Land questions in over my head

Started by 1201, October 12, 2018, 12:18:14 PM

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1201

Hi guys I have this dream and plan to build a super efficient small house in North Texas.

I found a 1 acre lot that's gorgeous. It's heavily treed and has about 10 huge trees and many smaller ones and it's facing south so it's ideal for passive solar design.
It is abt 100k cheaper than comparable properties.

I've never bought land or self built so I'm coming to you all for wisdom since ive learned a lot from this forum.

Here are the red flags

1. It's been listed since 2017.
2. It has a drainage creek that runs west to east across the whole property cutting it on two and means you need a bridge to get trucks to the back part of the property to build
3.its not in a great area but the area is not bad either
4. The creek has standing water so mosquitos abound
5. The ground is fairly uneven
6. Half the property is in the flood plain.

My friend have said don't buy because it will end up costing me a lot more than 100k more in the end. They think I should take the simple route and buy a different plot.

Thing is. I've looked at a lot of land and because this one is in the flood plain it's more rich/dense and beautiful than any of the other ones.

I can buy it for 70k and my goal is to be able to put  a bridge and 1500 SQ ft hall and parlour house on it for 200k total

Let's say the bridge will need to be about 30 ft in length.

Has anyone been in this situation before? And what would you guys do?

THANK YOU!

Dave Sparks

70K for one acre? Seems really high not considering the negatives.
"we go where the power lines don't"


MountainDon

Wow! And I thought $19K an acre was high (where we are in NM).

I see the words "flood plain" and wonder how deep? Then I think of recent news pictures.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Redoverfarm

To me I think the negative out weighs the positive aspects.  Not knowing the exact price of land in that general area it does seem a little on the steep side.  With the improvement that will need to be made what will you end up with.  That is money that could be placed into a structure. 

Dave Sparks

I had a client who bought land for so much money I thought, there is something really wrong here. He was in the end what is called in the sailing world an "armchair sailor"  They never really finish the goal but rather enjoy just thinking about it. Wasted a bunch of my time but I guess since he paid for it what can I complain about. Well, I can because I can :)

I am not saying this to the OP but even in crazy California land in rural areas is not that expensive.
"we go where the power lines don't"


1201

Guys THANKS for the responses. I didn't know if I would get any feed back so I appreciate it.

I have until end of the month to cancel or close but I think I am less willing to go through with it now.

My thought process is that building a house for the first time, having not built anything more than a shed before, will be challenging enough that I don't need to add to the level of difficulty by buying challenging land.

I have a budget of up to 150k for the land, which almost guarantees I won't be buying land anytime soon within driving 45 minutes or less of my wife's job with a good school zone. This land is in Tarrant county Texas. If you look within a 5 mile radius you'll see 1 acre plots in colleyville, or Southlake with a $300k-500k asking price.

What's crazy is that if I go 150 miles to East Texas for the 300k I can get almost 150 acres!!!

Thankyou again guys. I have become obsessive about efficient home design. We were going to buy a house but I couldn't bring myself to buy anything as I think they are all poorly built.here is what is see with existing homes that I'm not a fan of(hot humid climate)

-Shallow overhangs that don't protect from rain
-shallow overhangs that also don't shade windows and walls from sun
-brick siding that acts as a thermal mass and heat absorber . Roofs in our area get to 150 degrees in the sun and walls get to 140 degrees
- dark colored walls and roofs
-cut up roofs
-cut up wall designs that lead to inefficiency
-homes are too large!
-i personally think houses look better without a car hole aka attached garage.
-not enough insulation
-terrible prefab chimneys that no one uses.
Etc etc

MushCreek

A few random observations-

Land costs what it costs. Here in SC, we bought 7+ acres for $70K. In some parts of the country, that would be cheap. In others, expensive.

That land sounds like a challenge. I've read of places where you have to provide access for fire trucks, meaning a substantial bridge across the creek. I can't begin to guess what that would cost.

We wanted a creek, but couldn't find suitable land. After all of the crazy storms and subsequent flooding, I'm glad we chose a hill top instead! With all of the 'Storms of the century' we've been having lately, water scares me.

I'm with you on houses these days. We built a small (1400 sq ft), energy efficient house. ICF construction, R-50 in the attic, 30" overhangs, high quality windows, energy heel trusses, reflective metal roof, simple gable roof, etc. Our HVAC consists of two small mini-splits, covering a range of temperatures from 0 in the winter to over 100 in the summer.

Whatever land you end up with, design the house to fit the land. We have sloping ground, so a walk-out basement was the path of least resistance. We have a fully insulated (ICF) additional 1400 sq ft to use as needed. No HVAC is needed down there in our climate, and without HVAC, we're not taxed on it as living space. I spent a lot of time studying the sun angles to orient the house just so, and laid the house out to take advantage of the changing seasons. It makes a big difference in energy bills and overall comfort.
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.

1201

Quote from: MushCreek on October 13, 2018, 05:20:45 AM
A few random observations-

Land costs what it costs. Here in SC, we bought 7+ acres for $70K. In some parts of the country, that would be cheap. In others, expensive.

That land sounds like a challenge. I've read of places where you have to provide access for fire trucks, meaning a substantial bridge across the creek. I can't begin to guess what that would cost.

We wanted a creek, but couldn't find suitable land. After all of the crazy storms and subsequent flooding, I'm glad we chose a hill top instead! With all of the 'Storms of the century' we've been having lately, water scares me.

I'm with you on houses these days. We built a small (1400 sq ft), energy efficient house. ICF construction, R-50 in the attic, 30" overhangs, high quality windows, energy heel trusses, reflective metal roof, simple gable roof, etc. Our HVAC consists of two small mini-splits, covering a range of temperatures from 0 in the winter to over 100 in the summer.

Whatever land you end up with, design the house to fit the land. We have sloping ground, so a walk-out basement was the path of least resistance. We have a fully insulated (ICF) additional 1400 sq ft to use as needed. No HVAC is needed down there in our climate, and without HVAC, we're not taxed on it as living space. I spent a lot of time studying the sun angles to orient the house just so, and laid the house out to take advantage of the changing seasons. It makes a big difference in energy bills and overall comfort.

Wow. You home is my idea of a perfect house!!! I want a rectangle with a gable roof, generous overhang, facing south to take advantage of solar gain in winter but block it out in summer, and minisplits in every room for when we are empty nesters and only need to heat or cool a couple of spaces.

I just put a deposit on a white standing seam metal roof that has an Sri of 93!!

I limewashed my roof and walls (white) and that cut my energy consumption by at least 30% and I'm being conservative with that number because I don't like to exaggerate.

I've looked into icf construction but the costs scare me. I would love to chat with you more about your house. Mainly the construction costs if you are open to that

MountainDon

Quotefacing south to take advantage of solar gain in winter but block it out in summer,

Is that still workable? Don't the energy conservation rules for windows rule that out. Windows need to meet a Solar Heat Gain Coefficient standard, designed to minimize heat gain in summer. I have not looked at recent developments but I do know our 4 year old windows are very good at blocking the hot NM summer sun and They dont have a summer/winter selector switch.  ;) 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


1201

Quote from: MountainDon on October 13, 2018, 09:30:30 AM
Is that still workable? Don't the energy conservation rules for windows rule that out. Windows need to meet a Solar Heat Gain Coefficient standard, designed to minimize heat gain in summer. I have not looked at recent developments but I do know our 4 year old windows are very good at blocking the hot NM summer sun and They dont have a summer/winter selector switch.  ;)

I'll have to look into that more. The best triple glazed windows I saw when I last looked had an shgc of about 28% ie they block out only about 72% of the sun's radiant energy if I understand it correctly.
In my hot humid climate that is not good enough. I want zero solar radiation hitting my walls/windows from March through early october.


Since I live in a hot humid climate where we have more cooling degree days than heating degree days winter is the lesser concern. Ie I'd rather have too much shade throughout the year even if it means less sun hitting the windows in winter.

Winter is also the lesser concern because it's cheaper to build and use solar collectors  for heat in winter than it is to run the AC in the summer

1201


Dave Sparks

I tell my solar clients building these days to orient for view. Do not worry so much about heat gain as it can all be easily solved with a mini-split heat pump.

It just is too easy now, so forget about ground source heat pumps and walls/windows to absorb heat. Do that if you want and have tons of money. As of 2007 when I first tested the mini-split for offgrid solar, a major gamechanger for those with limited power.

Light colored roofs/walls? pick the color you want and for attics use R60 if needed. Build what you want.  A few extra KW of solar will solve most problems.
"we go where the power lines don't"

MountainDon

The SHGC is the fraction of incident solar radiation admitted through a window, both directly transmitted and absorbed and subsequently released inward. SHGC is expressed as a number between 0 and 1. The lower a window's solar heat gain coefficient, the less solar heat it transmits.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

So a number of .28 means 28% comes thru
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


1201

Quote from: Dave Sparks on October 13, 2018, 10:53:57 AM
I tell my solar clients building these days to orient for view. Do not worry so much about heat gain as it can all be easily solved with a mini-split heat pump.

It just is too easy now, so forget about ground source heat pumps and walls/windows to absorb heat. Do that if you want and have tons of money. As of 2007 when I first tested the mini-split for offgrid solar, a major gamechanger for those with limited power.

Light colored roofs/walls? pick the color you want and for attics use R60 if needed. Build what you want.  A few extra KW of solar will solve most problems.

Thanks for the input. Optimizing  house design is just part of a journey to a zero cost life. I envision a situation where I don't spend money on energy, or food etc. Is it possible? Maybe not but maybe I can get close.
Mini splits will definitely be a big part of that equation but I also want a house that is still livable even if there is no power for some reason. After i limewashed my old, inefficient  house it maxes out at 82 degrees in the middle of a 100+ degree summer day. If I had correct orientation, good shading, and better insulation I could envision it never getting above 76-78 degrees at which point I wouldnt even need air conditioning.

I do like your idea of r60 roof though. Do you have experience with sips? My top contenders are sips or double stud walls of you have any input

1201

Quote from: MountainDon on October 13, 2018, 11:00:38 AM
So a number of .28 means 28% comes thru

Copy that. I think we said same thing in a different way  ;D

Dave Sparks

Quote from: 1201 on October 13, 2018, 12:37:14 PM
Thanks for the input. Optimizing  house design is just part of a journey to a zero cost life. I envision a situation where I don't spend money on energy, or food etc. Is it possible? Maybe not but maybe I can get close.
Mini splits will definitely be a big part of that equation but I also want a house that is still livable even if there is no power for some reason. After i limewashed my old, inefficient  house it maxes out at 82 degrees in the middle of a 100+ degree summer day. If I had correct orientation, good shading, and better insulation I could envision it never getting above 76-78 degrees at which point I wouldnt even need air conditioning.

I do like your idea of r60 roof though. Do you have experience with sips? My top contenders are sips or double stud walls of you have any input


We have not spent any money on energy for 10 years now. Before that, the previous 16 years offgrid we used a propane genset and solar was much more expensive then. Now we use electric as much as possible. For about a month near the winter solstice we just choose to skip a load of laundry or burn firewood for heat. I am looking for an electric car to use my excess solar on. Probably a Chevy.

I am very conservative so the climate change and greenhouse gases are way down the list from making sense financially.

In my opinion a home with people cooking in it, needs to stay below 76f when it is 100 outside.

No direct experience with SIPS but if the cost is reasonable why not use it?

My point here is, even an existing 2 x 4 home and enough solar and a mini-split will work these days. I have done it a few times [cool]
What is the point of building something that takes so long to finish. I say get it done and enjoy the place you pick!
Good Luck!
"we go where the power lines don't"

1201

Absolutely.

I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I ever get started and I appreciate your input.

Dave Sparks

A suggestion for anyone looking to live offgrid. Look at what is out there? For instance, Below is a link to a an offgrid home with 83 acres of land for 360K. the owner will carry with a deposit.

It could be divided and you could sell some of the land. As it is, it is less than 5K per acre with a house. Power system of 7kw of solar by yours truly.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/70398077_zpid/37.577575,-119.947529,37.500806,-120.064774_rect/12_zm/1_fr/
"we go where the power lines don't"

1201

#19
Quote from: Dave Sparks on October 14, 2018, 10:54:03 AM
A suggestion for anyone looking to live offgrid. Look at what is out there? For instance, Below is a link to a an offgrid home with 83 acres of land for 360K. the owner will carry with a deposit.

It could be divided and you could sell some of the land. As it is, it is less than 5K per acre with a house. Power system of 7kw of solar by yours truly.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/70398077_zpid/37.577575,-119.947529,37.500806,-120.064774_rect/12_zm/1_fr/

You are right. Go off the beaten path and there are some deals to be had.

I'll keep my thoughts on dome homes to myself :)


paul s

the best tng is ask if the lot is buildable planing and zoning and all the 'rules'may only leave 10 or 12 sq ft on which to put the house.

ok i exzaurate never could spell
paul

rzims

Quote from: Dave Sparks on October 14, 2018, 10:54:03 AM
A suggestion for anyone looking to live offgrid. Look at what is out there? For instance, Below is a link to a an offgrid home with 83 acres of land for 360K. the owner will carry with a deposit.

It could be divided and you could sell some of the land. As it is, it is less than 5K per acre with a house. Power system of 7kw of solar by yours truly.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/70398077_zpid/37.577575,-119.947529,37.500806,-120.064774_rect/12_zm/1_fr/

not a bad price for that much land....we've begun the search for property (although we're looking off Hwy 80) and offgrid seems to be a lot more common now than before.
I've read that offgrid is a little more complicated if you're not living there year round and only want it for weekends and vacations....
I'm just starting to try to learn about this stuff though and have no real experience

Dave Sparks

Part time homes are not that hard and I have a few who are clients.  The key is too not be so remote as there is not someone full time nearby who can be a mutual friend for your goals and be a resource to protect from theft or vandalism.

The challenge if you like remote places and unattended, is the blend of not being too remote with bad people who still know the area.
The other way is super remote where there is no theft :)

I can monitor their power system from my home and they can also from web or cell. Lots of possibilities. You still have the 30% federal tax credit for a solar power system for a few more years.

Good Luck!
"we go where the power lines don't"