CountryPlans Forum

Hi folks,

My family owns an AG-20 parcel near the little town of Palermo, CA.  That's near  Oroville.  No wiser?  Don't worry about it.  It rests at about 400 feet, so we don’t get snow.  We work in the San Francisco Bay Area and any building experience we have acquired came from weekend home improvement and farm projects.

Our plan is to move out to our proto-farm in 3 to 5 years.  We want to build our own house, and John’s 20’x30’ cottage is our goal.  So far we’ve done some non-structural things to our Bay Area house, built a 10’x12’ shed with a peaked roof.

Aside from the wishing, we started our project at the end of September.  All four of us (My wide Danielle (Dan), our kids David and Robin, and me) and attended the straw bale building workshop at the Solar Living Institute in Hopland, CA.  It was lead by a building inspector and was attended by a good number of builders with great questions.

Next we held design sessions to figure out what we wanted to build (There’s a free pocket protector to the first one who figures out what I do for a living) and we eventually came up with a concept for a 24’x18’ shed roofed straw bale – thing.  We call it the “lodge”. 

I did the research, drew up the plans, and got an agricultural exemption permit for the building.  We won’t live in it – That’s what the cottage will be for.  Our county allows only one residence on an AG-20 (Agriculture – 20 acres) parcel, and I want to save the fun of going through that permitting process for later.

It takes us 3 hours to drive to the farm and we don’t have work lights.  Winter days are short days, but we can still get a good 6 hours in if we plan it right.  Dave and I came up on an earlier weekend and marked out where the footings needed to go.  We picked up the footings on the way in and drove them almost right up to the site.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/100_0979.jpg)

That’s not going to happen later in the season when it gets wet.  We have lots of clay and that Dodge is rear-wheel drive: Not your farm truck.

I like to draw and plan and work, but Dan has an uncanny facility with patience and attention to detail.  We have 21 pavers that need to be dead level and she can do it.  Quickly or slowly, it doesn’t matter make any difference to her.  Drew lift rock.  Dan make rock hold up lodge.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/100_0985.jpg)

You can't quite see it, but Dan is holding this great leveling tool.  It has a three-pronged fork on one side ofthe head and a narrow hoe on the other.  She says it was perfect for chipping and leveling the soil.  She also made the footing holes wider and longer.  instead of 24"x24" for a 16"x16" paver she made them closer to 30"x30".  That gave her more room to move dirt out of the way and back in for leveling.

We only got one day of work in.  The rest of the weekend is 4H and all kinds of kid stuff.  If the weather holds out we plan to go up again 12/22-23 to finish the pavers and get as far toward building and placing the beams as we can.

Sounds like a fun project.  Hope you are not in the area prone to fires(lately). Keep it fun and the kids will enjoy. Turn it into work and not so much.  Keep us posted on the progress.

Looking forward to seeing reports on your progress!  There are several straw bale houses in our neck of the woods.  Great for insulation & I like the nice deep window sills etc.

Very cool! Keep your eyes on the goal and you will get it done.

Judy

Neat project! Not quite sure yet how this thing will work (post and beam supported floor with strawbale walls bearing on ??? the platform floor??? or maybe post and beam structure with infill strawbale.) ???

Looking forward to seeing this evolve.

This thread had a bit more info on Drew's plans.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3505.msg38811#msg38811

Oh, you bet, Judy!  (And I saw your SBH at your site.  Very nice!)

I think the biggest challenges don't lie in the physical building.  I know my abilities and limitations there, and feel I have the confidence to stretch a little.  The thing is devising a plan that works well with my family.  While we are all gung-ho on developing the farm, I need to design the work so that a.) it doesn't have so much new stuff that mistakes are likely and costly, and most important, b.) it keeps everyone engaged and happy.  Planning a day of walking in 21 50-pound pier blocks is not a way to have blissful family time.  I've also learned that planning the work to complete a moderate goal for the day with certainty is better than planning to achieve a stretch goal with 20%  probability of completion.  Success compounds.

Fortunately this isn't the first project we've done as a family.  We've worked a lot of the bugs out when we built Casa Guacamole.  (https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/Picture024.jpg)

While building Casa Guacamole, I managed to develop a case of tendinitis that took several months to heal.  I got it from the improper use of a 22-ounce framing hammer.  That hammer is now mounted over the door.

I work as an IT project manager during the week.  I am in my element when I do cost estimates, work breakdown structures, process and specification research, and all that.  Fortunately I'm also in my other element when I'm doing cool stuff with my family.  There are a lot of great opportunities with this project, and I have an eye on them all.   :) (Ew!)

Drew when you really get into the "swing" of things consider buying a frame nailer. You can pick one up for about $200.  If you don't have a compressor consider something like a porter cable kit with pancake , brad, finish and crown stapler. You can find for about $250.  This little investment will save your elbow and lessen your down time and Dr. visits.

Air nailers are real arm savers. They can also be very dangerous. Be certain to read and understand the warnings. That said, I'd never want to do any serious building without one.

Yep they are Don. It seem like it usually happens when you are doing something you shouldn't be. I was helping a nephew but an addition on his house. We were putting up rafters.  So I was nailing a 2X6 verticle on the outside wall as a stop to rest the rafters against.  Was about 7' off the ground so instead of getting a ladder I just hung out the window and was holding the 2X6 with one hand and the nailer with the other. Got 2 in the 2X6 and the third went into the palm of my hand. 16d.  I still had about an inch sticking out to pull with.  Didn't feel it for the first 2 minutes but after that I did. Hit the thumb bone .  I was 2 months before it didn't hurt again. 

Ask a guy helping to pull it out. He got sick so my BIL pulled it out. They don't bleed much with a nail in the hole.

You didn't nail it (the hand) to the wood did you? That would really suck if you were alone.

Glad it worked out okay in the end, John

The thing with air nailers is just when you're doing something you shouldn't, it'll jumpo and fire twice or something like that. Or the nail will hit something hard, take a turn and come out where you gripping the wood.

No luckly I didn't but you would have thought I did about midnight that night.  d*

My son and Pat both shot themselves in the hand with mine, and Fred shot me in the back with it.

Don't forget that there are palm nailers if you like the single shot with regular nails or even big nails up to 60d

I would say that the majority of nail gun accidents occur when things are really busy and the "shooter" is rushed or just not careful. It certaining gave me a new respect for air nailers. I still use them but think before I pull the trigger. 

I like to donate blood; I just like to make an appointment first.    ;)

I hear ya'll about the nailer.  I rented one from Home Depot when we built the shed.  It was a cordless framing nailer, so it was pretty heavy and not much fun with my messed up arm.  It sure shortened up the work, but the overhead of picking it up and dropping it off cut into my work day.  The thought of getting a compressor and a nailer to keep has a bit of charm.  There's a tool for blowing earth plaster onto the walls that uses a compressor, so that helps in the justification.

A contractor I know once managed to nail his foot to a joist. 

"Sawzall! Sawzall!" he yelled.

"What?" asked the poor kid working with him.

You can imagine how the rest went.

Hmm.  At least he didn't nail his foot to a stud...   :o

Today we're making pier blocks in the mud room.  Life is good.   8)

I watched the weather reports like a hawk this week.  We ended up with some rain, but not enough to ruin the work weekend. 

We like to drive up to Colusa and stay with my dad the night before, drink his coffee in the morning, and drive an hour out to the site.  The foundation has three rows of seven pavers.  We leveled the first row two weekends ago.  Dan pulled one up and found it wetter than we liked and we decided to put gravel under them all.  We pulled them up, remeasured, pured gravel, and relevelled 18 of the 21 pavers on the first day.

My Dakota has rear wheel drive and a cap on it, so I was borrowing my old man's Montero.  No bed, but 4WD.  We had to get the gravel in bags instead of a scoop in the bed.  Oh well.

The building supply store brought in the beams, posts, and Simpson brackets.  While I took the Montero up and down the hill a couple of times,  the F-550 dualie got caught the first time.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAGE_00068.jpg)

They spent the rest of the day trying to pull that truck out of the mud.  I felt really bad about that, but Brian, the driver, took it in stride.  At least it wasn't raining.

I don't have a chop saw and didn't want to make the post cuts with a circle saw (along with the attendant hauling of the generator), so I brought a nice miter box with us.  Unfortunately it got broken in the back of the Montero, so I had to get a replacement.  The replacement was a cheap plastic box with a dull saw.  The saw was also about 3 1/2" wide, so it wouldn't cut a 4"x4" in one cut.

Instead of another trip to HD (ugh), Dan made what she calls a "miter H" out of some 2"x4" and it worked like a charm all day.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/100_0992.jpg)

We got all three beams up just before sunset at 4:45, but need to do a little more work on the middle one.  Here's a picture before we finished.  We were too busy to take pictures at the end.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/100_0993.jpg)

I think it will take us another day to finish the leveling and the rest of the posts, them some work mixing and pouring concrete on the footings.  We'll probably hit the beams with some deck paint to protect them from the rain.  We don't get much, but it would make me feel better.

I would like to have done the floor before the ground got too muddy, but I think we were lucky to get as far as we did.  I can't ask my family to walk in all that lumber and I know the building supply store won't until late spring!

So now I get to plan my irrigation lines and draw plans for a wash house.  Plenty to do.  I get the feeling that winter was invented so that farmers would spend some time planning.

It's too wet to get a truck down to the site with materials, so we're working on the irrigation line.  The well and water tank are about 80 feet above the lowest field.  We have a total of ~750 feet to trench.  The hill has an amazing number of rocks in it, but we're saving them for - something.  Maybe a cob oven.  See the "What's for dinner" thread for what we do around here for pizza.  :D

Here's Dave the used rock salesman.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/PICT0101.jpg)

And what a mighty fine trench it is.  I chose this picture from 78 others, just for you.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/PICT0102-1.jpg)

Here's the hill after the stringing but before the trenching.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/PICT0096.jpg)

We got about 260' of the 750' started.  About 60% is at the proper depth and the otehr 40% needs more work.  The earth on the flat is a lot easier to work with, which makes sense since the soil would have been washed downhill over the years.

My dad, a former farm boy, marveled at our choice not to use a trencher.  I told him we a.) didn't want to have to get that thing back up the hill in the mud, b.) didn't want to wrestle a 920 pound machine for the first time in less than ideal circumstances, and c.) we actually like kicking our own butts now and then.  One thing is for sure.  We are getting a good idea of the different soil qualities all over the farm.

I can't believe you are doing that by hand.  Makes me feel like such a wuss. [crz]

Our trench was 600 ft over an 80 ft elevation rise with LOTS of rocks - I thought it was tough working in 100 degree weather laying the pipe all the way - I laid & glued the 1 in pvc pipe & Glenn did the 2 in all the way to the top of the mountain where our tank is...  now, digging it by hand...  :o ???  don't think I'd like to tackle that!  You guys are moving right along - great work!  [cool]

Quote from: glenn kangiser on January 16, 2008, 12:19:09 AM
I can't believe you are doing that by hand.  Makes me feel like such a wuss. [crz]

I don't know, Glenn.  Most of the comments from the family have been on our sanity, not their tenacity.

I have to say that this would be a non-starter in 100 degrees though.  As much clay as we have, the ground bakes up like a china plate.  I was joking with a neighbor why I wouldn't want to grow medicinal marijuana.  Aside from the federal problems there would be the local security.

"Get away from my grass, boy.  I don't want to have to shoot you.  It's not that I like you, but I'd have to bury you and it's July..."

Last weekend we finished up and piled back into the truck.  Everyone was saying, "Oh, man!  I am broken!  Ow!  Hey, did you see how much we got done?!  Whoah!  Someone's gonna have to carry me in!"

The bod is back to normal and we are driving back up Friday night for another round.  I've been looking forward to it all week.

Thanks for the encouragement, G&K.   ;D

Quote"Get away from my grass, boy.  I don't want to have to shoot you.  It's not that I like you, but I'd have to bury you and it's July..."

I think you are doing great, Drew. 

I think there is hope. 

With our encouragement, your tenacity and attitude, and advice from everyone here at Countryplans, I think it may just be possible to transform you from a city slicker into a redneck. :)

I'm half way there, pard.  :)

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Misc/IMAGE_00069.jpg)

Those are my Durangos in front of my Dell (The Farmer and the Dell?). 

Lose the polish, Drew.  Polished boots make your feet stink.[crz] 

Unpolished boots breath and take all that redneck sweat away -- make people have pity on you because you are too poor to polish your boots, generally give you better deals and trust you more.  Get rid of suits unless dealing with untrustworthy (or at least questionable integrity) suited people.  If we were intended to wear suits, we would have all been born politicians, lawyers or used car salesmen.  People in blue jeans and dungaree shirts were rated the most trustworthy.

OK -- you can keep a pair of polished boots for work with city people, but do work on it.  You are coming along quite well though. :)

A mans word is his contract, son.  If you can't take a man at his word, you can't trust him at all.  :-\

Don't know where that came from-- just thought I'd throw in a little more redneck training.

What an energetic team!!

Actually building a building should be a snap! :D

We did more on the plumbing aspect of the lodge project.  It was dry enough that we might have been able to bring a truck down with the floor materials, but I really want to get past the wind and rain before I leave an unfinished floor exposed.  Rain I don't worry as much about.  Stuff dries.  The winds can turn a lot of lumber into a kite.  I get enough of that in Pacifica.

Anyway, we dug the sod off for the complete 610' run from the tank to the fence near the lodge.  We're digging to 12" and have about 40% of the trench at that depth.  Another couple of crew days with a little rain before the work day should be all we need to finish.  That would be 4 crew days for 610' of 12" trench in clay.  Not too bad.

I'm still thinking about whether we want to do the last 150' run around the lodge after the lodge construction is complete so we don't have to work around it or even if it would be an issue.  Right now it is not a critical path issue, so I let it rest.

Here's the trench.  That's my dad in the chair.  We put the chair at the middle point between the two sections we were working on.  The "winner" got to sit down.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/100_1038.jpg)

Dan and Robin worked on the hill.  This was the slowest, most thankless work of the day.  They busted more rocks than a gang at Sing Sing.  They still kept their sens of humor.  And all the cookies.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/100_1043.jpg)

Drew I have to hand it to you all. Anything bigger than a post hole and I'm looking for a piece of machinery.

That's some serious will power. How did you keep it so straight? I couldn't keep that straight with a trencher.  [cool]

That's the thing, Scott.  We stretched a mason's line on 18" stakes, eyeballed it, and got going.  When you are digging 4" at a time, it's easy to correct. :D

Quote from: Drew on January 20, 2008, 12:59:27 PM
That's the thing, Scott.  We stretched a mason's line on 18" stakes, eyeballed it, and got going.  When you are digging 4" at a time, it's easy to correct. :D

I had a few trenches like that on my place(longest 475 ft) but they need to be 4-5 ft deep due to freezing. Course we use a back hoe for those trenches! I try to put everything underground and on deep hard to get ones I throw in a 2nd pipe due to the cost of digging compaired to trenching. Also if during the winter a pipe should break you just switch over to the spare one. No way to dig again when the ground is frozen. All my trenches have 2 PVC pipes for important water runs like to the barn or house from the well. Mark

That's one impressive looking trench!   :)

I'm getting tired just looking at it.  Good job, people. :)

I'm still in awe that y'all are doing that by hand... very impressive.  Looks like a ton of work.

Drew check your PM.

John

It was in the low 60s yesterday at the farm (Man, I love California!) and we had our third trench digging day.  You'd think it would get old by then and you'd be right, but we had a few things on our side that kept the spirits going easily.  The biggest is that we are not trying to do it in multiple days in a row.  While it's 3 hours each way, we get to drop in on my dad, have dinner out while we groan about our pains, and have a great picnic lunch.  I think that stuff and the progress on a big, cool job is what gets remembered.

Everyone in the family has had this flu bug but me.  Until lunch yesterday.  After digging all morning I came up to our picnic table and put my head down.  I'd also managed to overwork my right wrist, so my shoveling was over.  We had lunch and I felt a little better.  I ended up helping  Dan by picking the rocks from her trench, holding the soil on her shovel, and lifting the blade with my left hand for her.  It made a huge difference on the progress through the trench!  Dan could get bigger shovels full and didn't have to stoop for the rocks.  Plus we got to talk and I didn't end up sitting like an invalid getting sunburned while everyone else worked.

We have a little over 60 yards to finish the last 6"-8" on.  I'm still planning to start laying the pipe next weekend.

We've been having a devil of a time locating clay for our earth plaster.  I did not want to mine it from my land since it would be easier to pay and transport it than it would be to dig it up.  But none of the quarries I called up had or knew of a source for mineral clay.  This is Oroville California!  It is made of gold (which is mostly gone now.  I checked.) and clay!  Well, we finally found our clay.  It's sitting next to our trench at the bottom of the hill.  The field is full of it.  Not so good for growing, but great for earth plaster.

We came to this realization late because our digging started at the top of the hill where the soil is sandier and lower in clay.  At the bottom in the field we cut the sod away but didn't get past the organic material.  Now we've finally gone to depth and we have clay in spades (so to speak).  We don't have to mine it since we already have it.  All I need to do is store it so it doesn't get rained on until we need it.

Porphyr to the People!

As long as you're having fun, Drew, we're happy.

When I worked at the phone company we used to get a new shovel, heat each side with a torch and bend it up at about 2 inches to make side boards.  The wife could lift more dirt that way without it falling off here shovel. :)

The clay is good news, Drew.  For a minute there I thought you might have to drive all the way to our place.

QuoteIt is made of gold (which is mostly gone now.  I checked.

How did you check, Drew?

The easy 5 to 10 % is gone.  The rest is still there, waiting for you, calling your name, maybe right under the next rock you dig out.

Do you own a gold pan?

I admit I was looking for the big gold rocks the neghbor puts on top of his fence post.  :)  And none of the 1,265 rocks we've pulled up are that shiny.  Still pretty, though.

I have no gold pan but we do have Wyandotte Creek going through one corner of the property.  There would be worse ways of spending a day than panning.

I had thought about the drive and was resolved to that silver lining should we not find clay anywhere.  My niece and nephew live in Manteca which is even on the way.  Now it looks like I'll have to find another excuse to come meet you and Sassy.  :D

The real necessary work, trenching etc. gets in the way of fun and prospecting sometimes. 

Maybe we can meet halfway sometime or take a drive up your way...maybe after the trench is done. [crz]

Ha!  Yeah, I admit our ability to entertain is a bit strained at this point.  The "kitchen" is a couple of saw horses and scrap plywood.  But it opens out into the "dining room" a lovely unfinished picnic table.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/100_0668.jpg)

We offer a wide selection for "comfort" facilities.  You have your choice of several hundred oaks or the can in the Casa.  We won't look.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/Picture024.jpg)

There are a few BB guns for plinking my dad's Diet Rite Cola cans ("We're surrounded!").  There's always walking around the place; down off the hill, through the meadow, into the forest.  It's kinda big for 20 acres.

The snakes scare my niece's family and with the little ones I don't blame them.  I've only seen one rattler and my dad dispatched it with a slender piece of OSB.  Funny.  It got shorter each time he took a whack, 'till he finally delivered the coup de grace with an 8" stick.  "How are we set for scissors around here?" he said.

But there is no ATV and no tractor.  I have my eye on the BCS 853, but that's not the thing the grandkids want to play on.  Hmm.  Maybe I can teach them to plow and make raised beds.  We don't get a lot of trenching volunteers.  I'll bet we'll get some help for putting the earth plaster on though.  That's fun stuff.

We may drop in for a work party or something sometime.

While it seems early, the rattlers are up and stirring now.  Mikey B. killed a 28 incher the other day.  Wear your leather boots. :)

Facilities look great BTW.

Saturday might be the last work day we get for a while, but what a day it was!

This time it was my dad, my son (Dave), and me.  Dave worked on the remaining trenching while the Old Man and I doped and laid pipe into the trench.  Here's a picture.  The vertical lines are the 2" risers.  They're on 60' centers.  The ones I don't need to use yet will have a cap on the top connected by a compression fitting.  The other ones will have a homemade manifold, also connected by a compression fitting.  That way I can move manifolds around, change them out, design new ones, and expand as I need to.  The whole system can deliver ~3,000 gph to 4.4 acres on this field.  I can expand it out at the end when I need to go further west into the trees.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/PICT0031.jpg)

The whole line was 610'.  We had our share of rock veins, but none so bad as this one.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/PICT0035.jpg)

That's the OM working on what we now call "Dave's Rock", a table about 4' x 2 1/2' or so.  No idea how far down it goes.

"Since I have a farm, can I have dynamite?" I asked the OM.

We talked about renting a jack hammer.  We talked about putting a car jack under it, if "under" it wasn't somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

"Why don't we go around it?" asked Dave.

"Well, because it would reduce the pressure at the far end of the pipe, Dave," said Dave's dad, "It's better to have a straight line to reduce friction."

Dave's grandpa advised Dave's dad that he was full of fertilizer.  Okay, yeah.  It was an aesthetic thing.  After some careful surveying, Dave's dad said, "Yeah, Dave.  Let's go around."

Bends in pipe like that may increase friction and reduce flow slightly, but do not confuse water pressure with water flow.


Water flow is the result of pressure on volume. Volume is the amount of water available for delivery, and pressure is the force exerted on it. There is a big difference between the two.

Excellent point, MD.  And I am more concerned with pressure than with flow.  Even though the slight detour around the rock would make very little difference, the concept is good to keep in mind for next time.  Even the expansion.

Drew check your PM box.

John

Ha!  Yeah, I admit our ability to entertain is a bit strained at this point.  The "kitchen" is a couple of saw horses and scrap plywood.  But it opens out into the "dining room" a lovely unfinished picnic table.

Looks just like a bunch of picnics we had at our place before we built anything!  We had our horse trailer with the RV in front...  Glenn made a nice picnic table & we had lots of get-togethers - each little step seemed like such a milestone -we were always inviting people over to see the progress! 

I never work so hard as when I'm unemployed.  Didn't even have time to log in and report on What's for Dinner.

We've made great progress on the lodge foundation and the irrigation system.  We got the beams up, leveled, and squared.  We have a few nails in the Simpson brackets and a 2x8 over the three beams to keep it that way until we put in the cross braces.  I've managed to damage both wrists, so I'm thinking of finishing up with long screws instead of 16d nails in the brackets.  I wasn't being a jerk with my wrists, either.  It didn't take much to mess them up and I admit to being a little concerned.  I'm going to take them into the shop.

Anyway, here's a picture of Dan, Dave, and the Old Man working on the nails.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAGE_00081.jpg)

The irrigation system was very educational and profoundly satisfying.  Going from  "I want an irrigation system" to "How do you build one?" to "Learn the requirements, math, physics, materials, etc." to oh yeah, the digging part, to testing and finally looking up the hill at the Thing that came from my mind.  Not a box.  This beats golf any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

So I learned a few things along the way.

1. You should bleed the system all the way before cutting into it.  Even a few PSI will spray you in the forehead.

2. If you cut out a piece of cracked pipe, throw it out.  The patch you need to make later will amazingly be the same size as this piece of pipe you just found in your scrap.

3.  Primer and dope need 3 hours to set, not 10 minutes like it says on the can.

4.  Pipe dope does not smell good.  No, if goensn't.

5.  30 psi on 2" of pipe = 3.14*2*30=a whole lot of pressure to try to hold back with your hands.

6.  POP! means the pressure test is over.

The mainline has seven risers on it.  In order for us to tell them apart, we gave them names.  The Old Man decided we should name them after presidents.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/IMAGE_00079.jpg)

This is a Nixon.  Two bibs up in the air.  "I am not a crook!"  Yeah.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/IMAGE_00077.jpg)

This is a Clinton.  The early manifold models were attached to the riser with a compression fitting.  When brought to pressure, this one, which was at the far end of the line, would pop off and make us stop everything else.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/IMAGE_00078.jpg)

This is just an end cap on a riser, so it doesn't do anything.  We call it a Carter.

Here's a picture of the whole line going up the hill.  Right now I have a 200 gallon tank in position, and that should get us through the straw bale construction.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/IMAGE_00080.jpg)

It's a good thing I like to color green, man.

Great progress.  Makes you want to stay off work doesn't it.  Little different with the nails instead of the mouse huh. I mean with the wrist.  Looks like the weather is good enough for the spandex. Had snow flurries here today. I had completely forgot about your project. Not really I occassionally wondered but didn't check out recent post as the last one was in 2/08. You've got a lot more digging to be able to use all the presidents. Maybe just use the ones you remember.  No one else remembers the others either.  ;)

Carter... I like it... ;D

Re: using screws instead of nails. Screws ('deck' screws at least) are manufactured from a more brittle steel, or maybe the heat treating makes them that way. Screws can, and do fracture (I've had it happen myself), when subjected to shear forces. Nails give instead of breaking. So, screws might not be a good idea for anything important to making sure the structure stays erect.

PVC exposed to the sun will break down fairly quickly. You should wrap all your risers as soon as possible with something to protect them from the sun.

Thanks for that, Scott.  Would paint do or should I go with something stronger?

MD, are there screws I can use that would work okay, or should I resign myself to nails?

Not certain about other screws. You could try some "regular" plated screws; not the "deck" or those gold colored zinc plated ones. If you take a deck screw and screw it in about 2/3 the way and side whack it with a hammer you'll see they tend to snap off rather than bend. You could try a regular, garden variety screw and see if it bends. I think they might.  :-\ :-\

Re the PVC: Too bad we didn't think of the sunlight earlier... you could've used the grey Carlon electrical PVC, it's got UV inhibitors in it.   Anyhow anything to keep the sun's UV rays off the PVC should work. Paint should work. Laaaarge size heat shrink tubing? Hose?

Paint might work if you put it on thick enough and it's a dark color. I was thinking foil tape.

Latex exterior brush on should work... did for me on one riser I didn't have the right stuff for.

The aluminum foil tape would be good. It sticks well. I covered the RV overhead bunk window with strips of it on a trip years ago to keep the sun out. It's still there and it gets the brunt of the wind going down the highway at 65 mph.

I heard paint will work, years ago.  If you don't, in 20 years or so schedule 40 will likely break.  Don't ask me how I know.

Exposed PEX will only go about 6 months before breaking --  I experimented with that.

Maybe you need a compressor and palm nailer for those computer wrists, Drew.

...and last but not least, we missed your postings, Drew.  You don't know how many sleepless nights I spent running to the computer to see if you posted, then just sat there hoping to see a new one pop up. 

I like ol' slick Willy.  Did you get it fastened down.  Possibly you could tie it down with some scraps or rags, maybe an old blue dress or something.

Thanks for checking in with that great update. :)

Me and my boots are in another cube in Redwood City.  This one is a little more what I'm used to.  No window, boxes of floppies, and a big old magnetic bulk eraser with dire warning signs all around it.  If it goes on my pen will fly through my head like a Halloween movie.  Exciting.

I like the idea of the aluminum tape.  Maybe it will make the County dudes think I'm hiding evidence of their alien abduction.

Can a palm nailer, or anything else for that matter, drive a 16d nail through the tiny holes in a Simpson bracket, Glenn?  I'm willing to give it a shot.

If the nail will go through the hole the palm nailer can do it. Some places may have clearance problems between the palm nailer and surrounding timber.

Drew they are basicly the same diameter holes. Simpson nails are just a little beefier.  I saw Harbor Freight had a palm nailer for $29 and a compressor for $69.

Nail size depends on the Simpson product. Some are punched for 10D nails.

Might be a bit tough to drive a 16D through the hole. That's why I said if the nail fits, nail it.

Yup, Drew.  The palm nailer drives them one nail at a time just like a hammer, but without damaging those computer manipulating wrists.  (I think you need a good steak, boy.  Them there vegetables aren't adding muscle mass to those there arms.)

Trust me -- you'll love it.

I think the Harbor Freight one has the 60d driver for 6 inch spikes also -- not an extra but I may be wrong --- not that I'm often wrong --- I just haven't checked...and the Harbor Freight one will likely work pretty good and is guaranteed.

You were right about the palm nailer, Glenn.  Though I came back to see your Harbor Freight version after I got my Duh-What?  I mean, Dewalt one.

I was working with my son, Dave, when the nailer started leaking air on the sixth nail and stopped working.  "Heaven's sakes!" I said.  No I didn't.  "What shall we do now?  We drove all this way, all for naught!"

"Why don't you read the manual, Dad?"

He's the one who suggested going around the rock in the middle of our irrigation trench instead of through it.  He couldn't be that brilliant twice, could he?

Well, yeah.  I looked at the book and it told me that the tool could have gotten stuck mid-cycle and that I should whack it a few times.  Well, I was already in the mood for a little percussive maintenance, so I went at it.  No joy.  I took it apart and moved the bits around.  No luck.  It still leaked air when I connected it up and started the compressor, just like the Manual said.

Then I took things out of order by accident.  I've never owned an air tool before, so this was all new to me.  I turned on the compressor and had about 20 psi in the hose when I hooked it up to the nailer.  "Thuck!" said the nailer and began to hold air.  "Oh, rapturous joy!" I said.  No I didn't.

We nailed for four more hours in the 90 degree heat and finished all the brackets for the 21-post foundation.  We thought we'd start in on the cross-braces but decided to go at it fresh next time.  We had a good day's work in by that time and Dave wanted to see about a tent at the Army surplus store.

The compressor I got is kind of little and lets me do about 4 nails before I have to let it catch up.  I'm not crazy about that, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to go with  big compressor right off.  It is easy to move around the place with the other tools.  If I do more of this maybe I'll get a bigger one and we can run both at the same time.   Until then I won't be working so fast I mess up my wrists much.

So next time it'll be cross braces and cementing the footings.  Our foundation will be all set and we can get to the floor and framing.  That stuff is good for a bit of troop morale!

I left water in the irrigation system for 2 weeks.  Between expansion, compression, and a little evaporation, we lost between 1/3 and 1/2 gallons.  I call that a success.  I think we can bury the pipe now and set out some drip lines.

No pictures this time since there isn't much new stuff that shows up that way.  The place is an amazing green right now and the snakes are still leaving us alone.

Glenn, that nailer was the ticket.  Thanks for the advice.

Glad to hear from you again Drew.  What was your final fix on the UV protection for your pvc?

My pleasure, Drew, and glad to hear from you again too.

We always look forward to your updates and adventures.

Anxiously awaiting your next one. :)

Hey y'all.

I got to go up to the farm last week.  I drove up by myself Thursday night and stayed through Saturday.  Since we got the 40' container Casa Guacamole has reverted more to a 10'x12' sleeping cabin.  Perfect for a gradually ripening, Unibomber-looking dude who started talking to himself more than usual.

But the weather and fates were kind.  This is what it looked like when we finished a couple weekends ago.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAGE_00081.jpg)

On Friday I did the cross-braces, put concrete on the feet, got the floor materials, and nailed inmost of the Simpson brackets.  My dad came out Saturday and we put it all in place.  Check out the symetrically placed hurricane clips.  Yep.  If this thing blows away I plan to take an acre of dirt with me.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAGE_00093.jpg)

We got the first course of OSB in and ran out of adhesive.  I learned that my leftovers don't keep, even if they are still sealed.  That's okay.  Dan and Dave were bummed at missing all the fun.

Looking at the thing from the ground gives me a bad feeling in my gut.  One end always looks high, and that one end changes when you walk around the thing.  It has to do with the grade and the lines that trick the eye.  Still the level is bang on in every direction.  Then I stood on it and all those fears went away.  This was the only truly flat spot for hundreds of yards.  I could feel it in my feet and back.  And the level.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAGE_00097.jpg)

I'm trying to get everyone up there again at least for Saturday (More 4H on Sunday.).  Flooring and framing is a lot more satisfying.   But who am I telling?

Impressive, Drew, and looks like the wrists have healed up nicely.

Second pix has a bit of a spaceship look to it --- A big wooden mother ship waiting to whisk you off to the far away galaxy of the Vegans. [crz]

Nice progress Drew.  Had the same thing in levelness "trick to the eye" on my loft floor.  My son took a 4' level and checked.  Maybe a little but nothing I will loose any sleep over.  It was that the log had a bow and looked to throw off the floor where it met them.  Are ya going to have a picnic on the deck when it finished? Or maybe a night of camping on it?  ;D ;D ;D

Greeting from Planet Vegan.  Live Long and Parsley.

Camping?  Picnic?  Heaven's no!  It's an ag-exemption permitted building!  I'm not allowed to actually enter it.  I can throw tools and manure through the door and haul them back out with a rake, but that's it.  I don't want to lose the trust the County has given me.   [yuk] [crz]  That said, my tools will be a lot more comfortable at night in the winter.   ;)

I'm thinking about making a 10'x12' grey water outhouse with a composting toilet, shower and sink to accompany this thing.  That way I don't have to run water through the bale wall.  The irrigation line gives us 30+ psi down there.  It's great!

20 acres of math problems.  Ya gotta love the place!

Looks slightly tilted in the last picture.  :o You sure you used the level correctly, Drew?  c*

You bet, Scott.  I put the level out on the floor, then shimmed one side until the little bubble was in the center.   

Naw.  Actually I kept buying and trying levels until I found one that gave me the answer I wanted.   :D

I thought it said  you slammed one side of the level until the bubble was in the center.

That should work too. [crz]

Quote from: Redoverfarm on April 22, 2008, 06:53:07 AM
Nice progress Drew.  Had the same thing in levelness "trick to the eye" on my loft floor.  My son took a 4' level and checked.  Maybe a little but nothing I will loose any sleep over.  It was that the log had a bow and looked to throw off the floor where it met them.  Are ya going to have a picnic on the deck when it finished? Or maybe a night of camping on it?  ;D ;D ;D

It seems to me that this site had a tradition of dancing on the finished deck pictures.  Drew?
(Maybe I'll be sorry I asked....but...have to keep those traditions up...)

Found it...now you're obligated...

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1717.msg15740#msg15740

You know, fishing_guy, I was just thinking of that very picture when we put the last of the OSB on today.  Technically I still need to trim the edges and put on the forward braces to be finished, but when I do, I will treat you (and everyone!) to my break-dancing robot interpretive ballet!

Oh, I've been wating for someone to ask.  Thank you!  Thank you!

PS:  I think driving with an open can of PVC pipe dope in the truck is not as good an idea as I once thought.

Keep it in a brown paper bag, Drew.

I was also going to mention the mandatory platform dancing photo, but somehow the thought leaked out of my holey mind. [crz]

Let's see...that must have been last Sunday... hmm

Drew, I heard you had a big fire up your way -- missed you I hope. hmm

Yeah, Glenn.  So far so good, for us at least.  The town is pretty messed up, though I haven't been up there to see it.  I posted a map on the "How's the Weather?" thread.

We'll just have to see how it goes.  We don't have insurance yet since we are still building.  One thing about building small; it's easier to come back from.

You know what they say about an internal wall fire on a straw bale?  You have 30 days to get out of the building!

Straw is good -- I didn't know it was that good.  We were thinking of you last night when we heard it was Palermo.

Glad you're place is ok...  this year is really going to be bad - we've been seeing the helicopters & fire engines, fire crews out a lot already...  we did get that little reprieve with the rain a couple weeks ago but the ground is bone dry - got 50 in rain last year, this year approx 16 with the last rain.

Still waiting to see the ritual dance on top of the deck - make sure you video the break-dancing robot interpretive!   c* rofl

Well, here's our dancing on the floor picture.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/PICT0095.jpg)

I broke my break dance, so we'll have to settle for some local square dancing.

My jokes are almost as bad as yours, Glenn!

No new word on the fire yet.  I rode my bike from Ocean Beach to the Marin side of the GG Bridge and back.  It doesn't do anything about the fire, but it keeps me from worrying about it.

Here's that hippie that keeps hanging around calling me Dad, Daddy-o, or something.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/PICT0090.jpg)

Far out.

Keep practicing, Drew -- soon they will be as bad a mine.

Looking good Drew.  Once the deck is on you can start to see some progress. 

Looks good Drew. Now you'll have to build walls. No end to the fun.  8)

Drew in the spring around some of the orchards they set out round bales of hay which they light to smolter during the frost season to protect the fruit trees.  They will last a long time due to the tightness of the bales and the air is unable to penetrate the interior until the outsides burn in. But I guess you will stucco or similar finish so that really wouldn't be an issue. 

I found a source for my two string bales near Williams, which is about 60 miles away.  My neighbor has a flatbed so we can handle the hills near my place.  The rice farmer wants $4 a bale, which is pretty steep.  Still, the straw is baled for construction and has < 12% moisture.

Hammer: $6
Milspec hammer: $600

Straw bale: $2
Hippie House bale: $4

I should relax.  The guy is trying to make a living and is providing a product to specification to the market.  I plan to sell my organic value-add products to people at a margin high enough to entice me to enter the market.  God love you, Adam Smith.

I looked a bit more for a company that would sell me some mineral clay.  It's not like I don't have it in the ground, but I need to use my crew's time and morale wisely.  Mining clay, especially after digging the irrigation trench, would be unpopular.  One company I called up tried to scare me about being a first timer and offered to consult.

I'm not up for that, but I do know I should probably do some earth plaster samples before I do the whole place.  Glenn, I have your family recipe.  Do you have any thoughts on varying the mixture for samples to take into account local conditions?

ION, they put up a fire break on the Palermo Honcut Highway and the fire did not breach it.  The fire is now 100% contained.  Temperatures return to 90+ degrees.

Drew given the present economy that is really not that bad for the straw.  Around here they are getting $4.50 for wheat straw to seed and mulch with. But you don't get all the inert properties when seeding with it compared to hay.  If you plant Blue grass then Blue grass comes up not thistles, dock and everything else that is in the hay.  Yeah, Yeah, Yeah  when I was growing up you could PU in the field for $.50 a bale.  But gas was $.25 gallon also. 

Thanks John.  That's good to hear.  I've had a few handshake deals go bad out in the country, so I've gotten a little suspicious.  My wife now says, "If you owe someone five bucks, offer to make payments."  :)

All the more reason to learn to do for myself.  There are lots of good folks out here too.  One of my neighbors wants to come help when the bales go up.  The guy who fixes my dad's car in Colusa gives me a good deal too.

Hey Drew, I would say  just check the clay out -- slightly wet you should be able to make a snake. :)

I have about a 150 tons of it here, Drew -- wish you were closer.

Check the clay and see if it has aggregate in it.  Increase the clay amount some if it does -- like here - about 20 % aggregate so I mix 50/50 with sand for the best mix -- If it's too sandy it will come apart  easier -- too clayey - it will shrink and crack more -- cut straw bales with a chainsaw before removing the strings for shorter straws that are better for plastering.   

Straw is your reinforcement so use enough.  I like some in every handfull of mud.

Me too, Glenn.  Then I could go play in the Park anytime I wanted!

I'm looking at the clay issues: locating, transport, mixing the right ratio for the materials and location, and wondering about the advantages of doing stucco.

Yeah, this sounds like a cop out, but seriously.  Oroville is dry as English wit, so I don't think I'll have to worry about trapping moisture in the walls.  What do you think about the relative advantages/disadvantages of using it?  If anything, I have to tell myself I looked at the option before rejecting it.

Don't tell Hippie HQ I asked about it, though...  ???

hmm Drier than a popcorn f*rt, eh?

Well -- the code approved ones here are mostly stucco covered with wide eaves.  I have seen issues with earth too - you could put cure and seal over it when done to probably stop water penetration.  Earth plaster would likely need to be touched up every few years - some of it does not hold up good and I get tired of it also and go to stucco in places - others the earth plaster went off of -- One wall is still holding up well though - the one where I used the proper mixes etc,

Are you considering chicken wire w/paper back lath?  It might give you a bit of safety..

I read about the chicken wire and paper and how it gives extra protection.  The author thought that it was better overall to leave it off since the bare bales give a great tie in for the stucco.  In the Red Feather project ("Building a Straw Bale House: The Read Feather Construction Handbook" by Nathaniel Corum - I bet it's on your shelf, Glenn) they use stucco, though I imagine they were surrounded by clay soil.

I'm reading your post again.  "Paper back lathe"?  I imagined some sort of moisture resistant material that covers the bales and lies under the wire.  Is that it, or is it something else?

I wonder if chicken wire (no paper) over the bales would add significant tie in and structural strength without interfering with a wifi signal.  I'll have to relay it down from the top of the hill.

When I get broadband out there I'll share it with my neighbors.  The SSID will be "Y33h@w"

It's 26 months until our youngest, Robin, starts college and we can sell this house and move to Palermo.  Unfortunately, some folks I'm reading estimate we still have a few years to shake off the market blues from the lending mess.  Looks like I'm going to have to get creative.

It comes in rolls with the paper already on it.
You are right that you would lose your tie to the straw.  That would be the downside.

There was a guy who used womens frilly undergarments for the lace to hold his stucco together on his alternative home.  I plastered a rammed earth wall I made that wasn't well stabilized with colored stucco - it worked well and while I wasn't into the frilly undergarments I did use some of the cheap 1 inch or so weave plastic deer fence material.  It comes in 7 x 100 foot rolls for about $26 and while not a petticoat, it seemed to work well.

I like the petticoat idea, but my wife would probably wonder why I kept looking up under the rim joists all the time.   ;D

The deer fence idea is good too.  It wouldn't interfere with the wifi, and it's a lot cheaper than chicken wire.

You gotta wonder how that guy got all the undies for his, um, underlayment.  "You throwin' those out, Bob?  Put 'em in my truck.  I know they aren't my size, you jacka$$, just do it!  By the way, where did YOU get them?"

hmm - I guess it must have been a ... slip up.

Drew just ran across this product and thought it may be something you would be interested in .

http://americanclay.com/

John

Hi All,

My .02 cents-we did cement stucco on the exterior over the first 2 courses of bales-great for protection from splashback.  The rest is earthen applied directly to the bales-no lath except over wood which the code requires to be papered then lathed.  The paper-backed lath is a time-saver.

We've been in the house since May 07.  Our monsoon rains last year did damage to the earthen on the south side and I took a day and a half to repair that last fall.  I liked what it did to the SW corner and actually left it alone.  Our first real rain of this season came with large marble sized hail so the south wall is now pock-marked.  It doesn't look bad so will leave it until the fall...or later.

The CEMENT stucco-it cracks as stucco does, you repair it it cracks somewhere else.  The only issue with that is you are never sure how much water is getting to the bales and being trapped in the bales.  Our first strawbale house was completely cement stucco on the outside and I always worried about that.

What I would do differently-extend the south overhang or put a roof over the south patio.  That's what we will probably do eventually.

The plaster on the N, E and most of the W side looks just as it did the day it was applied-absolutely no worries there.

Is there a company that makes adobes near oroville?  That's how we got our clay.

American Clay-pretty but Ka-CHING!

Judy

Hi Judy.  I think fibermesh added to the stucco will help prevent cracking.   Not natural but works well.  Natural -- try the barber shop floor --hair.

Our first earth plaster wall with a decent mix of clay sand  cement lime, is still doing well - south side.  Other ones with out the sand did not do so well.

I saw the American Clay and Judy is right.  If I remember right it's for spreading over sheetrock to give it a look, not as a replacement for earth plaster.

Glenn, I like your idea of adding the fiber concrete to the mix.  Still, I'll plan on patching.  Hey, I've gotten used to that working with Microsoft.

"Drew, when are you going to apply the Service Pack to the walls?  We're getting soaked!"

"Be still or I'll stop supporting House XP!"

What ever you do, don't upgrade your earthplaster walls to Vista. 

I don't think it is possible to get decent support-- unless they have a Vista Earthplaster wall support team in India.

Here is the Fiber Mesh info.  http://www.fibermesh.com/product.aspx?ID=2184

Our local concrete company would sell it to me at about $6 for a 1 lb bag I think - you could open the bag and throw a hand full  into your earth plaster mix - or stucco etc.  It really reinforces things.

American Clay http://www.americanclay.com/   a New Mexico company

dealer
http://thesolar.biz/Clayote_Clay_Plaster.htm

It's good to talk with you all again!  Since we're not actively building (but are you ever finished?) I don't get here as much but do check in to see other's progress.

My earthen plaster has not cracked at all, well maybe a little.  Good mix of clay, sand and finely chopped straw sifted through 1/4 inch screen makes a beautiful mix.

Repair isn't that bad; I love working with the plaster so it's a chance to slow down and "be one with the mud"  ;D

Our dog sheds sos much I should be keeping all that hair.

Judy

I'm still seeing the high-end cars in Silicon Valley, including the occasional Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Cannelloni.  I have to imagine that they are mostly leased or millstones around the necks of the guys who bought them and can't afford the brake jobs anymore.

If ever there was a time to build your own house, I think this is it.  I'll likely have to hold onto my mortgaged house longer than I thought until I can sell it.  Maybe rent it if I can.  I dunno.  It's all spreadsheetable.

My wife is off at St. John's in New Mexico getting her graduate degree in Liberal Arts.  It's an utterly useless degree to the HR recruiters (She's a systems analyst, not a teacher) but invaluable to a human being.  What do YOU want to be now that you're grown up?  Anyway, she'll spend 8 weeks every summer for 4 summers in Santa Fe.  She has a dorm room about the size of a monk's cell.  She writes to me, "I have only one of the most utilitarian tools.  Sure, someone cooks for me, but everything else is at a bare minimum. I am loving this.  I can live on our farm in a trailer and our lodge."

Our farm will be a bit bigger than her dorm room if you count the 20 acres outside as part of it.  There's still the question of whether you are comfortable with less, or perhaps even crave it.  Less means fewer things to fix, fewer things to burn in a wild fire, all of that.  It also means less change in our assets' perceived value when the market changes.  That can be good or bad depending on where you stand, but it's a lot to worry about.

At least I won't have to vacuum the grass.

Drew, let me get this right -- you sent your wife away to live in a monastery to teach her to live without worldly goods so she will be able to live with you on the farm? hmm


Good job.  I'll bet you could talk the leg off a chair. :)

That's what it means to be a Consultant, Glenn.  I would have been an attorney but for this horrible birth defect called a heart.   ;D

That's rough Drew, but you are probably a better person for it. [crz]

"she'll spend 8 weeks every summer for 4 summers in Santa Fe."

I'm opening another window and Googling St John's right now

Judy
(Will plaster for space to park the Airstream in Cali  :D)

Quote from: jwv on July 15, 2008, 08:05:21 PM
"she'll spend 8 weeks every summer for 4 summers in Santa Fe."

I'm opening another window and Googling St John's right now

Judy
(Will plaster for space to park the Airstream in Cali  :D)

OK, I thought St John's was familiar-one of the schools following a Great Books curriculum.  Wow, does that sound like something to do when I grow up-oh wait, maybe that's now!  I tried to get my sons interested in Deep Springs (http://www.deepsprings.edu).  Their response;  "Mom, that's a hippie school!  You should go there"  Isn't it funny how others see you.  J

edited to fix url gk

I could swear that Deep Springs looks like Saline Valley.;

I wonder where my kids will want to send me.  I'd better be nice to them.  Maybe a little less ditch digging and stuff...   :-\

Quote from: Drew on July 17, 2008, 02:37:28 PM
I wonder where my kids will want to send me.  I'd better be nice to them. 

Worry more about when they want you to come and live with them.  That's scary! [shocked]

I've already left instructions.  My home care givers will be called "ranch hands".

"Dusty, roll me over to that pen.  Now move the pen.  Are those feeders full?  Okay, good.  Go get yourself some chow."

I'm unemployed.  Again.  Well, I'm getting used to it.  I'll probably be working again in a week or two, but until then...

Dan is back home from being at school for 2 months.  We were in our room.  She was getting ready for work.  I was on the floor doing yoga.  Yeah.  I love California.

"I don't want to go to work," she said, "I'm tired of working."

"Mrmmrmrm," I said.  I was in Pigeon Pose with my forehead on the floor and knee under my chin.

"What?" she asked.

"Mama, take this badge offa me...  I cain't use it anymore...  It's gettin dark, too dark to see... Feels like I'm knockin' on heaven's door."

"You're an a**hole."

There was a cold snap in Palermo and the temperature was down to 92.  I decided to go up and lay out a test line on the new irrigation system.  Here's Drip Line Alpha.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/100_1145.jpg)

It's 200' of poly tube with 5 1 gph drippers at the far end.  At the near end is a filter, anti-siphon, and timer.  I ran it and it didn't blow apart.  The idea is to start as cheap as possible and improve it where I need to.

No, the real idea was to get the hell out of the house and do something, anything with the place.

Here's the line going north toward Roberto's place.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/100_1146.jpg)

The tank at the top is 200 gallons.  The timer will drip 5 gallons per day for 40 days minus leakage.  If it doesn't turn to steam maybe I'll get a green spot.

While I was filling the tank I shoveled dirt into the trench over the exposed PVC line.  Unfortunately I had taken all my spades back home and only had a trenching shovel.  The dirt was pretty hard, too.  It was hot.  So I shoveled and shoveled.

"Man, it's hot," said I to myself.

"I don't feel so good. I should stop."

"But I only have 10 more yards to that rock."

"Maybe if I barf I'll feel better."

"Maybe you'll look stupid when they find you passed out providing shade to a couple of rattlers."

"I'm almost ... done..."

"Maybe if I barf I'll feel better."

The temperature is supposed to get to 106 for the next few days.  I think I'll stay in Pacifica.

Anyway, I don't remember doing this before, but here's a Google map of the place.  I can't get the iFrame to work, but it's pretty cool.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114019495688590192627.0004349bef44e4c3a9876&ll=39.412457,-121.490019&spn=0.003129,0.004699&t=h&z=18 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114019495688590192627.0004349bef44e4c3a9876&ll=39.412457,-121.490019&spn=0.003129,0.004699&t=h&z=18)

As soon as the temperature drops below 90 (or even 93) we're going to start the framing on the straw bale.  I can hardly wait!

Quote from: Drew on August 26, 2008, 09:39:24 PM
  The idea is to start as cheap as possible and improve it where I need to.

Just like the railroads were first built.

Drew glad your back. Thought Dan had the key to your computer.  The weather here is down to the low 50's at night and high's in the mid 70's.  I started to insulate planning only to workthe AM til the lofts got hot then move to a cooler location. But as it turned out have been working all day up there.  Haven't posted any new pics of the straw bale lately. Interesting to see what has transpired.  Too hot to ride the bike also isn't it.

How do you run out of the room in a yoga pose, Drew.  Especially when you are in deep doodoo? hmm

"Palermo Sun Dried Drew Jerky". Has a nice ring to it.  Sounds Italian.

Nice to hear from you Drew --- even if you have put your foot in it. :)

We haven't done much with the straw bale once we got the floor cross-braced.  My dad and I disinfected the well a couple weeks back (Sulfur bacteria. Punks.).  Dave and I put in most of the PT 2x4s that will serve as the base for the bales.  We finished the floor and cross braces just before Dan went off to school and filled in most of the irrigation trench.  We took turns working then sitting under the floor chugging water.  I think we coastal types are better suited to the cooler months, but we'll adapt.

The Old Man is in Mexico but comes back this weekend.  Dan is back in town.  Dave has a job (At a hardware store!  I get the Dave's Dad Discount!) but has Sundays off.  The temperature is supposed to ease off half past September, which is perfect for the rice harvest and my bales.  The frame should go up pretty fast.  The roof will be tougher.  I can make the window and door bucks at home.  Once I get the roof done I'll get my bales in and then we get to play Big Person Legos.  We should have something to show for ourselves by the middle of October, weather, wrists, and 4H willing.

Our county is a tricky place to build (And whose isn't?).  Dan and I are thinking of building a set of four 10'x12' accessory buildings based on the small house plans with a peaked roof.  They would be oriented on the points of the compass surrounding an outdoor kitchen.  Two would be offices and one would be the outhouse with Envirolet toilet, sink, and tub/shower.  The fourth couldn't be used for sleeping in because that would be illegal so we'll have a camper instead.  Yup.  Solar panels feeding a power system in one of the offices (probably not the outhouse).  Gray water system for the outhouse.

Minimum footprint, minimum permitting.  Just a thought.

And John, it's been foggy here in Pacifica/San Francisco for weeks.  It's actually going to be nice enough to ride tomorrow.  I think I'll ride over the bridge with the rest of the tourists.

Hey Drew, great to hear from you again, I missed your stories!  Gave me quite a few chuckles  ;D

It was Dan's birthday weekend so we did what Dan wanted to do.

"Let's go to the farm and work on the lodge!" she said.  Man, I'd marry her all over again.

So we got a good day's work in on Saturday (Well, as good as you get at 95 degrees) and were sitting up top in our camp chairs reading our books by battery-powered light.  We heard some rustling in the trees to the north, over near Roberto's place.  I turned off the light to see if we could get a better look by star and moonlight.  The noise stopped.  I turned the light back on and we got back to our reading.

Then the rustling started up again, and this time it was coming up the hill to where we were near Casa Guacamole.  It sounded like deer, not one but a couple or so.  "Hey, this is nice," we thought and turned the light off again to see if we could see them. 

But there was no them.  There was a one.  A big one, low to the ground, black, and very big.  Did I say it was big?

"Bear!" said Dan, who took off for the casa. 

My wife grew up in Alaska.  Had she grown up in Berkeley I might have said, "Yeah, right," knowing that there are bears in California, sometimes even in the foothills.  But she was from Alaska.  She knew moose, oil pipeline permanent fund checks, long winter nights, and bears.  So I followed her to the casa.

Once inside our shed we turned to look at the big beast.  Big he was, and black!  And with a tag in his ear.  Our interloper was a steer.

Aaaanyway, here are a few pictures from Saturday's and Sunday's (Since the steer didn't eat us) work.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0081.jpg)

Here's a picture of Dan using the palm nailer on the post caps.  She's wearing eye protection, which is good.  I wonder if they make prescription eye protection so that one might, oh, perceive the difference between a bear and a steer.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0086.jpg)

Here's a picture of where we left it for the day.  We have 14 more posts to put in on the back and front walls and everything needs cross bracing at the top.  We also get to lift 4 14' 4"x6"s into the post caps on the front and back walls to form the 28' headers for the rafters to rest on.  Once we get the roof on and the base flashed we'll be ready for the bales.  I want to be able to cover them if we get early rain, or if we run late.

We started work early both days, like 6:30 on Saturday and 7:00 on Sunday and worked until about noon when the heat got to be pretty rough.  Living on the coast doesn't make us very heat tolerant.  I bet it will get a lot better once we're up here for good.  Until then its early mornings and movie theaters in the afternoon.

This is the thread I was thinking about...posted in the other one.   Drew -- told our friends Friday night to watch what you are doing - they want something similar.

Looking great, Drew.  The bad bears have tags in their ears -- that way if they eat you the warden will know which one it was.  [crz]

One more thing, Drew.  Whether it's a bear or a steer......don't try to milk it. d*

I always get a kick out of reading Drew's stories. Good job Drew.

Sassy and I also wait impatiently for the latest update ..

Way to go, Dan!  I'm with you...  when Glenn isn't working on other things, I'd rather be working on something for our cabin than doing much of anything else... 

You guys are making good progress!  Drew, you are quite the story teller...   8) 

You folks are great and a wonderful inspiration!  The encouragement and advice is invaluable.

I'm at home today reading through John D. Wagner's book on house framing to get ready for the rafters.  I'm okay with the math and glad that someone figured out how to make a carpenter's square so incredibly useful.  I still get hit with the occasional vocabulary word that is so basic that no one defines it anywhere that I can find on Google.  To wit:

Crown Edge:  Is that the edge of a rafter that invariably bows slightly up, or perhaps the edge where the grain arcs toward like the lower case "n"?  Am I even close?

I'm hoping to go back up this week to get more things ready for the coming weekend.  Gas prices be darned, we have a rainy season coming and we need a roof!  :)

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0078.jpg)

Here's another picture of our heroine.  Our combined Northern European roots are very grateful to the makers of SPF 50.

And that's my new saw.  I loves my saw...

Quote from: Drew on September 08, 2008, 01:01:52 PM

Crown Edge:  Is that the edge of a rafter that invariably bows slightly up,

Correct! :)  That is it boes up if you install it that way.   ;D

Good evening all.
Introductions first I guess...I'm an Alberta cattle rancher/grass farmer(that's in Canada), with plans for an off the grid Earth-Sheltered home next spring. Just wanted to say Drew that reading through this thread has been a ball of laughs, and also very informative.

Had to chuckle at someone's comment on 16" of rain being considered dry. 12 is our annual average. But, then again, there's those amazingly repetitious 6 months every year that find us under a blanket of white, either cussing the man who devised the scheme to sell natural gas, or praising the cave-dweller who discovered fire as a heat source.

Oh and Drew, love your idea for Organic goods....we're working towards having all of our 2500 acres certified. Makes it alot easier to justify your marketing claims for grass-finished beef to the Hippies and their Dells. :)

Take care folks, look forward to reading more of your posts and following your progress.

w* to the forum, PureCountry.  Drew is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.  Looking forward to hearing of your project too.

We know you do stuff there, Drew, but how come we only see Dan working? hmm

Wiseman say, "Only train workers to work, not run camera." ;D

But, but, but, I'm Management!  :o

Funny, you don't think of taking a picture when you've nailed the last of 20 post caps, but put one of those things in the air and it's a Kodak moment!  Besides, I think Dan looks better in the picture than me anyway.  Well, except for my boots, maybe.

Welcome to the forum, PureCountry.  And congratulations/good luck on getting your field certified!  The more we offer grass-fed options to the market, the better off we are in terms of environmental awareness, food security for our local community, and better margins for our ranchers.  Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir, but that's why we come to church, right?   :D

Most of my neighbors graze cows for the C.A.F.O.s and do it on 20-60 acre parcels.  Some I suspect might not be covering costs when you factor in winter hay bought on a "just-in-time" basis at $9+ per bale.  I think some do it to keep the grass down for fire protection.  One of them sells his beeves direct to consumers.  It's not a full time thing, but he loves it.  Best of all, he has an actual stable where I can collect manure when we start planting.

We let one neighbor's cattle out on our western end one year.  He kept them there through the rains, so the area is really pugged.  It ticks Dan off big time because it can be hard to walk on.  Maybe I can strike a deal and let them come through in the summer.  Yeah.  Put that on the list...

Anyway, I'm still without gainful employment (When your neighbor is out of work, its a recession.  When you are out of work it's a depression.), so I'm going to go up to the farm tonight and start work early tomorrow morning.  I'll try to get a picture of my sweaty, burned mug.  Maybe that man-eating steer can hold the camera.

Just a thought, with your climate, it's difficult for me to imagine the months you refer to as 'winter', as actually that, in comparison to ours. You get accustomed to things being a certain way, right? So, that said, why are they buying hay to feed their cattle? With proper management of their pastures, they could keep enough grass 'banked'(loose term) to graze them through the winter months, and not be dependent on $9 bales, $5 fuel, and $????? for equipment maintenance, depreciation, interest on investment, to say nothing for personal time and labor. Just my thoughts. We used to feed cows 200 days a year when I was a kid. When I took over the ranch, I starting making changes. Big ones. We run 275 cows, and don't own a tractor. The cows are supposed to work for us, not the other way around, as the saying goes.

So, anyhooooo, now that I've hijacked a thread.........have to ask, is your house, er, straw bale lodge up off the ground for a reason?

Self timer, Drew -- that should do it.

Okay, Glenn.  Here's a picture of me.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/IMAG0089.jpg)

Working?  Hmm.  That'll be harder.

PureCountry, I know what you're talking about.  I don't want to second guess my neighbors' business, but I agree with you and would probably do things differently.  No one does grass management in small paddocks that I can see.  Most of the pastures around me are 20 acres.  Some have more than one.  Few have barns. None seem to grow hay, cut it, and rake it into covered windrows.  I think what's happening is we have folks who have off-farm jobs and keep some livestock as hobby farming.  Nothing wrong with that as long as your livestock isn't stressed.

BTW, Joel Salatin from Polyface Farms came out to talk at Point Reyes Station last year.  I shook his hand and he signed my books.  When I was a kid my heroes were rock stars.  Now they're farmers.  Go figure.

Anyway, I drove my unemployed fundament up to the farm and put some work in on the place Wednesday and today.  I was by myself on Wednesday but the Old Man came out today.  I got the rafter brackets on the beams and we set them in place today.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/IMAG0092.jpg)

We marked, cut, and placed one "vanity rafter" to see how ti would go.  Our math was good but I flipped a birds mouth and a plumb cut.  Must have been tired.  I'll get to fix it next time.

Dan and I are going up on Saturday to true it all up and put in the rest of the posts and cross braces (There will be 20 posts in all).  The rafters will go in once we're all trued up.

Hey, Glenn.  I'm going to use stucco over chicken wire on the bales.  The bales will butt right up against the posts.  Do I want to flash or house wrap the posts before I apply stucco?  I'll staple the chicken wire to the posts first, but I would like to have a strong tie in to the bales and stucco.  Your opinion?

PureCountry, we decided to go with post and beam construction to avoid a slab foundation.  I don't have the skills to pour one and I wanted to avoid the cost.  We don't have frost heave so it was a viable option for us.

Glenn I think this is an imposter as I don't see the skimpy biking suit or the cowboy boots either.  ;)

This thread is really fun to keep track of.  I think straw bale construction is fascinating.  I've heard of folks trying it in Western Washington, but I didn't have the sand to try it myself. 

Good for you!  [cool]

I agree, John.  The last time we saw a picture of Drew, I'm sure the boots were much more pointed and he was dressed for success.  These look like working man boots...except for being up on the table.  Very manly tread there, Drew.  I am going to get Vibram soles on my next shoes.

BTW, you are looking well, Drew.  Hard work must agree with you.

QuoteHey, Glenn.  I'm going to use stucco over chicken wire on the bales.  The bales will butt right up against the posts.  Do I want to flash or house wrap the posts before I apply stucco?  I'll staple the chicken wire to the posts first, but I would like to have a strong tie in to the bales and stucco.  Your opinion?

The posts should be fine as they will be dry -- If your bales get wet you have problems anyway.  As I remember and it looks like from the pix that the posts are inside the row of bales.

For a good tie - how about galvanized barb wire stapled with big fence staples or screwed to the posts and brought through the bales to the outside chicken wire to be threaded in to it or wired on or even clipped on with hog rings.  Leave plenty of extra - maybe a foot or two to catch in the outside stucco.

You may want to mask the posts to keep cement off of them if you are worried about it.

I like the idea about the barbed wire, Glenn.  I even have some left over from some fencing we did.

You're right.  This is a "bale wrap" design with the roof being borne by the frame, not the bales.  The posts are on the inside.  I'm concerned about the axiom where we flash when we change materials (stucco to wood in this case). So it sounds like its not a problem on the inside, and my only concern would be splashing stucco on my pretty posts, right?  I envision laying stucco on the internal walls to half the depth of the posts (covering the outboard-nailed cross braces).  I can mask the posts while I'm trowling to serve as a guide and to keep the posts clean, then remove the masking when I'm done.  But the stucco will come in contact with the posts and cross braces.  Is that what you're talking about?

While working yesterday I got a call from a headhunter about another contract they want to submit me for.  Given the way these folks operate I'll have another week or so if I get the contract.  Dan and I are going back up tonight.  Today it's chores around the house I won't want to do Sunday.

And those are tactical boots, supposedly the same kind SWAT officers wear.  They keep the snakes off and are good at kicking lumber into place.  The hat comes from CCOF.  Yeah, I'm trying to get my butt kicked for Christmas.

I don't have any worries about where dry concrete and wood come together. 

The barb wire can tie the braces and everything into the stucco and bales if you like.

G/L on the job.  We'll be watching.

They also have barbless wire. Same as barbed just without the barbs. Might be easier to work with.

The barbs help with the reinforcement - stops a bit of the slipping, although the barbless is twisted.  He'll probably get Dan to do it anyway. ::)

Dan says, "I always do all the work anyway..."

Aaanyway, we had a really productive day at the farm today.  We got almost half the rafters in and most, if not all (more on that later) of the posts.  Here's a picture.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0096.jpg)

We hung a tarp over the rafters we did to give us a little shade.  Until then we'd run under the floor to get out of the sun for a bit.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0104.jpg)

There I am knockin' back the Pelagrino like it was water.

There's still some cross bracing and the rest of the rafters and nails to put in.  I also get to do the door and window bucks and do the flashing on the bale base.  I'm planning to go back up and work on it Wednesday and Thursday to get us ready for finishing the rafters on Sunday.

I'm hoping to finish before the permit expires (minor concern) and the rains come (major concern). I'll put together a plan for protecting the bales if I don't have the place dried in before the rain comes, but I'd rather just be done.

Hey, I have another question for you learned folks.  In my design I have four more posts to support the front and back beams at the ends.  They will come  to about 2' from the end of the beam.  Here's a picture of what I have without the post at the top...

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0108.jpg)

And the bottom...

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0109.jpg)

I have the same thing at all four corners.

As you can see, without the post I would have about 4' of unsupported 2x8 rafters on 24" centers (i.e., one more in the middle and one more on the end - I haven't put the rafters in yet.).  With the post I would have support in the middle under the rafter that is not on the end.  That would leave only 2' unsupported.  My question is this:  Do I need that post or can I let that 4' section of 4"x6" beam stay unsupported? 

I could do a cross brace.  I would prefer not putting in the post because I would have to notch the bales at every corner.

So waddaya think?

I don't think it is a problem, Drew.  You don't have a snow load there do you?

A 45'd diagonal brace at the top like you have at the bottom would help.  I'm speaking as a guy who does stuff without asking if that's of any use as regards to the quality of my advice.

Nice pix, Drew.  Looking very countrified.

...and, great progress too, Drew.

Drew if it were mine I would do the 45 brace.  But what do I know.  Here anything in a bale we feed to the cows or spread it in the barn for them to lay on.  ;D

People don't live in bales in WV, John? hmm

No if it is not pallet houses it is barns. If not that they usually find a cave. No that's not right that is where they put their still's.  Anyway I don't recall seeing anyone building with them on a permanent basis. 

Drew I'm just a dumb plumber looking at this but what sort of bracing will you use to give shear support to the walls? Will the bales and stucko do it? I can't imagine those little angle braces at the bottoms of the posts being enough to meet code.

Hi ScottA,

The bales will be tied into the posts and the stucco will go over the bales and posts.  I have the numbers in a notebook, but the stucco provides plenty of shear support.

Dumb plumber.  That's funny.  I remember standing in the hardware store looking for parts for my irrigation timing system.  3/4" MIPT to 5/8" FIPT with a hose and a MILF, and a, oh man...  That rafter I screwed up puts in stark relief my weakness in spatial perception.  Right.  Left.  Male to female transitions.  And this is just the basic stuff.  :o

I just finished soldering a charge controller cable for my PV cell and Xentrex battery.  The PV cell charges the battery just fine, but drains it once the sun gets low.  Now I've added the controller and it won't do that.  Little by little we improve our lot.

I'm planning the work for Wednesday and Thursday.  I'm going to do the drip sill work John R showed me some months ago.  Well, at least part of it since the flashing is on order.  I'm also going to build the window and door bucks.  I also have my aluminum tape for the irrigation line risers.  There's also a few hundred nails I can pound in but I might wait for Dave on Sunday for most of them.  Plenty to do.

You have some weird plumbing fittings there Drew but I'll bet they come in real handy sometimes. ::)

I've come to the conclusion that its not the act of plumbing I don't like.  Its all the trips back to the store to get the "right' part, again and again and again..... d*

Quote from: considerations on September 15, 2008, 12:53:40 AM
I've come to the conclusion that its not the act of plumbing I don't like.  Its all the trips back to the store to get the "right' part, again and again and again..... d*

Part of the problem many folks run into with plumbing is first knowing what fittings are readily available. It also helps to understand the difference between pipe threads, compression fittings and flare fittings, plus the different types of glueable pipes. Add in PEX and it does get interesting at times. I always find it helpful to draw out schematic drawings.

I do them in my head -- even correct previous plumbers mistakes  in my head (left -right- hot -cold).

You don't want to go there though.  It's a scary place. [crz]

In all fairness though, I do make notes of necessary parts when going through my mental drawings.  I just completed re-plumbing an entire house where the water was eating the copper - down to paper thin and cracking.  Going to be replacing the rotted floor, joists  - wall openings etc. next.

No pictures today, but it's not for lack of progress.  I got about half the flashing on the bale base (Thanks again, John!) and we got all the rafters in place.  The last ones out on the ends involved a lot of ladder moving and very careful, mindful movement.  I will say that I did not overreach my abilities.  I did however come up to the edge of them and treated the moment with great reverence.  I am also glad for the time I spend doing yoga.  There were some moves over headers that were possible and safe because of it.

Man, I do not like heights.  I learned to fly a paraglider to get over it.  No, not a parasail where you get dragged behind a boat on your vacation.  This is the cousin to the hang glider with ground school, certification, and foot launching off of very tall mountains.  Didn't help much up there.

I'm working this week so I can't go up on Tuesday.  My green pickup was still caked in bugs and road dust in the client's parking lot.  We're going back up Friday night to work Saturday.  I don't have any work lined up for next week so maybe I can get back up there again.  I don't know if we'll beat the rain, but we're sure going to try.  There are also tarps, and the rain won't be out in earnest until December.  Sez here...

My neighbor came out to the work site on Sunday to take a look.  After joking, "Naw, naw, Drew! You got it all wrong!" he asked me where I got the plans.  I told him I got the foundation and floor plan from a place on the internet but the rest of the design was mine with some checking with some pros (That would be you fine folks).  I think he was a little surprised.  Nobody is building for themselves out there anything bigger than a pump house.

There's another neighbor up there who's really encouraging about our project.  I like the way he put his place together and I bet he'll do a straw bale one of these days too.

Anyway, it's going to be weird when my face goes back to white and my hands stop aching this week.  If I get too lonely I'll mash my hand with a fry pan or something.

Were just glad we could have a little part in helping out, Drew.  Always nice to see someone succeed at something that would be a bit harder if no one helped with ideas.

In repayment we get your fine running commentary on your progress and we enjoy that.  Just don't take any of thos flying lessons from the top of that ladder.

Why do I get pictures of the Karate Kid when I think of you up there.  You didn't say anything about Karate. d*

Why do I have this cartoon bubble of Drew hanging from that last rafter with his paragliding stuff on...just in case? ;)

You're doing a great job.  Congrats.

Hehehe...  I remember the Kid in the last scene in the Crane Stance with a busted knee.  Yep, that's my knee!

My paraglider harness is built like a padded car seat with straps and risers coming off it.  On the rigth side is my emergency chute.  I've never had to "throw" it.  I don't know 100% that it would work if I did.  Hmm.  Maybe I should put it on my tool belt.

We had Dan , the Old Ma, and me up on Saturday getting the sheathing through the rafters up on top of the place.  Putting stops on the low end of the rafters to keep the sheathing from sliding off before we nail it is harrowing in itself.  2 fot overhangs look good on paper, lousy rom 16' in the air.

Well anyway, here's the second course of the sheathing. You better believe I am the one taking the picture. Aside from working far off the end of a ladder, I really don't like sheathing work. My beams are all marked like a robot did them.  huricane clips to hold the bird mouthed rafters are in perfect position.  Then we add the wood.  Most are flat, but enough crowned, fork-screwed rafters make lining up my sheathing a real pain.  I straighten out to the square of the roof.  I do my best with the turns in the wood and plan to block a minimal number of places.  It will be covered by sheathing and whatever I'll us for a ceiling, but I would have appreciated either a little more cooperation or better technique on my  part to fix it.

Ah well.  The roof will not have water problems when I'm done and I'll get a little bit smarter along the way.

The air was cooling off but we still got to 95 in the afternoon.  Here's Dan near our basement dining room.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/IMAG0119.jpg)

And here's the Old Man up  on the roof doing the sheathing nailing.  Some guys will do anything if you hide their blood pressure pills.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/IMAG0131.jpg)

The place is starting to look like a house.  Dan and I talked about putting in a loft bed that would look like a queen size bunk bed over a desk.  Might save some space and add some entertainment for an sleep walkers.

And here's a picture of our first solar system.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/IMAG0135.jpg)

That's a 15 w. battery charger cell filling up my Xantrex 1.1 Kw pack that can run the well pump and most of the tools.  I bought a DC extension cord fro Radio Shack and soldered a 7-amp charge controller I had between the ends.  Now the battery won't drain when the sun goes down.  Tomorrow the world.

I've got sources for my straw bales now.  One is close in on Loan Tree Road in Oroville, but he hasn't had a chance to get on the phone with me.  The other guy is in Williams and is about 60 miles out.  He wants $4 a bale (I need about 200) and about $200 in fuel to bring them to me.  He can even store them for me for free until spring if I can't get the roof on in time.

And if that happens I'll spend the winter starting my orchard and my latrine.  And a Jamba Juice.

Careful up there Drew.  That last step's a doozie.

Dan looks happy in this picture.  Is it because you are working? heh

My favorite is getting the last screw in the metal sheets at the very outside corner of the roof.  I didn't have to do it myself, but got good and worried just watching.  :-\

Looks like your weather is holding.  Excellent.

We've been up at the place every weekend since the end of August and the progress has been pretty good.  We're taking this weekend off because of the Red Flag warning and some stuff we have to do with Dave's applications for college. 

Anyway, here's a picture of Dan up on the roof nailing in sheathing.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0140.jpg)

I still get to finish the drip sill flashing, including the corners.  The sheathing is nearly done.  We have a few of the 4'x4' sections to do and the 2' sections on the top edge.  Then it's drip edge, felt, and shingles.

A question for you learned people.  We are not going to beat the rain.  We plan to get the roof done and put the bales in come spring.  I'll tarp the studs and keep the rain out somewhat but I don't want to make a giant sail out of my lodge for the wind to knock around.  Water evaporates and one season should not be too bad. Is this reasonable?

And the roof.  The sheathing is OSB with the foil underside (I got a deal from my man Dean at the building supply store).  How bad is it if rain gets on it through the season?  Should I put the roof felt on it and stop there (before putting on the shingles)?  Should I leave the sheathing bare and let it dry out in the summer?  Am I now committed and need to get the shingles up ASAP?

Here's a picture from the front.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0141.jpg)

If we can button this up for the winter, we can do some work on other projects in the place that we need soft ground for.  The orchard gets started this winter.  I am also thinking about starting the shower house.

This has all been very educational.  I mentioned in another thread that we had water coming into our Bay Area house around the sliding glass doors.  After learning a bit here I noticed that the swelling in the moulding happened under the bolts that held the narrow deck to the house over the bottom floor sliding glass doors.  In short, the holes the bolts go through have become a bit larger than the bolts themselves over time and are now providing a great place for rain to get in.  I think I can cut into the ceiling next to the bolts and replace them one by one (So the deck doesn't fall off).  This is much less invasive than taking off the siding from the outside.  It needs a little more planning, like how do I make sure the holes don't change shape again, but I think I have a reasonable start on the problem.  I no doubt will impose upon you folks again when we get to that.

Anyway, I slept until 8 this morning and feel great!  I'm going to get some more coffee!

What's a "red flag warning," Drew?   BTW, ya got lots of chemtrails above you  ::) 

I think you may need some 2x6's from the floor to the roof for more diagonal bracing (I double checked with Glenn) - otherwise you have a good lever point low on your posts, which you don't want...   d*  I just finished my big cup of coffee  c*

Great progress - I see you still have Dan doing the work  :D

I would put 2x6s - maybe 2x4's  at about a 45 or so  from top plate down to the bottom in 2 directions - each wall, Drew.  The bracing you have there would help especially after the bales and stucco are there but leave the posts to flex in the high winds now.  PEG is best on this stuff.

OSB doesn't like water much and swells.  30 lb felt or that Titanium Felt Redover talks about could be good - well nailed with the plastic cap nails.  For the floor you may want to drill drain holes where the water collects and sweep it out when possible.

Drew I might have missed it but is your subfloor OSB or treated (Advantex).  I would worry just as much as I would about the roof if it is just OSB.  Maybe get the gang and paint rollers to give it a good coat of something that will shed the water.  The OSB will actually gain 1/4 to 1/2 of it's thickness if it gets wet. IMO if left over the winter it could be a nightmare to work on this next spring.

I am like you in regards to the tarps and covering things up.  They usually will not hold up especially if you are prone to wind in your area.  The only problem with floors is the partitions walls and of course the flat(not being pitched).  So water will stand on the floor. 

Glenn and Sassy, are you talking about running boards from the top plate to the sole plate or from the top plate to the middle of the floor?  Sounds like the former.  And if so, what about using Simpson strap directions on each wall?

The floor is OSB, John.  I don't remember if it's treated, but I'll look.  If not we'll paint it with something like you said and do the drain holes.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Top to sole plate right along your posts diagonally.

Simpson straps would work diagonally also, Drew.  I thought of it also but failed to mention it -- I think I had already posted and got lazy.

I'll chime in too regarding the OSB.

H₂0 + OSB = BN!!!      (BN!!! = Bad News)

During the week or so that it rained every day on our OSB floor we were lucky enough to be on site full time. I have no idea how many times we swept the water off. Thanks to using some tarps we kept the amount of water that sat for any time to a minimum. Still there are a few small areas that flaked slightly. I know where they are but nobody else could probably tell. Well, PEG could, MTL.

However the three sheets of OSB that were temporarily on top of the ceiling joists as a work platform for rafter work did not get swept off. They soaked up water like a sponge and then when the sun came out they baked. The edges are about 3/16" thicker than they are supposed to be; 7/16" (from the swelling). There is very much surface flaking/separating. Those sheets are not much good for anything at present. I think we'll slice them up with the chain saw and give the burn barrel a good workout.

If the floor can't be protected by completing the walls then you need to give it a good coating of paint and say some prayers. As for the roof OSB, #30 roofing paper or some synthetic with a lengthy UV rating would be advised, as others have also commented.

Best of luck.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on October 11, 2008, 05:27:34 PM
Simpson straps would work diagonally also, Drew. 

Remember, Simpson straps work in tension, not compression, as lumber can. Therefore metal straps must be installed in an "X" or "V" configuration to be of any use.

We started buttoning up the place for the winter over the weekend.  We finished the roof sheathing and spread some 6 mil plastic over it with some lathe to hold it down.  While not the easiest thing to do in an afternoon breeze, it bodes well for the roofing felt work we'll do come spring.

The flooring is untreated, so we put on some water seal and will drill a few holes to let the water drain.  I tossed a handful of marbles on the floor a couple times to look for a low spot and could not find one.  Darn!   ;D

We had all five of us up this weekend; Dan, Dave, Robin, the Old Man, and me.  Robin is a junior in high school and is taking her Independent Living class.  The class assignment was to carry around this fake baby for four days, unless you already had a real one.

Here is my granddaughter, Ashley.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0151.jpg)

Back in the Day we'd have to carry around eggs or a sack of flour.  Now these things are baby robots.  They have a computer in them that programs them to cry at random intervals.  Well, not so random.  They cry at night.  Every 15 minutes.  And there was already something wrong with Robin's baby, like a low battery or computer virus or something.  So there we are Saturday night crashed out on the Old Man's livingroom floor when this sound erupts.  It is a cross between a spiraling 747 and Darth Vader getting it in prison.

"Robin!  Your baby!" we'd say for the fourth time that night.  Robin would then need to select a key from a chain to plug into the robobrat.  "Feed?"  No.  "Burp?"  No.  "Attention?" No. "Change Diaper?" No.  "Feed?"  No.  "Feed?"  No.  "Feed?" Yes!  Ahhh...

GGggRRRROOOwwwrreeehhhhhhOOOWWW!!!!

"Robin!  Your baby!"

Little Ashely has sensors on her too.  Unlike the low-tech baby Dave had to drag around (and he did), this one needs its head supported (I tell you, this nation coddles its prosthetic youth.).  It can also tell if it gets shaken too much.  It can also tell if it is being left alone too much, at which point it begins to bellow.  So we parked Ashely next to one of the studs and would jostle her head whenever we walked by.  I was thinking of parking her on top of the generator, but having her smell of exhaust might be considered abuse.  That's what my parents did with me and I turned out okay.

Here's Hippie Dave putting in some of the last nails on the post caps.  I tried to calculate how much metal we have in this building between nails and Strong-Ties.  Now that we have the Simpson Strap in I am pretty sure that no one of us could lift all of the metal at once.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0152.jpg)

Here's Robin with Ashley at the restaurant last night.  She's pretty well behaved in a restaurant.  Ashley was pretty good too.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0156.jpg)

I'll go back up on Wednesday to work with the Old Man on buttoning down the edge of the tarp and drilling the holes in the floor.  We're also going to wrap the rest of the materials in plastic and put them under the floor (Out of the way of the holes).  That should keep it out of the way of the wind and rain for the season.

Sounds like you are near ready for the possible rain season, Drew. 

Your granddaughter seems to confirm my belief that all babies are born ug.....   I mean not always pretty.

Uhhhmmmm - I'll probably catch it for that but truth be known, I'm not even sure that I was pretty when I was born. ::)

Fortunately many of the babies turn out pretty like your Robin.  The rest turn out like me. [crz]

Thanks for the great update, Drew.

Hehehe.  When Robin was born she looked like a cross between Yoda and Rosanne Barr.  >Shudder!<

I would have liked to have had the bales up and stuccoed, but I've resigned myself to waiting until the spring.  It will be good to not worry about rain on the bales when we put them in.  It also won't hurt to spread the expense out a bit.  This whole financial crisis has freaked out my customers and I've had a little more time to myself than I had planned.

This winter we'll plant the fruit trees and dig down the high spots on the access roads.  Drink hot tea and contemplate the impermanence of all things.  It's all good.

rofl

WTG Drew.  Got more patience than me.  I would (or am going to) still be working in the snow it looks like.  But hey it should be inside ;D. 

Glenn I guess it is true that you can't have good looks and be smart too. ;)

If only I could have either one. d*

"Back in the Day we'd have to carry around eggs or a sack of flour.  Now these things are baby robots.  They have a computer in them that programs them to cry at random intervals.  Well, not so random.  They cry at night.  Every 15 minutes.  And there was already something wrong with Robin's baby, like a low battery or computer virus or something.  So there we are Saturday night crashed out on the Old Man's livingroom floor when this sound erupts.  It is a cross between a spiraling 747 and Darth Vader getting it in prison."

We lived with these "babies" during our kids teen years.  My DW actually dropped the daughter's "baby" down off a set of bleachers.

The middle daughter is now a high school swim coach.  She finally outlawed these "babies" in her presence.  She told the kids she would rather miss practice then to be distracted by them.

Robin went back to school and turned her baby into the Independent Living teacher.  The message back was, "Good job.  But you can see that you are not ready for a baby now, right?"

"Absolutely, Ms. Levine," said Robin, "But my mom is ready for a granddaughter."

It's a little freaky.  I think I'd better head this off and get another dog before things get out of hand...

Won't be going to the farm this weekend.  I have a gig instead on Saturday night at a Halloween party.  That should be a little safer.  I can put that chicken wire to good use around the stage.

hmm, grandkid means SIL or SO, Drew.  Are you ready?

Better get a recording of that night crying and barfing and play it every few hours.

But this is my beautiful, perfect daughter, Glenn.  I'm betting on the virgin birth route.

That's the good thing about moving out to the farm.  "Sure!  We'd love to have you and the kids for the weekend!  The rattlesnakes are almost gone!  What?  Next weekend instead?"

Dave had a girlfriend for ten months, then they broke up.  He's happy to have his camping and tree house building time back.  He's looking at colleges now, including University of Alaska at Fairbanks.  "It has a good conservation sciences program," I tell him, "And I hear those Palin women are easy."

d*

QuoteI'm betting on the virgin birth route.

I'm betting you're dreaming.

I actually thought the Palin women were alright until they became soiled by politics...

Drew, this lady has a few thoughts Robin may want to consider...

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/ClaraMeadmore.jpg)

Meet the 105-year-old virgin

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1788363.ece

You know, for 105 she looks damn good... :)  Maybe she really does have a point.  Possibly someone could tell us? ::)

Some of this might be off topic, but it's time to put something here.

The plastic cover on the roof OSB and the water treatment on the flooring are doing the trick.  That, and Mother Nature hasn't seen fit to wash and blow dry us out to Paradise.  Whatever it is, I'll take it.  This week we're getting a gentle rain right on top of my field.  Easy, now.  Eaasyyy.

The lodge is buttoned up for winter but we've still been at it.  Dan and I got accepted into the Freshman Farmer program at Peaceful Valley Farm Supply (www.groworganic.com (http://www.groworganic.com)).  We and our four fellow freshman will be blogging about our experiences in growing our farm, making videos, posting financials, and generally providing marketing content for PVFS.  In exchange we get favorable pricing, access to peers who are trying to do the same thing (I think I've seen that somewhere else before), and marketing for when we start our CSAs, go to the farmers' markets, and so forth.  One big advantage I see is that it helps keep us on a schedule.  There's nothing like a deadline to focus a man's mind.

The blogging festivities haven't started yet, but I'll mention it when they do.  Meanwhile Dan and I spent the day yesterday in the home office doing a lot of planning and whiteboarding (That's like waterboarding where you draw pictures of business processes until your prisoner either confesses or dies.).  It's a good thing to do when it's raining.  I got to finish our CCOF certification application and we came up with a set of scalable companion plant configurations and other stuff that made the day really worthwhile.

Next weekend we'll go back up and put in the last 8 trees (We put 8 citrus in a couple weekends ago) and do some work on the first field in anticipation of February planting. 

Here's the orchard.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/GEDC0030.jpg)

We've prepped 400 sf. as a test field to grow about 16 crops for the family in the first year.  We like the idea of making our mistakes on our own dime instead of holding someone's CSA money or committing to 16 weekends at a farmers' market before we work the bugs out.  In addition to our 400 sf. for test growing we'll put in a cover crop for another 2,200 sf. and increase by 2,400 every year thereafter. 

We're going to try out the French intensive method (Sounds like something at the video store, huh?) for growing.  We have ~5 of our 20 acres we could grow on, but keeping it close and intense means less area we have to protect from predators, less equipment for irrigation and cultivation, and less soil we have to manage.  In theory we should get vegetables for one person for a year from 100 sf. of soil.  With 7,200 sf. (not counting the alternate rotation field) at the end of year 4 we should be able to arm our own militia.

We came up with a companion plant schema that should help protect against a lot of the bugs and disease, and I configured it to make the drip irrigation really simple.  It also scales for when we go bigger.

We're looking forward to a lot of "lessons" in farming this year from Mother Nature and those pesky wabbits that are almost as big as Henry was.  As with anything, we'll get off the couch, go outside, take our lumps, learn how to dodge, and try again.  I've learned a lot in the last few years since we got this place and if I'm lucky I'm not done yet.

Drew it is nice to hear from you again.  Sounds pretty interesting but also sounds like a little  ;) work as well.  Leave time to work on your strawbale you will need someplace to get out of the rain while working as it will be a couple years til your trees are tall enough to get under  ;D. 

Thanks for the update, Drew.  Always nice to hear from you. 

Soon you will see that those rabbits will make a nice addition to your vegetable dinner, and after the nice rabbit meal, you will  likely have enough energy to try the French intensive method. :)

common Glenn, wasn't that your prom date?   No!!  Don't!!!  Put that rock down Glenn!!!!  It was only a joke!! 

That doll is creeeeeeeppppy!   We did the egg, and the flower thing.  Your place is coming together quite nicely, and I think it is probably wise to wait with the bails.  No sense trying to rush things, and end up with rotting walls.

Jens,  Glenn wouldn't throw a rock.  That is valuable building material.

Dudes, I am not that old.... but I do have enough rocks around here that a few missing wouldn't hurt too much... [waiting]

Another off-topic question for you kind folks.

Any of you have experience with electric fences?  Using them, I mean.  Not being thwarted or attacked by them.

I need to fence in a growing field to keep deer and jackrabbits out.  I'm looking at a rectangle of about 100' by 2,400'.  I could do the regular ranch fence but I don't want to drive t-posts, stretch wire, put PT posts in the dirt, etc. unless I have to.

The 100' x 2,400' won't be needed all at once, either.  I only need 100' x 600 in the first year.

So I was thinking of sinking some PT posts in some concrete inside some 5 gallon buckets.  I use these as movable fence posts.  Instead of regular fence wire I use two electrical wires: one about 9" off the ground for the rabbits and one 3' off the ground for the deer.

I've never tried to keep deer or rabbits out of anything, so I don't know if this is enough to do the trick.  Have you guys done it?

If you think this could benefit from a larger audience please let me know and I'll repost it.

Thanks!

At 9" you might singe the bunnies ears if he goes through at the right time.  Most electric fences pulse.  Usually a mesh fence is used.

I don't think Bambi will know the fence is electric.  Most deer around here just jump gracefully over the fence.  Doesn't matter if it is electric or five foot tall five-strand barbwire.

I would have to agree.  At 9", the bunnies will be doing the limbo all the way to supper.

The Deer present their own challenge.  The gardens I've seen up north have at least 8 ft. fences around them.  Some try things wuch as animal urine or dog hair.  If the deer like what they see though, there isn't much that will stop them.  From our State DNR website:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/livingwith_wildlife/fences/index.html

And:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/livingwith_wildlife/fences/index.html

very good, but they're both the same.   :-[

Around here, the only way to really stop them is about a 7 or 8' high fence-- miles around vineyard in 2 places I know.

I tried the motion sensor sprinkler thing.  Our car would set the sensor off when we drove into the yard.  That would wake the deer up who were sleeping under it with full bellies from eating the garden and they would run off. d*

We have a friend who keeps the radio blaring in the middle of the garden.. The theory behind it is that the deer don't like hanging out where their hearing is impaired, thus leaving them more prone to predators. Don't know if it really works or not.... Make sure to pick a station that your plants will enjoy. :)

I can no longer find a radio station that wouldn't make the plants stupid. d* 

DREW your fence will have to be dual purpose.  A netting material such as rabbit wire or plastic netting (similar to snow fence) on the bottom.  As others have stated the fence for the deer will have to be at least 6-8 feet.  There is an individual that is putting in an orchard near here and he has researched fence for deer.  I don't recall exactly what he said but it had to do with two or three kinds of hedging.  Apparently they do not like three demensional barriers and that is what he will try to achieve.  The next time I see him(only partime for now) I will ask him.  He hasn't figured out how to keep the bear out though.  Maybe a permit to destroy?

Others have sworn that deer do not like to enter narrow areas.  Some gardeners here instead of a square garden arraignment are going to a more narrow rectangle area and swear that it has helped.  I for one have a 48" woven wire fence for cattle and they clear it like a pole vaulter at the olympics.

They did make a tensil fence for sheep that only had support poles that touched the ground in the majority of the run with very few permanent poles.  You could drive over the non support section with a tractor and after passing it would spring back up.  Maybe something like this with a couple of hot wires and insulators might help and you wouldn't have to make all the supports post permmanent. There was a name for it but it is escaping me now.  If I think of it I will repost.  

Here is one

http://www.nixalite.com/deerfencing.aspx?gclid=CPTH7fDerZgCFSMSagodAWnyUg

The deer walked around the narrow walk around our garage to get to the garden.

They are large rodents.  Don't trust them... [waiting]

I was afraid of that.

Well, Dan and I talked about fencing and think we have a plan that will let us build on as we need it with a minimum of rework.

The fact that I am a vegetarian in no way means that I will not get medieval on any joker that wants to get at my field.   [chainsaw]

Thanks for the advice, guys.  You saved me some screwing around.

Just make sure somebody eats it Drew!  Could feed some poor family through the winter.

Drew I contacted the gentleman on the fencing,  Enclosed is his reply.  Somewhat long but I think it has alot of merit.

So, when planting a crop that deer will find more nutritional, we need to offset the increase by making them perceive the food is located in higher threat areas while increasing the difficulty with access. So, we start by putting crops in the open, at least as much as the crops can sustain. However, as we see in the pastures around your and Del's house, being in the open is hardly enough to dissuade deer from eating, especially since they can choose the safest times of day to get at it. Therefore, we can also add (1) simulated threats like audible and visual signals that scare them off (but only temporarily); fences (that make the food a lot of work to get at); and other food alternatives.

For the fence itself, I am planning on using cheap "living" fences in combination with a manmade fence. Right now, the cheapest non-deer palatable living fence I can find are canadian hemlock hedgerows which are incredibly cheaper than any manmade fence, fast growing, thicker, and taller. I suspect there might be a few more alternatives yet as I research, but the best idea is strong thick living obstacles like hedges. Deer apparently find fences that are deep to be more intimidating than those that are just high (or strong). The hedge adds depth and reinforces the manmade fence. I will probably put the hedge behind the manmade fence but close enough so that if the deer push on the manmade fence then it will touch the hedge and not have much play between the two. Obviously, it's better if the deer can't eat the living fence, and hemlock is not edible. I am not saying that eating the fence is bad, b/c I can imagine certain advantages, but I don't see any disadvantage if they can't eat the fence. THere are some cheaper edible alternatives, but to me, the cost isn't justified.

I plan to plant the living fence first. Give it time to grow a little, before adding the manmade fence. having both in place before the crops are mature is key. This establishes a pattern/habit for the deer. The deer get used to the obstacle and going around it without having any incentive (i.e., my apples) behind it. Then, I will plant the trees and protect them as usual inside the fence.

If I find out that deer are breaching this fence system, I will add a third row in front of the man made fence. Electric tape, maybe 6 feet in front of the manmande fence, again, to add the perception of greater depth. They make a lot of fence tapes that are solar powered so as to save $ and labor. tape is better (for this use) b/c electric fences that are low to the ground require greater maintenance since weeds will grow up underneath and short out the fence or trip it. A single tape will be higher, and the higher the tape, then the higher the weeds can get without worry. Deer can easily go under if they want to, but it is one additional layer to negotiate, and touching it will provide strong negative feedback.

However, that's not the true benefit to electric tape. On the tape will be baits. In my case, apple scented. Purpose: to lure the deer to the bait so they lick it. When they do, zap. The deer learn by classical conditioning (i.e, pavlov) that apple scents can hurt. So, after a few zaps, they learn that the apple scents calling them over might be painful, and it takes a lot of effort to get to the ones that didn't zap them. I would recommend baiting with the scents that are luring the deer. Your friends organic garden should use those scents, but if he can't replicate them, no worry. The deer can still learn that the tape hurts and will likely stay away from the tape inandof itself.

Finally, I will bait the deer safely. Just like the rat, go to one food source and get shocked, go to 2nd food source and get fed. Soon the rat avoids the shock and eats safely. I will put food plots away from the apple/grape crops. These food plots will reward the deer for traveling outside my fence and away from the crops I want to protect by giving them cheap crops to eat instead. So long as they are fed, they won't find the effort required to negotiate my fence worth the risk when they have easy food somewhere else. I will put the feedplants with well-covered approach paths so deer feel safe moving into and out of the feedplots. I will also keep them near water as possible to help them be efficient with feeding and watering.

From there, with State permissions, we can kill deer out of season if they still are too aggressive against apple/grapes and not just sticking to the feed plots, but I think this is not a comprehensive solution. Too many deer. The goal is really to keep the deer away from my crops. Killing them all is ridiculously futile, and the population of any adaptable animal will only morph and remain a threat. A isolated kill can help in short term, unique conditions, but I think that developing behavior patterns using fences of great depth, height, and strength constructed of manmade and living materials with solar scent-specific shock feedback will push deer to our pre-planned, free, and low risk food/water alternatives.

Thanks for the post, John.  This is some really good information.  I'll have to come up with something man made since I can't wait for a hedge to grow, at least for this season.  The depth effect is an interesting point, and one made more than once here.  I might want to move the fence as I grow my fields, or at least put gates in between them as I add on.  A hedge is harder to move.

More planning.

I looked back at my bluster about getting rough with a deer in my field.  I can't even blame it on drink or lateness of the hour, which leaves only me talking out my blue jeans.  I'm not going to cap a deer in my field.  If I see him (Which I'm not likely to) I'll run him off.  He's much easier to move when he's alive. 

Maybe what I'll end up doing is putting up a respectable, economic fence and growing a crop.  Every day it lives will be a gift.  If something gets in, figure out how it happened and protect against it.  Hiring the Swiss Guard to watch my summer squash is a sure way to stay in the red.  Besides, I have a straw bale lodge to build!

Red pepper works well too.  Washes off in the rain, though.  My grandfather had a heck of a time with deer.  He would be home most of the day with a pellet gun.  He planted the garden with a good view from his kitchen and enjoyed shooting the deer in the butt.  Not lethal and a hell of a sting.  Could be a fun game if you have children.  Goes back to the Pavlov argument.  The deer will learn eventually.

Some live traps might work for your rabbits.  You would have no trouble giving them away.  I know you are a vegetarian.  I don't know how this might effect your ethics.  But rabbits are great meat and fur.  In my area, people would line up for them. 

Also to help with both problems, there are more hunters than there is land in most areas.  People that open their lands for public hunting in our area get special tax benefits.  They can also get preferential treatment from local game wardens and law enforcement officials.  Or you could sell a hunting lease for your land.  As open space becomes more scarce this option is becoming more popular for people.

Quote from: Drew on January 28, 2009, 02:06:08 PM

  If I see him (Which I'm not likely to) I'll run him off.  He's much easier to move when he's alive. 

Just watch out.  I see this on nature channels.  I have seen deer stand their ground.  Sometimes they rather fight than flight.
http://www.sfgate.com/flat/archive/2005/10/20/news/archive/2005/10/20/state/n050930D10.html

Oh, great!  I can see it now.

"Yeah, this place used to be Drew's until he was killed."

"He was killed?  That's terrible!  I heard he was such a great guy.  A true Mensch.  How did he die?"

"Deer attack."

"Excuse me?  It sounded like you said 'Deer attack'."

"I did.  Drew was killed by a deer."

"Do you mean to tell me that the paragon of humanity that President Obama endowed a national holiday after was b**** slapped to death by Bambi?"

"It was a big deer."

"Oh, that's it.  The truth comes out.  I can't believe it!  I am totally putting my Drew commemorative plates and coin set on eBay!  What a total lamer!"

"Can I have your Drew bobble-head?"

I like the BB gun idea, though.  Maybe Dave can be my spotter while I try to land a pellet in a rump at 300 yards.  Hooah!

Poor Drew he should have been in a tree stand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWxIYX-CHFQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWxIYX-CHFQ)

I was talking to my cousin that lives in western Montana last weekend and she related a couple of methods she and her neighbors have used with some success to keep deer and elk out of their gardens.  All these worked in varying degrees for her neighbors.  They were trying to avoid building the expensive 8' tall deer fences that the elk will just lean on until they are knocked down.

Elk: 

Since they are soft footed you can lay small animal fencing down on the ground and they don't like stepping on the wire mesh.

Deer:

FishNGame developed a mesh fence that has larger openings at the bottom and smaller at the top. Supposedly it creates an optical illusion and the deer aren't sure how tall the fence is and don't like to jump it.

String several strands of 20-30lb fishing line at deer head level.  They will walk into it without seeing it and spook.

Lay down plastic sheeting, not ground cloth, the deer don't like the crackle sound and will spook.

Mike sort of sounds like a cattle guard arraignment. Might work.

Yeah, I don't know what we are going to do on our place.  We have a lot of deer and we want to plant some fruit trees along the creek.  All of the solutions seem to be either expensive or visually obstructive or both.

Mike depending on how many trees you are planting but you could use inexpensive chicken wire and three post per tree.  Form a triangle around each.  The key is finding something inexpensive for post.  My dad did exactly that.

I second red.  Deer are a big problem in every state around here.  Every person that plants fruit trees uses chicken wire until they are medium sized.

Thanks!  I have quite a few small to medium junipers to cut down so that should work for posts.  We have year round water in desert country so we get a lot of animal traffic.

There is the deer netting - black plastic 1"x1" squares- 7' high but there are 2 types - the heavy one is the only one that's any good and it's not super great but works pretty good -- just went through where it climbed to get a cucumber vine growing on the fence.  About $70 for 7' x 100'

Hey folks,

I hope all is going well with you.  We had a week of good rain over here.  While it blew away a portable greenhouse, the bracing and sheeting on the straw bale is doing it's job.  We'll be able to start laying in bales in May or so.

Meanwhile we've been putting that irrigation system to work (It will stop raining one day.  This is California.).  We have 15 fruit trees split between two sites now, plus the stand alone avocado.  The Old Man wanted it, and while I have to run a separate irrigation line, I think it will be a good tree to have. Anyway they are showing new growth after a few weeks in the ground, in spite of what is turning out to be less than optimal drainage.  No standing water, but enough clay to start my own pre-industrial civilization.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/IMAG0343.jpg)

The CCOF inspector is coming out on Thursday.  If things go well, our farm will be certified organic this spring or early summer.  Since this is our "freshman" growing year we won't have much produce for sale.  The point is to do the certification while I had the time and before I put in things that might have been inconsistent with the organic program.  Like all of us, I like to make my mistakes on the cheap whenever possible!

We got potatoes in the ground yesterday but that's about all so far since the ground is still too wet for other things.  Once the straw bale is done it will go on the Operating System Plan for crop storage.  Casa Guacamole, too.

We have a new puppy, too.  His name is Jim. 

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/IMAG0339.jpg)

He's part German Shorthair Pointer and French Bulldog.  He looks like a Labrador puppy and is pretty smart.  He gets along with the cat, which I am hoping is a good sign for discrimination between animals he can work with and those that are not welcome.  We took him to the farm yesterday and he just about popped.  I've never had a hunting breed before.  Getting a puppy now works out great since I have the time to spend with him due to my, ahem, underemployment situation.

Anyway, it's time to let Jim go out and "smell the flowers".

Nice puppy, and nice to hear from you Drew. :)

...and the clay, Drew -- your discovery of it is just in time.  We are now officially post industrial society - the unthinking majority... next stop - stone age.  .. [waiting]

Why do you think we ...

Aw, we're in the same the choir, pal.  At least we're not singing solo!  :D

So, I confess that I haven't read your whole thread, and this info may be in there but, where in CA are you?  Wife is from STockton, I am from Santa Cruz, have family in both as well as Sacto, and up in Orland is my mom.  Just curious.

Also, are you gonna be able to use your bales as load bearing walls, or are they requiring you to have a superstructure?  Do you have to use the extra special, highly compressed, Japanese bales, or just regular ones?

Hey Jens,

The farm is in Palermo, which is near Oroville.  Our house is in Pacifica.  My wife's mom is down in Felton, which is near Santa Cruz, so we go down there a lot.  My niece and nephew are in Manteca, which covers the Stocton end.  Maybe I ride behind you on the freeway, right?   :D

The structure is a bale-wrap.  We put up a 4x4 frame and will place the bales outside the frame on a base of PT 2x4s.  The bales are not load bearing (aka Nebraska style), so it's the frame holding up the roof.  It's more expensive in terms of materials, but a little easier to design and build.  Since this is our second building (our first was a 10'x12' gable roof shed), we thought it was the best choice for our skills.

These are going to be regular old 2-string rice straw bales.  They are baled by the farmer for construction so they have a regular shape, are bound tighter, and have a moisture reading of less than 12%.  Even in rice country they are not easy to find and transport...

How much are the bales costing you?  Are they from the Corning area (lots of rice fields there).  Never heard of Palermo, used to go to Manteca waterslides a lot though.  Thats one heck of a commute from Pacifica!  I think I would call Oroville the north valley, don't ya think? 

We lived in Bonny Doon for a year, worked and shopped in Felton.  Lived in Ben Lomond another year, all beautiful little mountain towns.  I don't think you'd be behind me on the freeway any time soon, we are in east Tennessee now!  I broke down in my convertable Plymouth Valient in Pacifica one night, had a bad alternator, battery ran out of juice.  2 AM, going down the hill at the north end of town without lights or engine...at least it wasn't power steering or brakes!

Hey Drew,

I love the orchard plans, especially the Avocado tree, love the pictures, keep em com'n :)

Last fall they were $4.  They were in Colusa, which is about an hour from Palermo.  He'd drive them out to my place for $200, but fuel was $ a gallon then.  I get to call him up again in April or May.  He said he'd have some stored.  I'm not looking forward to it.  The only other rice bale guy I know of there doesn't have the right size.  I guess I could deal with a farmer before he cuts and get him to make them a particular size if this guy wants to recoup some losses with me.  Maybe I'm borrowing trouble...

If you went down the hill I think you're talking about, my house is just off the top of it.  Yeah, you would have had one heck of a ride if you had power brakes you couldn't use going down Manor!

Hi Bishopknight.  Thanks for the good word!  Here's a picture of us planting the citrus (I'm the one behind the camera).  That's in what we call Orchard 1.  Orchard 2 has our stone fruits, apples, and cherry.  We have to separate our orchard names for the inspectors.  Uh huh.  :)

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/GEDC0031.jpg)

It's awesome to see the homestead getting started with planting, I am definitely one who would have a hard time with that, and just want to get the house built...then the shop...then, you get the idea!  It even says in the Bible, to plant your fields, and see to your livestock, then build your house.  I'm still trying to convince my builder's brain that it is the correct way to do it.  They make you separate the trees in your orchard?  Do they charge you taxes per fruit too :P

Hehehe...  I separated the trees because I did the drainage test, passed it (barely), planted half the trees, then found standing water in some other holes.  I then dug new test holes on a slope and those passed.  Twice.  FOrtunately the trees seem to be doing okay.

I'm not sure your house/field/livestock orer is wrong, Jens.  In the winter I get to drive 3 hours, work, and go to my Dad's place in Colusa (an hour away), to the Motel 6 in Oroville ($50), or home.  I tried camping out in below freezing weather before.  Here's the thing:  I can work in the field, or I can freeze my bod all night.  I will not do both.  Well, not yet at least.   :-\

In the Good News Department the CCOF (California Certified Organic Farm) inspectors were out today and passed us!  We should get our letter in a month!  W00t!  We won't have much to sell this year, but getting through the red tape early is a big plus for me.

:D :D

CCOF?  Sweet!  I stayed in the Bates motel, Motel 6 in Colusa for a few days once for work...what a dump!  Supposed to have a tent, canvas one, with a nice wood stove.  Bed is straw bales and a sleeping bag.  Could even set up straw walls on north and east sides.  Oh yeah...start in the springtime too, get planted, build barn, this you sleep in through the first winter, animals help keep you warm.  Then, the next spring all of the logs you cut and peeled are dry enough to build the cabin. 

That's the scenario I dream up at least.  The four kids, and the baking wife help keep the tent warm as well.

drew-

keep the updates coming.  i love logging in here and seeing what you guys are up to.  the land is beautiful, the vision more so, and your progress so far is impressive.  i can't wait to see the finished product.

-matt

Quotethe baking wife help keep the tent warm as well.

Better stick a tender timer in 'er, Jens --- don't want to overcook 'er.

Great on the CCOF, Drew. :)

 rofl

Maybe you've spent too much time on job sites Glenn!  Or maybe that wise crack runs really deep.  I'll have to remember to tell my wife that one.

I'm voting for the deep cracks...not that I really want to see THAT picture again...but... ;)

[rofl2]

The irrigation system is all set.  The test field and two orchards are on timers.  I get EVo data every week from CIMIS and calculate the amount of water I need to put in the ground.  The seeds are hard at work and the trees are flowering.  It's time to get back to the building.

Dan and I built window bucks last weekend.  These are the 2"x4" and plywood open boxes that will be in the bale wall to hold the windows.  They went pretty quick, though we used some left over (um, yeah) 7/8" floor sheathing, so they are really heavy.  Those windows ain't going nowhere.

Here's a picture of me actually working.  No, really!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0484.jpg)

Here's Dan.  After the battery on the circle saw quit she finished the rest of the sheathing cuts with a hand saw.  She said she was too lazy to get the generator for the corded saw.  Uh huh.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0489.jpg)

We put the bucks in place on the floor to get an idea of what the view will look like.  They'll actually go in about 32" higher.  Here's the view to the east.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0490.jpg)

And to the west.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0491.jpg)

The 200 gallon water tank has me coming back to refill it every week, so I get to make up a bunch of jobs to make the trip pay off better.  I get to bleach the well again and clean Cassa Guacamole from the winter rodent guests.  The fishing line deer fence is holding up so far, but I think I should leave a few heads of lettuce inside to see if it really works.

The plan is to finish the flashing and bale base work this month and place the bales on Memorial Day weekend.  I admit that I am nervous about that part.  We need to get the bales in, lathed, and stuccoed before any rain comes.  Yes, I know we are in a drought and it doesn't rain after May.  But I am superstitious.  Whatever.  I'll tarp and do the best I can.

looking good - nice view too.  :D

Drew its looking great! I like how you are working on the orchard and garden concurrently  [cool]

It was supposed to get up to 104 out in Palermo today.  Fortunately it only made it to about 100.  Still, this coastal boy is not built for that so Dan (She is brilliant.  Have I mentioned that before?) suggested that we work on the roofing at night.

It's not like we were playing roof hockey.  We were tied off and had florescent shop lights set up.  We worked from 6:00 pm to 10:30 pm Saturday and again from 6:00 am to 10:30 Sunday.  We only had to work with a dark sky for a couple hours and it was way more comfortable than it would have been at 3:00 in the afternoon sitting on black asphalt shingles.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0576.jpg)

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0591.jpg)

At the end of the working day we have only 9 more courses to go, the trimming, and roof edge to put on. 

Last weekend my dad and I put on the faccia boards, drip edge, most of the felt, and 8 courses of shingles.  More importantly, we hauled six and a half squares of shingles to the roof.  To do this we made a sled out of some plywood, a 2x4, and some Simpson strap.  The straps kept the board from catching so bad on the rafters and faccia boards at the top.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0563.jpg)

The Old Man was the top guy for the 58 or so trips (We put 1/3 of a bundle on each load.  The sled was heavy enough.).  I just moved and loaded the shingles while he pulled them up.  He's an IT systems guy like me, but was born on a farm.  The thing is that he keeps putting in work days like that.  I hope that stuff doesn't skip a generation.

I'll be getting 125 rice straw bales on Friday.  Here comes the main event!

(How long have I been building this foolish thing?)

Drew a little late but you could have used a ladder to skid the bundles to the roof without that dead lift. With a rope and pulley at the top and someone just walking up the ladder to keep them on track. 

We thought about that, John.  It came up early on. We ended up not doing it because:

1.  The tall ladder we have is one of the fold up kinds.  It has a knuckle or two on each side we'd have to get past.
2.  The Old Man didn't want anyone on the bottom side of the bundle if anything went wrong.  He's soft that way.  :)
3.  The angle we'd have to use for the ladder was pretty steep, even at the lowest relative point on the roof.  It wasn't much better than hauling straight up. 

A longerladder that was an extension ladder would have helped, but not the one we had.  I like the pulley idea.  That could help keep control of the load.  I'd need to find out where to secure it, but that won't be hard.  Maybe I'll pick one up just to have it around for next time.

The baling and stucco work will be interesting.  We get to figure out how to reach some out of the way spots.  Maybe those 3D computer games I used to play will come in handy.   d*

What's the roof pitch?

12:1, Don.  All you need down here well below the snow line.

I was wondering more about the rain not running off fast enough, or being blown up under the shingles if wind driven. IIRC, the minimum pitch for basic asphalt shingles is a 3 inch rise to a 12 inch run (3:12).

I usually use roll roofing on the lower pitch roofs but it may work OK in our state.  No doubt that those babies will glue down in the Ca sun, but I believe Don is right.

Hmm.  When I think about it, it's actually 2:15, which makes it a 1.6 in 12.  Ow.  I hate to think this late at night.  Anyway, I have 30 year shingles over 30 lb felt.  A couple weeks of North Valley July weather and we'll have one big chewing gum square.  I'm not too worried about it coming up, and if it does I just guess I'll have to do something about it.

I've got trees far enough away not to fall on the place but perhaps close enough to be something of a wind break.  We shall necessarily see.

Blown rain gets in on a flat slope easier, but I have had a small similar roof at the other place with no problem.

Glenn I had heard that also. Anything less than 3/12 goes to rolled roofing.  They also say not to run metal on anything less than a 3/12.  I am sure that is for the snow& ice which you probably don't get it that often.  CA weather is a little warmer than here.  The past two mornings it has been 29 & 30F.  Bad for the early gardens.

Yes - In CA, they use metal as low as a 1/12 pitch in non-snow areas, generally with roll caulking on the joints, but we have done it with no caulking and no problem.

We baled over Memorial Day weekend!  I went up early Friday morning and got things set up. Dave and Dan came up at 7:30 am Sunday and we cranked until 4:00 Monday.  We even got some more roofing in after dark on Saturday.  Here are some pictures...

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0592.jpg)

Getting ready for the bales.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0593.jpg)

I met the rice farmer and his driver in Palermo and guided them in.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0594.jpg)

They even let me help unload and stack the bales!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0595.jpg)

Next stop was Home Depot to pick up 18 bags of gravel and a roll of roof felt.  I need an open bed pickup so I can stop shopping like a dweeb.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0596.jpg)

Supper most welcome.  They call it a "burrito" because "Jesus" was already taken.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0602.jpg)

Bale Alpha. 

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0603.jpg)

This is what I got done on my own.  Dan and Dave were inspired and came the next day ready to work!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0607.jpg)

Pieces of vinyl flashing made placing partial bales WAY easier.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0610.jpg)

It sure helped sliding them along the courses, too.  After the first course we could place them all from inside the building.  This made the work a whole lot safer.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0608.jpg)

King David upon his throne.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0609.jpg)

A right farmer's lunch of quiche and brown rice and vegetable thingies (I call them spider cakes).  Wash it down with a Fresca and pick my teeth with a 20d nail.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0611.jpg)

One of our better looking construction workers.  She's also a demon at figuring out how to get a bale "way out there" without getting hurt.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0619.jpg)

The waiting window bucks make a great place to put tools out of the way.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0620.jpg)

Once we got the air to stop running through the sun, it cooled off a lot.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0621.jpg)

We blocked a window with bales so we could slide other bales on top of them to build the back wall.  That was another great idea from Dave.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0624.jpg)

We're not done yet, but here's the 28 bales remaining from the 126 we started with.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0623.jpg)

An elevation.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0626.jpg)

Another.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0627.jpg)

Another.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMAG0628.jpg)

And another.

We have a few more whole bales and a bunch of partials to go.  We've filled in the cracks between the bales, but we still get to even out the faces of the walls a bit and get the stucco lathe on the outside.

I am trying to do some research on a stucco sprayer, but can't find any at the usual places.  Anyone know if they are a good idea for a project like this, and if so, where I should look for one?

Drew you are past my area of expertise when it comes to building with bales.  Most of my life I have baled, stack and feed straw and hay bales but never built with them.  My hats off to you.  I do have a few questions.  Is there any structural security until you get it parged or stucco?  I think I would have to use some baler wire through the bales and anchor them to what structural support you have.  The wire would be easy to punch through the bales on either side of your post and diagonal bracing then twisted to secure. Even noticed that you have chicken wire on the interior.  I could even be wired to that.  I would be afraid that given the right amount and direction of wind that they could be blown out of alignment.  Bales stacked interlocking in a pile are usually secure but in a course stacking there is not much support.   How are you going to attach the wooden sills for the windows if there is plans for any? 

Looking good for a city boy though.  Watch them fancy boots on that straw it's slick on the floor.  But it looks like Dan is keeping up on that part.

That's great, Drew.

I think you need the Tirolessa stucco sprayer and a decent sized compressor - or there are plans available to build your own if you are into tinsmithing.  I have a copy somewhere.


http://www.papercrete.com/tiro.htm

http://mortarsprayer.stores.yahoo.net/tisp.html

Hey John,

Thanks for the good word.  The first course of bales rest on two PT 2x4s laid flat and parallel with gravel between them.  The outside 2x4 has a bunch of 20d nails sticking up to hold the first course of bales.  The bales are tied to the posts with plastic twine and the whole treatment gets stucco lathe inside and out.  The bales are also stacked in the interlocking pattern.

The windows will come out flush to the outer edge (No sill) and I'll flash, caulk, and trim the edges.  They'll have that nice curve on the inside, but not where the water can give me trouble.

Thanks for the lead on the mortar sprayer, Glenn.  That's the ticket.

Wow that looks good Drew. You guys have been busy.

Looks great! Interesting to see all the different mediums used - I'm especially looking forward to seeing how you finish it.
[cool]

Look what I found while looking at land in Northern CA.

Drew you sure get around.

http://www.freshmanfarmer.com/category/coyotehouse/ (http://www.freshmanfarmer.com/category/coyotehouse/)


http://www.coyotehousefarm.com/ (http://www.coyotehousefarm.com/)

A celebrity among us I see. 

Drew when I commented about the interlocking stack I was refering to 90 degrees alternating in a square stack fashion.  I realize that wasn't possible hence the tie wire.   Since your courses are like block or brick until youi get something to tie them together (mortar) they can easily topple.  You could even take # 3 or # 4 rebar and drive down through 3 or so would help.

That makes good sense, John.  We're already on the sixth course, so I might not reach the bottom three.  Hmm...

The Freshman Farmers thing is pretty cool.  Dan and I are different than the other folks, but I guess that is part of what makes it work.  We have a lot of soil prep to do this fall to get ready for a season of good planting.  Our test field did okay, but the clay is a bear.

And footwear?  Tactical boots!  I got some from Amazon and they work great.  No slipping and tough enough for rocks and snakes.  They're a little tedious to lace up on a cold morning, so my next pair might be the kind with zippers.

"For goodness sake, take care of your feet!" - Lieutenant Dan

Ever see one of those prison break movies?  The con has smuggled in a spoon and uses it over the course of 30 years to dig a tunnel.  That's what the last couple months have been like on this.

The bales were great!  Dave, Dan, and I stacked and had a lot of progress over a short period of time.  Then came the wood work between the rafters and the top of the bales.  Get up early, drive three hours, fight with the twisted rafters at bad ladder angles, drive another three hours to go home, and scare the people at the Marysville Jamba Juice (That homeless family is back again!  They're bathing in our restroom!). 

Tedious. 

This is my dad.  He's really allergic to rice like most people are allergic to CS gas.  So he comes to work on my rice straw bale with a pollen mask on.  If it was only pepper spray he wouldn't have bothered.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0794-1.jpg)

The peach tree up and got shothole fungus.  The test field is producing a few veggies and a lot of information.  "Okay, so the rabbits like everything but the basil.  And potatoes will grow in the clay, but harvesting them is a less than fun.  Yellow Star Thistle likes the edge of disturbed soil..."

So it's real.  On the good side we've figured out how to have a productive day when the temperature goes from 85 to 106 over the course of the day.  I sweat like a coffee filter, but bandanas are really cool.  We haven't seen a snake all summer but never stop looking for them.  I learned a lot of stuff about evapotranspiration and can make 200 gallons of water go pretty far over 17 trees and a test field.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0840.jpg)

This weekend all four of us were at the place to finish up the wood and lath work and start the stucco.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0826.jpg)

The first batch of 15 bags got the kids almost all the way around the building.  I also have a pretty good idea of how fast a team of two can trowel stucco on lath and straw and what the coverage is like.  We have a stucco sprayer and I want to rent a bigger compressor to use with it.  I'll get 45 80# bags and see how things go.  With a two person spraying crew and one mixing we'll probably still have a lot of downtime. But it will probably be faster than trowling.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0829.jpg)

Dave goes off to the University of Alaska at Fairbanks on Sunday, so this was his last weekend at the farm for a while.  We are sure going to miss him around the place.  For all the building he has learned to do, he still pitches his tent outside at the end of the day.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0843.jpg)

These are the bale staples we used.  We made them from high tensile wire we got at Home Depot.  It was about $17 for 170 feet and we could make them any size we want.  Since we need about four rolls for the outside, it was a good idea.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0822.jpg)

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0813.jpg)

It puts the lotion on or it gets the hose again.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0840.jpg)

Oroville is a weird town.  A bunch of the restaurants we went to were closed on Saturday night.  Are they mob fronts?  We did find a Mexican place that was open that we liked.  When you're vegetarian and you get out of the big towns, Mexican food is one of your good bets.  It's also good if you need some money laundered.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0836.jpg)

Looking great. Drew. 

If I had that high tensile wire and straw bale walls I would make me some Spiderman claws or maybe Wolverine claws and climb them. [crz]

That would make it a heck of a lot easier to work up top then a ladder.

My friend Joe and Julia who built their own strawbale house ( picture of it below ) helped me parge this weekend. He said he applied the same trick he used on his house. Take a 12"x12" hawk , put about 5 lbs of mud on it, then put the hawk up against the bale and blade the mud upwards off the hawk. It takes some strength but its incredibly fast and effective. I watched him work blazing fast on my wall. Hes in the 2nd pic. Their house is absolutely beautiful.

(https://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd261/bishopknight1977/100_5393.jpg)

Here he is using the hawk and trowel.

(https://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd261/bishopknight1977/100_0462.jpg)

That's a great idea, Bishopknight.  We've also been using small redwood trowels (?) but a bigger one should work better and woudl be easy to build. 

Beautiful house, too!  I like the greenhouse off to the side.

The hawk is a good way to do it also, Drew.  I taught a friend to do it on his stucco fence.

I'd still like a set of those claws though. [waiting]

(https://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu112/bobmarlon/276645_Full.jpg)

I have done similar work spreading concrete onto metal lathe and the method we found the fastest was to have one person shovel small amounts of concrete continuously onto another persons hawk and have them spread the concrete in a rhythm.  When the wheelbarrow runs empty you both stop and mix it together then switch off on spreading.

or hire a shockrete truck and just spray the whole thing d*

I did a lot of that, too.  Had to mix my own stucco in the mixer, pour it out in the black plastic cement pan ( don't know what it's called) then used the hawk & I liked to use the rubber lathe - just seemed easier for me.  Did lots of the outside walls, a big section on the roof that kinda looks like a big water slide & the walls beside it & also the arch on the RV garage - got lots of it on my head in the arch  d*  the stuff would fall down on me at 1st before it finally started to stick to the ceiling.  The best stuff I worked with was the plastic cement mixed with sand with some fiber mesh added.  That hawk piled with stucco really builds the muscles  c*

We'd experimented with some other mixtures using more of the earth plaster with Henry's (looks like tar) & straw - did a bunch of that over straw bales on top of the roof where we had put a pond - also covered the stairs with it.  I had to mix it about 30 feet away, climb up to the top carrying 5 gal buckets - good thing I was a few years younger  - don't think I could do that anymore  [waiting]  The stuff didn't wear real well in the rain - but they were experiments Glenn had read about - he had me try it out  [slap]  heh

Coming right along, Drew & family!

When I used to build swimming pools we would also add A line of Dish soap into the mix it would make the plaster easier to work with.

Dan posted this as one of our weekly blogs on FreshmanFarmer.com.  I want to put it here because I think you folks will know what she's talking about.

Green Construction?

The straw bale ag building is hard to construct.  I mean HARD.  Yesterday found me in sitting in front of the still only partially completed building, cutting umpteen million linear feet of high tensile steel into bale staples, and pondering why we are using straw bale construction.  I mean, what were our reasons for getting into this kind of construction?

"Green" leaps to mind.  This place is supposed to be Green!  That's why we chose this.  That's why all four of us signed up for the Straw Bale 101 seminar up at the Solar Living Institute in Hopland and got all charged up about erecting our next ag building using straw bale construction.  Right?  Or was that it?  I started thinking back to that seminar.

Here's the way the seminar is described:

http://www.solarliving.org/store/product.asp?catid=13&pid=2109 (http://www.solarliving.org/store/product.asp?catid=13&pid=2109)

Well, OK, the seminar doesn't really say straw bale is "Green," but it IS listed under Sustainable Living.  Yes, I do think Green is what we had in mind.

And indeed, what could be greener than using this delightful, pure, sweet-smelling agricultural byproduct of the local mega-monoculture, Rice, for a second purpose beyond just holding up the rice heads in the fields?  We would be putting to use something that otherwise would be trucked by the rice farmer to the local incineration site, a double whammy on rice's carbon footprint.  Our alternative would preserve the straw intact, rather than spending petrochemicals to try and convert it into some other form.  The pure unadulterated bales would live soundly inside the walls of our building, in permanent peace.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0911.jpg)

The first thing we learned in the seminar at Solar Living was that there are all kinds of problems with simple straw bale structures, the kind where you just stack the bales and call it done.  Those are called "load bearing" structures, where the straw bears the load of the roof unassisted by any wood.  These structures are the kind that can be done by the seminar attendees in a couple of days.  They are also the kind that are prohibited by Code in many California counties, and where they aren't prohibited, the county will often require extensive engineering to prove they'll stay standing.

So, we concluded we need to frame our structure with wood.  Strike One against Green, and add several months onto the life of our project for framing, on weekends, three hours from home.  (And let's not even mention the footprint made by our truck on the weekly six-hour round-trip commute for framing work.)

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0914.jpg)

"Well," said we, "we can at least minimize our use of Demon Cement, by using pier and beam construction for our foundation rather than pouring a cement pad!"

Great!  no concrete in the foundation!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0915.jpg)

Well, almost no concrete.  We've achieved a Green advantage!

Au contraire!  Because we next learned, when planning ahead for our lovely earth plaster that we'd learned how to mix and apply (in the idyllic afternoon sun, adjacent to the organic garden) in the Solar Living seminar, that you actually have to MINE the earth plaster from the earth!  And our earth is HARD!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0917.jpg)

Also, we do not want a gigantic hole left behind from where the earth was taken.  The alternative, to essentially strip mine the earth, is definitely AntiGreen.  There ARE guys out there who mine their own earth for earth plaster, and one of them offered to give us some.  We'd need many truckloads.  We would have to drive VERY far.

So, stucco.  Suboptimal.  First, it inhibits the ability of the bale walls to breathe, which they're really supposed to be able to do in order to maintain best permanent health.  And, second ... It's made of cement!  Demon Cement!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0916.jpg)

What's the Green scorecard like?  We are getting Ds.  And, the project hasn't taken a weekend or even a couple of weeks like the freestanding, loadbearing, earth plastered little bale building that's so rosily described on so many websites.  Rather, we are in our second year and barely going to make completion before this year's rains if we're lucky.

And there are more ways our project is jeopardizing the Green agenda!  The thing needs tools — lots and lots of special tools that we don't already have!

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0926.jpg)

Acquiring each tool requires a mindful act.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0918.jpg)

Sometimes we forget to act mindfully.  Many tools have made a long journey before arriving at your local Home Depot or local independently-owned hardware establishment.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMAG0920.jpg)

I recall how Drew and I had spent 20 minutes earlier that morning selecting a hose nozzle to replace the broken one, looking at about 20 different models — 1 made in USA, 2 made in Taiwan, the rest made in China.  And the only model made on the same continent (presumably) as our project has no cool features, just one lever to squeeze for one kind of spray.

This kind of thinking makes my head want to explode and makes me feel weary.

"Doing will fix that," I think, and I stand up to do.

Dan

Thanks, Drew and Dan.  Good story.

Well, at least you're trying  :)  you won't have to spend so much money or the earth's resources on heating or cooling with those thick straw walls  ;D

Hi Sassy,

The walls are great, but the roof is still sheathing and tar shingle.  Black tar shingle.  That makes it hotter inside than out right now.  Once we dry in we're going to insulate the ceiling and that should make things better.

It is good to have done this.  I am happy to see that our trash pile is really very small considering the size of the project.  I also managed to screw up my math when sizing the floor sheathing order and edned up with twice as much 7/8" OSB as I needed.  We've found many places to use it and the stack is getting shorter.

"Your mother's coming to dinner tonight and we don't have enough plates."

"Cut up some of that OSB."

"Great idea!"

...also goes well slathered in sweet cream butter and fried, Drew....

We're definately in the short strokes now.  Considering we broke ground in December of 2007, I guess that's true.  We're just about to finish the first coat of stucco.  That involved a lot of papering, lath, bale staples, mixing, hauling, spattering, etc.

So I'm looking at my doorway and thinking I could use an opinion or two on the best way to finish it.  I want to do it right so I don't get water coming in.  I have a 2' roof overhang, but no awning.  Y'all can see it in the pictures.

I have the door placed and shimmed in the rough opening.  I would like to have the stucco come up all the way to the inside edge of the door frame if I can instead of capping off with wood.  I was thinking of applying the same sticky, two sided window flashing I used on the windows, then putting the double layer, water resistant black peper over that.  Then I'd staple lath on that and stucco.  The layers would all come up to the inside edge of the door frame.

Should I use some different or supplemental type of flashing on the door frame?  I'd rather keep it simple if I can.

Some lonely stucco contractor came over to the blog at Freshman Farmer and got a little nasty.  "I hope you like mold" was his contribution.  Dan and I had never tried mold before, but now that we have, it goes on our granola every morning.  Poor manners aside, I understand the importance of proper stucco application at the portals.  I feel confident with the windows with my flashing and vinyl flanges. It's this wood frame that has me nervous.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

"We're definitely in the short strokes now." - October 5, 2009

Almost three months later and not a bit of let-up, but I'm calling it.  The thing is now a livable structure and is done.  Mostly.  Sort of.

It's dried in and we can sleep in it in the rain.  It needs front steps and the application of two measly bags of finish coat stucco and some paint, but that will happen when the aforementioned rain lets up.  We can work inside listening to classic rock and eat dinner and read listening to Mozart and Vivaldi.  It has straw bale walls and no roof insulation yet, so the heat leaves like it was in a chimney.  The inside walls need finishing, but I want to check their moisture this winter with my bale probe before we seal them up.

But God, is it beautiful to us.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMG_0208-1.jpg) 

Dave is home from college this month.  Last weekend we built a "kitchen counter" (a 29" tall platform table you can cook on, then move out to eat on).  I can open the window behind it and run the cast iron burner.  After we get this year's crop in I think I'll put in a sink with a gray water drain.  Plenty of time for that later.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMG_0221.jpg)

We also built a queen size platform bed I designed.  The rim joist (for the lack of a better name) is 6' off the ground which is plenty tall for runts like Dan and me.  It's low enough below the ceiling and saves a ton of room.  We're not quite sure what will go under it, but there is no shortage of uses for space.  A honeypot is high on the list.  Pinball machine is low.

You can see the handle of the scythe I got Dan for Christmas in the picture.  She took it out for a spin yesterday and loves it.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMG_0223.jpg)

We get up top using an aluminum ladder, which is a bit amusing in the middle of the night.  We also used the ladder for the stucco work, so it is pretty rough on the bare feet.  We'll be coming up with some other option soon enough.

The place will get the recycled cotton bat insulation for heat retention and the silvered pad stuff for heat reflection.  The summer had the place going like an Easy Bake Oven.  The Big Buddy propane heater is nice, but the joint cools off fast when it goes off and I don't like running it all night.  Aside from the CO issue there's moisture to contend with.

My dad gave us a burn barrel.  I love that thing!  Dan does too, which is even better!

Lighting is done with clamp lamps for now.  We had two Xantrex portable batteries (the smaller ones) with us this two-day trip, neither of them fully charged.  We had enough juice for lights and music from Dan's iPod and JBL speaker ring.  If I had the bigger 60 Ah battery charged we'd be good for a lot longer and could run most of the power tools too.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/The%20Lodge/IMG_0225.jpg)

Back when this place was only on paper, I spent quite a bit of time thinking about roof designs.   The shed roof was the easiest, but did not provide the second floor loft.  The gabel roof would give us the loft, but we had a hard enough time with the roof on the 10'x12' shed to try to do it by ourselves on this project.  A gambrel roof? A-hahahahahaha!  Hoo!  Not gonna happen.  So I satisficed with the shed roof and realized I was really glad I did:

1.    It was all we could handle in terms of rafters, sheathing and roofing between three adults.

2.    We barely got it covered in time for two rainy seasons.  Anything more complicated and we would have had expensive trouble.

3.    We got a tall 10' wall out of the deal.  Very pleasing to the eye.

4.    We actually got small lofts on the ends;  One for bedding and one for wood.

While the place is not done, this phase is finishing just in time.  We plan to plant more fruit trees and dry farm some tomatoes and plant some basil to go with them as a companion crop.  We want to spend more time growing than building this year.  Our cover crop is in but the hoop house to start the tomatoes needs to get built as well as the rabbit fence and the deer fence (Two separate fences.  Cool design.).  We're even going to try and do it with the same old 200 gallon water tank instead of putting in the new one this year.  We'll see how that goes.  It looks good on paper.

I've seen farms with straw bale buildings, but I've never seen one with two.  This project has been a tremendous teacher and the "learnings" have been transferable.  We've got more to do on this building, but I think this is the last of the big projects for a while.  We'll be working on growing and fences and a solar system and stuff like that, all in support of building the soil and creating some food.  Or a disco.  I haven't decided yet.

 [cool]  Drew. What a way to bring the year to an end!

That is great Drew.  Nice to see you can move in.  As for the inside wall coverings - it seems to be customary to add a truth window to straw bale structures.  You could stick your little probe in that...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Truth_window_02_Pengo.jpg

Seems that the ceiling and maybe floor insulation should take care of the heating and cooling problem, as the strawbales are around R50.

Happy New Year, guys.  Thanks for the kind words.  I've been drawing designs in my notebook for the loft bed and the stairs and looking back at the early drawings.  There has been a lot of time going into this.   And except for the math error I made on floor sheathing that had me buying twice as much as I needed (it is still finding good uses), my scrap pile is amazingly small.

I remember hearing about the truth window, Glenn, and plan to put one in.  I was concerned over the southeast corner that faces the predominant winter winds.  I didn't get it all the way closed up before the first rain and some got in.  I have moisture readings on all the walls but want to make sure they go down and I haven't missed any seams before I close it all up and can't take all the readings (I take 12 points on a wall).  The worst is 20% in that one corner.  As long as it falls or doesn't get worse, I'm happy.  Maybe if I let the wall stay open on the inside in the dry season maybe it will dry out a bit more.  Any thoughts in this regard?  Either way, it gives me the excuse to wait until after I have my trees and veggies in the ground.

We want to do the recycled denim for the roof insulation.  It's more expensive, but with the loft bed up that high and just working with the stuff I would prefer it to the fiberglass.  The 5.5" stuff is rated R21 and the 8" is rated R30.  We'll install the radiant barrier too.  For the underside we'll probably go with fiberglass since the runs are straight and we won't live up against it.

12:42 am on the first day of the year.  I wouldn't be up for this except that Robin is out at a NYE party and needs a ride home. 

What I find fascinating and enlightening about this thread and Drew's whole experience is how much plain old work is involved with a project like his. I strongly suspect that many people who are drawn to straw bale construction are simply intimidated by stick framing, and use the "green" label as cover. This thread shows perfectly how difficult it can be using unconventional methods of building, and how one has to really be able to think on their feet to manage it. It ain't just stackin' up some hay, is it?  ;)

Open is probably better than closed, Drew.  Hay bales commonly are tarped top only and side moisture is not worried about and doesn't cause damage, but it is open for the duration also.

Do you know what the moisture content that will cause damage is?

Raindog, I have a wall that is just plain stacked about 14' high in my greenhouse separating the greenhouse from the shop.  It has a few boards in critical places to prevent it from toppling over.  It is not all pretty like Drew's.  [waiting]

From what height is a falling bale fatal? [noidea'

Industry has pretty well seen to it that alternative building can be made to cost more than conventional building if you hire it out.

RainDog, there is a lot to what you say.  We are not contractors, though we had built a 12'x10' gable roof shed before this and had a taste of what we were getting into.  The two-day course in Hopland at the Solar Living Institute barely touched the surface, though a good start.  It's been two years since we took the course (It happened in September 2007 and we got our permit in November 2007).  We built the irrigation system during the winter of 2007/08 when the mud was too thick to work in, and we tarped the work and did field prep for the winter of 2008/09.  We've had any number of weather related "pushes" to get it done before the rain/heat came.  I have the class email list here somewhere and plan to send folks over here to show them how it went.

The green aspect is counterbalanced by the fact the bales were not tilled back into the farmer's soil and the concrete we saved on a foundation was put into the walls in the form of stucco.

If all I wanted was a building I could have done it cheaper.  If you assign apprentice wages to our hours (And that would be the honest way of doing it), account for fuel for the 6-hour round trip each weekend, and the cost of materials (To be fair, waste was really low), it might have been cheaper and much faster to put an office portable or a Home Depot "cabin" in place.  But in addition to a building, I got the following out of this:

1.  Tool skills.  The tricks I know now can only come from endless repetition.  As Mr. Miagi said, "Wax on, wax off." I can also move with greater safety and confidence on a ladder or a roof.
2.  My son developing his skills.  Since we bought the farm almost five years ago when he was 14, we went from, "Wake up, Dave!" to stopping and listening when he said, "Hey, I have an idea."  His ideas on clever ways of using our materials have saved us hours of labor many times.
3.  Working well with my dad and wife.  There's a book in this somewhere.
4.  Righteous pain.  I go back to my cubicle on Monday (If I am lucky enough to have work) and feel it in my shoulders, legs, and arms.  Maybe a few barked knuckles.  Bueno.

The maximum moisture level is 20%, Glenn.  Though I have been using a 2-prong grain probe rather than a bale needle.  The readings I'll get will be higher because of the tightness of the bale.  Still, I suspect that a bit of the water that came in did so at the side of a bale high up on the wall and has been falling down slowly to the bottom.  The bales sit on a base of two PT 2"x4"s with gravel in between them, so the  water has a place to go if it falls down.

Lethal height for a bale?  Those awkward blocks don't need much to bend and snap something fragile.   :o

Quote from: glenn kangiser on January 01, 2010, 01:59:13 PM


From what height is a falling bale fatal? [noidea'

Industry has pretty well seen to it that alternative building can be made to cost more than conventional building if you hire it out.

When the hay bales subject came up a short time ago about bales surrounding shipping containers; my main concern was them tumbling down and hurting or killing kids, adults and pets.  The bales today are very solid, and not uncommon for them to weight in the 100 plus pound range.  These are common string tied bales baled with the newer inline balers.  This was something that was only done with wire ties not that many years ago.  So there is an inherited danger with this type construction.  Certainly they should be netted or banded in the upper layers to prevent this.    
           

You bet, Rick.  We tied the bales to the frame with nylon twine.  The inside and outside are covered with wire stucco lath and stapled with steel staples we made.  They ain't going nowhere.

We had a few extra bales left over (You're supposed to order 10% more to cover cut bales and breakage) and stacked them two high outside.  Once water soaked, these things weigh over 100 lbs. easy.  Telling by the prints in the mud, a neighbor's horse (it could have been a zebra or unicorn, too) came by and knocked them over looking for goodies.

Oh, for sure there's a book in that experience, maybe two or three, considering everything. I'd read it.

Hey Drew good to see you guys back.  I have been wondering how you guys were doing.  When the subject of straw bales came up a while back I thought of you guys and was going to look up your thread.  I wanted to try and direct this certain person to your thread.  I really liked the way you put that together.  Great use of materials and your time.  However things on the other topic sort of went south.  Nuff said there.

Not to get to far off topic but how are the trees going?

Wow.  Over a year since the last post, huh?  Well, we haven't been on vacation...

I just did our taxes and saw 44 trips to the farm for 2010.  We're killing the planet in exhaust fumes to build our organic farm.  There's a high irony content in our soil.

Anyway, here are some pictures from what we've done.  We just finished the interior painting last weekend, and I count that as a finishing milestone.  Making the guests use coasters does not.

Here's the east wall and where we have our morning coffee and tool sharpening jags.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0563.jpg)

Just to the right is what most people call the south wall, which hosts the kitchen and Hole Where the Solar Panel Wire Comes In.  Let me know if I get too technical for you.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0562.jpg)

This is the other side of the south wall, which hosts our redneck solar array.  Dan and I built those panels ourselves using cells from eBay, Lexan, plywood, masonite, a blocking diode, and deck paint to block the UV from the wood.  Each one puts our 60 watts.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0566.jpg)

Here's pour power station.  Aside from the trusty 20 and 60 amp hour portables we have a pair of Trojan T-105 6 volt batteries.  They are wired in series to give us 225 amp hours at 12 volts.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0567.jpg)

Continuing our tour we come to the south west corner just to prove we have it.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0560.jpg)

This is the boudoir area.  Dave and I built the queen size loft bed last year, and it works like a charm.  When Dave's not around we store stuff up there out of the way.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0564.jpg)

The place is not without amenities.  In addition to electricity and water at 35 psi (outside) we have music, a G3 internet connection, and wifi for the geeks who hang out here to get on the internet.  It is very cool to listen to Pandora.com while working.

(https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Construction/IMG_0568.jpg)

There's a shower outside and a weather station to let us know when it's raining.  "Yep.  It's raining."  We have three hoop houses in the veggie rows to keep the deer and rabbits out and a total of 55 fruit trees in the ground now.  David is going to school up in Fairbanks, Alaska, but plans to spend the coming semester at Chico State and taking care of the farm.  While the trees will take more time to produce, we plan to build on last year's experience and produce tomatoes in saleable quantity this summer.

All in all life is good.  We can still do this even though I  am working full time(plus) again.  I was worried about that.  But now I can even do a work at home day or three from this place.

Nice to hear from you Drew.  Glad everything is working out OK.  Was worried that you might have got struck wearing your spandex and cowboy boots riding your bike. ;D

Spent the better part of today reading your whole thread beginning to end and I must say it was a great read. Glad to see some other people from the Bay on here, though your slice of heaven is more North East and I am straight North. Can't wait for your project to continue and watch your organic farm grow, literally.

looks great drew!  I should get you in touch with my mom up in Orland, she'd love to come out and see your place...you probably wouldn't be able to keep her from helping too!

John, you know it!  But here's some advice:  Don't wear your spurs when you ride your bike.  They don't like the chain.

Pmichelsen, you're north of the Bay?  What part?  Almost anywhere out thaty way is too expensive to grow.  :)

Jens, she'd love our tomato crop this year!  Too bad the trees are just gearing up.

We're getting ready for the annual war with the wabbits and deer.  I bought a Scarecrow, which is an automatic sprinkler with an infrared sensor.  It's good to about 30 feet and will go off when the deer and the antelope play a little too close to my radishes.  Anyone have any experience with these?

It's starting to green up a bit out here now.  I'll get some pictures up.  And maybe some comedy of me usticking my truck.

2 wheel drive trucks.  Who thought of that?  Then again, 4 wheel drive just lets you get tuck out further...

Ahhhh yes... the sprinkler.  [idea]

Sassy and I bought one of those for here several years ago. We didn't have fence around the garden and the deer were dropping in whenever they wanted to eat vegetables, bushes and flowers at their leisure.

I saw the sprinkler and knew that was the answer to our problems.  No need for us to be around.  Deer get hungry... deer walk up... deer go to eat....sensor sees deer....turns on self contained sprinkler.... deer get scared...drop mouthful of whatever they are currently munching on.... run away nearly having a heart attack on the way out....truly an invention made in heaven....... [scared]


Reality..... [noidea'


Hook up sprinkler....

Go to town.....

Come back a few hours later.....

Garden is eaten.... [frus]

Car sets off sprinkler sensor....

Wakes up deer sleeping under sprinkler in the garden....

They run off with full bellies and a good after dinner nap in the refreshing mist of the sprinkler in the hot sun..... [waiting]

Actually sad but true...and only slightly embellished..... :(

if you're looking for goats, I think my mom has about 40 kids right now...just saying.

If we were there full time I'd consider goats, Jen.  Even we can't use all that wild grass we grow.  Then again, I'd also like to keep some chickens for the eggs.  Pastrued eggs are a thing of culinary beauty.

Our neighbor inherited 8 or so llamas from another neighbor who lost his place in the downturn.  I really like those guys.  I hear they keep the coyotes away too.  Their manure is in beans (llama beans!), so it dries and spreads really well.  It even has more N, P, and K than steer and horse manure.  Yep, I am a gourmet now.   :)