Hello all! I bought the Big Enchilada plans several years ago with plans to build on a piece of land that fell through. Well, this spring my wife and I closed on 9 acres outside of Fayetteville in Northwest Arkansas and we've finally started to build!
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For the past month and a half I've worked on the pole barn so that I'd have a place to store lumber and tools in a dry location.
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Also we plan to collect rainwater off of the roof so we've placed 4 poly tanks totaling 6400 gallons inside the barn to protect the poly from the sun.
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I placed the ridge cap last weekend and seamless gutters should be placed soon so collection should begin soon. The only problem is I hate to hope for rain when I'm starting to frame and it will likely be quite a while before I get dried in!
The block foundation was completed earlier this week and yesterday I set the mudsills in place (no pics of that yet)
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I really have very little experience except for a few small framing jobs. I've purchased almost all of the recommended books and I hope to rely heavily on the experts here.
So.......
here's the first of many questions: Are diagonals 3/8's of an inch off something to be worried about? The foundation itself was 3/4 inch out of square so with the sills I've been able to correct it by 3/8's but I don't see how to make it perfect. When I snapped my lines for the sills everything looked great but after placing the sills..... ??? All of the measurements- front to back and side to side are perfect and if I move the sills anymore it will affect those dimensions. Is it worth it to make the anchor bolt holes bigger so I have more play in them or should I just leave it and be satisfied?
Some of the books I have indicate anything under 1/4 inch is de facto perfect so should I sweat that 1/8th?
Nice looking layout of the land. Using a steel 100 ft tape and diagonal measurements you should be able to tweak it a little closer. It will not hurt to widen the anchor holes in the sill as long as they are not on the edge of the sill. Just put a larger plate or washer on top to keep the anchor nut from falling through. Yes it is a little time consuming but the "out of square" will be transfered all the way to the roof and haunt you through the framing amd finishing process. If you can widen the bolt holes in the sill to the direction that you need to go and using a piece of ply at the corners (4)secured you will be able to shift the sill without affecting the corners being square. Then when you are closer then remove the ply and recheck.
Would it be good to place the water storage tanks as high as possible so they will drain without having to be pumped out?
w* Nice looking place you have there. [cool]
I would think that it would be a good idea to elevate the water tanks a little. And boy, that sounds like a lot of water. ???
Unless the pics are tricking my eye, it appears that the barn is down hill in a slope. If so, do you have drainage provisions that divert water away from the barn?
The same drainage question applies to the house foundation.
On the out-of-square question, is the sill plate wide enough to do some adjustment with the walls?
You made a smart choice to build the barn first.
Looks like around the West Fork area?
John, I took your advice and continued to work at squaring up the sills and I'm happy to report that I was able to make it perfect! The diagonals are now the same as are the rest of the dimensions. I will have to get larger washers as you mentioned for one section that did require much larger holes to make the needed adjustment. I also added a termite barrier and sill foam sealant under the sill plate. Will be starting the floor joists hopefully next week!
Poppy- the barn is on a slope but I've positioned it so it's on a saddle of sorts and the grade drops away from each of the long sides. At the upper short side the land levels out some so drainage has not been an issue. We've had some good downpours recently and no water has run into the structure. Still I plan to add a swale at the upper side to prevent this ever occuring.
As far as the tanks go, each one sits about 4-6 inches lower than the previous one and they are sloped slightly downhill toward their respective drain port. Cleaning should be fairly easy. On that note, however, I've visited recently a guy in a neighboring state who's been collecting water for the past 10 years and has not had to clean his tanks once. He never filters and the water runs into his house with gravity pressure. I tasted it and it was quite good!
Someone knows their topography quite well- I'm about 3 miles from West Fork.
jdhen just a simple word of advice. Yeah it's free around here. That is if you used Pressure treated lumber for your sill and used aluminum termite guard they are not compatable. The chemicals in the PT lumber will corrode the aluminum and eventually it will fall apart. There is a simple solution and that is to use 30# felt paper(tar paper) between the two. That will eliminate the reaction to the aluminum.
How far should the termite guard overlap either the blocks or the sill? Should it fold up or down or not at all?
30 degree angled down. Supposeably at that angle they will fall off if they attempt to climb any higher. On mine I put it the width of the block + 1" on the outside. That is just what mine worked out as I took a full roll and bandsawed it in half to do the entire house foundation. Another reason to run it at least half the width of your block is so the weight of the house will hold it in place.
John, I very much appreciate that piece of advice. I had no idea that could be a problem. I'm glad there's the easy fix. Tell me this- I have several rolls of 15 lb. If I place 2 layers of that is it the same as one layer of 30lb? Just curious...
jdhen I would say 15# will work OK. I just am prone to 30# because of the weight. Basicly it is just a moisture barrier to keep the aluminum from making contact with the PT lumber. When I found out about this it was suggested I could use copper flashing. As copper would not react with the PT. Right $$$$ . I did however use it as an underlayment on hardwood floor because elevation was an issue.
I'll just get some 30lb to be on the safe side. It's not like it's expensive. I'm glad to know about this now but I sure hate to undue all that work! Everything's perfect!! d*
When I'd done a search for termite guards I came across the copper ones and I thought what a ridiculous expense! Now I get it.....
You can probably just loosen the sill bolts , raise up the sill plate and slide the felt in. I would mark the location of the sill in respect to the block location to make sure you get it back in place. Just a felt tip marker would probably work.
Jesse, looks like you have the drainage under control, and the swale is a smart thing to do.
John, good info. there on the termite guard. I plan to use aluminum and the 30# felt seems like a good inexpensive solution to prevent corrosion. I will also use it between the PT lumber and the galv. ties.
Just a note if anyone is interested in pursuing copper. Try Storm Copper (http://stormcopper.com/). They do not sell termite shield, per se, however they sell all sorts of copper materials, sheet, rod, bar, etc. . They are fast shippers too.
Ever make it out to Lake Weddington?
I've enjoyed several nice hikes out there but I haven't been recently. Sometime I'd like to take the longer hike out to the Illinois river overlook.
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I started framing the floor today. It's gone well for the most part but I'm having some trouble I need help with.
Last week the sill plates were reasonably level within acceptable tolerances but we had some heavy rains that caused some of them to cup and warp badly. Now when I placed my band/ header joist it's not sitting flush because of the cupping and general warping of the plates. I picked the best straightest lumber I had in the pile so I don't think it's bowing that's causing the problem. I haven't been able to make it sit flush with toenailing or even standing on it (I'm not sure how that would work anyway as I'm working alone and don't think I could nail while standing on the joist)
In several spots there's a gap from 1/16th up to close to 1/4 inch between the sill and band joist.
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I'm guessing it will settle over time but in the mean time it's making the band and the floor joists not sit level. Some of them are either lower or higher in relation to the band.
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For the ones that are higher, do I lift them flush with the band and end nail them and expect them to settle over time so that they will bear on the sill plate? Or do I shim them?
For the joists that sit higher than the band (only a few do this due to asymetrical cupping of the sill) do I chisel out the difference in the sill plate so that they sit flush with the band?
None of the joists are nailed in yet since I wanted to wail until I figured out the best way to proceed.
Thanks!
Don't take this wrong.
Repeat after me: "I am not building furniture".
A quarter inch proud might be a bit of an issue, but how many of those do you have?
If the deflection is only near the rimjoists, the amount of deflection reduces quickly as you move away from the joist.
I would shim the ones that are not in contact with the sill plate, and ignore the high ones (okay, it might be hard to ignore 1/4"). Once you get your deck down you'll never notice them again. After the whole thing is loaded down, and it dries out and stabilizes, you'll be fine.
You could chisel the sill out for the high ones, but guess what... as the moisture changes, the amount of cupping will too.
I think that's part of the problem. Most of my experience working with wood has been building furniture. Thanks for reminding me that this is not a custom cabinet! ;D
Shim the low, and undercut the high floor joists so they are all level . . . Otherwise you will have "high" spots when erecting the walls. This will transfer all the way up through the roof.
/
I had a place where there was a gap between the rim joist and one of the 2 floor beams. It was because the floor beam was a little warped. As the cabin progressed, walls went up, roof went on, that gap disappeared....probably from all the weight. It was a gradual thing, and sort of fun to watch the progress. My floor is still level. My guess is that the same will happen with your lumber.
Thanks for the replies. I did buy some shims today and will use them to set everything level and will keep in mind that it doesn't have to be perfect and that some things will resolve as the building progresses.
"I'm not making furniture......I'm not making furniture"
I'm making progress slowly but surely. Over the past week I've finished framing the floor of the north porch and began laying the Advantech decking today. Everything's going smoothly so far.
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I picked out my framing lumber and expect to take delivery later this week.
I looked into wall jacks for raising the frame but no one in this area rents them out. I think I'll just frame the walls in 12 ft sections. The walls are 12 feet tall so even 12 feet will be heavy. A neighbor of mine who's a framer suggested I leave the headers out until the walls are erected. It's tough for me to get enough people together at one time so I'd like to keep it manageable. It will likely be me and one other person.
Anyone have any thoughts on the best approach here?
jdhen strike you a chalk line where the interior of the plat will go. Then place your plate (outside bottome edge) on that line. Take 10d nail and toenail the plate to the subfloor. This will allow the wall to be raised and the plate will not slide. Have a couple of 2X ready to use for bracing temporaily holding while you plumb. It is nice to have your sheeting attached but this will add to your weight. Be nice if that farmer would lend a hand with a bucketed tractor. ;D I noticed that you have a portion of the joist headed off. Is that for a flue? Good progress.
Red- I notice that a lot of people place at least one layer of ply horizontally at the bottom of the frame before raising. Is that enough to hold square? Also, almost all of the books I have show how to let in a 1x4 brace. Is this a better option? Or is it completely unnecessary since I plan to sheet the walls once erected?
The headed opening is for access to the crawlspace. It will be in the closet under the stairs.
jdhen that usually takes care of the "racking" but will do little for the plumb.
I know it is a little premature but what are your plans for the foundation and piers for a finished look?
I have the same issue getting help and have to find unique ways of building things. I found this a couple weeks ago and found it very helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561582867/ref=ox_ya_oh_product
Red -We will likely face the foundation and piers with rock but at present that's way down on my list :D
I'm sure I'll get there sometime!
csiebert- I couldn't agree more on the working alone book. Chock full of great hints for the solo builder.
I spent the past few days framing and got the first long wall up today. Framing went smoothly. I racked all the studs and cut the let-in just like PEG's thread shows. I was going to use the router but didn't have the right bit so I just cleaned it up with a chisel and I'm satisfied how the 2x6 sits in the groove.
Ended up framing the 36 foot wall in 3 sections so it only took 3 of us to lift each one.
It's amazing how much taller a wall looks when it's raised- especially when they're 12 ft tall!
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Looks good. You've got your hands full now that it's going up. Atleast you've got nice weather for it.
Thanks, Scott. Haven't the cooler temps lately been nice? So much more pleasant to work when you're not drenched in sweat! Now if it could just not rain until I get dried in..... :D
Looks great.
Good that you did the pole barn first. Ken Kern recommended building the shop first as it was necessary to have a place to work from for the house project.
Thanks, Glenn. The barn really proved its worth today as it began to rain early and didn't stop until later in the afternoon. I stayed dry while cutting all the lumber, carving out the let-in and assembling headers for the second long wall. Would have been a lost day if not for the barn! [cool]
I've spent the last week fighting rain almost every day :( Still, we've managed to get the four walls of the main gable framed, plumbed and capped.
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I've had the help of my mother, who at 61, is slinging a hammer with the best of them. She took a womens framing class at Yestermorrow Design/Build School in Vermont recently and that has proven quite valuable as I navigate through the framing process.
Sheathing has started and hopefully the tarp will keep the deck dry! As someone who will rely on rain for part of my water supply I hate to wish rain away but I wouldn't mind a little sun every now and then. ::)
The advantek hasn't proven to be as in-destructible as I'd expected. There is quite a bit of flaking and I'm noticing some rise at the edges between the panels. I don't know how much is too much and when I'd need to sand because I've never done this before. Anyone have any thoughts?
I'll start next on the shed roof portion off the north side of the gable. That should be easy compared to the 12 ft walls!
I found a great price on southern yellow pine 4x beams. They're about 60 % of what the DF cost. I read a lot about how SYP is strong but how there are certain varieties that don't have as much structural strength. Is there anyway to tell the difference or is it as long as they're #2 or better they should work fine? I guess I normally wouldn't give it a second thought but I was surprised that they cost so much less. I suppose it's because it's a much more local product and doesn't have to be shipped from as far away.
First residents
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It's an unwritten law of the universe. If you start to frame a house it will will trigger the longest rainy spell in the past 50 years.
Yeah, I think that's true, Scott. So given that, I figured if I put up a tarp to protect the deck it might suddenly stop. ;D .......
It's not working ???
The tarp won't have any effect but once you get the roof on a drought will start.
jdhen The problem with the advantex should not cause you any problems. Just a good example of Mother Natures superiority over man. When you go to lay the hardwood flooring just use a layer of # 15 or 30# felt as an underlayment. Chances are that if you decide to tile particular rooms you will use a rigid underlayment for that in the form of Hardee board or durarock and the thinset used will remove any irregularities that might exist. Not really taking any sides but I was pleased with the results of mine through a harsh winter in comparison with other products which I could have used which would have been disasterous for that exposure and time.
As for the residents. I am also oerwelmed with "grand daddy long legs". Harmless but annoying.
Looking good.
...looking nice. I like your line "Not building furniture" . There's a tendency to get too anal , on some things it matters on others not so much. Always a compromise of some form
It's not so much the spiders that bother us, it's the yellow jackets that have liked to call our new home "their home"!!
- keep on truckin
John- I'm glad to hear your opinion on the advantech. It's likely that the irregularities that I'm seeing are minor- I just don't have any experience to compare it to. There is one section where a fairly large chuck of wood has separated. It was a chip that's approximately 1.5"x 5" and maybe a 1/4-3/8" deep. This is an area where the wood flooring will be used. Is it necessary to use some sort of filler or will the hardwood be fine just spanning over the area?
Speed- I'm just repeating a gentle admonition by a friendly poster who I think wondered why I was being so picky with tolerances. I was "sweating the small stuff" as they say so he reminded me that buildings don't require the same perfection that fine furniture demands. I try to live by that but I have to admit that I've taken out my hand planer more than several times to make joists or studs meet "perfectly" together. ;D
As for the spiders, I couldn't be happier that these two have taken up residence. I've read that Daddy Long legs have been known to eat Brown Recluse. I was bitten by a Recluse last year and I don't wish to repeat the experience! Always check your socks before placing them on your feet! :)
Putting your Dear Old Mom to work is a very creative solution to your crew problem. I've got a lot of repairs to do on my place. My Mom is 86 and can't hit a nail very hard, but maybe she's strong enough to pick up my nail gun.
Maybe your Mom can help me out when you send her back to New England.
Keep up the good work.
POP
you mentioned that your mom got some experience at Yestermorrow. That's an interesting organization; I have one of their books and even thought about attending one of their hands-on classes.
Hey Pop- don't worry. I'm sure there will still be something to do when you make your next visit ;D
Poppy- My mother has taken several classes at Yestermorrow. She has nothing but high praise for what they do. She took a strawbale construction class and the other one I mentioned. She strongly recommends their organization.
I've been dodging the rain and have been able to get most of the 14x36 sheathed. It is very clear to me why framers like to do this while the wall is on the deck. I considered buying a pair of wall jacks and then selling them after wards but felt that this would put too much strain on the budget. I don't think I fully realized how difficult it would be to hoist a full 4x8 panel up to the 12 ft high wall- wow! At least it's done and I haven't injured myself or my mother, who helped.
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As you can see the tarp is not foolproof. The wind ripped part of it off sometime last night and let some water accumulate. It's still better than leaving it open to the elements and leaves me with a dry place to work inside when it is raining.
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I have a few questions: When can I remove the bracing for the walls? I know the end walls provide adequate bracing for the long walls where they are close to it but how about in the middle? I lined them and then added the cap plate with the braces holding it in line. Should I keep the middle braces on the long walls until I get the loft beams in place?
Also, can I use scraps of ply to fill in the space between the vertical and horizontal sheathing (provided they fall on center to the studs) or do I need to use 12 inch by 8 ft rips?
Yes, tarps make lousy roofs.
I would retain the bracing in the middle area of the walls until the ceiling joists or beams are in place to take the wind forces. Maybe even until the roof is done. As you install the ceiling joists or beams be certain to get the walls plumb and properly spaced at the upper plate. If that's off it will plague you later in many places/ways.
Re: that area between the lower and upper wall sheathing. If you were being inspected by a strict code inspector he would most likely want blocking as well. That's so all four edges of every piece of sheathing can be nailed every 6 inches. That does make a better wall.
looks like your in the same place as us tarped up in the rain and partially sheathed. We have 10 foot walls and have a two foot strip left to sheathe around the top of the building. We are happy we did just getting the sheets up to the second row was challenge enough.
Don- I knew I was going to need some sort of blocking as a fire stop but just up a bit higher. I will do as you say and use the blocking to give the panels a nailer- that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the advice.
Bob- We are in about the same place! I checked out your project page. Looks great! I'd like to see some pics of your tarp.
Sheathing is done on the main 14x36. It's the greatest feeling to suddenly have windows where before there were none!
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Next up is the north porch.
The weather has been perfect lately and I've been able to frame and sheath the north porch.
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I'm having cedar posts milled for the south porch and they should be ready later this week. I also picked out my rafters for the gable and both shed roofs so framing should start on that early next week if the good weather continues. I completed the let-in ledger today. The loft beams should be in by the end of the week.
I finished cutting out the windows including the awning windows that service the loft space.
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Those are not security cameras poking out of the roof but the supports for my tarp. I have a neighbor that just built a garage/living quarters on his land and unfortunately his door was kicked in and all of his tools were stolen. I'm sure I got cased but maybe the would be thieves thought they were being watched! ;D
Everythings going a little slower than I'd hoped - but I'm realizing this is typical. I haven't gotten too the gable roof yet. I'm still dodging the rain which seems to be every day!
Over the past 2 weeks I've added rafters to the north porch.
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and covered it with a tarp
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We placed the south porch/sunroom posts and added a built up 2x6 beam.
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The 4x10 beams were set on the ledger and bolted to the studs- wow, were those heavy! My wife and I managed to lift them into place without injuring ourselves.
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and a temporary floor was placed- well, sort of a floor.
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Today I added the supports for the ridge board and later this week we hope to start cutting rafters. The 2x4 is not the ridge board- I was just experimenting.
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I cut a mock up rafter and decided to go with this cut down of the rafter tails. The real ones will overhang about 8-10 inches. We'll use the h 2.5 clips to secure them to the top plate.
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Rain in the forecast through thursday :(
Looks great! You are really moving right along . . .
Thanks, Bayview. I'm still having fun :)
Got a few rafters in place yesterday. It was a rather cold and windy day so that put a bit of a damper on the fun aspect. I'd cut more rafters but we went slowly since we've never done any roof framing before.
My wife did a great job holding the rafters plumb while I nailed them to the ridgeboard
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Getting them in place was fairly using the thrust block technique recommened in Carroll's Working Alone book. The rafter just sat in place waiting to be nailed.
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At least the house is now starting to take some shape and not just look like a box.
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I had a guy stop last week wanting to know if I needed a bid on my flat roof. He thought the awning windows were for scuppers.
jdhen Toenailing is the common approach to securing the rafter to the plate. On my cabin I cut 2X blocks the width of the bay between two rafters and nailed them to the plate (on the flat)on every other bay. In addition to toenailing I attached the rafter to the 2X blocks. Maybe just a little overkill but reduced the chance of splittling the bottom of the rafter when toenailing and made them a little more secure.
I like the pictures of your thrust block technique for holding the rafter in place. Thanks for posting them.
I will likely me doing mine solo.
Looks like the fun has begun. You're off to a good start. :)
Jesse, nice to have the wife help out. Wish I were so lucky. It's solo for me.
Things are looking good. [cool]
Making good progress!
I like the thrust block technique, thanks for posting that :). My wife and I do the same thing as you two, she works the bottom and I work the top. She has the gun and I hold the top up until she gets her end nailed off where she wants it then I nail at the ridge. I also like to run a string on top of the ridge down the centerline from end to end. This lets me keep checking that we aren't putting a snake in it for any reason. Some diagonal 2x4's nailed under the rafters from plate to ridge help to rack brace the framing against a high wind until you get the sheathing on.
Well, we made out goal of getting the rafters up before Sunday! ( I have to work tomorrow)
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Still have to add subfacia, barge rafters and plumb cut the tails before sheathing but we're happy!
I did decide to pre cut the let-ins on the end rafters for the lookouts. I felt that it would be easier to use some sort of template to mark and transfer the cut outs on the plywood rather than climb the 12/12 pitch with my heavy worm drive saw to do it in place. I think I will take Redoverfarm's advice and install the barge and lookouts preassembled.
Several have commented on the thrust block. My wife and I were talking today and we can't imagine how much harder it would have been if we hadn't come across that one. Trying to hold the rafter in place and turn it so it's plumb with the layout lines--impossible! There are many other gems in John Carrolls book, Working Alone. I can't recommend it enough.
Don- I did manage to get 2- 14 ft 2x4's at each end crossing at least 7 rafters each. We also added several 1x4's to the other side. Should that be enough? It feels very stable.
Now, I need to rest! :P
I know that feels good. Yup you should be able to take some wind. I get nervous if just the braces on the poles are holding it all in rack. Until its sheathed its probably at its most tender stage. Looks like y'all are having this cold snap too, we're supposed to clear out and warm back up next week.
My way is definitely not for everyone but I install the lookouts a couple of inches long, chalk a line and trim them all to that in place straight line then install the subfascia. I use a lightweight sidewinder but its still not the safest move.
We didn't get as much done as we'd hoped to this past week. I was sick for a couple of days and when I wasn't sick it was raining.
We still got a couple of days of work in.
We added blocking and cut most of the rafter tails to size.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/015.jpg)
Got the barge rafters and subfacia attached to the north porch and started adding some sheathing panels. I forgot to purchase the H clips so I could only do one section.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/019.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/018.jpg)
And we also added rafters to the south porch/sun room.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/020.jpg)
This is the scene that greeted me as I arrived early this morning. Can't wait to wake to to that! Our bedroom will be upstairs facing east.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/007.jpg)
The fall foliage has peaked and many of the trees are now shedding their leaves. Still a little color around to enjoy. There are a few maples up on the hill. It's been beautiful fall.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/025.jpg)
I'm really looking forward to getting this thing dried in. Colder weather's just around the corner.
I'll be taking delivery of the windows this week. When I ordered them I thought I'd be further along. I won't install them until the roof sheathing and underlayment is on but I was wondering if they can be installed without house wrap in place? Seems to me I've seen photos of windows going in with just the tape flashing. Is this acceptable or is it better to have the wrap on first?
Still making good progress even with the delays. I think I would install the vapor barrier (house wrap or tar paper) before installing the windows and doors.
Quote from: jdhen on October 25, 2009, 09:25:09 PMI was wondering if they can be installed without house wrap in place? Seems to me I've seen photos of windows going in with just the tape flashing. Is this acceptable or is it better to have the wrap on first?
I asked PEG more or less the same thing... asked him if one way was better than the other. He said it can be done either way, sometimes one way makes more sense on a particular job, due to materials not coming when expected or weather or whatever.
Too bad you already cut the windows out. I papered our cabin first, then cut out installed the windows as I got them.
Here's a link to a Building Science article (PDF) on window installation and flashing before installing the building paper, just like you are asking about.
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0407-installing-a-window-with-building-paper-on-osb-over-wood-frame-wall/view?searchterm=window%20flashing (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0407-installing-a-window-with-building-paper-on-osb-over-wood-frame-wall/view?searchterm=window%20flashing)
The Building Science website has loads of good information.
Oh man, you are making me miss home. That looks great!
I may have to bring one of my daughters in for a Razorback game, some BBQ, and to harass old friends!
Very motivating!
Question: Did you use 3 2x10x10' ridge beams? If so, how did you nail them together? Or did you?
I'm planning on working on the roof of my 14x24 this weekend and the blocking idea for the rafters looks great!
Nice pic. of "red sky in the morning; sailor take warning."
Quote from: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
Very motivating!
Question: Did you use 3 2x10x10' ridge beams?
I used three sections of 2x10 ridge board with 2x6 rafters. I used a "scarf" joint positioned so a rafter pair was located over each joint.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/Woodworking-joint-scarf.gif)
Quote from: MountainDon on October 28, 2009, 03:10:06 PM
Quote from: OlJarhead on October 28, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
Very motivating!
Question: Did you use 3 2x10x10' ridge beams?
I used three sections of 2x10 ridge board with 2x6 rafters. I used a "scarf" joint positioned so a rafter pair was located over each joint.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/Woodworking-joint-scarf.gif)
Do you need 2x10's for a 2x6 rafter? I was thinking 2x8 would work?
The scarf joint I assume is on edge? 45 degree angles cut so the boards fit like one? Did you glue and nail them once up?
I'm thinking I can do two 2x8x12's or 2x10x12's joined in the middle to meet the 24' length. This means I'll need a temp support at the end and the center (where there is no loft -- though I may put in a gang way there).
Gotta go look at the plans again to get my head wrapped around making the rafters. My plan is to cut two, make sure they work and then use them as templates for the rest.
Actually you caught me in a mistake: I did use 2x8's for the ridge board, but that may depend on the pitch of the roof. ???
Better image...
(http://woodzone.com/Merchant2/images/glossary/scarfpict.jpg)
Remember to place the scarf joint so there is a rafter pair at the joint. I used 4 temporary supports for my 30+ foot ridge board.
I had two joints so had to waste a little to get them to line up with the rafters. I also allowed excess length at each outermost end and trimmed them to size later.
I also used a piece of scrap board as a scab patch until I cme to place the rafters at the joint.
Oljarhead- I actually used 3 -2x12's and there was still a gap where the rafters aren't touching the ridge. The plumb cut of a 2x10 rafter with 12/12 pitch is approximately 13 inches. I left the gap at the top as everyone recommended. Also I connected the ridges as MD describes using the scarf joint. I predrilled the holes for the nails since it's very close to the end of each board and nailed them perpendicular to the cut. The difficulty is keeping the scarf joint together as you nail. It always wants to slide. The second scarf joint in the illustration that MD posted would solve this problem. I found that predrilling through both boards and setting the nail in the first one so that you can line it up with the other helps.
I used 4 supports and positioned 2 of them directly under the 2 scarf joints so I didn't need to scab the ridge boards. I miscalculated and didn't get the splices exactly at the joint but I used some metal plates to reinforce. Interestingly, I have 2 books that suggest that the splices should go at a rafter pair and another that states that it should break between. I guess both would work ???
Good luck!
Mountain Don- You mentioned that you wrapped and then cut out the windows. When you cut the plywood did you remove the section of wrap that's over the window space? From what I've been reading there's some sort of inverted wineglass cut that allows you to wrap the flaps into the window space around the jambs and sill. Is this what you did?
Also, would you mind going over some of the finer points of wrapping the house. Like you I plan to use felt and I'd like to get it as tight and smooth as you did! I assume you just start at the bottom and wrap but do you go as far as you can with the whole, or is it better to precut a certain length? It looked like you overlapped every corner. Anyway, any pointers would be appreciated! :)
I precut the #15 felt to length inside the cabin on the floor. For the first 30 foot side I cut it just under 30 feet feet long. I then took the roll outside. Karen assisted on this part as it would be difficult to impossible alone. :o I lined up the lower edge near one corner and drove a plastic cap nail in near the upper edge; just that one nail to start. Then we rolled it out for about 12 to 15 feet and lined up the lower edge again and secured it with another nail. We pulled the felt as taught as we could before nailing. Then we rolled it out to the corner and I went back securing it with plastic cap nails every 24 inches. Most of the nails hit the studs. Then we repeated up the wall. The higher levels were a little tricky as we had to move ladders along.
When I did the subsequent walls I cut the lengths long and wrapped the corners.
As mentioned I wrapped the building before cutting out the windows in the OSB. I didn't have the windows on hand when I erected the walls and to me it was more important to wrap the walls. I cut the windows out with a reciprocating saw. I did not worry about trying to do an x-cut and wrapping the felt inside. I can't see how that would make any difference to the finished product. The window has silicone sealant under the top and side flanges as well as having the self adhesive flashing installed. I did follow the Grace Vycor flashing instructions.
That is except for where I messed up on two windows. I forgot to place the top flap of felt over the upper flange of the window and then flashing the top. The lap is under the top flange. n* However, with the large overhang and the window tops way up there I don't believe any driven rain that may occur will ever get in there to cause a problem. The self adhesive lashing stuck very well anyhow.
The felt will wrinkle and bubble if it gets wet. The moisture makes it expand. It looks messy but that is fine. When it dries out the felt goes flat again.
It rained many times after the wall and roof felt was installed and before the interior was finished. No water came through even though some of the rain was pushed by a lot of wind.
I used some 1 inch and some 1 1/4 inch button cap nails. The 1 inch were long enough to do the job but were a pain to hold in place to nail. The longer ones were easier to hold.
There were a few spots where we had to overlap the ends as one roll ran out an we started a new one. We overlapped them by a good foot or two and used more nails along the overlap.
Thanks, Don. That's exactly what I needed. :)
One question: How much overlap on each upper section? I think on roofing they say 4-5 inches. About the same for walls?
I'm going to step back to the ridgeBOARD splice for a minute just to help clear it up for others reading. It's not load bearing, the splice is not critical. a ridgeBOARD is simply something to nail rafters to. I scarf is fine if it floats your boat, I splice in a bay between rafters and cover both sides with blocks that run from rafter to rafter, some guys do a V cut. But the thing to remember is that this is not a beam and no joinery you do will make it one. I didn't want anyone thinking a scarf would somehow turn this into a load bearing ridge :).
Quote from: jdhen on October 30, 2009, 06:15:41 AM
How much overlap on each upper section?
Since it's vertical 2 - 3 inches should suffice.
Since I had a nine foot height to cover I didn't worry about how much to over lap the felt on the walls. We overlapped by a foot or so and used 4 full width strips down the sides. I could have cut a 3 foot wide piece in hal and overlap less but it was easier to use the full width.
I you have an actual 8 foot height you could do the wall with three strips with 6 inch overlaps.
Sorry if I'm highjacking your thread Jesse, but Don_P's comment:
QuoteI didn't want anyone thinking a scarf would somehow turn this into a load bearing ridge .
prompted a question.
What would be the easiesl way to extend a cantilevered joist about 16"? I was thinking about a scarf joint. That's the situation I have for a joist for the bump out.
Im no engineer but I would guess the easiest way would be to sister the joists by nailing another piece of 2 by that runs back 32 inches and 16 inches further in the direction you want to go.
Let's see if I understand correctly. There's a floor joist (or more) that is already cantilevered, and you wish to extend the amount of the cantilever?
_______________________
X X
where X = the support beams and the red line = the amount to be extended? ???
Can't be done like illustrated. So I hope I misinterpreted what you mean. A drawing would help.
The cantilever could be increased but would need to be done with an extra piece of joist material that would extend back into the main section of the floor: about 1/4 cantilever to 3/4 back and supported by the beams, plus secured to the main joist.
If the joist was not already cantilevered you would still have the same problem. A scarf joint is not structurally strong enough for extending floor joists.
Yea, Don your sketch is about right. I was just trying to figure out a way to avoid a joist extension that went all the way back to the other beam.
I understand that a scarf joint would not be as strong as the joist, but that much strength is not necessarily required since the joist needing extending is between two engineered I beams that are full length and tie into a 6x6 sill timber. The extended joist would only support some floor that is within the bump out that won't really have any load on it since it will be below a built in seat.
Bob's solution may be the easiest but with a little longer sister joist.
I don't want to clutter Jesse's thread any longer so I will pose more questions or possible solutions in General on in my build thread.
Quote from: MountainDon on October 29, 2009, 11:20:14 AM
I used some 1 inch and some 1 1/4 inch button cap nails. The 1 inch were long enough to do the job but were a pain to hold in place to nail. The longer ones were easier to hold.
When the nails are so short they're hard to hold while you start them, stick 'em (one at a time) between the teeth of your pocket comb to make a handle. Saves the digits!
Another way to hold short nails is to turn your hand over, palm up. Put the nail between your first two fingers, head between the pads of your fingers, point down between the fingernails. Now when you hit it you aren't mashing your fingernails.
Quote from: Don_P on November 01, 2009, 10:06:30 PM
Another way to hold short nails is to turn your hand over, palm up. Put the nail between your first two fingers, head between the pads of your fingers, point down between the fingernails. Now when you hit it you aren't mashing your fingernails.
Thats what I do when driving button/cap nails. Even if you hit the fingers no fowl.
The weather has been cooperating and should continue for the next 7 days or so. I think it has rained for the last time inside the house [cool].
We hopefully should have the roof fully sheathed by the end of the week :)
A few days ago we placed the barge rafters and lookouts. I was planning to install them as a unit as Redoverfarm suggested but it proved to be too much weight for just my wife and me. Instead we rigged up a couple of holders using clamps and scrap pieces of wood to support the barge without either of us having to hold the ends.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/001.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/003.jpg)
This way my wife could steady the ladder as I climbed to the top to nail the barge to the ridge board (we couldn't stop to takes pics of this :-) This was the first time in the building process where I felt true fear! It was only 23 feet but the ladder was at full extension and didn't feel all that stable. Plus, it wasn't tall enough to rest against the barge and instead I set it against the temporary ridge beam support so that I had to lean back and look straight up while I hammered...not easy.
I'm sure someone will explain an easier and safer way to to this but it was all I could come up with and at least it's done!
Since then we've sheathed 2/3's of the north side gable and started on the south.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/036.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/013.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/032.jpg)
I'm saving the very top for last! The 12/12 is very steep. I'm glad to have the shed roofs off the gable. They've made it relatively easy to sheath as they provide a stable staging area. The one part of the south gable that lacks a shed roof has been very difficult and scary and I would have hired out the sheathing if not for the sheds.
jdhen when you get to the last course I would either nail a cleat (2X material) to stand on or use roof jacks. You should be able to attach a rope and pull the sheet(from the opposite side) up to where it will rest on the previous. Then adjust and secure. I might have missed your post whether you are using shingles or metal. Either one will be fun. One more than the other. If shingled then a couple pair of roof jacks would be worth their weight in gold. Nice progress.
Everything looks really fine.
Did you lose the safety harness? Just wondering.
POP
Red- I got the roof jacks plus I ordered 2 ladder hooks and I have a safety harness. After hearing of Bob's slip off of his roof I figured I couldn't be too careful.
We plan on using metal which I think we'll hire out. We're still debating on whether or not to spend the extra $ for standing seam ( I love the idea of hidden fasteners). I installed the metal roof on our pole barn but that pitch wasn't quite 5/12. I really can't imagine doing the 12/12.
I've got a question for everyone about collar ties. I've read several places that they're ideally located at 2/3's between top plate and peak. If I stick to that then my ceiling in the loft will be about 7'-4". Does anyone think I would compromise the strength of the ties if I raised them enough to get 7'-8" or even 8 feet?
No, Pop. I didn't lose the harness. It's in use when I can't stand on the shed roof. Don't worry, I'm being careful! :)
I'm not sure if we're on the same page here so I'll describe both.
Rafter ties that prevent the roof from spreading are ideally at the wall plate and can be floor or ceiling joists. They may be raised as much as 1/3 of the height of the roof but rafters need to be upsized as they are raised. Do not raise them above the lower third of height.
Collar ties or ridge straps that hold the rafters together at the peak against uplift (think of a high wind getting inside and trying to blow the roof apart) are located in the upper third of roof height, can be tight under the ridge or can be metal straps over the ridge.
I usually install the lookouts before the fly (barge, verge..). I install them a couple of inches long then snap a line down them and cut them off in a straight line in place then attach the fly to them. That way I'm basically climbing a ladder of lookouts while I'm up there. I'm very conscious of where my weight is while doing this and keep myself centered over the notched rafter.
Nice job so far. I like the shed rooms visually too on your shelter.
We to are trying to decide between standing seam and wondered what you found the price difference to be? I think our tin roof was around $1 a sq foot for our firstday.
Jeff
Yes, Don, I do mean collar ties as you describe them. I just wasn't sure that when I read that they should be located at 2/3's of the distance above the top plate that if I placed them closer to 3/4 above top plate that that wouldn't compromise their usefulness. It seems like you indicate that they should be in the upper third so I'm guessing you would say that it would be ok for me to raise them a few inches higher than I originally had planned.
I can see how installing the lookouts first would have made things a bit easier but it was the cutting with a heavy saw that worried me! But having that lookout "ladder" would have been safer. I've now used it extensively as I sheathe the roof.
Thanks, Jeff.
I haven't had any hard bids yet for the roofing but in talking with several contractors I'm finding prices at about $180-200 a square for a screw down roof and $350-400 for standing seam. So, what's that- 2-4 dollars a sq foot? Just about double for the standing seam. But I really hate leaks and I have a relative who had the neoprene washers go bad after only a few years. I think it had a lot to do with how they were installed (overtightened). I just like the fact that the screws are under the metal instead of going through the metal! We'll see....
Yeah... the idea of replacing all those screws doesn't really excite myself either. I would imagine it's just a matter of time before the suns uv rays bake the washers dry , they crack and leak.
That price is for an install right?
Thanks for the pricing...that helps. Standing seam is supposed to last a long long time. Looked at copper (way to much lol) , aluminium might be an option.
I wonder what the difference in installation time and ease is? Our roof is 3/12 by design so we can do it ourself's. Roofs like yours scare me, not a big fan of heights, esp 12/12 .... :o
Yes, it's materials and labor.
You might look into the factory cut snap lock standing seam panels. Some of them have a few exposed fasteners but it's still a step up from screw down. I'd consider using those and doing it myself if the pitch wasn't so steep.
Placed the last sheathing panel today on the gable so I'm thrilled to be done with that!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/021.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/022.jpg)
I'm hoping to get my walls finished this weekend (crossing fingers) and if so will begin the roof framing. I've not worked on a roof in a long time and while I was a sure footed young man at 260lbs and 44 I'm thinking the harness for my treestand might come in handy :) Some rope, a D-Ring and a good hitch to the witch on the Jeep on the opposite side might be a good idea!
Now, the roof jacks I'm interested in and will have to go look for some as well as the ladder hooks.
I need to get a couple ladders too while I'm at it.
My plan is to use the loft as much as possible for the framing and to have my son hold sheets from at the first stage of sheeting (he can be inside and assist securing sheets while I position to install.
I've also got to look at your design -- I like it. Did you use 14' rafters instead of the 12' ones? Also, I'm assuming you notched the gable end rafters for 2x4's to install the ladder for the gabled ends to extend the roof? I also like this idea as it helps with shading in the summer and keep raini, snow and icicles out of the loft windows and away from the lower windows in the winter etc.
Now if I could print all this out ...hmmm
Oljarhead- Get the ladder hooks. They were the most help of any of the equipment I used. They're made by qual-craft. Some ace hardware stores stock them but since none do around here I ordered them off of amazon. They cost about $25 each. You're supposed to use 2 per ladder but I cheated since I needed 2 ladders and I only weigh about 145 lb (probably less since the building started ;D - note to self- stop to eat more)
The harness is also a great idea. Not only does it make you feel safer, but it also gives you a rope to leverage yourself higher or lower. For me, the roof jacks only came in handy for the area that lacked a shed roof. Otherwise, they would have ended up in the way of my longer ladder. You may want to use them at least along the lower edge of your roof once you get the first row in place so you can stage from there. Then, the second row could be brought up through the rafters from the loft. For the last row, you rip the sheets down to about 36 inches (of course, that will depend on how much overhang you decide) and those have to be brought up from the eaves because there's not enough room left to bring it through the rafters.
If you add subfacia, you can use a scrap block and clamp as a stop so you can position the first sheets. It's a lot easier to do that then have someone holding the sheet from above.
I did pre-notch the gable end rafters for the lookouts although I wish I hadn't because I changed the length of my eave overhang after doing this, forgetting that it would change where the sheathing meets. Now instead of breaking over the center of the lookout, the gap meets a 1/4 inch off the lookout. :( And I plan on open cornice. Oh well, that's what happens when you're a rookie [noidea'
The rafters are 12 ft 2x10's. Once trimmed they measure 10'-11".
One caveat: All of this "advice" is coming from someone who's done this exactly one time. I'm no expert, but I am proud of the fact that it's done and everything is completely square :)
Good luck!
Great thanks!
Not sure I understood the change on the lookouts (eaves?)....I want to extend my roof beyond the gabled end wall for an eave and out over the sides like yours (I wasn't going to at first).
So the notching out of the end rafter seemed like a brilliant way to accomplish the ladder building and make it strong. No? What would another option be?
I've ordered my materials (delivery Monday) and I'm blooming stoked now! I've also stolen your pictures so I can ponder them some more.
While I used to frame years ago, I've forgotten so much I am a rookie once again so don't feel bad. Besides, your roof work is inspiring me! Now I can't wait to crank up the saw and get the hammer ringing!
Yonderosa, you busy Monday? hehe
Sorry, I didn't make that clear. I was wishing I hadn't pre-cut the notches in the rafters before installing them as opposed to cutting them individually after they were placed. The problem for me was that I made changes to the overhang after cutting them. I had intended for the lookouts to be in the right place so that the sheathing panels would butt together over them but that didn't work when I changed my overhang distance. The panels now start 2 1/2 inches further down than I'd originally intended so instead of breaking over the lookout they are 1/2 inch or so below.
I would still recommend ganging them together and pre cutting.....just make sure you know what your overhang is before. And if you plan on soffits it probably doesn't matter anyway. Maybe an expert can chime in here. I just care because my eaves will be open.
Really exposed plywood under the eaves isn't ideal anyway. I should have used a tongue and groove board but no product I looked at matched the 1/2 inch plywood that I'd already purchased so I just decided to go with it. Hopefully it will hold paint :)
So, yes I think building the lookout ladder is the way to go.
Have fun framing!
Aha, I understand. It's important to frame the ladder on 24" centers from the bottom of the rafter to the top so that when the sheeting meets at 4' there is a ladder rung to nail to thus making more secure. I think that's what you mean -- makes sense.
Good advise all around. I am however, having trouble finding a roofing ladder but will at least be able to frame the roof and get one row of sheeting down at the least I think. This provides a framework for a tarp/tent roof if I have to -- desperation.
Then with some luck I can get the rest done over the next few weeks.
You certainly aren't the first one to miss the lookouts. I've used clips there just like the rest of the roof or put a vertical 2x alongside the overhang side of the lookout if there was soffit under there.
This method is fast and generally works however since we have people reading from all over, it doesn't work everywhere. Best practice and in high snow load areas especially, standing the lookouts up on edge over a wall or dropped gable truss is preferred. Its the difference between loading a board flatways or on edge. Like many things...it depends.
Very nice progress!
Thanks, NM Shooter. I feel like I've come a long way since you instructed me to repeat the "not making furniture" statement. I get a good laugh now when I look at my concerns in the early part of the thread. I guess building your own house makes you grow up quick ;D
Made a little more progress this week on the house but adding infrastructure became the main focus.
I finished the sub facia and sheathing on the south porch.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/019-1.jpg)
Added collar ties
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/010-1.jpg)
2x8's were what I had on hand so that's what I used.
My septic guy showed up and had some time this week so he began the install on the septic system. He's turned out to be a great resource and has been very generous with his time. He cost a little more than other installers I'd talked to but I could tell he knew what he was doing so I went with him. With all the additional work he's done it's likely made him much cheaper than the others. First, he ordered extra rock so I could improve drainage on the uphill side of the house.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/003-1.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/009.jpg)
Then he convinced me that now was a great time to trench and lay the service cable from the meter to the house. I was going to let an electrician handle that but he explained the process and it seemed doable. I tried to buy the supplies from electric supply company but they could tell I really didn't know what I was doing so they wanted me to double check on what I needed before buying. That proved to be a real benefit because I called an electrician who I haven't even committed to yet and he came out and looked at the site and ordered the supplies for me and saved me more than 80 cents a foot on the cable and who knows how much on the conduit. He had no problem letting me do the install and didn't charge me a thing for his time. I think I have found my electrician.
My wife and I got a good workout threading the conduit over the service wire. Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, threading the 90 sweeps just about killed me! Still, we managed to get it done and it was a relief to bury it all in the ground!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/013-1.jpg)
The metal roof is next so I hope my good luck with contractors continues. I get my first bid today.
Very nice. I had to pay contractors as consultants to advise me a few times when I did my Berkeley renovation. Boy, they charge a fortune out there!
Your countryside looks just like mine here. I'm in NE OK, so it comes as no big surprise, though.
Moving right along there!
Parks
We took a week off for Thanksgiving and a trip to Texas to see my wife's family but we're back at it now. The time off felt rejuvenating.
We've started felting the house and installing windows. I couldn't get it as tight as Mountain Don's and then when it rained yesterday it drooped even more :-[ Oh well, it should still do the job.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/007-1.jpg)
These are basically interior windows as they look in on what will be the sun porch so I haven't felted or taped around them.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/015-1.jpg)
The view
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/014.jpg)
We've also started framing in some rooms on the north porch section.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/012.jpg)
We were hoping to have the standing seam roof placed in the next week or so but our roofer called us and gave us the unfortunate news that one of his main employees fell from a roof last week and is hospitalized with a serious head injury. That's put a delay on his schedule.
I've taken delivery of the loft decking-2x6 t&G. We should start laying it down this weekend.
Quote from: jdhen on December 07, 2009, 08:42:52 PM
I couldn't get it as tight as Mountain Don's and then when it rained yesterday it drooped even more :-[ Oh well, it should still do the job.
It'll tighten up as it dries. Once the siding is on nobody will ever know. ;)
jdhen if you are going to stain the floor/ceiling of the T&G it might be wise to do so prior to install. I don't know whether I mentioned in your thread previously or not. If natural then there is not a problem with pre-fiinishing before install. If stained afterward the joints will undoubtly open and there will be an area that is unfinished appear. I am not sure if you mentioned before of your intentions but thought I would throw that out.
Quote from: MountainDon on December 07, 2009, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: jdhen on December 07, 2009, 08:42:52 PM
I couldn't get it as tight as Mountain Don's and then when it rained yesterday it drooped even more :-[ Oh well, it should still do the job.
It'll tighten up as it dries. Once the siding is on nobody will ever know. ;)
That's true, Don, but it will be exposed for a while :-[ For the life of me, I can't figure out how you got yours so tight!
Quote from: Redoverfarm on December 07, 2009, 11:06:31 PM
jdhen if you are going to stain the floor/ceiling of the T&G it might be wise to do so prior to install. I don't know whether I mentioned in your thread previously or not. If natural then there is not a problem with pre-fiinishing before install. If stained afterward the joints will undoubtly open and there will be an area that is unfinished appear. I am not sure if you mentioned before of your intentions but thought I would throw that out.
Red- I don't plan any stain. I'd like to leave it natural but I was reading ( I think speedfunk's page) that pine can yellow? I'm not sure I know what that means exactly. I feel like I should seal it with something but I really want to use a natural product. Another poster mentioned linseed oil but others have told me it would be too tacky for a floor. Not sure what to do... :-\
Quote from: jdhen on December 08, 2009, 06:37:33 AM
Quote from: Redoverfarm on December 07, 2009, 11:06:31 PM
jdhen if you are going to stain the floor/ceiling of the T&G it might be wise to do so prior to install. I don't know whether I mentioned in your thread previously or not. If natural then there is not a problem with pre-fiinishing before install. If stained afterward the joints will undoubtly open and there will be an area that is unfinished appear. I am not sure if you mentioned before of your intentions but thought I would throw that out.
Red- I don't plan any stain. I'd like to leave it natural but I was reading ( I think speedfunk's page) that pine can yellow? I'm not sure I know what that means exactly. I feel like I should seal it with something but I really want to use a natural product. Another poster mentioned linseed oil but others have told me it would be too tacky for a floor. Not sure what to do... :-\
Mimwax Polycrylic I don't believe it will yellow the pine. I have been using it for a number of years and I prefer it over others. A little on the costly side in comparison to oil based but so much easier to use and the drying time is probably 1/4 of oil.
Thanks, John. I'll look into the Minwax.
I've read in another post where you screwed through the tongue to fasten the decking down. Is it necessary to use a counter sink bit to drill the pilot hole and recess the screw head? I wasn't sure if the head would get in the way of the next groove if not recessed. I have 3 and 3.25 inch deck screws- I'm guessing this is what you used?
Also, did you use a clamp to pull the boards very tightly together before screwing or is it better to just take the bow out of the board and snug it gently to the next one? The reason I ask is that for the t&g advantec floor, it was spaced just right so that the tongue did not insert completely into the groove. I suppose that's because it is likely to be exposed to wet weather and much more expansion and contraction but I didn't know if it's prudent to do the same to the 2x6 decking.
jdhen I used a multitude of means to lay my T&G down. It depends on the size of your room and the condition of the T&G. For mine I had prefinished and they did not retain their original alignment afterwards meaning that either the board were not completely dry ( appeared to be) or the fact they were left uninstalled for a long period of time. Anyway my room was 15'2" wide X 22'long and the T&G was laid parrallel to the 22' length.
Depending on the condition of your T&G generally it will go together a little tight but by cutting a corresponding block (scrap) to match the tounge profile and hammering will usually tighten the joint. For some stubborn board I used some pipe clamps to draw them together. They also make a joist puller which is sort of a cantelever device which fits over the joist and when pulled pushes the board at that location tight. But I found that if the beams are exposed they will leave a mark on both sides of the exposed beam( actually made for floor joist where the joist will be hidden). I used a piece of thin stock between the pins against the beams and the beams themself. But if you go to find one they are normally made for 1-1/2" demensions so you will need the additional piece to fit the 3-1/2", If they are just a little bowed then a chissel drove into the top of the beam against the tounge and pulled will bring them in line.
The standard flooring nailer will not work. There is not enough nail to hold in the beams. Maybe the staple floor nailer will work with long staples. I opted for deck screws which actually work well but it was time consuming. There was no need to pre-drill with standard deck screws if they were placed properly. I put them in at a 45 deg angle (more or less) starting at the intersection of the tounge and the verticle portion going up to the face. You can also move up the face a little more if you can get the screw tip to bite ( start at a level decent and then just bend it up as you start setting the screw).
Not sure what your T&G condition is but they normally mill the T&G to a true side that usually will be the V-groove. The plank side will not be as true fitting so there may be gaps in the loft side when in fact the touge and groove is depressed on the V-groove side. For me that was not a problem and it made the floor appear to be rustic for the cabin.
Sorry for the length of the post, I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss anything. Probably did anyway but that is the meat of the subject. Anything else just ask.
Also Zinszer(sp?) makes a similar product as Mimwax at a lower cost but I haven't tried it before so I am not sure what the results might be. The last gallon (of many) that I bought was about $36 for Polycrylic.
Your post was not too long- that's exactly what I needed to know! Thanks very much.
My T&G is as you described with the v groove underneath. They are #1 lumber but there is some wane which they always placed at the v groove side. The plank sides looked quite good although there were a few small knots that have fallen out and will need to be filled. What is best to use for that? There are various wood fillers but I've read about latex, lacquer-based, epoxy etc and don't know what would be best. Did you need to use anything to repair your T&G?
Jdhen I did not try to repair any defects in mine. If the knots have completely fell out it will take a good bit of filler and I am not sure whether it will hold in the joint with the movement of the wood. If they are not real big you could drill out the defected areas and insert plugs, to the corresponding drill size to create a new "knot hole" of course sanding flush. On defects within the body or center they would probably hold filler. I have used various kinds and some work better than others but to single out one particular brand or kind it is usually what I have on hand that get's used. ;) Maybe Peg or Don_P will chime in and give you their preference.
Nice progress on the house and beautiful part of the country. Im sure it feels great to be almost water tight. I was wondering about rafter ties. I see you have collar ties to prevent up lift but no rafter ties to prevent spreading forces. From the information I've read, I thought that if the floor joists of the loft did not directly tie into the rafters, creating a rafter tie/floor joist, per the stock little house plans, then those walls would be prone to spreading. I understand that the bottom 8 foot of the walls are fine because of the loft floor joists placed, but am concerned that the 4ft knee wall extending into the loft may be affected by outward thrust. beavers had told me that if i wanted the extra loft head room that i should go with a ridge beam instead of a ridge board, so that the beam would take most of the load of the roof. the ridge beam is supported by posts that take the roof load all the way down to the foundation. i hope im wrong and that your roofing system is structurally sound as is. someone please correct me. by the way, any good flyfishing in those parts?
These are questions that came to my attention only after I began to build the roof. I am a complete novice and have been simply trusting of the plans that I bought. In John's plans he lists the option for a raised roof at the loft by increasing the sidewall height. In the description he notes that the double top plate, collar ties and loft joists all help to form a rigid triangle the resits the outward forces. Incidentally, my father-in-law is an architect and he concurs with this.
I know that more than a few posters feel that a ridge beam is the appropriate way to do this. I have no choice but to continue with what I'm doing and hope for the best.
I do feel good about the fact that others have gone before me and are having success. Micky's cabin is 20ft wide with 12 ft sidewalls like mine and he's used what looks like collar beams on 4 ft centers. He framed his roof with a ridge board. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=982.60
Paul Alton did what I am doing with a 14 ft wide and 12 ft sidewalls. Again, ridge board and collar ties.
http://www.paulalton.com/updates/shopstudio2009.html
Considerations went with 10 ft sidewalls and no collar ties. And there are likely other examples.
The other thing that I feel good about is the fact that I have shed roofs on either side of the gables. It's bound to impart some rigidity and also help to resist outward forces. Each side is attached at a little more than 28 inches below the top plate.
I can say that after reading others opinions I became a bit afraid that my house that I've been working so hard on would fall down on me someday. I am going to add some additional bracing when I frame in the walls in the loft. I plan on using metal straps attached to the rafters just above the top plate which I will run diagonally back to the loft beams. (each 2x4 wall is located on top of a beam) This will create a triangular brace that I hope will also help to resist the outward forces. The three walls that I will do this on are mainly toward the center of the building where spreading is most at risk.
Hope this answers your question.
That makes sense. Good idea to use those straps. I get the idea of what your saying but if you get a chance to post up a picture of those straps when you get them installed I would appreciated that. Like they say, a pictures worth a thousand words. I guess alot of it depends on roof loads as well. I doubt you get much snow down there. I really like the way the loft looks with the 4 ft knee walls by the way, pretty roomy. I really want to avoid using a ridge beam if possible due to price, extra footings for the support posts, and im not sure how id get the heavy sucker up there without a crane or something. Anyways, glad to hear that others have been framing their roofs like yours without any problems.
Personally I would not worry at all with the 4 foot kneewalls as long as they are semi-balloon framed with the let in ledger as you have done.
If they were platform framed with a short 4 foot wall on top of the 8' wall, then you would have something to worry about. That would create a hinge point that would be a problem.
Lookin good jdhen! You're gonna have a really nice home for you & your family!
Glenn- thanks for the reassurance. I remember reading discussions along that line in the past. I feel confident that I'm building a stong and long lasting home.
Sassy- thanks for the comments. My wife and I can't wait to move in!!
Ishallenb- I will post the pics as I build. Also- I forgot to answer one of your questions- I'm not a fisherman so I'm not sure about the fly fishing. I think most of the best fishing is on the larger lakes in the region. There may be some trout fishing on the buffalo river.
I wouldn't be worried if it was in my back yard. I do agree the porch roofs will act as diaphragms to stiffen the kneewalls. The balloon framed kneewalls add considerable resistance to the potential thrust.
One way I can explain what little I know is to see how much potential stress is in a raised tie if the rafter bottoms sat on roller skates. In that case if there was a total load of 25 lbs/square foot there would be about 700 lbs of vertical load sitting on each rafter pair. If the tie was across the bottom of the rafters there would be 350 lbs of tension in the tie connection. Think about the leverage against that connection as the tie is raised... Raising the tie up to 2' below the ridge there would be about 1225 lbs of tension in the connection. Nails are good for about 100 lbs each optimistically. If they go through and are clinched they pick up about 20% more IIRC. This is beyond codebook but if there were about 14 nails in each end of the tie, that would restrain the thrust not counting on the additional strength of the roof diaphragm, the kneewall, or the porch roof.
Quote from: jdhen on November 14, 2009, 07:26:11 AM
Then he convinced me that now was a great time to trench and lay the service cable from the meter to the house. I was going to let an electrician handle that but he explained the process and it seemed doable. I tried to buy the supplies from electric supply company but they could tell I really didn't know what I was doing so they wanted me to double check on what I needed before buying. That proved to be a real benefit because I called an electrician who I haven't even committed to yet and he came out and looked at the site and ordered the supplies for me and saved me more than 80 cents a foot on the cable and who knows how much on the conduit. He had no problem letting me do the install and didn't charge me a thing for his time. I think I have found my electrician.
My wife and I got a good workout threading the conduit over the service wire. Just when I thought it couldn't get worse, threading the 90 sweeps just about killed me! Still, we managed to get it done and it was a relief to bury it all in the ground!
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YIKES,jd... I wouldn't have had the balls to even try to put those wires in anything smaller than 3 inch conduit! I admire your tenacity. Your place is looking great!
Take Care,
Greg
Thanks for the compliment, Greg. Had I known it would be so hard I would have purchased some 3 inch conduit! Hey, at least it's done. :)
With the help of a friend I installed the woodstove chimney and built a chase around it. My roofer suggested that the chase would be easier to flash and be less maintenance. He will wrap it with metal shingles that will look like metal cinder blocks.
I'm pleased with how it came out. It anchors the double wall pipe quite well. With the cold we've been having I can't wait to get the stove in place!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/004-1.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/001-1.jpg)
Just a few more windows and a couple of doors and I'll be dried in! The roofer should set the underlayment tomorrow.
Nice job on the electric. That service wire is thick and bulky. You got it though and no wires to the house :) . I'm happy your almost dried in.. your place looks really cool. I like how you stopped the roof from going all the way over on the front porch as well. It adds a neat dimension to the place.
Thanks, Jeff. I've been admiring your progress as well. You decide yet on the type of metal for your roof? Our standing seam should be installed next week. A little over 14 sq for $5500. The screw down would have been around $3800. I think it's worth the extra $.
We decided on the shortened porch because we didn't want too much shade in the living room. It looks a little different but we like that we get direct sunlight in the room during the winter until about 2:30pm. Where we live now there are long overhangs at the eaves and it's way too dark in many parts of the house.
1 door and 2 windows to go!
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In that last pic I see you used the good underlay material for the metal roof. And it's also nice to see that someone knows how to flash a window. Keep it up.
Wow, its a castle!
This project is coming along very nicely!
Just shows what a classic simple building with the right additions and extensions can become. :D :D :D
Good looking build there, Jesse.
The box around the stove pipe looks like a decent way to handle the finish work and flashing. Do you have any detail pics. of that assembly?
Thanks all, for the positive comments! It's that kind of encouragement that keeps you going :)
Poppy, unfortunately I didn't document the construction of the chimney chase very well. An experienced carpenter friend helped me turn a simple sketch into a sturdy support for the woodstove pipe. It's basically a framed box but the challenge was nailing a box together with a 45 degree angle on one end. We stood there and scratched our heads more that a few times! We cobbled the frame together, lag screwed it to the roof from below and then sheathed it in place.
Originally, I was planning on flashing the pipe with a typical rubber boot but my roofer suggested this and I think it will work out quite well.
All doors and windows are in ;D
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Jesse, We are leaning 95% toward standing seam. Thanks so much for posting the price, that helps a lot as I have not looked into the cost yet. I agree for that little amount I feel it's well worth it also, good decision.
The big thing for us is the way out the roof overhangs are constructed ... or not constructed really lol. There's not rafters supporting the roof overhang becuase we stopped them short to allow an envelope of insulation. I think that the extra strength of the standing seam will allow the metal to overhang more. Our firstday cottage has corrugated steel and it's kind of wimpy. We need TUFF!! Is there a brand or type of standing seam your having installed. Again I have not looked into this to much as I'm thinking it will be spring before the roof gets installed (winter over with just typar) we will see.
It looks like things are moving really well for you! It's nice to have natural light..I actualy think the porch roof looks better the way you did it versus going all the way down the house.
Jeff- Our roofer is custom rolling our metal on site. I did, however, look into factory cut panels first when I considered doing it myself.
Check out this website
http://www.michianabuildingsupplies.com/index.htm?http://www.michianabuildingsupplies.com/standing_seam/mbs_standing_seam_pricing.htm
They sell a factory cut concealed fastener panel in 26 gauge which would give you the increased strength you're looking for. They price them per foot depending on gauge and width of the panel. Click on the link below the picture that says " quick install guide" and they have an extensive gallery of pictures that walks you through the install process.
Jesse a friend of mine did the same with his flue. He had a builder to fabricate a standing cap on top with a diamond screen as a spark guard. The complete cap sits on top of the framed flue cavity so there was no need for a flue cap or boot and the top of the chase was waterproof. He wrapped his with Hardee board matched to the color of his siding. Actually it was just oversize of his chase and the bottom side slips over the first couple inches of the siding. It is two layered with the first layer being the layer that the flue pipe penetrates and the second about 10" above that is the roof cap. The diamond screen is on the sides between the two.
I was just thinking how you are going to seal up the chase on the top. You could use a metal cap broke down over the sides some but either way you will probably have to have a boot to make that seal aound the exterior pipe.
Red- My roofer says he's going to fabricate a chase cap and then a collar around the pipe. But now that you mention it, it seems that the chase cover will be flat and a boot would be the best thing to seal around the pipe where it exits through the chase cap.....hmmm. I'll have to check with him on that. Glad you pointed that out.
jdhen, Ive watched your build closely. I really like the shed roofs, more than gables, and I really like the small narrow windows you have between the shed and gable roof.I cant explain why, just do.
A couple years back I drew up ahouse Id like to build, and still will one day, if the Lord allows. Id like to show it to you, mainly because your place reminds me of it. Its simple, small(not compared to some on here), all plumbing is close together. its not on there but id also build shed roof over a back patio out the door by the laundry, which I think would make it more like yours.
(https://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/dgmatt/12-19-200913420PM-1.jpg)
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Devildog, The small awning window idea came to us after we visited Prairie Grove Battlefield, a park not far from our land. Once we saw the Latta House we knew we had to add the windows above the shed roofs.
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They're not going to be big windows to look out as they sit only 10 inches off the finish floor but they do throw some ambient light into the lofts and will allow us to have cross ventilation which is probably the main reason we decided to add them.
I like your plans. It's funny that before we bought John's plans we had very similar ideas with the 2 opposing shed roofs with the clerestory windows at the front of the higher one.
I hope you get a chance to build it someday!
I finally got around to hooking up the gutters to the tanks. I should have done it months ago when it was raining all the time d* but my main focus at that time was to get the house dried in. Wouldn't have taken much and I'd have full tanks now....oh, well. This is unlikely to be the final configuration as I will have to change it around a bit when I enclose the pole barn. It should do for now.
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Started on the loft floors. The 2x6 t&g is going down fairly easily. I borrowed a screw gun from a friend which is a big step up from my wimpy little 12 volt cordless. It's made it a lot easier. I love the way the flooring looks but I do realize that there will be no sneaking around in the loft. Lot's of squeaks and groans! ::)
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The loft will have 2 rooms- one 12x14 and the other 14x16. The middle 8 ft open section is for the stairs and the walkway between the rooms ( there is a temporary 2x10 joist there now so that I can get back and forth between the lofts)
jdhen, where did you get the 2x6 t&g for your loft floor? Ive looked at lowes and home depot and they dont have it(at least not in florida). I assume you have to get it from a sawmill, and if you dont mind ,how much is it a foot. Ive looked at solid hardwood flooring(3/4") and it was a little exspensive.
BTW thats a great looking old cabin!
Darrell
I purchased it through my local lumber store. They just called it in to their supplier and I had it a few days later. It's a special order item so I doubt the big box stores would supply it but I never did check with them. It's around $6.80 for the 12 footers and almost $9 for the 16 footers. So that's like .56 cent a board foot. I thought it was a pretty good price. I don't think my bill was much over $500 for the finish floor and the ceiling. I'm happy. :)
jdhen did you know the location of the walkway before laying the flooring. The reason I ask is that normally the T&G is weaved across that area with the floor on either side. Just makes it a little stonger with no hinge points where the walkway would meet the floors of the two rooms. If you don't think this is an issue then just disregard.
that sounds like a great price to me. I really like this look with nails/screws showing
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Darrell
It is still somewhat common practice to face attach flooring but normally they have wooden plugs sanded off flush to give the appearance of a pegged floor. A little labor intensive but sharp looks.
That's a good point, Red. Previously, my plan was to place the two floors and then use architectural joist hangers to suspend 4x beams perpendicular to the 4x beams that support the lofts. I planned to also turn the t&g perpendicular to line the walkway ( I hope this makes sense) But as I've been laying the floors, I've decided to make some changes. Instead of a walkway, I want to fill in 1/2 of the middle 8ft of opening with the flooring leaving only the stairway area open to below. So now it makes sense to keep the t&g in line, rather than turning it perpendicular. I can adjust the 16 ft loft as I've only laid half of that floor and I'm not yet at the point where the walkway meets it. So I'll just do as you suggest and weave it. The smaller side (12 ft long) which I've already laid is another thing.
I think what I'll do is set my circular saw to proper depth and cut 1.5 inches off of the end of the t&g leaving a lip on the last beam to support the walkway t&g. The walkway and the 12 ft side will butt together rather than weave but I'll be framing a wall directly over that spot so it won't be visible except in the middle of a doorway.
If I've made any sense and you can picture what I'm talking about, do you see any problems with doing this?
Sense somewhat. With the partition being over the seam then that will usually not be a traveled area so you would probably be OK. If you are just to the point of the doorway you might consider removing what few you have and shift every other one through that doorway to meet. I know it is a PIA but if you used screws it shouldn't be but a few minutes to make the adjustment. You may have a little more waste but a more solid floor in that traveled area. But as I said before if you are satisfied then that is what's important. I staggered mine in both loft areas and made a 90 deg turn and I still have sweaks but it is tolerable. I think it is just the nature of the beast. I mean wood against wood on a moveable enviroment. Did you wax the edges. Just kidding.
You had me going for a second- "no one told me to wax the edges!" d*
So, is it an aesthetic reason for not letting them butt at the door? Or is it also that the butt edges may open somewhat with the foot traffic stress on the wood. Do you think placing an interior threshold would solve the problem?
I want to exhaust all options before I take back up what I so carefully laid down ::)
jdhen I am assuming that the flooring that meets in the doorway is also the same that bridges the area from room to room. If in fact there is some movement in the flooring it is doubtful that a threshold would help because it will be movement from the joist up in a verticle fashion and not necessarily horizontal although that could occur. It's hard to tell from your photograph but it appears that you ended your flooring on the outside edge of your 4X(toward the landing or stairway). If so then by adding any portion of the "landing" so to speak as a stand alone floor you would be compromising the strength of the floor to work together as one with the aid of the Tounge and groove rather than seperately.
I think what you were after was a floor without "butt" joints which are more pleasing to the eye but when you have an area larger than the demensions of your material (lengthwise) it is a necessary evil to maintain the strength. I may be all wet but that is just my $.02 worth. Maybe others will pick up and join in.
Red- I'm going to take some better photos tomorrow so it's clear what I'm doing. One problem I've noted today is that I can't pull up what I've already laid down on the short side because what I've been calling 12 ft is actually cut down to 11ft 7 inches and those wouldn't be enough to span the other beams (each on roughly 48 inch centers) without wasting almost 48 inches of each t&g board that I try to use else ware.
I'll post some pics tomorrow night to try and give you a better idea of the situation.
Thanks.
Thanks Jesse that link was really helpful. It's a part of the project that is still in the air . Seeing that slideshow helped a great deal to see how it would work with our roof
Quote from: jdhen on December 16, 2009, 09:29:01 PM
Jeff- Our roofer is custom rolling our metal on site. I did, however, look into factory cut panels first when I considered doing it myself.
Check out this website
http://www.michianabuildingsupplies.com/index.htm?http://www.michianabuildingsupplies.com/standing_seam/mbs_standing_seam_pricing.htm
They sell a factory cut concealed fastener panel in 26 gauge which would give you the increased strength you're looking for. They price them per foot depending on gauge and width of the panel. Click on the link below the picture that says " quick install guide" and they have an extensive gallery of pictures that walks you through the install process.
Glad that link worked for you, Jeff. The pics do make it look like with a few tools anyone could install that roofing. Wish I had the guts to do it myself! Should be a bit easier on your roof pitch though. Good luck figuring what to do!
Well, I think I have this floor thing figured out. At first I was going to make a 36 inch walkway to connect the two floors. I'd planned to pair this this beam pictured below with another one and place the t&g perpendicular to the other (I'm not sure why I thought this was a good idea ???)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/002.jpg)
So instead I placed the second beam parallel with the other larger beams and connected it to the perpendicular one:
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/005.jpg)
Now I could lay the flooring in line with the other but I couldn't pull up what I'd laid down because I'd already cut them too short to fit anywhere else.
So I'm left with decking flush with a beam:
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/006-1.jpg)
So, I decided to set my saw to depth and cut out 1.5 inches to create a lip for the rest of the decking to connect to.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/007-3.jpg)
So now I'm butting the decking on one side and weaving it in with the other floor.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/012-1.jpg)
Red, I wish I'd posted on this before I'd laid down the short side. I would have preferred to weave both sides as you suggested. Oh well. I know it's not ideal but I think it should work out just fine. I will put a low profile wood threshold to hide the butt area that would be exposed for the door and as I mentioned before the rest of it will be covered under the wall framing.
I also wanted to share a technique that a friend told me about. It may be common knowledge to some but I'd never seen it in any book or anywhere else.
I was having trouble pulling the t&g together when I was too far from one edge to use my pipe clamp. My friend told me to take a 2x8 or larger, long enough to span over two beams. Then I cut a scrap piece of t&g on a slight taper and put it between the 2x8 and the decking that is not fitting flush.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/008.jpg)
I'd screw the 2x8 to the beams and then gently hammer the larger end of the scrap t&g until it fit snug and pressed the bowed piece flush with the next one.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/009-2.jpg)
Anyway, it worked well for me. Maybe it could help someone else down the road!
Thanks for the tip . . . Your place is really coming together! Well done!
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jdhen didn't mean to sidetrack your progress but it will make the floor more solid. I figured since you hadn't posted earlier that you had come to a solution. I could picture your delimia and I think you made the best of the situation and it will probably work out fine. When I used my T&G I would alternate short ends at every other course so waste was at a minimun. It actually developed a pattern in the floor with the joints falling the same distance on every other course.
Yes I had used that jig as well as many others. I would have to say that a "cats paw" or "Chisel" worked very well for minor pulling by driving the point into the beam adjacent to the board then prying it into place. The divit left was covered by the next row. But I usually didn't have enough hands to pull, hold and screw so I was like a acrobat using my leg to hold in place. Actually they make a cam/lever puller that fits over the beam and has a handle which works well for beams that are not exposed. For the ones that are exposed they leave a small impression on the beam. I had even used several pipe clamps hooked together to reach from one side to the other. There is always a solution if you just sit back, get a cup of coffee and think about it. ;D
I wouldn't be particularly worried about he butt joint at the doorway as the door when closed will probably hide it. But it may be fine on it's own if you made a good straight cut and they lined up. You can always go back and put one in later if you see that it is going to be a problem.
Bayview- thanks for the compliment!
Red- I'm glad you mentioned the cats paw and chisel. That will be much easier than my technique for those small gaps that it's not worth spending the time to set up the 2x8. The technique I've been using is a bit slow and cumbersome.
Thanks!
Happy New Year, all!
Got a little slowed down by the holiday's but back at it now. I've started on the stairs. Got the first set of stringers hung up to the landing and I finished the winders today. I've got temporary 2x's screwed down for the treads.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/006-2.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/010-2.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/009-3.jpg)
I have a question about tread width. The lower stringers are cut 7 9/16 riser height and 10 inch tread. Up top, the rise is working out perfectly but the run for the upper stringers is about an inch and a half too long. Should I let the top tread (last step before reaching the loft floor) be a little wider than the others or give an extra 3/8th's to each tread. I would think the latter but I thought that maybe it might be nice to have a wider step for the first one down. Any opinions?
It's going to be a high of 20 degrees tomorrow but that should feel warm compared to the expected 2 degrees on Thursday night. It is winter, I guess [waiting]
Just noticed your tip for the homemade jig. [cool]
I'm about halfway done with my loft floor and have been doing alot of cussing trying to get the boards snugged up, your jig will make life much easier!
Are you sanding your floor before you install it, of waiting until its all down?
I've been sanding mine before install, but it's not laying perfectly flat, and it looks like I'm going to have re-sand it all just to smooth it out. d*
In regards to your stair...I don't recall if you need to follow any codes or your structure will be inspected....but the on your winders...the narrowest point of the winder cannot be less than six inches...it looks as if yours goes down to a point. I believe the reason for that is so an individual who steps on it (in low light perhaps) always will land on soild footing. It was a problem I had to fix with mine. My structure had to be inspected however.
Hope this makes sense....I will look for a diagram.
...ok...I found a pdf file that explains things. Look on pages 5 & 6.
http://www.stairways.org/pdf/2003%20Stair%20IRC%20SCREEN.pdf
Hi Beavers- I'm glad the jig will be useful to you. It does take a little bit of time to set it up but it sure does a good job of pushing the boards together. Earlier, Redoverfarm mentioned the other techniques of using a cats paw or a chisel and I found those to be particularly helpful.
I'm planning on sanding later. I'll probably rent a sander after I lay the hardwood floors on the first floor.
John- thanks for the info on the stairs. Luckily I don't have any inspector to contend with and while I understand the reason of not bringing the stairs to a point, I've finished mine and I'm very comfortable with them. The natural path takes you comfortably and safely down the middle of the treads where there is adequate width to support each step. Sometime in the future, perhaps at 2 AM, I may feel differently, but right now I'm happy! :D
I completed the stairs today, framed in the closet underneath the stairs and framed the platform that will support the woodstove.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/010-3.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/003-2.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/002-1.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/011.jpg)
I'm quite pleased with the outcome!
One thing that I'm not pleased with is that I accidentally dropped a stringer and it fell onto the shower stall d*
Now there's a small spider like crack in the acrylic coating. I've been so careful and protective of it because I new something like this could happen.....and it did anyway!
Anyone have any experience with the repair kits for fiberglass showers? Please don't tell me I have to throw it out now.
Your stairs look good to me.
Is that a cedar post in the corner? Whatever it is, it looks pretty good. What kind of railing are you going to use?
jdhen I would say it is useless now. Throw it real hard and I will try to catch it. ;D. On a more serious note I would say that there is a repair kit available to use. Although I have never used one if it is just a surface crack then you should be able to repair. If it is continuous then a auto/repair fiberglass kit from a auto parts dealer should firm it up from the back side. I am thinking they use a gel type coating onthe inside similar to what they use on boats but I could be mistaken.
How about a distant shot of the finsihed loft floor to see if it meets our approval.
In regards to the wood stove platform I wasn't sure whether you mentioned it or not regarding the orientation of the stove face in regards to the stairs. If you run black pipe to a insulated pipe at the ceiling you will need to protect the wood from the heat. Not only from the heat but an accidental touching while climbing the stairs. If you did go this route rather than double insulated pipe then you could make a decorative screen out of diamond screen painted black and framed with either square tupe or angle to make it look nice. I have found that ply, hardee board and stone makes a good insulation factor for this. Some have even went to extremes and doubled the hardee on the walls and eliminated the ply. I don't recall what ScottA did this on his hearth walls but I am sure he mentioned it in his tread. I would also use hardee, tile on the hearth platform as well.
I would pour 4" of concrete on top of the hearth platform. That's what I did on mine. I read in my woodstove directions that the floor under the stove must be protected. They suggested 4" of concrete or mineral board.
Scott I guess what they are referring to as "mineral board" would be hardee board or concrete backer. My neighbor layed two layers of 1/2 hardee and then will thinset and tile over that.
Your stairwell looks a lot like mine! The wood stove is in the same place as well. I think it is a good choice for the use of space.
Poppy- Good eyes! That is a cedar post. I just set it in place to see if it would work and I think it's a keeper. I haven't finalized plans for the railing yet.
Red- Glad you feel hopeful about fixing the shower. I should have just framed in a stall and tiled it like Scott did. I just didn't think I'd have the time or the know-how.
About the platform- I built everything based on the proper clearances recommended by the Pacific Energy stove that I bought. We have planned to set hardi board on the platform and tile the surface. We haven't decided yet how to treat the stairs or the wall to the closet. Are you suggesting that I need to cover the stringer closest to the stove with hardi board and tile it? Even if the stove is within the proper clearances, those clearances are not meaning wood or drywall? Where I live now we heat with the woodstove and it sits within the same distance to the drywall and wood trim and I've never given it a second thought. Sure the wood gets warm but is spontaneous combustion something to worry about?
Also, I did plan on using the black pipe to the ceiling but I didn't really consider the possibility of touching it as you come down the stairs. I still might change to double pipe but it's a lot of $$$$.I can't quite picture what you were describing with the diamond screen. Nothing came up with on google either. Do you have any pics or other references?
Considerations- The stairwell looks a lot like yours because I copied a number of things that you did! I watched your project for quite a while before making the decision to build. I really do like having the stove in a central location. I'm glad you approve :)
Quote from: jdhen on January 05, 2010, 10:00:41 PM
Poppy- Good eyes! That is a cedar post. I just set it in place to see if it would work and I think it's a keeper. I haven't finalized plans for the railing yet.
Red- Glad you feel hopeful about fixing the shower. I should have just framed in a stall and tiled it like Scott did. I just didn't think I'd have the time or the know-how.
About the platform- I built everything based on the proper clearances recommended by the Pacific Energy stove that I bought. We have planned to set hardi board on the platform and tile the surface. We haven't decided yet how to treat the stairs or the wall to the closet. Are you suggesting that I need to cover the stringer closest to the stove with hardi board and tile it? Even if the stove is within the proper clearances, those clearances are not meaning wood or drywall? Where I live now we heat with the woodstove and it sits within the same distance to the drywall and wood trim and I've never given it a second thought. Sure the wood gets warm but is spontaneous combustion something to worry about?
I think Mountain Don had dug into this subject and he can probably give you the location that it is contained on CP site regarding underlying wood charing and heat deprivation of wood. I am pro stone for around stoves so that would be my suggestions for the wall and possibly the area of the wall up to the stair treads. I am not too big on tile except for the horizontal surfaces like the platform or floors. I just think the setting for a woodstove should be stone or even a slate rustic tile at least. I know I sound like a salesman but it to me is more pleasing to the eye with a stove and the passive heat absorbed by the stove is an added plus once the stove has died down.
Also, I did plan on using the black pipe to the ceiling but I didn't really consider the possibility of touching it as you come down the stairs. I still might change to double pipe but it's a lot of $$$$.I can't quite picture what you were describing with the diamond screen. Nothing came up with on google either. Do you have any pics or other references?
There is pros/cons on black pipe for that area in comparison to double wall. The black iron will give you more heat in the room but it also causes more cresote build up with the difference in temps vs. double wall which insulates the pipe so that temp difference is not substantial as black pipe. But then again the double wall or insulated pipe is a good bit more $$$ in comparison.
As for the expanded or extruded screen I have attached a site which shows what I am talking about. Although this is aluminum they also make it in steel as well. But this site had the best pictures.
http://www.aluminum-expanded-metal.com/aluminum-expanded-metal-mesh/aluminum-expanded-metal.htm?gclid=CMLQ0J7jjp8CFWkN5QodjQxj7w
Considerations- The stairwell looks a lot like yours because I copied a number of things that you did! I watched your project for quite a while before making the decision to build. I really do like having the stove in a central location. I'm glad you approve :)
Wood burning stove clearances are given as the distance from the stove side/back to a combustible material. That means if there is rock, tile, cement board, bricks over drywall, the clearance is measured from the drywall to the stove. That distance can be decreased with a metal shield having an air space behind it. The metal must be 24 gauge or heavier IIRC. There must be an air space below and above the metal to allow circulation. It is amazing how effective that is. We've used that in my gazebo with the chiminea fireplace.
Some stoves require an optional bottom heat shield unless installed over bare unpainted concrete over earth.
The link to the reference John made regarding the charring of wood eludes me right now. Basically, if wood is exposed to temperatures that themselves are not high enough to ignite the wood, the character of the wood can change. The ignition temperature can be lowered substantially. The process may take many years. There are cases where improperly installed steam heat pipes have caused fires decades after the building was built. The same can occur with heat from wood burning stoves. Any heat source really.
Red- I see your point about having a stone hearth. I like that look too and you're right about it being nice to have some thermal mass to absorb the heat. I'm just not sure how I'd work that in to the situation I've got. The stairs directly behind the stove make it an awkward fit.
Basically, my plan was to do something like this image from the Pacific Energy catalog. Sorry- couldn't find a cut and paste image and had to take it directly with the camera.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/002-2.jpg)
I'd like to think that the photographs they show in their catalog are appropriate uses for their product but perhaps they're just trying to create an appealing image instead.
MD- I did a search and did find data that supports what you're saying. Repeated exposure to high temps can eventually turn wood to charcoal and increase it's ignition danger. One site stated that those temps would need to be consistently 250 degrees and I hope that the clearances posted by Pacific E would take this in to account. I think this is the data that is used to create the actual clearances for individual wood stoves based on testing.
Mt.Don I just remember a discussion regarding this subject and maybe you posted a picture to demonstrate what the discussion was about. Somethings stick in my memory and somethings don't. ;D
jdhen I think it would be a doable project to put stone or stone veneer on the two surfaces behind and to the left wall of the hearth. One nice thing about veneer stone is that it can be easily cut to fit the tread riser configuration. The area to the left or the closet wall is a straight run and the somewhat odd area would be the stair wall directly behind the stone.
Here is ScottA wall behind his stove. Hope you don't mind Scott.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3419.msg100334#msg100334
Here is what I did behind mine at the house.
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/Antiques/100_1573-1.jpg)
Nice work on that fireplace, Red. Stone is definitely a natural backing for a wood stove.
I'm curious about the wood framed recessed area and the doors. They look fairly close to the stove. Do they get hot when it's fired up?
Any approximate idea on how much veneer stone costs per sq ft? Can I find it at home depot?
Quote from: jdhen on January 07, 2010, 08:54:40 AM
Nice work on that fireplace, Red. Stone is definitely a natural backing for a wood stove.
I'm curious about the wood framed recessed area and the doors. They look fairly close to the stove. Do they get hot when it's fired up?
The woodbox doors are just that doors. The area surrounding frame is block and stone. They do get warm but they are only about 7-8" from the stove sides. If I had anything other than a soapstone I would probably worry about them. They have never gotten hot to the point that you could not lay your hand on them.
Any approximate idea on how much veneer stone costs per sq ft? Can I find it at home depot?
Cost vary depending on the company and the location from a dealer/factory. I am sure that HD probably handles the product as well as Lowes. I think Lowes distributes M-rock which is a company that I picked mine up at the factory which is about 1-1/2 hrs south of me. I think they were selling it at Lowes for about $5 sq ft but there are better buys (factory pickup for me was about 1/2). Cost is also affected by whether you need corner stones or all flats. Corners are about $1 higher for a lineal ft. You might check out some of the sites on this Google search for a company near you or the price of their products.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cultured+stone&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLF_en
Again some style of designs are more expensive as well. Wish you were here I could probably save you a bunch. If you do decide to use cultured stone let me know and I will guide you through the process. It is not difficult just a little time consuming for a person starting out. But from what you have accomplished it shouldn't be hard.[/size]
Usually the shower manufacturer can give you the name of someone who can repair their products. They can be fixed. I've had holes repaired before but I've never done it. I'm guessing yours is a Lasko or Aquaglass shower?
Yeah, Scott, it's a Lasko. It was only $300. I'd hate to do it but it might be better just to buy a new one ( and build really good protection around it :-[) I'll check into fixing this one first.
I have used the repair kit at Lowes. I dropped a level from the top edge of a tub shower and the homeowner said to give that a try first. It was a small area but worked fine.
I got the woodstove installed just in time for the severe cold snap to end! Still, even when it's in the 40's it's nice to have something to warm you hands by.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew020.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew010.jpg)
I've temporarily installed it on top of the platform which has a 1/2 inch sheet of hardibacker board. I still haven't decided how to treat the area surrounding the stove but the heat shields on the sides and back keep excessive radiating heat from making the wood on the stairs too hot.
I'm almost done with the framing upstairs.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew004.jpg)
You'll note the excessive use of wood on the second wall from the camera on the left. I wasn't sure what door I would use so I framed for one that I didn't end up using. I added a T for the future closet wall then ended up moving it all forward. I just left it instead of pulling it out so now I have about $15 of extra studs where they don't need to be. Nothing like framing on the fly!
A shot of the stairs
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew011.jpg)
I feel so confident with stairs now that I decided to add a temporary set to the front door. The concrete blocks that I was using have come close to injurying me several times and my wife's Grandmother wasn't able to come inside because of the instability. Something had to be done.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew014.jpg)
These feel much safer!
The roofers have finally started! We've been battling the ice and snow but now that it's melted they can safely get on the roof.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew017.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/startofsomethingnew015.jpg)
I'm really pleased with the strong lines of the standing seam.
I'm planning for the siding and I found a fairly local sawmill that does a beveled edge lap siding out of local eastern red cedar. He's sending me a sample which I hope will suit me because I'd love to use a local product. He also does wood flooring and his prices seem reasonable.
I've got the walnut stain for the beams. I wonder if I should still use the wood bleach to clean the water stains before applying the stain? Any thoughts?
that woodstove looks fantastic.
as for the woodbleach, I'm pretty sure its oxalic acid your referring to. I have used it when refinishing furniture to take up stains in wood. sometimes no matter how much you sand a grease stain or dark water spots wood can just soak in layers and layers deep. You cant really sand as deep as the stain is and still have a usable piece. It does work fantastic at brightening up and cleaning wood. If you only have a small area affected, you may need to plan who you apply it and try to even it out, if you only touch up the spots with your tannin stains it will blotch as the oxalic does lighten the area a bit.
If your going for a finished look, yes, go for it but try to wipe it in over a larger area with the outlining edges just getting a touch damp to make the transition gradual. If you dont mind a little character, just sand those spots clean, correct whatever stained them from happening again and go from there.
That's great, that's really great. Can I ask the approximate dimensions of your bathroom downstairs, and the two rooms upstairs?
Great placement of the stove. This is just perfect. Thanks so much for the photos.
Parks
jdhen nice job on the floor. If at all possible I would leave the black pipe until it reaches the transition to the ceiling box. You will be surprised at how much heat will be generated off of it to the other portions of the rooms.
Nice orderly work space. I know that doesn't happen on it's own. Don't worry about a few extra 2X's. If that is your biggest loss in the build you will quickly forget about it. ;D Good Job
Muldoon- I like the woodstove too! I've only had closed woodstoves and the addition of the window is really nice. I can't believe how well a high efficiency stove works! The air movement is very controlled and allows all the wood to catch very easily. The secondary burn chamber almost completely rids the stove of smoke. I suppose any stove would be an improvement over the giant, very inefficient stove I currently use!
yes the oxalic acid is what I was referring too. I'm trying to decide if I need to clean the beams before putting a dark stain on them. Originally, I was going to try to clean the water stains off and leave them natural but we've decided that a dark stain will contrast nicely with the loft floor. I suppose if I don't "bleach" them first I may have a few areas where the actual walnut stain will appear darker. I just don't want to go to the expense and time if the effect of cleaning them won't be that noticeable.
Raindog- thanks for the compliment. As you can imagine, the bathroom is long and slender at 12x6. Actually it's a little less than 6 ft. It feels sort of like a hallway with bathroom fixtures! The house that I'm living in now has a bathroom with similar dimensions so I know it will work for me. The rooms upstairs are 13x16 and 13x12. I can stand within 32 inches of the outer wall so I only net 8x the long dimension. I was surprised by how large the rooms feel. I really was expecting it to feel cramped but I'm very happy with it.
Red-I'm glad you like the floor. You had asked for pics before but I'd forgotten to respond that they still weren't done yet. When I made the change from walkway between the two rooms to adding the closet space I ran out of materials and had to order more. I just placed the last few sticks this week before doing the wall framing. Your suggestions made putting the floor down much easier. Thanks.
Really glad you noticed the work space! I spent the better part of the morning cleaning! It was getting to the point where I couldn't walk around without tripping over something. I now plan to clean as I go so it won't become such an overwhelming job!
I do like the black pipe and I think that the clearances are adequate to prevent any problems but I'll monitor it closely. So far it would seem difficult to touch the pipe when using the stairs but if once the railing is placed, it seems like a risk, I'll likely do something like the diamond screen that you suggested.
Very nice set of pics. They look professional. [cool] I especially like the close up of the stove. Were you using a 50mm lens or did you just adjust a variable lens?
Another question on the stove. Is it necessary to put a hearth on the floor in front of the stove? With the stove so close to the edge of the platform, it might be a good idea.
Looking very spiffy. :)
Poppy- Just an old but trusty Canon power shot that I've dropped several times. Just used the basic zoom feature. I did study photography for several years at an art school in Boston but that was many years ago! Digital wasn't even being used yet by the masses!
As for the hearth, yes, I do plan to place either a removable tiled/framed hearth or I've also been looking into the 100% wool hearth rugs. That might be an easier way to go.
Scott- thanks for the comment. I've been enjoying the progress on your project as well and would say exactly the same thing to you!
Jesse, I could tell there was some photo training there somewhere. 8)
I also took some basic pic. training back in the pre-digital age myself. I have to remind myself all the time that some of the training actually does translate even on point-n-shoot cameras.
jesse. The standing seam does look better IMHO for the reasons you mentioned. We are def going with standing seam. Glad things are going well. Wood stove is also very nice nestled in the stairs.
Peace
jeff
Hey Jeff, Glad you hear you've made your decision on the standing seam. Are you going to order the factory panels and place them yourself?
Hey Jesse,
My name is Wylie, I am a home-health nurse and West Fork is my territory. I have seen your home from the road many times and have been watching your progress on here, but haven't been able to catch you there. I would love to stop by and visit with you if you wouldn't mind.
Shoot me an e-mail at wyliestevens@gmail.com, I'll send you my phone number.
I look forward to visiting with you.
Wylie
Quote from: wyliestevens on February 12, 2010, 07:57:49 AM
Hey Jesse,
My name is Wylie, I am a home-health nurse and West Fork is my territory. I have seen your home from the road many times and have been watching your progress on here, but haven't been able to catch you there. I would love to stop by and visit with you if you wouldn't mind.
Shoot me an e-mail at wyliestevens@gmail.com, I'll send you my phone number.
I look forward to visiting with you.
Wylie
And thus, with the innocent sounding forum post, was the first step taken on the path that would ultimately lead young Jesse to his destiny, spoken of in hushed tone for years to come across this country. Oh my God, why'd I say that? JUST KIDDING!
I'm new here, just came across your build thread and had to say nice looking build!
As much as I enjoy looking at all the builds here, I have to stop looking until I start my build or I'll never complete my drawings to submit for approval. I keep seeing things to change or add. As Homer would say, "DOH!".
frazoo
We want new pics. ;D
Maybe they went into hibernation Scott. ;D
I'm still here. Just came up for air after spending the last 2 weeks or so busting my knuckles on studs while trying to thread long runs of 6-3 wire for the stove and the hot water heater....arrrrrgggghhhh. Just finished wiring the last 3way switch and hooked up the water heater today. I'll have the electrician come in and check our work sometime next week and hook us up to the grid. Hooray! No more schlepping the 100 ft extension cord from the meter stand!!
Not much to see....the place is a mess......but at least I get to start tackling the plumbing....I think pex is a little easier to bend ;D
Here are a few shots of what's happened lately...
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/001-4.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/002-3.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/003-3.jpg)
We've also stopped to play in the snow. And, boy, have we had snow....much more than what is usual! But I guess most of the nation can say that!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/024.jpg)
Quote from: frazoo on February 12, 2010, 11:49:20 AM
I'm new here, just came across your build thread and had to say nice looking build!
As much as I enjoy looking at all the builds here, I have to stop looking until I start my build or I'll never complete my drawings to submit for approval. I keep seeing things to change or add. As Homer would say, "DOH!".
frazoo
Thanks, Frazoo. I did the same thing for about 2 years before starting my project. And believe me, you'll make more changes, even as you're building. Sometimes you just don't know something needs changing until you're standing right in front of it. ;D
Quote from: jdhen on February 12, 2010, 09:18:50 PM
We've also stopped to play in the snow. And, boy, have we had snow....much more than what is usual! But I guess most of the nation can say that!
Except us up here in Northern Idaho . . . we've had a Portland-style winter, warmer than their winter of '08-'09. Nice break, but I'm not looking forward to the dry dry dry summer. ::)
Great job on your place!
We've started in on the the plumbing. Still a few more electric details to work out like running some wire to a future sub panel that will bring power to an addition that we'll add in a year or so. Also, I added a whole house fan by Tammarack. It's not suppose to create a breeze but the reviews are good when it comes to cooling things down a few degrees at night in the summer- especially upstairs, I hope.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/037-1.jpg)
Here's a few plumbing shots- everything's just dry fitted so far. I need to look at it a while before gluing :-\
The plumbing wall for the bathroom and kitchen.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/008-1.jpg)
Drains under the wall- We'll be using the gray-water but I've plumbed it so that I can turn it to the septic tank if conditions are too wet for additional orchard watering. Only the toilet is plumbed directly to the tank.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/009-4.jpg)
These two ball valves control the flow to either the gray-water or the septic tank.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/010-4.jpg)
I got the idea from "Building with Awareness" a book and DVD by Ted Owens http://www.buildingwithawareness.com/
I'm also using this book http://oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/index.htm by Art Ludwig.
It's a bit unconventional but I'm hopeful that it will work!
jdhen just don't run the fan with the woodstove operational. You will suck the smoke right through the house. While you are in the planning stages try to develope a way to make it airtight (insulated) in the winter months. It will be a big heat robber during the winter if you don't close it off. Even with automatic louvers it will still be drafty.
Quote from: jdhen on February 19, 2010, 08:32:49 PM
Drains under the wall- We'll be using the gray-water but I've plumbed it so that I can turn it to the septic tank if conditions are too wet for additional orchard watering.
I hope nobody ever closes both valves at the same time. ;) Probably too late now, but there are special three way valves that would alleviate that concern.
Red- I framed in an attic (such as it is) access just adjacent to the fan. I will build a small chase out of 1x4s on top of the fan in which I will place cotton batts in the winter. The chase will also serve as a fence of sorts to keep the loose cellulose insulation from falling through the fan ports. Below the fan and above the grill is around 6 more inches that I will also fill with the cotton insulation and I think that should stop the heat escape.
MD- That's good point. My wife and I will have to be vigilant when making any changes to the greywater flow. Perhaps a sign in large type right above the valves will be in order!
A sign would be good. I look at things a little different than I did 30-40 years ago. My memory is not as sharp as it was. I used to have all sorts of unlabeled stuff that I knew for sure how it worked. Now I need hints, notes and signs. And the other thing that becomes more apparent as one ages... you or I might not always be around when some other person has to deal with the situation.
jdhen, plumbing looks great.
I was wondering how you passed thru your foundation. Bust it out with a hammer? drill it out? chisel? This was one of the things I was concerned about when they pour my footers,so I got a 6" pipe to sleeve for the sewer and a 2" sleeve for the water line. my only concern is with the 6" pipe , I dont trust people to do a good job sometimes,and if they put it inside the footer it could weaken it resulting in a future crack. Im sure it wouldnt weaken the foundation to go thru block cavity. Probably just over thinking things again.
Darrell
You're doing a great job. The place looks great.
However, I did notice in your plumbing photos (reply#192) the it appears that the "T" fitting in your main vent stack is upside down. It's hard to tell from the pics, and I could be wrong, but if that is your main vent (dry) then you should turn that fitting around.
Quote from: devildog on February 20, 2010, 10:18:53 AM
jdhen, plumbing looks great.
I was wondering how you passed thru your foundation. Bust it out with a hammer? drill it out? chisel? This was one of the things I was concerned about when they pour my footers,so I got a 6" pipe to sleeve for the sewer and a 2" sleeve for the water line. my only concern is with the 6" pipe , I dont trust people to do a good job sometimes,and if they put it inside the footer it could weaken it resulting in a future crack. Im sure it wouldnt weaken the foundation to go thru block cavity. Probably just over thinking things again.
Darrell
Darrell- The sleeve for the sewer pipe is in the footer. It's in the top quarter and since it's 18 inches deep there I'm not too worried about cracking. It's reinforced with rbar and I think it's standard practice around here to place it there. The greywater sleeve (the higher one) was knocked out with a hammer before the core fill was completed. You'd be surprised how exact you can be with some gentle knocks of the hammer.
For the sleeves I used 4 inch pipe with an appropriate slope to it. I'm just attaching to in with a 3 to 4 reducer and my septic installer just glued 6 inch outside the foundation for the run to the tank.
Quote from: bmancanfly on February 20, 2010, 11:16:48 AM
You're doing a great job. The place looks great.
However, I did notice in your plumbing photos (reply#192) the it appears that the "T" fitting in your main vent stack is upside down. It's hard to tell from the pics, and I could be wrong, but if that is your main vent (dry) then you should turn that fitting around.
Thanks for the compliment, bmancanbly! And I think you're right, I do have the san-tee upside down. Thanks for pointing that out. It's one of the reasons I'm going to look at it for a while before gluing it all together.
Speaking of gluing pipe together. Anyone have any advice? I can see several places where it will be tough to figure out at which end of a run to start. It gets tight in a few areas and I'm not sure that once I get one section glued, I'll have any angle to fit the other areas together.
Pointers from experienced folks would be appreciated! :D
Some additional photos of the plumbing would be helpful. It's hard to see how your fixtures are set up in the pics. You may have added more venting than you needed to. Not a bad thing, just more work. Hard to see though.
jdhen sort of elementary the way I did it. Use a Sharpie marker and lable all the joints on both sides of the joint with a corresponding letter when you have it dry fitted. Then strike a line over the joint to where it appears on both pieces. Then you can glue up several pieces at one time for the complicated connections by alaigning the letters and the slash marks. I usually start on one end and go tothe other. Everything will fit the same as dry fitted. This is rather crude but. If you have more joints than letter just double up on AA=AA BB-BB
_________________________
_a_{_a b_ ]_b Pipe
_______{________ ___]______
j j
o o
i i
n n
t t
QuoteSpeaking of gluing pipe together. Anyone have any advice? I can see several places where it will be tough to figure out at which end of a run to start. It gets tight in a few areas and I'm not sure that once I get one section glued, I'll have any angle to fit the other areas together.
Pointers from experienced folks would be appreciated!
I generaly start at the sewer and work my way to the roof.
I second Scott's advice.
Any time you work with pipe of any kind, always start at the bottom or connection and work away or up hill.
Quote from: Redoverfarm on February 20, 2010, 11:13:08 PM
jdhen sort of elementary the way I did it. Use a Sharpie marker and lable all the joints on both sides of the joint with a corresponding letter when you have it dry fitted. Then strike a line over the joint to where it appears on both pieces. Then you can glue up several pieces at one time for the complicated connections by alaigning the letters and the slash marks. I usually start on one end and go tothe other. Everything will fit the same as dry fitted. This is rather crude but. If you have more joints than letter just double up on AA=AA BB-BB
_________________________
_a_{_a b_ ]_b Pipe
_______{________ ___]______
j j
o o
i i
n n
t t
Red- thats great advice! It's so simple and makes so much sense but it really wasn't on my radar! Thanks for passing that on.
jdhen One little detail that I left out. d* In addition to those markings take the marker and mark the depth of the inserted pipe into the fitting. That will ensure that you have it seated fully. If it keeps growing in length it will not fit down the road.
Scott and Frank- I was actually going to do the exact opposite because in my mind, down below is where I have the most room to manuver. The vent pipe is locked into place in the wall and I don't have as much wiggle room. But it got me to thinking that getting the vents perfect is not as much a priority as making sure there's no leaking where the wet smelly stuff flows! ;D Of course, I don't want sewer gases leaking in the house but I guess a perfect joint or proper drop is less critical in the vent system.
Thanks.
Quote from: Redoverfarm on February 21, 2010, 11:53:14 AM
jdhen One little detail that I left out. d* In addition to those markings take the marker and mark the depth of the inserted pipe into the fitting. That will ensure that you have it seated fully. If it keeps growing in length it will not fit down the road.
That was the one thing I planned to do! Now I have much more confidence in the process.
We have power!!
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The DWV is all glued and ready. Red- your marking method worked great! I started from the bottom and worked my way to the top. Had to stop and squint at some sections a few times but no major problems.
Started in on the pex runs. Looks like a crazy spider is loose in the house!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/010-5.jpg)
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Getting closer to insulation and drywall!! I'm going to let someone else have that fun ;D I had planned on hanging it myself but I've been talked out of it by several people. I was surprised to see how little more money it would be over materials to have it done. Plus it will be done right and much more quickly than if I was to attempt it myself!
I had the same experience in my own house (but I learned it AFTER THE FACT).
My builder buddy and I decided we could stock and hang the drywall ourselves and then call in a taper for the finish work.
Boy were those guys HEAVY. In the end, after factoring in the chiropractor's bill, there was $15 savings over the bid price from a pro team. ??? d*
Yeah, John, that's what I keep hearing from people. "You think building is hard? Try hanging 5/8ths drywall sheets on the ceiling!"
When everyone says that- you know you should listen!
jdhen, the water line for the toilet should be on the left side.
Like Scott said but with the availability of flexible supply lines in various lengths it will work. The down side is that if you ever have to work/use the shutoff it is a little cumbersome to get to. On mine in the loft bathroom it is completely on the right side. But I had issues being the open beam and it was the only place that would work. 18" supply line will get it.
jdhen,
I was wondering where you picked up that pex manifold? ???
great pics, jd - did you get the pex locally or did you have it shipped. what brand is it? seeing what you did helps a lot when it comes to the stubs for fixtures.. i will be tackling the plumbing in a couple of months.. your discussion about starting in the basement and working up was also a help . any other tips that you came across and would like to share would be welcome! nice job on the house...
Scott and Red- thanks for noticing the error. I may just do as Red says and use a longer connector to get it to the toilet. I'll have an easy shut off valve right accross from the toilet at the manifold. It will have an access door.
John and Pocono- I purchased the manifold through pexsupply.com. The tubing and crimp tools are vanguard which is the original maker of the manibloc. Everything I read says to keep all the componants from the same company. Vanguard pex and tools are sold at Lowes. I tried to find some of the plumber preferred brands like wirsbo but couldn't find it locally and it was hard to justify the cost $300+ of the tools anyway for such a small job.
So far the installation has been going well. I have 2 more runs to place then I'll begin crimping. I'll let you know how that goes.
Still chipping away at it! I've taken advantage of the warmer temps and have started adding the furring strips for the rainscreen. I had a local cedar mill cut 3/8 inch thick by 2.5 inch wide strips. They did it for pretty cheap and it was easier than ripping plywood into strips.
Looks a bit like a jail now. The strips extend up to the triangle created by the gable ends. Above that we'll be using cedar shakes so the drainage plane will be created with Obdyke home slicker. Below that will be horizontal plank siding- likely Hardie board.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/002-4.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/004-4.jpg)
On the east side I added the first set of rafters for the addition so I can add flashing and side above it. The add on will happen later....I'm going to need a break when phase 1 is complete ;D
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/009-5.jpg)
Yesterday we had the north shed ceiling insulated with foam. I had intended to ventilate where the shed meets the end wall but after several snows with large amounts sliding off the 12/12 pitch we had snow push back up into the vents and drop into the living space. The 2.75/12 pitch is not steep enough to allow the snow and ice to continue to slide off. So, my roofer closed off the vent space with z flashing and we had the bays completely filled with foam.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/013-4.jpg)
Unfortunately I realized after the fact that I didn't heed my note on the wall and forgot to add a ceiling drywall nailer d*. Looks pretty hard to retrofit a nailer in so I'll have to come up with something else.
It was supposed to be a quick and easy job but right as the spraying began, one of the guys started having severe chest pains so they had to quit and drive him quickly to the hospital. One of them came back after an hour or so but he had to let everything warm up again and then he completed the job by himself. I'm sure the boss wasn't happy. He almost didn't do the job anyway because it was so small. He'd tried to convince me to have the whole place done in foam but when he started talking about needing an air exchanger I decided it wasn't for me. I'd rather have a house that will breathe naturally!
I may be jumping the gun here but I figured that since I'm here most days of the week I can more easily pick up the bills here!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/001-6.jpg)
I'm trenching for the water line today and finishing the crimping on the plumbing tomorrow.
jdhen It is good to here that we now have another member of the "Oh S*#@" club. I am a active and participating member. ;)
Even a 3/4" thick board will work but a 2"X2" (1-1/2 X 1-1/2) toenailed into the rafters. Take a caulk line equal distance from the wall on each end and snap for the width of your filler. Take a utility knife and score the foam both on the line and against the wall. Then take a really sharp putty and skim the foam to the depth of your filler.
If you knew someone that had a chair makers "scorp" that would help to remove the foam also.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/barr4chairmakersscorp.aspx
Just a thought.
Greetings -
We are are up in south-central MO and will be breaking ground on a 24 x 34 in the next month or so.
Can you give a rundown of the layers between the studs and final siding?
Thanks.
Doug
John- you have a solution for everything! [cool] See, I thought that would be too tough to get it right but I was thinking of trying to get a 2x4 jammed up in there. I'm going to try what you said. Not sure I can find a scorp but I'll do my best with a sharp knife. I suppose if I gouge out too much I can use a can of foam to fill in the spot.
Hi Doug, Congrats on getting started soon! By layers do you mean the tar paper stapled horizontally to the sheathing or are you asking about the furring strips running vertically for the rainscreen? You mention final siding so I assume you mean the rainscreen. There are 3/8th inch furring strips nailed to each stud that will create a drainage plane or space of the same dimension between the siding and the sheathing. This allows the siding and sheathing to dry out when water inevitably migrates behind the siding. This helps to prolong the life of the building. It's ideal with natural wood siding but it can't hurt behind others such as fiber cement. Hope that answers your question.
Had a busy week and a half!
Fought with a small 18 inch trencher for the good part of a day! Placed the water line and fed the electric line to the barn. Unfortunately, the chain loosened after and hour or so and the rental place didn't tell me I needed a 7/16 allen wrench to tighten it (I had one size larger and smaller d*) As a result, the dig went very slowly as I had to stop and hit the chain when it bound against the track every time I hit the smallest pebble! Luckily, the ground is not rocky but it's not rock free either! My neighbor came home with about 40 ft to go and he had the proper wrench so at least I didn't have to fight it once I was thoroughly exhausted! At least I only had to pay the minimum back at the shop ;D
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Finished crimping the pex and had no problems there. I did have an issue with my water pump though. I bought a grundfos mq3 because it's recommended for rainwater and used by many who collect it. It's on demand, with a small internal pressure tank. Very quiet yet sufficiently powerful for our needs. My wife and I hooked it up and fixed a couple of leaks with the supply line where I'd only hand tightened the connectors. We tested the pex manifold, lines and on demand water heater and everything performed well. It was all going great until I decided to tighten the primer plug just a little more when it snapped, spewing water everywhere! I quickly shut the pump down and the tests were over :( I've since contacted the company I bought it from and they will ship me a new plug this week.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/011-2.jpg)
On a brighter note....we have insulation! Wet blown cellulose in the walls and dry between the rafters.
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It was tough to photograph while they were spraying because it shoots everywhere!
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We'll give it a week to dry and the drywall crew will be back on monday to get started. Then it's painting time..... at least we're making progress!
Now you are getting insulation when it has started to warm up. ;) But I am sure you will need it this fall. Yes I used one of those trenchers at my parents for a waterline. Unfortuneately it was on a steep down hill grade. Spent more time trying to keep the machine upright than I did digging the trench.
How did the let-in on the shed roof work out for your drywall attachment?
Looking good jdhen
Yeah, Red. I admit the timing is not right on that one ::) Could have used it a while back but you know you can't insulate before electric and plumbing!
The let-in worked just as you said. Used a knife to score it then pulled enough out with my fingers to wedge the 2x2 in place. Thanks for the advice :)
We were suppose to start drywall on Monday but I arrived to 6-8 inches of snow on the ground so the crew didn't show.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow001.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow001.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow002.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow002.jpg)
They started in on tuesday and finished hanging today. Taping and floating on Friday.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow011.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow011.jpg)
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Across from the stove I plan a L-shaped built-in dining booth.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow013.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow013.jpg)
I didn't have them rock the interior of the closet because I want to put some shelves between the studs for additional storage. The closet will serve as a pantry of sorts for the kitchen.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow008.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow008.jpg)
Cubby for the manifold.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow018.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow018.jpg)
Closet at the top of the stairs.
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Looking back down.
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Office/ guest room
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow015.jpg) (https://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/?action=view¤t=sheetrock---snow015.jpg)
Both of the upstairs bedrooms have interior windows that will look down into the stairwell. We also put one looking into the bathroom but that will have an opaque or stained glass insert- only to keep the light moving.
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Bathroom- as best I could photograph such a small space!
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Back towards the future linen closet and window to the stairwell.
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Interior window from the living room to the office.
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The "dog room"
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Looking into the laundry room. Future home of the washer/dryer, freezer, sink, dog food preparation area(don't ask)
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Upstairs looking from one bedroom to another.
Of course the snow melted fast with temps in the 60's so now it's a muddy, soggy mess. And more rain in the forecast :( Luckily the berm is working well to keep the water away from the house. We'll add another french drain close to the fence.
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And this is dry compared to yesterday!
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We've started the fencing to keep our dogs in check.
Probably enough photos for now!
Isn't it nice to have someone else do the sheetrock? :D Even if you have to pay them.
MD, I will write this check with such pleasure. You just can't imagine ;D
Watching these 3 large gentleman hoist 5/8 sheets to the ceiling made me so glad to let someone else have that fun (not to mention the incredible amounts of dust)! I can't believe I ever thought this was a job that I could or would even want to do!
Looking good Jdhen. Appears you are on the the downhill side now.
Thanks, Red. I'm starting to feel the momentum building! It's starting to feel "real".
Dust? What dust? Just wait until they've taped and started to sand, then you'll see the real dust.
Looking really good, Jesse.
Oh, what I'd give to have dogs that would stay inside a 4 foot fence.
Damn! It gets worse? I can't imagine anything worse than the way that drill/router shoots dust directly in the eyes of the user when they're cutting out for outlet boxes and switches. Looks brutal!
Dad, you wouldn't have a problem with jumping dogs if you learned how to keep them off your kitchen counter at feeding time! Once they master that, getting over a fence is easy ;D
Damn everything looks so great. I cant wait to see how your built in turns out I was thinking of doing something similar. Also I would like to ad if anyone should work in the snow I think it should be drywallers, they always work in a dry insulated room. Looks like the did a good job though. [cool]
Nice progress. I like those interior windows. Very cool. :)
JD,
You're smart to sub out the drywall. Your place looks great! Love the progress pics.
I did the drywall on my last project, never, ever, again. Then I found out how relatively cheaply you can get someone to do it for you - argh!
It's looking really, really good. You should be proud.
Thanks to all for the encouraging comments! :)
One more encouraging comment coming! It's looking awesome. You really are building a very nice quality home. I'm looking forward to see how it comes out. It has personality
Question on the roof ridge cap. Do you use the "vented" cap ? We are getting quotes so I'm designing the roof and I'm not sure if it's necessary . Granted you roof is place on decking and mine will be on purlins so I'm leaning toward getting the vented kit b/c of the way our roof system vents. Just curious. Did they use roof rakes on the sides? I tried to look at pics but I could not tell.
It's funny how people seem to dislike drywall so much. I've done it and vowed NEVER again. :) Could not pay me enough to do that for a living.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. It the kudos that keep you going! :)
To answer your question, it is a vented cap in that it is an A- shaped piece of metal that is fastened to the tops of the standing seams. They bent the ends of the panels up under the ridge cap so you don't get a full 1-3/8 space...maybe something more like 3/8ths. But it will make a nice space for air to escape the small attic space. Also when I add that to the triangle vents at each gable end I should have enough free space for the house fan to exhaust the hot air in the summer.
Now, even with that steep pitch I had to have them come back and attach that brillo pad like mesh under the cap because one time with snow on the roof and a strong northwest wind, snow actually was blown back up under the cap and fell down into the attic space (well, actually it made it into the bedroom- this was before insulation and drywall). If you go with vented, I'd make sure to use it on your house because it's an even less steep pitch (is it like a 4/12?) and I would think that snow would more easily make its way in. I had them completely close off the shed roof's on both sides because they are less than 3/12 and snow very easily came in the house when it slid off the 12/12. Not a lot, but enough to make me nervous about eventual water damage marks on the drywall ceiling.
They did use rake trim and eave trim as well. In fact, both trims were integral to the panels as they helped to fasten them in place. I've never been big on rake trim for metal roofs but I'm very happy with the way that it looks. It's not as bulky looking as some rake trims I've seen. Plus both the rake and the eave have a slight turn-out at the ends to help water to drip away from the facia board.
How long should one wait after the drywall finisher to start painting?
They've done the taping and the first coat of mud. Tomorrow they will sand and coat again and then finish with an orange peel texture (not sure if that will happen on the same day).
After that can I just paint once the surface feels dry to the tough? Or, should I give it a few days?
you might want to wait a couple of days for all the dust to settle and things to dry thoroughly. do they have heat going on to dry the joint compoud or are they using the quick dry stuff? you could probably get away with just going ahead and painting but waiting a day or so wouldn't hurt just to make sure everything is dry and settled. that's what i would do but others might just do it.
i really like your cabin/home. the title says 14x36 but it's got to be wider than 14. what is the total width with the addition on the side? one other question: i looks like your stove pipe goes up at a slight angle in one of your recent pictures... is that just a matter of moving it to straighten it out or is there an issue with the placement and the where it goes through the roof. I ask because i may build a similar type place and put the stove in that location.
Thanks for the advice, CBC. I'm not sure what type of compound they are using. I'll have to check with them. It's been 2 days and they haven't been back but in some spots where it went on thick you can tell there's still a bit of moisture in the plaster. I've run the woodstove a few times and have had the windows open with lots of wind so that seems to be helping.
Thanks for the compliment. You're right, it's not really a 14x36 anymore. The addition off the north was suppose to be a screened-in porch and storage area when we started but it became much more as we built. It's now a 22x36 not counting the sun porch off the south side. We also plan a another room to the east off of the living room so that will make it larger as well. This building thing is fatiguing but addictive as well ;D
I've had to move the stove around a few times on the platform with all the recent activity so that's why the pipe is not straight. Still, even on an angle it works fine. There's quite a bit of flexibility with the sections. I do wish I'd placed the chase a few inches back from where I did but that does move the stove closer to the stairs than the factory recommended distance. The stove has a built in heat shield that keeps the heat from strongly radiating. Even where I have it now, when it's totally fired up, I never feel any significant warmth transmitted to the stairs (or now drywall). I may leave it in place and leave the bend after it rises above the loft beams. Now that there is dry wall upstairs it's difficult to see that there's any leaning at all.
We got a parts list from one of the local retailers which has helped a great deal. I'm glad you mentioned the Brillo pad stuff. I think from what your saying that it makes sense to install it.
I also know what your saying about the rakes looking a quite substantial. But I do see how it helps keep the ends from pulling up in a high wind. The firstday we built has issues with high winds. There is no roof rake on the sides on that. Looking forward to getting the roof on.
Thanks Jesse for that great explanation.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sheetrock---snow008.jpg)
I noticed that Don put in something similar. Is this for your water lines or some kind of heating system?
I've never seen these 'pex manifolds' before and am wondering why I keep seeing them ???
http://www.pexsupply.com/Viega-MXBD14-2-3-8-14-Port-Compression-MANABLOC-6-hot-8-cold-5380000-p
I found that -- interesting. So it's a plumbing distro for multiple locations?
For my little cabin I can't imagine using one but perhaps if they made something with 3 colds and 2 hots I'd be interested.
It's for the water lines. The main supply line comes in at the bottom. The top 2 lines go to and from the water heater. The white lines supply the cold water and the red to the hot. It basically allows you to run a dedicated line to each faucet.
This is the smallest manifold I could find. They make some small copper manifolds that have from 2 or more outlets with shut-off valves so you might make something like that work in your situation.
This is a nice neat system that is so much more doable for an owner than cutting and sweating copper pipe (like we did!)
Quote from: jdhen on March 30, 2010, 07:34:46 AM
It's for the water lines. The main supply line comes in at the bottom. The top 2 lines go to and from the water heater. The white lines supply the cold water and the red to the hot. It basically allows you to run a dedicated line to each faucet.
This is the smallest manifold I could find. They make some small copper manifolds that have from 2 or more outlets with shut-off valves so you might make something like that work in your situation.
Thanks for the reply.
Interesting really. I can see doing this in my case too becuase I have a main pipe that would come to the manifold from the cistern and then the hot going to the instant on LP heater and running the home runs to where they are needed.
I wonder if it wouldn't work to use this to run to a water spicket on the side of the house too? Also to have reserve for an extra room if one should be added with a bathroom in it also.
In my case I need cold to go to the kitchen sink, bathroom sink, tub and composting toilet and then hot to the tub/shower, kitchen and bathroom sinks. So have 7 or 8 leads is pretty excessive but for $90 if they can be plugged off it might be worth it. I could run one of the colds to the back and front walls of the cabin allowing me to hook up watering/sprinkling hoses to them then.
Damn that's pretty. You should be a plumber. :)
Scott, you really are too kind. While I am proud of the way the pex turned out you notice I haven't been posting lots of pics of the DWV ::) Not real clean with the primer or the glue.
Jarhead- I have 2 cold lines running to hose bibs under the house and that will run through the foundation wall. It will be useful for small amounts of watering but they recommend that if you're planning to use it for heavy irrigation to run it separately off the main and not through the manifold.
It's easy to plug off unused ports. I have one and the plugs cost $.60 or so.
Started in on the cabinets. Still need to do the face frame but that will be later.
The cabinet walls are oak plywood. I hate to do it but my wife wants them painted. She'll let me leave the interiors exposed. I could have just purchased the birch ply but it was the same price as the oak. The tops are exterior grade 3/4 inch ply.
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All counter tops will be tiled.
Everything is now draped in plastic as the texture crew finished up the drywall today. I had them leave it up because it will make the painting much easier. That starts tomorrow :P
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While they were working I added some gates to both entries. The double gate enters the future large garden spot. :)
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Wow, a vessel sink, how utterly upscale!
As for the Oak cabinets, perhaps you could do a test using some of that colored minwax stain, some of them look pretty good, And you also might do a test swatch of what used to be called a "limed oak" finish, lets the grain show but is very light. One way of doing it is just to use some diluted white latex paint, rub on, rub off. And as others keep telling you, looks really good.
As far as the garden spot, you might want to google "solarization", great way to kill all the organisms and weed seeds for a new garden spot, if you have the time, let the sun do the work for you.
jdhen you might consider using "Ditra" for your tile underlayment. It is a waterproof membrane that you can apply with thinset to your ply and them immediately lay your tile over it. I think HD has small rolls or I have a site you can order smaller quanities from. If you want it let me known. Here is one application where I used it over 1/2" ply although I have also used it on a double layer of 3/4" ply on the kitchen cabinets.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3613.msg109403#msg109403
We used a green stain on the red oak cabinets for our cabin. We love them. The open grain of the oak looks fine stained, to me. Are you planning on filling the grain before painting?
OkieJohn- my wife found the bowl on ebay for $40. We're not trying to make the little house something it's not :D Thanks for the ideas on coloring the cabinets- I'll look into them.
MD- I hadn't planned on filling the grain. Do you think it's something that would be necessary. I suppose I wouldn't mind the grain showing through. What would I fill it with?
Red- So the Ditra is used in lieu of durarock or hardibacker? And do I understand you to say that you use thinset on top of the ply and lay the underlayment on top of that- then thin set again and lay tile? Sounds like the big advantage is the moisture barrier effect. I would like the info on the site that supplies small amounts.
Have you added tile to yours yet?
Quote from: jdhen on April 03, 2010, 08:14:28 PM
OkieJohn- my wife found the bowl on ebay for $40. We're not trying to make the little house something it's not :D Thanks for the ideas on coloring the cabinets- I'll look into them.
MD- I hadn't planned on filling the grain. Do you think it's something that would be necessary. I suppose I wouldn't mind the grain showing through. What would I fill it with?
Red- So the Ditra is used in lieu of durarock or hardibacker? And do I understand you to say that you use thinset on top of the ply and lay the underlayment on top of that- then thin set again and lay tile? Sounds like the big advantage is the moisture barrier effect. I would like the info on the site that supplies small amounts.
Have you added tile to yours yet?
I have used it in all my tile (floors and countertops). The main reason I used it on the floors was that by adding 1/2" ply to the 3/4" subfloor to make it suitable for the stone tile I was faced with a elevation issue which the Ditra helped tremendously. The waterproof membrane was just a plus for my countertops although after 2 layers of 3/4" ply on the kitchen it did make it a little thinner. Yes you do not have to necessarily have to wait for the thinset to set up or have any seams to seal like backerboard before laying the tile. Just thinset the Ditra felt/wool back to the plywood. Go over with a float (2X4) to make sure it is firmly pressed down and then thinset the tile ontop of the Ditra.
This place had the best price that I was able to find. Not real sure exactly how much tile you have to lay but they do have a 54 sf roll which might be cheaper than buying by the ft.if you have a good amount to tile. If you look on this page it list the various size rolls available through them.
http://www.shagtools.com/category/ditra.cfm
http://www.shagtools.com/tools/schluter-ditra-cuts-by-the-square-foot-49-ditracut.cfm
The wall painting is finished. Still need to paint the trim on the window jambs.
We were expecting delivery of the oak floors today but it's been delayed until tomorrow. I did a little sanding of the high spots on the subfloor and finished scraping up the last of the drywall plaster. Also spent some time hanging some light fixtures and fans.
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Ready or not...we move it at the end of this month.
Jdhen,
I'm curious about the cabinets you're making yourself. How are you going to face them? Are you going to build your own faces or order them from a DIY like Ikea?
House looks great. Love the vessel sink as well.
Bishopknight- I'm glad you like the house and the sink.
I plan on building the cabinet faces. I really haven't worked out all the details just yet. I won't get to that until after we've moved in.
Any thoughts on how I should do it? I was thinking of basic drawers on wood slides and some simple paneled doors or even gluing up some solid doors. In the kitchen, above the cabinets,we plan open shelving.
Quote from: jdhen on April 06, 2010, 06:54:18 AM
basic drawers on wood slides
Metal slides with rollers make for a much nicer drawer, in my opinion. I especially like the Blum full extension slides. With them you can easily access the contents of the rear of the drawer. Hard to do that with wood. Just my thoughts.
Jdhen, one question for you, the outlet by the lav, does it go to a GFCI breaker. If not you should consider installing a GFCI outlet, same in the kitchen for locations near the sink.
MD- I appreciate the suggestion. Call me old fashioned but I don't like drawers on rollers. Maybe it feels too modern. I like a drawer to offer a little resistance when opening and closing. I like a drawer that forces you to push it evenly or it will jam :D-- maybe I just like challenges. I've never lived in a house with roller drawers and I don't think I'll start now!
Okie- Same for the GFCI. I've never had them in any house I've lived in. Not where I grew up, not any apartment I've lived in, not in the 1940's house I owned in Texas. I guess I only like to live in "old" places. Except now, of course!
The friend who helped me with the electric install had put them in his house and he said they all failed after about a year. He replaced them and a few years later they went bad again. Finally, he just installed regular outlets and 20 years later they're still there. I don't know. I understand that they are safer. The electrician I had come to check out the wiring said the same thing you did but admitted that they are most useful if you have children who don't understand yet that electricity can kill you. I've come this far without them so....
Besides, I put an outlet in the bathroom but I'll bet I'll never use it. I can't remember the last time I plugged something in at the lav. No hairdryers, curlers or electric shavers here!
Not trying to be contrary here. Please keep the suggestions coming. :)
Quote from: jdhen on April 07, 2010, 06:59:36 AM
MD- I appreciate the suggestion. Call me old fashioned but I don't like drawers on rollers. Maybe it feels too modern. I like a drawer to offer a little resistance when opening and closing. I like a drawer that forces you to push it evenly or it will jam :D-- maybe I just like challenges. I've never lived in a house with roller drawers and I don't think I'll start now!
Okie- Same for the GFCI. I've never had them in any house I've lived in. Not where I grew up, not any apartment I've lived in, not in the 1940's house I owned in Texas. I guess I only like to live in "old" places. Except now, of course!
The friend who helped me with the electric install had put them in his house and he said they all failed after about a year. He replaced them and a few years later they went bad again. Finally, he just installed regular outlets and 20 years later they're still there. I don't know. I understand that they are safer. The electrician I had come to check out the wiring said the same thing you did but admitted that they are most useful if you have children who don't understand yet that electricity can kill you. I've come this far without them so....
Besides, I put an outlet in the bathroom but I'll bet I'll never use it. I can't remember the last time I plugged something in at the lav. No hairdryers, curlers or electric shavers here!
Not trying to be contrary here. Please keep the suggestions coming. :)
Here code forced me to use them in the bathroom (probably smart) and a new kind in the bedroom -- not a GFCI but some sort of overcurrent type I'd have to go check again to see what it is -- and they've all been working fine for the last 5 years. I probably used Leviton.
Perhaps the brands you used were the issue?
That other kind would be and Arc Fault Interrupter. They are oft maligned for good reason but getting better. The safety gain is very questionable.
As for GFCI's, unless you have dirty power or inductive motors running on them, the failure rate is pretty low. The safety increase is very high to marginal depending on the location of the outlet but they are required in basically all code for specific locations in baths and kitchens plus outdoor outlets in "exposed" locations.
Mike
I looked around my humble abode again(which was built to fairly high code standards, fire sprinklers and hard wired smoke alarms which trip the building alarms) and there is no GFCI in the bathroom, but two in the kitchen area, one on each side of the sink. This is kind of weird, since one would have done the trick, the second outlet piggybacks off the first one. The quality of the GFCI outlet is indeed a problem, the cheap ones the big box stores sell are well CHEAP and prone to failure, I have heard the GFCI circuit breakers are better quality.
As far as drawer and door hardware, I personally hate the self closing drawers and the slam proof door hinges, sometimes a guy just has to slam a door shut.
As far as personal taste, I really do like the look of vessel sinks, BUT I wonder how hard they are to keep clean, give me the "dated look" faux marble contertop/sink units, very easy to clean.
As long as I'm rambling, I get a kick out of all the high end kitchens on HGTV with the "professional style" square cornered stainless steel sinks. These sinks are not NSF approved and wouldn't be allowed in a commercial kitchen. The NSF approved sinks must have radiused(sp) corners, those square corners are mold magnets and very hard to keep clean.
Quote from: jdhen on April 07, 2010, 06:59:36 AM
.... and he said they all failed after about a year. He replaced them and a few years later they went bad again. ....
That is weird. ??? ??? Our house has a few and they were installed in 1985. They still test out fine. We also 2 newer ones maybe 12 years old (in an an addition). Also fine. I do believe that back in the early seventies when they were developed there were developmental issues.
GFCI's can be damaged by lightning caused surges and should be tested after local electrical storms. It's best to check with a small night light or something plugged into it rather than just listen for the click. It is possible for a mis-wired or defective older GFCI to test "ok" with the test button, but still be supplying power through the outlet.
Newer GFCI's are designed to not pass current through when wired incorrectly or in a tripped state or if the sensing circuitry has become defective or inoperable.
Anyhow, with all that said I'll stick to using them.
One last thing. It is not recommended to use GFCI's on circuits that power refrigerators, freezers, furnaces or sump pumps. That is because GFCI's can falsely trip.
Not finding a GFCI located in a bathroom could simply be because the bathroom outlet is downstream from a GFCI and is protected. That can be tested by tripping the GFCI's and looking for receptacles that are dead. Then reactivate the GFCI and check that outlet(s) again.
I meant to link this about GFCI's...
http://www.codecheck.com/cc/gfci_principal.htm (http://www.codecheck.com/cc/gfci_principal.htm)
OkieJohn: There are only two probable reasons to have multiple GFCI's on the same line...one legit and one not so much. If the outlets are wired in parallel using pigtails (never required, but a "best practice" for non-GFCI outlets) instead of in series, they would have to be individual GFCI's. The not so legit reason is appearances...either for the prospective buyers or a less than knowledgeable inspector.
Also, in your bath and kitchen, only certain outlets in codes older than 2007 (?) require a GFCI. It can even be in a blank box in the attic or other location. Easiest is still a GFCI breaker of the whole line.
Don: Those appliances you mentioned fall into the "motor" category that I mentioned. The start-up surge is what causes the temporary imbalance. This of course kind of screws the owner who has the required, in some codes, GFCI outlets in the garage. How to plug in your compressor, beer fridge or chest freezer? If you have certain breaker panels you can swamp to a higher spec AFCI breaker that actually has mini computer circuit in the breaker panel...they only run about $60 each. Alternatively you can remove the GFCI and install a standard outlet taking your chances should something go wrong. No good answers.
Mike
Quote from: Onkeludo2 on April 08, 2010, 12:14:50 PM
GFCI outlets in the garage. How to plug in your compressor, beer fridge or chest freezer?
Add an outlet in series UPstream and next to it. Easy if the garage is unfinished as many are.
For better or worse, I have GFCI's in the garage and have both a chest freezer and an old(1958) fridge plugged in. Both are left on and I have had no problems in the 5 years they have been installed.
I also have the circuit breaker GFCI installed in the circuit to the outdoor pond. If I had to do the indoor ones again, I would do it that way. Simple, not all that expensive, and all the outlets covered, no question about it.
My friend did have the suspicion that an appliance in the kitchen was causing the repeated failure.
So, if I did decide to add them to the kitchen and bathroom, I would just need one most proximal to the circuit breaker because I wired in series? The kitchen and bath share one circuit with the bathroom being the first outlet. Would just adding one to bath protect the two that are distal to it? I ran a separate second circuit to the other wall of the kitchen so that would need one as well.
OkieJohn- In your first post of this thread, you mentioned a gfci breaker and then later an outlet. Are there gfci breakers that sit in the electrical panel? I was under the impression that gfci's are just in an outlet.
Thanks to all for the info!
Kitchens: NEC states that two GFCI circuits for small appliances are required. No lighting can be on those circuits. There must be a fridge outlet but IIRC the NEC does not state that it needs to ber on the GFCI. The best practice for frisges is to have a dedicated line to the fridge (that is my opinion, not written into any rules I have ever seen.) As well no point along the length of the kitchen counter is to be more than 24 inches from an outlet.
Bathrooms: Needs a ceiling light controlled by a wall switch. A GFCI receptacle is required when within 36 inches of the outside edge of each basin. A dedicated 20 amp circuit is required for all the bathroom receptacles unless the circuit ( which still must serve only bathroom loads) supplies only one bathroom. In this case the 20 amp circuit may also serve the lighting with that one bathroom. But only the one. ??? That means all the receptacles in however many bathrooms, may be served by one 20 amp circuit and GFCI. OR the 20 amp can supply the lights too, but then to a single bathroom. ??? Go figure that out.
At least that uis how I remember it. Rules may vary locally.
I believe the thought process of keeping the bath and kitchen separate, and of having two kitchen counter area circuits comes from the possibility of having several high amp loads on simultaneously; hair dryer, toaster oven, coffee maker, microwave.....
MD- I did run a separate outlet to the fridge so I basically have 3 circuits running to the kitchen. I can't see a problem with part of the kitchen and bath sharing one circuit to power 3 outlets and two lights. I understand that codes have their place but sometimes they don't make much sense.
Luckily I don't have a microwave or a hairdryer and I don't drink coffee so I think I'm safe! ;D A blender, a small food processor and a toaster are about as heavy as I get.
Thanks for the info!
You build your house how you want and so long as there is no inspector to make your life miserable be happy. :)
Quote from: jdhen on April 08, 2010, 12:53:42 PM
OkieJohn- In your first post of this thread, you mentioned a gfci breaker and then later an outlet. Are there gfci breakers that sit in the electrical panel? I was under the impression that gfci's are just in an outlet.
GFCI breakers are quite common - you can find them in Home Despot - about $35 each. They are a little weird in that they have a separate neutral wire that needs to be connected to the neutral bus bar.
Hey jdhen, sorry for the delay in responding. You have probably figured out from other posts that you can use a GFCI breaker in your service panel instead of the outlets themselves.
As ScottA points out, it is your house, you should do what you want (unless code inspection requires other).
The article that MountainDan linked is very informative, I am sure you aren't the type to stick a butter knife into the toaster are you?
... somebody read it! Good to hear. :D :D
OkieJohn- Yeah I did figure it out. Still not sure what I'm going to do but glad I now understand the issue better.
I'm too distracted with laying floors now!
We bought 6 inch wide ozark mountain red oak t&g planks. $1.60/ sq ft. Really good price and very good boards! I'll have more pictures but we were so beat I only took a few.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/005-5.jpg)
I'm using a reconditioned manual bostich nailer that I bought on amazon for $50 bucks and it's working great!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/004-6.jpg)
While a friend and I layed floors downstairs, my wife sanded the upstairs deck with a belt sander and put the first coat of linseed oil/turpentine down.
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Smells a bit like an artist's studio upstairs but that will fade as the turp evaporates. So far we're very happy with the results.
Oh, I read it MD! Some of it was a little over my head but I read it :D
The floors look attractive.
:) :)
Dang Don, and I thought I had proofread my post then I go and call you MountainDan, I know I could go back and edit my post, but I would rather say sorry here, Of course maybe I was talking about your evil twin Dan.
jdhen, while I was typing this you posted the new pics, those are very nice looking floors. good to hear the amazon reconditioned Bostich is working for you, I was wondering about how good the quality was on those. Just curious, do you belong to amazon Prime, it costs $79 a year, but gives you fast free (2 day)shipping on nearly everything they sell, and a lot of stuff I buy is shipped from a Coffeyville, KS warehouse so I get it next day.
MD- Thanks!
OkieJohn-Before I began the build I bought a reconditioned bosch worm saw and I've had no problems with it at all. Saved a lot over the new ones. I've used it for everything! It had ever been used. I think the reconditioned ones don't get past the QC desk and need some minor revisions, mostly cosmetic.
I don't order enough from them to warrant the $79 fee but when I do order I go over $25 and get free shipping. Everything came with in 5 days. As long as I don't need it right away, I'm ok :D
Quote from: OkieJohn2 on April 10, 2010, 08:00:26 PM
Dang Don, and I thought I had proofread my post then I go and call you MountainDan, .....
... been called worse. ;D
I was all ready to post some pictures of the new floors and tile work. I took one photo and the camera's batteries gave out! :(
Here's the kitchen tile. Will grout on Sunday. Not perfect tile lines but good enough for us!
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Guess I'll have to post more pics after I sand and finish the floors early next week.
The finish that we've chosen is a very cool product that I stumbled upon. It's called Rubio monocoat. It's a blend of 14 natural plant oils and 6 waxes. Zero VOC's. It's buffed on and into the wood and creates a beautiful finish that's very resistant to stains. It's made in Belgium They've been using it in Europe for a long time and only made it to the states more recently.
The company sent a sample we were very happy with the results.
We're in! :)
It's been a wild past week and a half with tying up various details so that we can live here with some semblance of normal living. Still have lot's of boxes around and tons of detail work to do but at least we don't have a daily 70 mile round trip or a rent payment anymore [cool]
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Getting ready for siding is next on the list...after we stop and take a few deep breaths!
jdhen you are going to be like TexasJim and work yourself out of a job. Looks real comfortable. Thanks for posting.
Thanks, Red. I'm not too worried about the lack of things to do. Phase 2 should keep me busy for a year or so and we still have another 6 months or so to finish phase 1. Always a project to do!
The floors look really great, if anyone is interested, here is the US website for the Rubio monocoat product:
http://www.monocoat.us/ (http://www.monocoat.us/)
Some of the specialty finishes look very interesting, like the fumed oak and the black.
Hey Jesse,
This is your home-health nurse friend. I stopped by what seemed like just a few weeks ago......the sheet rock crew was there when I stopped by. You have really done a great job! Planning on stopping by for a visit in the not-too-distant future.
Wylie
jdhen,
I saw your place yesterday, was headed down from Prarie Grove. Recognized it immediately, couldn't believe it, million to one shot I even saw it, much less recognized it.
Looks great, great lot. Thanks for sharing your info, planning to do something similar a little north of you.
Cozy
Congratulations!
Looks great jessie!
WTG! [cool]
The whole place looks very comfortable.
Big Cozy- Thanks for noticing! You shoulda stopped by and said hello! Feel free to do so anytime.
I haven't done much lately since we moved in. The siding was delivered but I started a new job last month and the orientation is kicking my butt! Up by 4:30 to get to work at 5:30am then work a ten hour shift :-( Keeps me pretty tired when I have a day off.
I should settle in to my regular schedule in a few weeks and I'll post some pics as I return to the tasks at hand!
I wouldn't have just walked up without an invitation, but next time I go through there I would like to stop and say hi. I would offer my expertise if I had any. I can dig ditches, and glad to help!
jdhen,
How did you route the wires for the lights and ceiling fans on the exposed beam ceiling? Did you cut a small channel then drill through the beam? I'm planning on doing an exposed beam ceiling too, and thought I would ask someone who has already been there.
Thanks, Shawn
Great job on the whole build it looks great! :D
Al
Quote from: Shawn B on August 04, 2010, 11:54:08 AM
jdhen,
How did you route the wires for the lights and ceiling fans on the exposed beam ceiling? Did you cut a small channel then drill through the beam? I'm planning on doing an exposed beam ceiling too, and thought I would ask someone who has already been there.
Thanks, Shawn
Shawn not trying to step on Jdhen's toes but here is a link to a conversation with him regarding hanging lights and fans from the ceiling side of the T&G. There are some pictures that I included as well that might give you some ideas.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8270.msg107003#msg107003
And some tips for laying the 2X6 T&G
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7442.msg103361#msg103361
In regards to running the wiring I also discussed with him how I did mine but it is far back in the thread and I am lazy to look for it right now. Basicly I cut a kerf say 3/4" wide by maybe 1" deep mid-center of my beam from my feed side to the rooms center with a circular saw with multiple passes. You could use a router but you would have to be very careful that it didn't get away from you (ruin your beam face). I found I had more control over the circular saw. If you are going to hang a fan/light from the beam you can just use a wood bit 5/8" to center bore the beam where you want to drop the light. The only problem with mounting the fixture fromthe beam and that is headroom downstairs and the fact that you cannot hide the junction box or mouting plates. That's why I opt to hang mine from the T&G ceiling. After the kerf I just cut a 5/8" block from the side of the beam to run the wire out to the ceiling area. After mounting the light I just made a piece of molding to cover the wire fromt he beam tothe fixture.
Thanks Redover!, the links and description will be very helpful. After thinking about it, most if not all of the fixtures will go on the T&G not the beam anyway. I plan on using southern yellow pine.
Hi Shawn- Although I liked the idea of routing along the beams like Red did, I was too nervous to lay wire and then work around it as I screwed down the T&G flooring. All of my fixtures hang from the T&G with the wires running along an adjacent beam then turning 90 degrees to the fixture. I will eventually trim them out as Red has done with the wire molding. When I turned the wire I made sure, as Red did, to use the v-groove to create a slight recess for the wire to sit in.
Hope that helps!
Quote from: Alasdair on August 04, 2010, 12:24:45 PM
Great job on the whole build it looks great! :D
Al
Thanks, Alasdair! I've been admiring your house as well!
Thanks Jdhen.
A few more questions, did you leave the t&g exposed in the bathroom, or did you box it in? If exposed is there any "special" varnish required for a high moisture area? How long is the first section of your stair case before it starts winding?
Shawn
Quote from: Shawn B on August 06, 2010, 10:02:55 AM
Thanks Jdhen.
A few more questions, did you leave the t&g exposed in the bathroom, or did you box it in? If exposed is there any "special" varnish required for a high moisture area? How long is the first section of your stair case before it starts winding?
Shawn
Shawn- I closed in one bay in the bathroom because I ran the plumbing vent between the two beams. It's not easy to photograph but from these two pics you should get the idea. I still need to trim out the transition between the drywall and the beams.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/004-7.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/005-6.jpg)
I'm not big on varnish (mostly for the chemical off-gassing) so I've just left the underside of the T&G natural. So far, so good. I'm told the wood will darken somewhat over time. I'm not too worried about the moisture. The wood will take it up and give it off. We keep our windows open most of the year and in the winter the wood stove will do a good job of keeping the humidity low. We've also have the interior windows that vent out to the living space so I think the moisture won't build up too badly.
The first set of stairs extend 61 inches from where the winders begin. They are close to a standard length with 10 inch treads and 7 5/8 risers. Very comfortable. I do look forward to finishing the oak treads one of these days, though!
When do you plan to start your project?
We're back at it again. My wife and I are near completion on the siding for the west side of the house. The gabled ends will be filled in with cedar shakes.
We are very pleased with the pre-painted hardie siding. It's gone up much easier than I thought it would.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/002-7.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/003-7.jpg)
We finished the deck off the north side but have yet to add the railings. Great place to watch sunsets, though!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/straight004.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/mimitrip032.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/slicesummerjuly021.jpg)
The house is looking awesome!! And so do the sunsets!
Jdhen, Thanks for posting the pics! That shows me exactly what I wanted to know. I plan to box in above the tub/shower and leave the rest of the beams and t&g exposed. I'm trying to cut out as many of the V.O.C. producing elements as well. Not always sure on how to do that though ??? You used turpentine and mineral oil on your floors right? 61" for the first flight of stairs sounds good to me. I'm trying to squeeze in a code compliant stairway in my 14 x 28 plans. The hardie plank siding looks good too. I'm considering that or T1-11 non groove w/ battens.
I plan to start my cabin either this fall, September/October or next spring. Right now I'm planning a 14 x 28 with a 7' x 28' lean too style addition. Also a porch on the 14' end wall.
I'm curious if you have installed or are planning a secondary heat source, such as MTdon used. (direct vent gas heater).
on a side note carpeting is one of the single biggest V.O.C. producers in a home. I'm not using any in my cabin SYP and tile only :)
Thanks Shawn.
jdhen, what are the wood slates running vertical under your siding for?
it looks like it would hold the house wrap down good.
Quote from: Proud_Poppa on August 07, 2010, 04:24:19 PM
The house is looking awesome!! And so do the sunsets!
Thank you, Proud Poppa!
Quote from: Shawn B on August 07, 2010, 06:43:13 PM
Jdhen, Thanks for posting the pics! That shows me exactly what I wanted to know. I plan to box in above the tub/shower and leave the rest of the beams and t&g exposed. I'm trying to cut out as many of the V.O.C. producing elements as well. Not always sure on how to do that though ??? You used turpentine and mineral oil on your floors right? 61" for the first flight of stairs sounds good to me. I'm trying to squeeze in a code compliant stairway in my 14 x 28 plans. The hardie plank siding looks good too. I'm considering that or T1-11 non groove w/ battens.
I plan to start my cabin either this fall, September/October or next spring. Right now I'm planning a 14 x 28 with a 7' x 28' lean too style addition. Also a porch on the 14' end wall.
I'm curious if you have installed or are planning a secondary heat source, such as MTdon used. (direct vent gas heater).
on a side note carpeting is one of the single biggest V.O.C. producers in a home. I'm not using any in my cabin SYP and tile only :)
Thanks Shawn.
Shawn- We used truly boiled linseed oil (organic even!) mixed with turpentine on the pine floors upstairs. The hardwoods downstairs were treated with the Rubio monocoat, a mix of natural oils and waxes. We're pleased with the results on both of these. The linseed oil was more difficult because of the necessary 7 applications!
I totally agree with you on carpet. That's why all of our rugs are made with natural fiber/wool.
As far as the heating source, my wife and I have lived in Arkansas for 3 years now and have only heated with wood. Our previous home was for us, a sprawling, 3000 sq ft monster and we still only needed the one inefficient woodstove. Sure, if we're gone for the day, when we get back it can be quite cool in the house but we really don't mind dressing warmly for a while until the fire gets the house back up to temp. We figure that with our new, well insulated, small (800 sq ft not including the upstairs) house, it won't take as long to warm up.
I look forward to watching your build progress!
Quote from: astidham on August 07, 2010, 09:24:31 PM
jdhen, what are the wood slates running vertical under your siding for?
it looks like it would hold the house wrap down good.
astidham- the wood furring strips are part of the rainscreen. It creates a 3/8 in drainage plane between the house and the siding so that any moisture that will inevitably migrate into the space, will be easily removed as water vapor. The technology got it's start in Norway when builders realized that you could prolong the life of the siding and the building itself by preventing the trapping of moisture. I understand that it also equalizes the pressure between the outside and inside thus limiting the capillary action of a raindrop.
I first read about it in a Fine Homebuilding magazine and it just made sense to me. It really didn't add much to the cost. I had a local mill cut and plane some local cedar furring strips and nailed them up over the studs. And you're right- the other benefit is that they held the builders felt in place quite well!
Thank you jdhen
Shawn you could also create a dropped T&G ceiling to match the rest of the ceiling. I had to do this in mine. I had a 30" spacing which I utilized for the plumbing of the loft area and vent line for the exhaust fan. By just adding a nailer up the inside face of the beams the thickness of your T&G you can make it appear (or should I say disappear) to blend with the remaining ceiling. I hid the fastners for this area under the light trim. This would enable me to get to that area if any problems arose without a complete demolition of the ceiling.
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_2586-1.jpg)
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/hightop/100_2430-1.jpg)
John, Somehow I missed your reply ??? The lowered T&G looks good too. I can foresee doing that for the range hood exhaust. Since I haven't moved the first shovel of dirt yet there is still plenty of time for all the considerations!
I have started pricing lumber, and roofing metal. For my 4" x 8" x 14' #1 Doug Fir beams was quoted $35.56 with a 35 day lead time. I want to get all the sonotubes in this fall, and the sewer and water pipe (town service) run too.
First, the good news....
We're making slow but steady progress on the siding.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/finger005.jpg)
The bad news is that I almost cut my finger off yesterday! ( I suppose it's good news that I didn't)
After more than a year of building, I finally lost a battle to the worm-drive saw. It was just a routine siding cut......that went terribly wrong! The siding began to fall off of the horse after the cut and I tried to grab it but found the saw blade instead. Doh! d*
The fiber cement blade mangled the cut pretty bad. A few hours later the ER doc apologized that he couldn't make it prettier but he didn't have a clean cut to work with. His main goal was to keep the finger pad sitting flat.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/finger004.jpg)
Now, all of a sudden, I can't meet anyone that doesn't have a finger story! The mailman showed me his half a ring finger. A guy in Lowes offered to help me load some lumber when he saw me struggling- then showed his battle scars and told me that both of his brother's are missing digits after similar accidents. I don't feel so stupid anymore!
I was going to take some time off from building but the insurance company has recently informed me that I better get a railing in the deck....or else! Must press on!
I did similar damage to the same finger, same hand years ago. Instead of a saw it was a glass fiber reinforced hi performance polymer model airplane propeller that nearly sliced the pad off. Good thing it was idling.
Jdhen sorry for the finger. But an old woodworker once told me that there are two kinds of woodworkers. Those who have and those who will. Hope you have a speedy recovery but from past experience I would say it will be a while. Really awkward trying to work with a hurt finger.
As for the railings I am sure that you can whip up something with one hand. Hey make it temporary with scrap 2X4's for now and plan on doing the finished one later. It shouldn't fail because of asthetics from his standpoint.
I have been looking forward to your posts enjoying your thread- until now. That is quite a battle scar, it sort of makes my own finger hurt to look at it. Sorry that happend to you and I wish you a really speedy recovery.
Your place looks great- get back on that horse and continue the good work (when you feel up to it).
All the best-
OUCH!!! Sorry about your accident.
Me - Table saw - other hand - same finger - lost 1/4" off the tip. . . The tip and the nail did gradually grow back, but have some nerve damage.
Keep your finger well wrapped with plenty of antibiotic cream. It will take a good month to heal. . .
I've learned to take a little extra time when working with power tools. And to make sure my work is well supported.
A friend of my dads years ago lost 4 fingers on the left hand with a radial arm saw. My dad mangled his 4 left fingers in a combine accident about 40 years. UofMinn sewed them back together. Was really hi-tech for its time.
Hope the rest of the build is a little more uneventfull for you . . .
/.
House is looking good ;D
Commiserations on the finger - and welcome to the club. :(
- Left index and middle crushed by anchor chain in 2006 - nerve damage, left index tip 3/4 cut off by rock(!) whilst filling gabions shortly afterward. Last year 11 stitches in palm of right hand from metal roofing ... currently have herniated disc, sciatica from years of misuse...
Perhaps there should be a thread for work related injuries as a warning to others...
P.S. just found many a cautionary tale in this thread ...
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4268.0 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4268.0)
Thanks, all, for the supportive words and suggestions. The pain is easing so I'm hopeful that I'll be able to get done what the insurance company wants. I'm a little scared of the circular saw now but I suppose a little fear isn't bad when dealing with a power tool. I might have gotten a too comfortable with it after so many cuts without any problems.
Oh - Ow!....Sharing your "lesson" is good for all of us! :-\
A little fear is a good thing. Since shaving my leg with my chainsaw several years ago, I've found a healthy respect for it [chainsaw].
That looks like a sore finger. The joke around here is that if you hurt that particular finger, you're unable to drive [shocked].
Hope you feel better soon
Actually, Tom, when I put the large white dressing on it makes for an even bolder statement ;D In fact, when I'm at work I tend to keep it extended so it's out of my way and it's the first thing everyone notices!
Thanks for the well wishes.
That picture made me think about this table saw that will not cut you. Bet I could find a way to hurt myself even with this. Very interesting, I invite everyone to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbndZtkfcqs
Lucky the saw didn't catch your ring!
Any updates?? :(
I've gotten a little further than my last post but the main thing is trying to build up the savings :( Sure wish that government money would come in! The IRS sure is dragging their feet on that one d*
There's more siding on than in the last pics, a storm door was added to the north entryway, and we insulated the interior walls of the crawlspace and added a heavy duty vapor barrier. The deck railing is finished and we just insulated the north porch floor.
I'd post some pics but the digital camera conked out and considering the budget, it may be a while before we can replace it.
My finger finally healed, but the nerve damage makes it tough to grab nails from my tool pouch because I can't feel them properly. That's been a bit of a disappointment. At least I have a fingertip :)
Thanks for the interest!
best wishes on the money and the finger. Sounds like your going at the best ya can.
The ring in your finger picture looks a lot like my wedding band did before I was playfully pushed off of a party barge on Greers Ferry Lake many years ago! The ring fit nicely between the railings at the gate opening (picture square tubing bent creating a dished area! :o) and my 200 pounds pulled the ring under the skin and over the knuckle. Many beers later and a pair of side cutters removed the only peice of jewelry I have ever worn,.... Before or since!
I haven't been on the board in a while but your home seems to coming along very well. It looks great. I hope the weather tonight misses you.
OW!!! I hate seeing that :( Sorry you almost cut off your finger :(
I have a couple of friends who lost fingers to saws, both carpenters by trade (one no longer with us due to cancer). I hate to see it.
Now me, I'm the one who shot himself with an air nailer! Those who have and those who will.....
jdhen, your house is looking great. i really like the proportions of the design. looking forward to more interior photos when you can splurge for a new camera. nice color choice on the siding. hope your finger heals quickly without any problems.
Thanks for the kind words, Shallyman.
I did finally get a camera, even if it is an old hand-me-down. At least it was free!
Got some pics of the things we've been working on.
Let's see....we got a vapor barrier down in the crawlspace. The light coat of green mold that was starting to grow on the floor joists was gone in a matter of days! The floors stopped swelling too!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/003-8.jpg)
Makes for a nice clean storage space.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/001-12.jpg)
Finished the built-in bookshelves/ entertainment center in the living room. I plan to put some paneled doors on the spaces housing the TV and the stereo.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/015-2.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/010-7.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics009.jpg)
Started in on the first flight of stairs. Can't decide yet whether or not to paint the risers and skirt board or simply give them a coat of oil.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/014-1.jpg)
The newel post will eventually go where it's supposed to go but I just have it sitting there against the wall. It came out of an old house and sat in a barn for 30 years. We're glad to have it!
Put some simple shelves in the kitchen in the style my wife requested.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics006.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics003.jpg)
I wasn't sure what I wanted to use for base and door trim when my neighbor, who works in construction, offered some oak trim that he'd pulled out of a commercial job and was headed to his burn pile. It has a light coat of varnish and some glue on the backs of the boards but with my belt sander I easily cleaned them up and after a light coat of oil they're beautiful. I have enough to finish out the entire house. After pricing oak boards in Home Depot, I would say I have at least $400 worth of trim!
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/018-3.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/017.jpg)
We've also been busy outside.
Railing for the north porch
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics013.jpg)
Dug 2 - 50 ft permanent raised beds for the garden (only 15 to go!! d*)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics015.jpg)
Started the orchard with 13 apple and 3 pear trees
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics017.jpg)
Fencing to follow but so far the tomato cages have been effective at keeping the deer at bay.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/newhousepics018.jpg)
Yesterday, I started framing the south porch sunroom in. I'll post some more pics as that progresses.
So much to do, it's hard to know where to begin!! Still having fun though...... :)
I think the photo files are larger than my other camera so some of the images are cut off and I'm describing things that can't be seen. I'll have to try to figure this new (old) camera out!
You can change the default image size in photobucket so when you upload their system will size them down.
Jesse looks like you are over the hump. Looking good and probably a good feeling to have gotten so much acccomplished.
That's some beautiful work you have done there.
Looks great! One question it might be the camera angle but the stove looks to close to the combustibles (i.e. The stair treads) do you have any problems with the heat from the stove and the treads?
Looks really like a really warm and welcomeing place. I like the built ins and the kitchen shelves. The wood beams and ceiling also looks really nice contrasted with the white walls.
The place is looking really nice. :)
Quote from: Redoverfarm on January 06, 2011, 10:58:27 PM
Jesse looks like you are over the hump. Looking good and probably a good feeling to have gotten so much acccomplished.
Thanks, Red. It is a good feeling. I'm so appreciative to you and all of the community here for the help and suggestions along the way. I never would have thought I could do something like this if I hadn't seen all the others successfully accomplish the daunting task of building their own home. I'm so glad to have come across this site some 3 or 4 years ago!
Thanks to all for the nice comments!
Quote from: rdzone on January 07, 2011, 12:37:38 AM
Looks great! One question it might be the camera angle but the stove looks to close to the combustibles (i.e. The stair treads) do you have any problems with the heat from the stove and the treads?
Rdzone-The stove is within manufacturer's required distances from the stairs and the walls. We've had hot fires almost daily since November and because of the built in heat shields on the sides and back of the stove, the walls barely get warm at all. In fact, I took the heat shield off of the side that faces the room because I was so disappointed by the lack of radiation out to the side!
Still, I had to laugh (embarrassingly) when I realized I left a box of matches and the wicker basket next to the stove! Not very smart on my part. Thanks for pointing that out.... Would it help for you to know that the fire extinguisher is right around the corner in the closet? :-[
Cool. I hope you don't think I was trying to be critical, because your place looks great! I just didn't want you to have any problems down the road. I can't wait to get to the stage you are at now!
Chuck
I love those built in shelves. Very well done. [cool]
Thought I'd post a couple of pictures of the sun porch.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sunroom007.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sunroom010.jpg)
I used 3 track aluminum storm windows which were a lot cheaper than even the most basic single hung vinyl. The windows are tacked up temporarily while I try to get used to the look of it. It almost feels a little too modern. I think they should blend in a bit more once the windows get trim and small pieces of siding are hung in the space between. I still have to cut the sills for the windows.The door will be a combination screen/storm door. The base of the knee wall will be covered with hardie stucco board and since there's a 10 sheet minimum, the north porch will also get the same treatment to hide the piers.
Even with it not being closed in, it's already working. Yesterday it was sunny and much warmer behind the windows then outside.
Nice to see that the sunsets continue to be strong, even in the winter.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/sunroom004.jpg)
Jesse:
Your place coming along so nicely. Its got to be one of my favorites on here. The size,built ins, great looking from the outside as well. Just a great place...should be proud...wtg! I hope the finiances come into place, lack of funds breeds creativity though.
I will have to show deb your shelves in the kitchen , we want to do something simliar instead of cabinets that you have to OPEN. maybe over the sink somehow so you put them there wet and the water drains saving a step. lol.
Hey Jeff, thanks for the props, man! Means even more coming from someone who's done what you have!
I agree that open shelves are the way to go. Not only do they look good but you don't have to build doors ;D (which I think are a pain)
The finances are slowly working out. It will take longer than we'd hoped but like you and Deb we're adverse to debt so loans are out of the question. At least there's a roof over our head that we owe no one on! That feels real good...and makes some of the mess totally worth it :)
awesome project!! [cool]
just finished reading the whole thing. it is inspring to read - we are in the planning phase and will be for a couple of years.
i really appreciated all the photos you loaded showing us your progress and to help describe some of the challenges you faced (ie, the loft flooring).
Your place looks fantastic! huge contrats!
Very nice project jdhen! First cabin job. You really took that Builder's Cottage plan and did a very nice expansion.
Thank's Duncan. I appreciate the nice comments.
Thank you, John, for your comments and for making the plans available at such a great price. I never would have tried this had I not come across your website!
I'm starting on the east room and I need your or any other of the experts help here. I decided to build the addition based on this book I came across at the library.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/034-1.jpg)
Sorry it's so blurry- hope you can get the idea.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/036-1.jpg)
They show a 10x12 three season porch built on what looks like deck framing, similar to what I did for the north porch. A ledger is bolted to the house, double 2x's are used on the outside to support the walls and roof, joist hangers are used to support floor joists.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/037-2.jpg)
They used 2-2x10's to span roughly 10 feet.
Mine is similar, but I wanted a 12x16 room so I placed the first footers (and soon to be added piers) 8 ft away from the house and 3 more placed 8 more feet from there. It's difficult to see them all because of the long grass. There are a total of 6 piers.
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/031.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/028-1.jpg)
(https://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn223/jdhen8/026-1.jpg)
I'm using 8ft lumber so I'm planning to frame the first section to the first 3 piers as they did in the book. (though using 2x8 lumber to span 7'9". I will leave space on the posts to frame a second 8 foot section to the last 3 piers. I hope this is making sense, it's tough to explain...
My plan is to use doubled 2x8's on the outside to support the walls and roof.
I'm suddenly worried that the 7'9" span for the 2-2x8 beam is too long to support the walls and the roof. Do I need to add another pier between each section, making the span only 4 ft?
I should have posted before I started but the book showed a plan that looked simple but now I have doubts. And I think we all know how tough it is to find a beam span chart for every situation.
This one shows 2-2x8's can go 9'2" http://www.ideasfordeckdesigns.com/calculators/beam-span-calculator.php but is that taking into account wall and roof loads? Most of the other charts I come across are beam sizing for houses starting at 20ft wide which of course has greater weight in the roof.
Need some help....Thanks!
Q: When you state the ledger is bolted, I take that to mean ral bolts with a washer and a nut on the inside, like the ones on the door sill. Noy lags, as my query would then be how thick is the material the lag is screwed into? Min. thickness of the part supporting the ledger load would be equal to 8X the diameter of the lag screw. (mainly putting this here for readers who may think, 'I'll use a lag screw'.
Read this on deck support (http://www.structural101.com/Support-For-Exterior-Deck.html)
Note the post preference. Too late for here, but again, for other future readers/builders.
Thanks to jfmann
Also let it be noted that I believe the newest IRC iterations will not be permitting joists/beams to be secured to the side of a post unless it is notched in. But I can't lay my fingers on that.... might in in the IRC2009 I was looking at, but no more time to browse at present. That said, many decks have been built with joists on the post sides. Maybe some of those collapsed, I dunno. ??? ::)
No issues with the bolting of the ledger, MD. As with the north porch ledger I used 1/2 inch bolts with washers and nuts and more than are required, to boot. Since I used 2x6 framing on the main gabled portion of the house I needed wide rim joists at the ends. There are 2-2x10's with spacers. I placed the 2x spacers at intervals I knew would be at the bolt locations. Consequently, I'm bolting into 3-2x's sandwiched together. I needed long bolts!
If I'm understanding the layout correctly... #2 or better Southern Yellow Pine (SYP), 2-2x8's will carry the gravity loads, I did check a single post landing at midspan... but don't do that. If you stack the loads over the posts below this will reduce the floor beam loads. Remember you can header above as well.
Those books are a pet peeve of mine, the author of that one has a degree in english lit and creative writing. This months Mother Earth News has a shed that must have been designed by a commitee in a bar. The only thought on the publishers' minds is whether they can sell the book.
Thanks, Don. I was hoping you'd respond. Can you elaborate a little on "header above"? Do you mean that I should use 2-2x's for a top plate (on edge, rather than flat as usual) with wall posts (rather than 2x studs) to shunt the roof weight over the posts?
If so, the only problem I see is that there are 3 windows on each side and one of them on each side will fall directly over the post. I guess headering (is that a word?)that weight around the window would still get the bulk of the load closer to the pier, rather than loading the middle of the beam.
Oh, and I think you're right about the books. Looking through some of the other projects and seeing inconsistencies and outright errors is what made me start to doubt the plan I was focusing on!
That's why I was hedging and checked the girder with the load at midspan and it did check for vertical loading. Do read the IRC post on girders on the child board. I am assuming this is gabled and the rafters are landing on the 16' walls perpendicular to the house. I was hoping you could put a doubled 2x10 header over the windows and put their supports down over the piers, sounds like that's not possible but this does work IMO, remember my advice is worth pretty much what you're paying for it. Bracing these rooms full of holes is a concern as well, hopefully you'll fully sheath it and the outer end wall has a decent plywood section to help keep it from racking?
So, I read the post and I see that from the chart, 2-2x8's can span 3'10". Now this is for a 20ft wide building, not 12 ft as mine will be but does that 8 ft difference allow it to span that much further? Did I explain adequately that similar to the picture I posted above from the book the floor joists will be running parallel to the 2-2x8's? Not separately with the floor joists cantilevered perpendicular to the girder as shown in the girder span post.
You are correct in that the roof will be gabled bearing along the 16 ft long walls. As far as the corner bracing, I was planning to have 32 inches between the end walls and the windows to attach my sheathing. I could go a full panel but then the windows would be bunched into the middle and that might not look so good. Isn't 3/4 of a ply panel sufficient to prevent racking?
I was really wanting you to read Mt Don's reply #4 on that thread to understand why I was hedging. The double 2x8's in #2 SYP are working for me but I'm no engineer. I'm reading your snow load as being 20 psf rather than the 30 in the table, you are supporting a roof and ceiling only (do use ceiling joists), that table is for roof, ceiling and 2 floors. The braced panels, if well nailed, sound sufficient to me off the top of my head, I'm still trying to understand the latest round of wall bracing myself.
I understand now. I'll do my best to header the weight over the posts. Thanks for your input, Don.