Howdy folks!
I now need to start looking at the practical aspects of how I'm going to live in my on site trailer before getting a septic put in (which probably won't happen til spring since I'm paying for everything in cash).
I have seen the plans for composting style toilets where you cover everything with sawdust after you're done. Assuming the sawdust does indeed work and keep the smell down, I'd consider it. I did run across this today...
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000G2R05K/ref=s9_asin_title_2/102-3722241-2284168?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=07M1WK69NTWX5604BPFR&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240801&pf_rd_i=507846
It appears to have a 5 gallon capacity with a 3.2 freshwater tank. Being a hick originally where we used a low tech outhouse for many years, I'm not up on the state of the art in portable toilets.
Assuming there's a 5 gallon holding capacity and a 3.2 freshwater tank, that means it's only good for one flush? Normally I would look over the manual which sometimes you can get at Amazon or the manufacturer but alas, none was to be found.
What puzzled me was another portable by the same manufacturer here...
http://www.amazon.com/Century-6205-2-8-Gallon-Portable-Toilet/dp/B000G2SXTW/ref=pd_sbs_sg_4/102-3722241-2284168
The description on this one shows a 3.2-gallon freshwater holding tank and 2.8-gallon waste-water holding tank. Since the freshwater holding tank is bigger than the waste water holding tank I am assuming that there's some drainage from the unit as opposed to everything running into one tank that gets emptied?
Does anyone have experience with these?
Julian
I'm a long time user of portable "porta-potti" type of toilets (since about 1980 or so). As you've noticed there's an upper tank for the fresh (flushing) water and a bottom tank to hold the waste. Sometimes the bottom is larger than the top, sometimes not. They're good for many more than just a single flush. You only use as much water as necessary to get rid of the evidence. As a bonus the plastic that is used is quite "slippery" and things slide down quite nicely. I've found the design of the seat/bowl to be a masterpiece of engineering in that the hole the deposit is made into is perfectly placed beneath the doner position. :)
If you can use an alternate disposal method for urine two people can make one 2.8 gal bottom receptacle last a week, maybe more.
Hint: I like the Porta-Potti brand because they have a thumb actuated vent valve that makes dumping the holding tank easier, less gurgling and splashing. Maybe some other brands include that, I haven't looked. The use of single ply Scott brand toilet tissue (marked safe for septic) helps as it breaks down much easier in water than the deluxe multi layer super soft brands.
We have two model 155's and simply move the top from one to the other when needed. 2.6 gal upper and 4.3 gal bottom tanks. With careful conservation one top tank full usually services two bottom tank loads. That's a lot of crap. :) The models with the larger holding tank weigh more when handling to empty and they sit at a more comfortable height. I also have ours sitting on top of a 3 1/2 inch platform (a couple of scrap 4x4 cut offs).
One last thing, there are two basic types of chemical one with alcohol and formaldehyde, the other formaldehyde free. There's some controversy over the use of the formaldehyde formula. I'll just say that the formaldehyde formula keeps the odors down much better than the f-free. You decide.
Hope everything comes out okay.
We have one for the horse trailer. Not my favorite piece of equipment. Filling it is easy -- emptying it is the hard part. Oh-- it works fine -- I just don't want to do it. Hey -- I already dealt with it once --- don't want to do it twice.
We finally built an out house and just kept a bag of lime in there to cover our treasures with and keep the vermin - rats and mice, etc from lunching out. There was no smell using lime. It just firms up the whole mass into a giant fossil for future archaeologists to discover when sifting through the ruins of past civilizations. :)
It may or may not be permitted in your area. IMHO it is no more problem or health risk than any septic system if built and cared for properly. Studies have shown that nothing dangerous makes it past a few feet from the hole.
I'm waiting on the guy with the back hoe to dig the pit for the outhouse, then we'll switch and the porta potti's will be reserved the the dark and stormy night routine and use in the back country with the Jeep. Not everywhere, just places that see a lot of human use. :)
Glenn, right about only wanting to handle it once. :-/
go passive solar http://www.sunnyjohn.com/toiletpapers2.htm sunlight kills pathogens and dries out waste for incineration. Also who wants to set over dark hole?
Well I reckon that it's cheap enough that I may go ahead and spring for a portable. Nice thing about being a single guy on 10 acres of land is that solving the issue of number 1s is fairly simple. ;D
I can always look forward to some great answers here and I appreciate everyone's input.
Julian
The whole world is a bathroom, Julian. :)
here is a link to the sawdust toilets. I know people with the expensive composting toilets and they are always having problems. This method looks easy and seems like it will work. The more simple the plan the less problems I espect to have. http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/sawdustoilet.html
Good advice, tanya, and welcome to the forum. :)
I've looked at the Sunny John idea and it does seem like it would have a problem in really cold weather with low usage. There's no way it's going to keep warm enough to continue the process with only occasional use. I suppose it would wait until spring and startup again when thigs warm up.
Still nothing wrong with a well built outhouse in a remote area.
And I too think the small composting toilets require more maintenance than a lot of folks will want to deal with. As for sawdust that's fine if you have a ready source of coarse chain saw / saw mill type of sawdust. Many folks do not.
I like the lime, myself, and a note about that is to have a place to wash it off so you don't get it in your eyes. We just used a plastic cup cut from an old plastic beverage container. Lime is only about $6 a bag and one bag will last many months. Just a light sprinkling like powdered sugar donuts will do the trick. Completely cover everything.
Members who have been in the police force seem to excel at this technique. ;D
I plan to get the sawdust from the hardware store, they also have really fine wood shavings for pets that I think would work too and I am going to definately use lime with the sawdust becaues I am pretty sure that is what keeps the bugs down in the old outhouse. I don't know how the thing will work inthe cold weather but my lot is in an area that gets lots of sun all year around even in WA and I think if I make the bins black it will work. I sure hope so. I don't really have a back up plan.
Bugs don't like lime and it will work in any weather. It will probably stop the composting process -- it's more for making fossils and keeping bugs - rats etc out.
Julian, why not plant some citrus and put those No !'s to good use?
Hi Tanya- as Glenn points out, ( Glenn, I rember reading about those lime-use techniques favoured amongst your law-enforcement people- a composting toilet marketed as using that method could be called the Jimmy Hoffa, maybe..or would that one require cement?) lime alters the ph balance to the extent that decomposition stops. I have been using the aerobic bacteria method on our pit toilets here over the last twenty years very successfully, with the big advantage of not needing water to flush, etc. The method is very simple and very effective- just a pit, as deep as you like, withan air source in the base- I use a piece of 3"" poly pipe. The air flow forces aeoribic bacteriat to work, speeding up the break-down of wastes.
Hey Pete, that's along the lines I was thinking. How far down does the inlet pipe go? I assume there's an exit stack as well?
Tanya, please let us know how your sawduster works. I've yet to sonverse with someone who has done one. All I know is what I have read and I hear only success stories. My oversized skeptic bone doesn't allow those to carry as much weight as some would like. But that may be just me. :-/
Hey Pete, our law enforcement people didn't always have to use the lime technique.
There was an old fellow called gramps way back in the boonies. He raised pigs --- meanest hungriest pigs this side of the Pecos.
Anyway -- troublemakers were just dropped off in the country by gramps place. When they went up to gramps place for help, they just seemed to disappear and the Sheriff didn't have anymore trouble. Gramps seldom had to go to buy pig feed.... or so the story goes.
Now gramps is gone -- I suppose they are back to the lime --- or maybe the "tangled in the anchor chain" off the boat trick. Guy has to watch his step out on the lake fishing. :-/
No- Gramps moved to Canada, eh? Remember that case in BC I think it was about six months back?
Buy more than four pork chops and get a free set of earrings? :o
Down here the cops in the warmer parts use the local friendly croc farmer.
The inlet pipe is about a foot above the base, and the 25% slope- and a rule of males watering the citrus trees- ensures it doesn't fill up with liquid...I've still had to build a new one about every seven years, so a large family would find heavy use a problem.
Probably a protection scheme, eh? What a guy.
Do you have a favorite catalogue to read while in there? Sears quit theirs I think. It was the old standard.
Ode To The Little Brown Shack Outback (http://realmgantra.ballardsbytes.com/mus/ode.wav)
Well the planner in me decided I do need a back up plan after this little conversation so I now have several. The first one is in winter if I use enough sawdust I can build a big bonfire and burn the waste each week, the second one is to use the porta potty and dump it at the RV dump and the third is to rent one of those event portables and problem solved. I feel much better now.
QuoteI feel much better now.
Yep, thats the whole idea....but sawdust, if you are in a termite-prone area, attracts them like flies to..err..
QuoteI've looked at the Sunny John idea and it does seem like it would have a problem in really cold weather with low usage. There's no way it's going to keep warm enough to continue the process with only occasional use. I suppose it would wait until spring and startup again when thigs warm up.
You are right to be concerned about 'composting' toilets not performing below a set temperature. Moldering vaults, however, perform seasonally very well. The trick is to stabilize an environment that molds effectively enough to truly time shift energy needs into the time when it is available abundantly. Overly loaded use in the cold periods for moldering vaults is often more a concern, especially in wet, low solar regions.
Besides,
QuoteStill nothing wrong with a well built outhouse in a remote area.
And here we are talking solid vault design with massive elements in place to swing the solar gain. There is nothing like the warmest, most pleasant and solar fresh bit of floor space on a cold winter morning - when peace of body and mind are important. Down with cold toilet seats!
Good thoughts and welcome to the forum, mrhobbit. Are you and earth dweller too?
Quote'Are you and earth dweller too?'
born and bread. lower on the hog than most though. Close to the Earth would be more a description than 'dweller'.
Just wondering -- We have been called Hobbits but we're a bit to big for that -- We're more of the troglodyte type here in the Underground Command Center. :)
Sassy and I have been playing around in mrhobbit's website, and while we have a non-advertising policy we also like to share cool websites with lots of good information.
He has Sunny John and tons of other info there. http://www.sunnyjohn.com/
Quote... and tons of other info there. http://www.sunnyjohn.com/
I thought pandering was frowned upon... and blatant pandering, well, much more than frowned upon.
Nonetheless, a hearty thanks for doing what comes naturally to you ...
The sunny john looks like it would work quite well but is the vault sealed? I am nervous about county regualtions. I can see where a leaky vault could upset some permit types and maybe even result in a big fine. Can you tell us how that vault is set up so it doesn't leak?
Thanks for taking it into consideration, mrhobbit. It is officially, but we all alert our members to information that is useful or of interest to them. When there is a site such as yours that provides free information so people can better themselves, but still needs to make a bit of a living too, I have no problem with it. (and now John has added the Google professional panderers to help support the site- so what can I say). :)
I do get rid of useless panderers or ones that try to take advantage of our members. and sometimes let questionable ones hang around a bit if they don't make a nuisance of themselves. and may have some usefulness to our members.
I do sell myself for money nearly everyday -- don't we all? :-/
QuoteThe sunny john looks like it would work quite well but is the vault sealed? I am nervous about county regualtions. I can see where a leaky vault could upset some permit types and maybe even result in a big fine. Can you tell us how that vault is set up so it doesn't leak?
tanya,
The Sunnyjohn design has been approved at various sites by regional officials. They do prefer to take a look to confirm the design meets the Private Sewage Guidelines that they have adopted. The original design was designed and then built to conform to the those guidelines that applied to a 'private privy vault'. Whether folks adhere to the design is always a wildcard in any homebuilt project, but generally speaking, if folks stick to the monolithic pour prescribed in the plans and use '6 sack [aka barn mix]' for the concrete, they will have a water proof vault that guarantees control of all ground water contamination concerns. The first prototype was approved by the Colorado Health Department as the primary toilet facility for the adjoining Class A dairy creamery and milking parlor. Your results may vary...
glenn,
Thanks for the easy hand. Something tells me that this forum is the place to be for now... and the rest of my baggage comes along for the ride. But I do travel very, very light. [smiley=cool.gif]
Is there any conversation going on about ultra low cost heating and cooling scenarios for greenhouses and season extenders?
Please spend all the time you can here, mrhobbit.
We have not talked a lot about the low cost heating and cooling for greenhouses, but that is of interest here and Jonesy down under has been experimenting with cool tubes. I'm sure it could be adapted to houses also.
I browsed it a little on your site (http://www.sunnyjohn.com/) but haven't had a lot of time to study it well. It looked very interesting though. It could go into the general topics or off topics where we have the garden thread - or maybe it even fits in the garden thread (http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144892741).
We really appreciate you and all your baggage in this forum. :)
John allows me the freedom to bring in any topics of interest to home owners or our members by any stretch of the imagination in trade for me helping him with the forum so he can take care of his plans support. He hops on over here any time he has a few extra minutes with his wisdom and comments.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Then there is always Glenn's Passive Aggressive Solar Heating (http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1168303001/17#17)
Have you checked out my Underground Complex? (http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1107141843) It is pretty easy to heat in the winter and doesn't require much more than a fan for cooling in the summer.
[size=12]
What makes a house a home for a hobbit?[/size]
Let's start here:
and see what fills in -
all the way to:
Basically, it all begins with edibles. That amplifies presence, and depending on the ... errr 'dependencies', that cycle is completed to the detriment or edification of those who attract the edibles into their worlds. And when it's all said and done, all there will be is more of what it started out with - - - -
And only question that remains is who can build a home that withstands builder's occupancy [and many more lives too!] and graciously returns to the Earth 'from whence it came' when it's time has come.
Mr Hobbit thank you for the response about the tank sealing information. I have been looking into this for some time and worry endlessly about how to contain the shit. Now I know. It seems so simple why aren't more people everywhere using this method. Thin of the fresh water we would save. OK now...Back to vacation!!!
You are making me think, mrhobbit. I think the underground cabin fits most of those ideas as well as the way we live in it.
I have said they can leave me alone while I'm alive and push it in over me when I'm gone. :)
Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1185210631]This Thread[/link]
Moved the Strawjet info to it's own topic. What a machine. :)