Mike Oehler - original hippie survivalist builder

[MtnmanMikeM]

Extremely good comments everyone.   Billy Bob, it is too bad most people will probably always think of hippies as dirty, deadbeats who practiced free love and smoked dope.   Which too many did do.    Especially too bad few understand the philosophy which is to live in harmony with nature, etc.   That is also an Indian (native American) philosophy.

I try to mix philosophies that fit me best....  I also like alternative medicine, alternative building etc. etc....  I long ago gave up the middle class (boring) lifestyle....  No fancy house, wife, 2.4 kids and all that for me...  

Also John, you say idealism died in the 1980's?   Probably very true.   But hopefully there are still a few such as Mike Oehler and many in this group who are still idealistic.   Not sure about Generation X, Y and so on though...

[Amanda_931]

Not sure where, but recently I read a theory that the far right/neocons had trashed the 60's.  And managed to ignore all the people who became social workers, craftspeople, etc.

Even if at times they did live without running water (and thought that pachouli was a deodorant--it was sold that way) and smoked dope instead of drinking whiskey.

[John Raabe]

Interesting Amanda:

It was the neocon movement that did in the Peace & Love of the 1970's, but it wasn't a planned conspiracy - it was the intrusion of "reality". The "Hippy ideology" was doomed by human nature. It's a hard lesson that I and millions of other idealists of the time have had to learn.

Lesson One: Violence will trump Peace.
Lesson Two: Control and Power will trump Egalitarianism.

From lesson one it follows that there can be no peace, no matter how temporary, without someone having a monopoly on violence. We would like to think that the holder of that monopoly is fair and balanced - and that is why we have developed the "rule of law". In most cases, most people trust the police most of the time. It's not perfect, but it generally works and we more or less "all get along".

Lacking rule of law and a strong police monopoly on violence, thugs and warlords will setup their own monopoly and people will choose that over chaos and random uncontrolled violence. So peace, no matter how many people want it, can always be destroyed by the next group of thugs who are willing to exploit a new opportunity for violence. IE: Lets fly a plane full of fuel into a tall building!

From lesson two has come the whole neocon, neoreligious and neorighteous movement whereby the foundation of American openness and democracy has been circumvented by the control of anger through manipulation of fear.

I think I will stop there or we will have to move this entire thread over to the Rant section!  

PS - I still do wish, "Love is all you need" was true.

[Amanda_931]

You could be right about that.

But there may still be (about to retire!) plenty of people who spent their lives trying to live up to their ideals.  I know quite a few, might be one myself, although for hippie and female, I was a little old--and also remember when hippie was a bad word but we didn't have a name for ourselves.

(John might one of them as well!)

[Sassy]

John Raabe wrote:  Lesson One: Violence will trump Peace.  
Lesson Two: Control and Power will trump Egalitarianism.

I started reading The Devil's Advocate by Taylor Caldwell, yesterday... it was published in 1952.  They had the FBHS "Federal Bureau of Home Security" along with constantly trumped up threats of terrorism from other nations.  Canada, the United States & Mexico were called "The Americas" & there were eavesdropping devices all over the place to listen to conversations.  The military was the most powerful organization & controlled everything.  The Constitution, Bill of Rights & Declaration of Independence had been done away with.  

The basis for the breakdown & takeover by the military & the "elite" was the new definition of the "common man" who was stirred up to expect that the gov't should provide everything for them.  In the process the "common man" lost his initiative in being indendent & self-sufficient & no longer took pride in doing a job well.  As more & more people started depending on the gov't for their subsistance, they, one-by-one, gave up  their freedoms until they lived in a totalitarian system.  Only  the "elite" top bureaucrats, military officers, & the farmers who owned huge farms & were paid (subsidies) directly by the gov't to grow or not grow, stockpile or distribute to those nations we wanted to control, owned or were provided wonderful homes, private schools for their children, vehicles, food etc... while the "common man" worked 7 days a week, was provided barely enough to eat, lived in broken down housing,  & was in constant fear of saying the wrong thing as it might be construed as treasonous speech ( they would be wisked away to a prison somewhere), & their children went to "federal" schools to be brainwashed.  Those in power constantly stirred up fear & terror by all the propaganda on TV, movies & the news media that yet another country was trying to attack, so we had to attack 1st...  

There were a few who remembered or had been taught by parents or grandparents of the freedoms America once had, who were part of an underground organization called the "Minutemen" & were  infiltrating the various gov't organizations in hopes of causing another revolution to gain back their freedoms.  But in the process, the power that those Minutement who were successful, obtained, was dangerous in it's own right as there was always the temptation to forget the original reason for the revolution & get caught up in a power trip just like those the Minutemen were rebelling against.  

Anyway, I'm not quite finished with the book, but uncanny how much the book describes America today.  

Does this fit into the "Mike Oehler - original hippie" thread?   :-/  

[Amanda_931]

I've just finished listening to Jonathan Alter' The Defining Moment.  It might be better read, but....

15-30 percent of the country was unemployed, back in the days when women mostly didn't work  so they weren't counted among the unemployed, for the most part.  Alter comments that people were too depressed to rebel in late l932-early '33.  People have to have some hope in order to try to make life different.  That might be a different way of looking at the situatio Taylor Caldwell's describing in the novel.  

[MtnmanMikeM]

I think Mike O would like and approve of what you just posted Sassy.     If someone would be able to email Mike Oehler and tell him about this good group and even this thread maybe he would read it and Maybe even post a little here?  
   I never heard of that book you just told us about Sassy.   Maybe I will read it someday.   So many books so little time.     I have liked Ayn Rand's  "Atlas Shrugged"  especially the last half.   Should find and read it again soon.  

Also T minus 12 days and counting until I leave for my mtn. place which I consider paradise compared to the purgatory of stinkin cities...  

[MtnmanMikeM]

As one last post to be dedicated to good ol Mike Oehler and all Old Hippies where ever they might be.   I would like to post the lyrics to the country song "Old Hippie"        I do not like much of country or a lot of music but sometimes there are good ones such as this >  

         Old Hippie

Bellamy Brothers

He turned thirty-five last Sunday
In his hair he found some gray
But he still ain't changed his lifestyle
He likes it better the old way
So he grows a little garden in the back yard by the fence
He's consuming what he's growing nowadays in self defense
He get's out there in the twilight zone
Sometimes when it just don't make no sense

He gets off on country music
Cause disco left him cold
He's got young friends into new wave
But he's just too friggin' old
And he dreams at night of Woodstock and the day John Lennon died
How the music made him happy and the silence made him cry
Yeah he thinks of John sometimes
And he has to wonder why

He's an old hippie and he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie...his new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust

He was sure back in the sixties that everyone was hip
Then they sent him off to Vietnam on his senior trip
And they forced him to become a man while he was still a boy
And in each wave of tragedy he waited for the joy
Now this world may change around him
But he just can't change no more

He's an old hippie and he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie...his new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust

Well he stays away a lot now from the parties and the clubs
And he's thinking while he's joggin' 'round
Sure is glad he quit the hard drugs
Cause him and his kind get more endangered everyday
And pretty soon the species will just up and fade away
Like the smoke from that torpedo...just up and fade away

He's an old hippie and he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie...his new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust.

[glenn kangiser]

How fitting---enjoy your trip Mike.

[bil2054]

Thanks for the song, Mike.
Enjoy your return to the mountain, Pilgrim.

[MtnmanMikeM]

Thanks for the good comments guys.   Maybe I will post here again next winter for I will most probably come back down from my mtn place even though I always hate to leave even when there is three feet of snow when I leave in Nov.

This is a better and friendlier group than about any other that I have found  so I probably Shall return!

[jonseyhay]

You take care of yourself on that mountain, Mike. Don't forget to bring us back some photos of the wildlife and cabin. We'll all be waiting for your return.  

[glenn-k]

A handy tool for survival and a nice little home project.  Seems there is always someone who knows something we don't.

Fire Piston - a primitive invention

[bil2054]

An interesting find Glenn.  I hadn't thought of one of those for years.  I think you will find a 'How to" article in the classic "Wood Craft and Camping" by Sears (?).  That was my favorite book as a youngster, and been looking for a replacement hardcover for years, (lost in the Great Fire of '86  [smiley=sad.gif])  That would be a good book for Mike to have up on his mountain, if he doesn't already have it.
Anyway, Sears details several ways of making fire including rubbing two sticks together, which if I recall he does not give a high score to.  Try it and you'll see why. [smiley=wink.gif]  The piston and tube method got top billing, since what could be easier if you don't have matches or lighter?
I was impressed enough that I made one for my final in "Shop Techniques" lab.  It even worked!

[glenn-k]

Cool, Billy Bob - someone who's done it.  8-)  It's great being on a forum with so many geniuses who have no ego problems.

I was thinking about making one of these and it says 3/4" or 1" diameter cylinder - piston is 1/2"  or less.  I think I would go for the smaller one since it would be easier to achieve ignition temperature if the area was smaller.  I assume we are trying to achieve a 20 to 1 or more compression ratio - not exactly sure what is necessary- but smaller would be easier - not so large an area for the compression to work against you.

Guess I should re-study the drawings and see if I can figure out the ratio- could be a lot more if the space is small.

The traditional is shown as 1/2 dia x 4" to 6" long.  The Rowlands is shown as 1/4" dia. x 4 3/4" working length of piston 3/16" space at the end to keep from smashing your fire.



The above image showing how this works is from this site:

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/osullivan/index.htm

[glenn-k]

I couldn't stand it, Billy Bob.  I tried to work but this thing wouldn't let me.   :-/

I had to go at least try to make one.



I used 6" of 1/2" hard copper tube, a piece of 1/2 inch hardwood dowel for the piston appx 6" long - cut to proper length after plug is installed in bottom of cylinder.  The push handle and stop are 1" hardwood dowel cut at about 1 1/2" and one inch respectively.

I chucked the piston in the drill press and used my Dremel to cut 2 grooves for the o-rings.  Had a set in my truck.  The dowel fit the tube a bit loose but I figure the o-rings will take care of that.  I put about a 1/2" long wood plug into the copper tube covered with 5 minute epoxy then epoxied it into a hole drilled in the 1" outer plug dowel.  Hopefully no leaks.  The piston and o-rings will be coated with mink oil shoe grease if I can find it.  I drilled a small tinder hole in the end of the piston 1/4" dia. 1/8" deep.  I fit the piston into a 1/32 undersized drilled hole in the handle after making it stop about 3/16" before the bottom per directions above.

Will it work---?  I don't know, but it looks cool.  

[jwv]

I started reading The Devil's Advocate by Taylor Caldwell, yesterday... it was published in 1952.  They had the FBHS "Federal Bureau of Home Security" along with constantly trumped up threats of terrorism from other nations.  Canada, the United States & Mexico were called "The Americas" & there were eavesdropping devices all over the place to listen to conversations.  The military was the most powerful organization & controlled everything.  The Constitution, Bill of Rights & Declaration of Independence had been done away with.

 

Sassy, sounds like a great book. I'll have to check that out.

This thread is very interesting.  Our sons (16 and 13) like to tease us about being "hippies" even tho we were born a few years too late to actually be a part of the "real" hippies.  Maybe it's just a sensability that we carry.  There are worse things...

And we did buy Rick a Jimi Hendrix Experience CD for Father's Day.  He has been known to lament "I used to have that Jimi Hendrix 8-track... Wonder what happened to it?" Now he can listen anytime (in the truck of course)

Judy

Happy Father's Day to all you Dads!

[bartholomew]

Will it work---?  I don't know, but it looks cool.  

Don't keep us in suspense forever.... does it work??

[glenn kangiser]

I need to seal it better - it gets warm but no fire yet.  then I ran out of time to play with it.  

[Dberry]

I couldn't stand it, Billy Bob.  I tried to work but this thing wouldn't let me.   :-/

I used 6" of 1/2" hard copper tube, a piece of 1/2 inch hardwood dowel for the piston appx 6" long - cut to proper length after plug is installed in bottom of cylinder.  The push handle and stop are 1" hardwood dowel cut at about 1 1/2" and one inch respectively.

I chucked the piston in the drill press and used my Dremel to cut 2 grooves for the o-rings.  Had a set in my truck.  The dowel fit the tube a bit loose but I figure the o-rings will take care of that.  I put about a 1/2" long wood plug into the copper tube covered with 5 minute epoxy then epoxied it into a hole drilled in the 1" outer plug dowel.  Hopefully no leaks.  The piston and o-rings will be coated with mink oil shoe grease if I can find it.  I drilled a small tinder hole in the end of the piston 1/4" dia. 1/8" deep.  I fit the piston into a 1/32 undersized drilled hole in the handle after making it stop about 3/16" before the bottom per directions above.

I grinned as I read just how many modern tools and materials you used to make your fire-starter.  How far we've come and how little man has changed over the past 50,000 years.  Ug the caveman probably made the same happy sounds you did after discovering he could use a pointed stick to dig grubs out of the ground.  Did you grunt?  Visions of Tim the tool man come to mind.

[glenn kangiser]

I grunt and drag my hairy knuckles when I walk.  At least it was all run by totally off grid power.  If I hadn't used power tools it'd probably be working by now, although I am lacking the dead dog to get dog grease from, which some groups insist is necessary to make it work. :-/

[John Raabe]

Hey, your a good craftsman Glenn.... for a knuckle dragger... and you're into a worthy experiment. I want to know if this thing is just an urban legend (about romantic times we didn't live in) or real. All web links for more information and examples have been taken down.

There should be a little movie of this.

The theory is right, I just don't know enough about the physics to know if you can generate the pressures needed to make fire with such machines (and mere human strength).

[Billy Bob]

Looked like a good effort to me, Glenn.  If it's getting warm, well, you must be getting warm. [smiley=wink.gif]
The one I made in physics lab was of brass, and usually took three or four compressions to make the tinder smolder.  I wondered why, since it was made to close tolerances on a modern lathe, it underperformed the reported results of the more primitive hand made units.  I think, though I never made the experiment, ( I was a ba-a-a-d physics student), that the brass acted as a heat sink, and you had to overcome that energy deficit first.  You may be encountering something similar with the copper; we KNOW you made it good!

[glenn kangiser]

I saw the video - it did work --

I agree about the heat sink, Billy Bob.  I was thinking the same thing - I was just trying to see what I could do in an hour or so with whatever junk I could find.  I have the knowledge all wrapped up in the meat between my ears now.

I could have done much better with machine tools (lathe) and am losing some compression but I think it will work if I get time to fool with it some more.  The wood ones are probably better -- better insulation than the brass or copper.

I guess I should go back to the cave style. :-/