything about building fence in the dark of the moon to planting potato's .  I remember a comment about that but just don't recall.  Will have to get my books out again and look.  But I do know that to lessen the sapwood in freshly cut trees you should do it before the sap rises which is early spring to fall. 


OlJarhead

Interesting stuff -- I cut 20 or so poles last weekend and can't wait to get back and cut some more!  Also have to get a bark stripper (not sure what it's called) and other tools for this task.

In the mean time I have to fix the jeep though.....

Redoverfarm

I generally use a "draw knife" on smaller stuff and even a mattock will work on larger size.


Or if you wanted to make the investment you can choose.


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_100+1466+771089

OlJarhead

Quote from: Redoverfarm on February 26, 2010, 01:12:17 PM
I generally use a "draw knife" on smaller stuff and even a mattock will work on larger size.


Or if you wanted to make the investment you can choose.


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_100+1466+771089

Draw Knife!  That was it -- our local Ranch and Home has them, but they are made in China and I HATE buying made in China crap.

Any good American made ones around anymore?

Redoverfarm

#37
OlJarhead might check at some antique shops or flea markets.  They usually have some older ones that the steel is much better quality.  Even if they are a little worn they will sharpen much easier and keep an edge longer.  Just be careful sharpening them.  Don't ask me how I know.

Here is some Made in the USA

http://www.lumberjacktools.com/

OlJarhead

Quote from: Redoverfarm on February 26, 2010, 02:35:26 PM
OlJarhead might check at some antique shops or flea markets.  They usually have some older ones that the steel is much better quality.  Even if they are a little worn they will sharpen much easier and keep an edge longer.  Just be careful sharpening them.  Don't ask me how I know.

Here is some Made in the USA

http://www.lumberjacktools.com/

Oh sure -- send me back there!  I have that site book marked TWICE for their tenon cutters....didn't think to see if they made the draw knives in the US though..thanks!


Redoverfarm


OlJarhead

http://barrtools.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BST&Product_Code=DKCB&Category_Code=DK

Oh man now you are talking!  That will probably outlast 10 of those crappy Chinese made ones!!!

THANKS!  I might even order today!

Pine Cone

Here is the one I used.  Made in France of all places.  Great handles and good steel.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44502&cat=1,130,43332

For larger logs I used a tool from my local Home Depot.  I think it is made for removing roofing. 

poppy

I feel kind of sorry for you guys.  Draw knives are "a dime a dozen" around here at auctions.  ;)

Had I known there was a market for them elsewhere, I would have bought some more and sold them to you guys at my cost.

Do we have a "tools wanted" thread somewhere?

Redoverfarm

Quote from: poppy on February 27, 2010, 12:17:37 PM
I feel kind of sorry for you guys.  Draw knives are "a dime a dozen" around here at auctions.  ;)

Had I known there was a market for them elsewhere, I would have bought some more and sold them to you guys at my cost.

Do we have a "tools wanted" thread somewhere?

Glad you thought of that Poppy.  I am a sucker for antique tools.  Not to display but to use.  As OlJarhead stated the China knives are not worth taking home.  I would rather buy one that has had a previous life that I can sharpen and will still out live me. 

OlJarhead

#44
Quote from: Redoverfarm on February 27, 2010, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: poppy on February 27, 2010, 12:17:37 PM
I feel kind of sorry for you guys.  Draw knives are "a dime a dozen" around here at auctions.  ;)

Had I known there was a market for them elsewhere, I would have bought some more and sold them to you guys at my cost.

Do we have a "tools wanted" thread somewhere?

Glad you thought of that Poppy.  I am a sucker for antique tools.  Not to display but to use.  As OlJarhead stated the China knives are not worth taking home.  I would rather buy one that has had a previous life that I can sharpen and will still out live me.  

I agree!

Now for the good news!  I found a Tennessee made (correction from earlier when I was thinking Vermont)... Draw Knife at Ranch and Home for $36.99 -- Made in the US of A!

Decided I'd give that a try becuase the price was significantly less then the rather awesome looking ones on the net -- I'd love one of those I posted about above and know NOTHING about them!  It just has that hand made look that well, makes me want it.

Anyway, I bought the $40 Made in USA model at R&H and will give it a try soon :)

But a Tools for Sale or Wanted forum would be good!  I've love a really good Swede Saw actually.  Not one of those crappy Chinese ones I've seen lately that would fall apart in a hurry, but something that might actually cut a tree or twelve :)


Beavers

Quote from: poppy on February 27, 2010, 12:17:37 PM
Do we have a "tools wanted" thread somewhere?

We need one!

Seriously with the great finds you make at auctions I would love to buy some tools from you.  I make it to a few auctions, but nothing with the selection and quality of the stuff I have seen you post.

Drawknives, adzs, broad axes, chisels, and bits would be on my want to have list. 

Oh yeah...I've really got a thing for Disston saws.  I've got a couple of old ones, and they are just awesome to use.   :)

Kat

Another peeling idea, and this is definitely not for everyone, but we cut our pine logs and then haul them to the goat pasture. 4 goats can clean up one of our tree is 3-4 days. It's the best job you will EVER see on peeling! Seriously. :)

OlJarhead

Quote from: Kat on March 05, 2010, 03:35:00 PM
Another peeling idea, and this is definitely not for everyone, but we cut our pine logs and then haul them to the goat pasture. 4 goats can clean up one of our tree is 3-4 days. It's the best job you will EVER see on peeling! Seriously. :)

I'll bring 60 poles by this afternoon! :D

Actually, I had no problems using my new Draw Knife and am ready to get up there and get peeling!  I like the work :)

But, I'll need a work bench (gotta build that ;) ) and probably should wait a couple months at least for them to dry some - though I'm not sure about that.

One thing I noticed what our Noble Fir from Christmas was still VERY pitchy...so I'm wondering what you do about that?  Or does it dry up eventually?