And is there any hope our illustrious leaders are able to learn anything from Greece's financial condition???
I see the latest US budget proposal still has the feds spending more money than what they take in. I see Greece in riots as their government proposes 20% cuts in social benefits and 20+% increases in taxes. Yet Washington seems to believe spending more will solve our problems.
One thing i saw likened the US to a family continuing to spend $9000 a year more than what they earn, while already being $153,000 in debt.
I don't know if there are any rational people in government. ???
Quote from: ScottA on February 15, 2012, 04:10:21 PM
You can't really debate government spending without understanding what money is and how it works. Greece and the US are not in the same boat because the US creates much of the money the rest of the world uses. If the government stops borrowing money soon there would be no money because that's how it is created. Every time the Government borrows a dollar from the FED a new dollar is created. Likewise when a dollar is repayed a dollar is destroyed. The problem is the way in which money is created not how much is borrowed. The system we have garrantees there is always more money owed than actually exists because of intrest being charged on the newly created money. Greece ran out of credit and since they don't have the power to create unlimited money like the US does they got screwed. The US on the other hand has a printing press guarded by the worlds most powerful military. So long as that doesn't change the Government will never run out of cash. Just forget about saving because the inflation this causes will destroy any savings you have over time.
The government does not borrow money from the Fed
Greece has a problem we do not. They no longer have their own currency as they moved to the euro. Thus they have the problem of their debt being denominated in a currency they cannot control. They must borrow an outside currency to pay their debts but the fraud is soo high they find it increasingly difficult to do. Greece's 1 year bond is now paying 521% ..
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GGGB1YR:IND Think about that. Let's say you had a credit card at 521% annually, does it matter anymore? That ship has been burned to the ground. They will default at some point, it is the only answer.
Ajax, the government does not borrow from the fed? Really? Who do you think the primary dealers get the money from? PDCF? A quick look at the federal reserve balance sheet, the H4.1. It shows 1.6 trillion in U.S. Treasury securities today. Your assertion is invalid sir.
Greece 1 year bond touched 811% today. Word on the street is they default on March 23rd and that a "secret" time-line has been pushed to the major players. You would have to have rocks in your head to buy those bonds, ask MF global how that works out... or more importantly ask the farmers who had their non margin accounts "re-hypothicized" by Corzine and his ilk how that worked out. I am hearing that huge numbers of cattle folks are not even using the futures markets anymore because the entire structure at chicago cme/cbot is questionable. Once the fraud is clearly evident that confidence just disappears. Without confidence there is no market.
Notice how quiet Ajax got after being asked a specific question to his rediculous assertion. What an ass.
Play nice boys. No kicking sand or calling names...
As far as I can see, a reshuffle of the European economic union is inevitable. What that will mean for us I have no idea (but there are plenty of theories out there). When is a lurch only a muddle-through stumble and when does it cascade into a fall down the whole flight of stairs?
A lot of the drinkers are a little tipsy right now and they are trying to lean on each other for support. (Closing the bar and bringing out the coffee might help.)
Quote from: John Raabe on February 24, 2012, 10:55:04 PM
(Closing the bar and bringing out the coffee might help.)
John,
We all know that doesn't make you any less drunk...It just masks the effects ;)
John
"Without confidence there is no market."
And there it is, the alpha and omega of economics.
Quote from: fishing_guy on February 25, 2012, 09:31:12 AM
John,
We all know that doesn't make you any less drunk...It just masks the effects ;)
John
Back in my pre AA days just a wide awake drunk........ ;)
. Maybe if we all bought a bottle or two of genuine Greek Ouzo, Retsina or other wine we could help them out? ;)
Or some Greek olive oil, if you don't use alcohol.
Quote from: muldoon on February 16, 2012, 11:16:23 AM
Ajax, the government does not borrow from the fed? Really? Who do you think the primary dealers get the money from? PDCF? A quick look at the federal reserve balance sheet, the H4.1. It shows 1.6 trillion in U.S. Treasury securities today. Your assertion is invalid sir.
Yes, the FED holds Treasury debt. The Treasury sells to the open market and the Fed buys from the open market. I don't debate that.
What I was referring to in the post I quoted (a post that for some reason has now been deleted) was the tone that the treasury gets its money from the FED. The kind of garbage that you see in the web video Money Masters or that you hear from clowns like Alex Jones. "Every dollar in existence has been borrowed from the FED". That was the gist of what I objected to. Perhaps my interpretation of that post was incorrect, perhaps it was not. Either way, my original comment was too brief to fully convey what I wished it to.
Quote from: muldoon on February 24, 2012, 09:53:58 PM
Notice how quiet Ajax got after being asked a specific question to his rediculous assertion. What an ass.
(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/16/128739453364358763.jpg)
By the way, you misspelled ridiculous.
NOTE: The missing post was deleted by ScottA, the author, along with several other posts he made just before he flew the coop.