Are You Going To Vote?

[sparks]

 I'll have to vote early at the county courthouse by a few days.....and I doubt the next two debates will change my mind.......unless there are world boggling events that might happen.

Sooo.... are you going to vote??


sparks

[glenn kangiser]

With computer counting and no paper trail... even more true today.

I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this—who will count the votes, and how.

Joseph Stalin

Any good computer programmer can change the outcome to whatever the oligarchs want with our high tech vote counting....

The leadership wanted by them will be installed no matter what the vote says.  The choice is only two.  Those that would bring peace to the world are not allowed or do not care to compete.  That would destroy the military industrial/world banking complex. 

It will end up war and business as usual until our economy collapses. The greed of those in power is too great to change. Prepare to continue building our 3rd world status. We are Rome.  Nero is fiddling.

Sorry 'bout that.....

[Sassy]

We all should be protesting the electronic voting machines - take a look at this video - it is a real eye opener!  Forget the politics of "right/left" and understand that these voting machines are disenfranchising ALL the population.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pisBdNLmo-A#!

[MountainDon]

Gary Johnson; early vote

[Sassy]

Gary Johnson's a good choice!

[glenn kangiser]

Don't expect true answers to important issues from debates....

According to the 21-page agreement signed by both the Obama and Romney campaigns, no member of the audience will be allowed to ask follow-up questions to the candidates during Tuesday's event. Microphones will be cut off right after questions are asked, and any opportunities for follow-up questions from the crowd will be disregarded and the audience silenced. What's more is even moderator Candy Crowley has been stripped of her right to press the candidates on the questions, effectively diminishing her role to a mere microphone stand as she attempts to guide an audience adamant but unlikely to get answers about the true intentions of the two men battling for the White House.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/110073567/The-2012-Debates-Memorandum-of-Understanding-Between-the-Obama-and-Romney-Campaigns


Article Link

[hpinson]

Wonder what percentage Gary Johnson will bring in? I heard Jon Barrie speak this morning on KOB, and quite liked what he had to say.

[MountainDon]

I'm not even pretending that Johnson will win,      but I don't like either of the two mainstream candidates.  Some will say that voting for Johnson is throwing away a vote. I disagree. One should vote for whoever they like. Voting for a lesser evil is, IMO, a wasted vote. You still end up with someone you don't really like. If you are voting for whoever makes the best pie, for example, you vote for the pie you like best, not the pie you think might win. Maybe voting for Johnson is a protest vote?

[glenn kangiser]

I think you are on the right track, Don.

By all means I still think anyone should do what they feel right about. I realize not everybody looks at things the same way I do...

[Tickhill]

There are different ways one can look at voting for candidates:
Vote straight party lines, ignoring the qualifications of the candidates, Kool-Aid drinkers, any party.
Vote qualifications of the candidates, ignoring party affiliation, within this choice you must choose the candidate that most closely reflects your beliefs on what qualities would be prefered in office.

It has been my experience that local elections, county wide elections most candidates will run as a Democrat but don't carry the mantle of the DNC. However I am seeing more and more local candidates register as Ind. or Republican because more voters are telling the candidates around here that if you register as Dem your not getting my vote, party affiliation matters where conscience is concerned.

Also seeing more people are registering to vote for the first time because of the importance of this election. It has final hit critical mass with some of the people who had only been watching from the sidelines.

Promised changed 4 years ago and we got change alright. I can't go with 4 more years of this, I am blessed with a good job but I am pulling all I can pull, there are more and more jumping in the wagon and fewer and fewer pulling this thing.

I have already scheduled a day of vacation for Wed, Nov. 7th.
 
But either outcome, I will know that I voted for what was truly right in my mind for America, it may not have been my choice for a candidate but at some point you must, as bad as I hate to say it, choose between the lesser of the 2 main evils.
If only Ron Paul had changed his stance on Israel...

Please pray about your choice and vote your convictions, I am.

[Windpower]

"If only Ron Paul had changed his stance on Israel..."

What ?   Ron Paul was consistant with his stance on Israel and every other foreign country - to change his stance on Israel would have made him a inconsistant which he is not. The man has integrity


on another note about Democracy and candidates being treated in gestapo style -- that is, arrested and handcuffed to a metal chair for 8 hours because they wanted to meet with the Comission on Presidential Debates (CPD)

 
" ­Green Party candidates Jill Stein and Cheri Honkala were arrested Tuesday after being denied entrance to the US presidential debates, despite being on 85 per cent of the ballots. "Democracy was taken away from us," Honkala, told RT.

"Jill and I had decided to go before the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD), we wanted to go in [to the debates], we're on 85 per cent of the ballots in this country, and so we thought it should be up to the American people, so that they could listen to us and decide who they wanted to have as their president and their vice-president," Honkala said.

The CPD was established in 1987 to monitor the presidential debates. CPD regulations stipulate that in order to be represented at the debate, a candidate must have at least 15 per cent support across five national polls and have the mathematical possibility to win the election. Tuesday's debates were held by the CPD at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York.

"We've done our homework, it's mathematically possible for Dr. Jill Stein and I to win the presidency, so we should be a part of the debates," Honkala said.

However, despite being on 85 per cent of the ballots, Stein and Honkala were not invited to the big debate that took place Tuesday night.

However, after being denied entry, Stein and Honkala were arrested for blocking traffic.

"We didn't block traffic. We were at a stand-still because we were greeted by tons of officers who did not let us go in to the CPD, did not let us talk to somebody from the CPD."

"We were then arrested by the police officers and then we were taken by secret service to a secret location and we were handcuffed to metal chairs for eight hours in a very cold warehouse," she said."

more here


http://rt.com/usa/news/democracy-honkala-need-people-681/

[Tickhill]

Yes he has integrity, yes I agree more with Ron Paul than Romney except on Israel.
To overlook the Abrahamic covenant is cutting off your nose despite your face. Whether you believe it or not, our declining as a nation has everything to do with our leader's (past and present) proposals for Israel to give up land in exchange for peace.
Gen.12:1-3
Blowing off a meeting request with the leader of Israel so you can campaign is truly asinine.
At some point we will realize that our stake in Israel has more to do with our nation being blessed than what Israel could ever get out it.
Ron Paul in my opinion has been one of the closest (Ross Perot) we have had to a viable 3rd party candidate.
Until a 3rd party starts getting Representatives and Senators elected to the US Houses of Congress, where support for platforms are seen by more Americans, their chance of being elected as President is more symbolic than based in reality.

[Windpower]

Disclaimer I do not endorse Jill Stein


I guess I don't follow your logic, Tickhill

The United States has been in a steady but dramatic decline over the last 40 years in many areas: overall health, one of the highest infant mortality rates of any developed country, millions of abortions, decline of the middle class, economic decline, loss of freedoms, highest prison population on the planet etc etc  -- corresponding pretty much in step with the increasing US support of the aparteid state of Israel with billions of foreign aid and untold billions in military equipment and support. These are not 'proposals' these are actions of the US


doesn't seem like we are being blessed  .....

[Tickhill]

I guess I can't break it down any further. I have never been to a 3rd world country but I have been to "free" European countries and I know we are blessed to live in America. I guess it boils down to one's perspective.

[NM_Shooter]

Some will say that voting for Johnson is throwing away a vote.

Well, you are not throwing away a vote, but you are opting to not help unseat the most dangerous president to the economic integrity of the US.  I don't like Romney much either.  But I simply can not see 4 more years of this rampant "redistribution" and accelerated debt. 

No more Obama-phones.  No more traversing the globe apologizing and bowing.  No more pretending to do away with wars while maintaining a hit list and holding a Nobel Peace Prize.  No more chastising corporate profits while packing money into the pockets of "green" execs as they scoop taxpayer cash into bonuses right before bankruptcy. 

I want a businessman in the white house.  Not a socialist who spoon feeds those with an entitlement attitude. 

[NM_Shooter]

Too bad we can't vote like this:

In his book Fixing Elections: The Failure of America's Winner-Take-All Politics Steven Hill argues for Instant Runoff Voting. In this system, each voter would designate a first choice, a second choice, etc. After all the votes have been cast, everyone's first choice is counted. If some candidate has a majority, he or she is elected. If not, the candidate with the fewest number of votes is disqualified and his or her votes redistributed to the voter's second choice candidate. This process is repeated until some candidate has a majority. In 2000 under this system, voters could have designated Ralph Nader as their first choice and Al Gore as their second choice. When the first choice votes were counted and it was discovered, for example, that Nader came in last (not really, since there were even more minor candidates), his votes would then have been given to the second choice candidate. In effect, a voter could have said: "I want Ralph Nader but if I can't have him, I'll settle for Al Gore." With instant runoff voting, this is possible. This system is used in some municipal elections. Again, any state that chose to adopt it need only pass a state law to do so. No constitutional amendment is required.

[sparks]

  Please bear with me for a couple of voting anecdotes......

I first voted in 1972....the year I turned 18........had long hair then..

Early in 1976, I barrel rolled a low profile three wheeler and hit the gravel face down......then two weeks later I got the chicken pox .....for the second time in my life......at the end of March I voted in the primaries.....there were'nt too many people that would stand near me.......imagine that......I still had long hair. And looked like I'd survived a train wreck.

I stood in the rain for about half an hour to vote in 1980........my hair was much shorter.

I missed the 1984 elections because of the absentee deadline......my hair was beginning to fall out.

Almost missed the 1988 election.........had to threaten a supervisor to let me leave work to vote.....

In the years that have gone by I've handled it much better with regard to voting.....i.e. the timing.

However, now there's more hair on my butt than on my head.

Voting may be a right, ........please never ever forget that it's also a very precious priviledge

Thumbs up on the poll...



sparks

[devildog]

Well, you are not throwing away a vote, but you are opting to not help unseat the most dangerous president to the economic integrity of the US.  I don't like Romney much either.  But I simply can not see 4 more years of this rampant "redistribution" and accelerated debt

well said. i like Romney though. his character, by many testimonies, seems to hold strong.
My 22 yr old in the Marine corps said he was" writing in" chuck norris  because he didnt like either candidate. After a long discussion about the lessor of two evils I hope he understands.

my thoughts are that independent, green  parties may have good ideas but will never actually produce a president. Dont bash me too bad over this statement. I say this only from what i see. I watch FOX news and have never even heard there names until i read these post and we all know the mainstream media supports obama.

semper fi

[peternap]

This is one of the most interesting and enlightening threads in a long time.

I agree with Don, although I'm going to vote for Romney.

I don't see the country surviving as it was. A new America has to be rebuilt.

How soft the landing will be will depend on the Supreme Court I think. There are Justices to be appointed this term and under Obama, the appointments will crash us. Perhaps under Romney, we will be able to slow the crash and rebuild in a methodical way.

Johnson is the best candidate and could possibly stop the free fall, but I'm a realist and know he has no chance of winning.

To sum it up, if I don't have a knife to cut with, I'll use the sharpest rock I can get.

[MikeC]

If support for Israel is the defining test, then any of the 2008 candidates - including Hillary, including Obama - vowed support for Israel.  Only Ron Paul promised to end support to ALL NATIONS.  It should be noted that support for Israel has also resulted in support for Israel's enemies - often more support in aggregate than received by Israel.

"1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. 2 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.""

Three things:

To whom or what is the blessing?
To Abraham


Is support to Israel's enemies a curse, or a blessing?
How do you think will GOD view this?

What is a BIBLICAL blessing, or a curse?
Stuff, extorted money? I don't think so.

So, here we are on the cusp of another election.  One candidate is pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, anti-second amendment, and supports government meddling from cradle to grave in the lives of individuals. 

And then there is Obama.

Two choices.  Each one indistinguishable from the other.

Romney – former governor of the most liberal state in the union.  The state of the Kennedys, of the Bwarney Fwanks, et al.  Think he became governor because he was a conservative in that state?  Or was it simply because he was the most liberal?  Think the author of Romney care will overturn Obama care? Not a chance.

Perhaps some will desperately cling to the belief that Romney is the lesser of two evils. Maybe they will point out they can't stand Obama, that anyone would be preferable, thus reducing the election to a high school popularity contest – we saw how well that worked in the last election. Would they choose Hitler over Mao?



Will I vote?
No, Done with it - decades of voting have demonstrated the utter futility of placing hope in man. 

[MikeC]

Oh yes, a question - since 1948, how has this nation been blessed?  With material wealth?  Like Babylon?  With far flung influence - like Babylon?  With military might - Like Babylon? With perpetual war - like Babylon?  With degenerates in every level of political, business and religious office? Like Babylon?

i'm sure these will be uncomfortable issues to contemplate.

[Tickhill]

MikeC, sorry to see that you are through with voting, it is a right that you can choose not to exercise, many men and women have fought and died for the freedom of this nation, to give you that right, and yes you have the right to exercise free speech to complain about the situation even though you chose not participate by voting your conscience.

The only uncomfortable issue to contemplate in my mind is the fact that the church has not been more salt and light to this world, we have allowed complacency and satisfaction to enter in. We have not been what we were designed to be, a reflection of God's love for the ones around us.
Whether a blessing turns into a curse is entirely on the one receiving the blessing. The giver of the blessing intended nothing but good, the receiver must use the blessing to produce fruit from it.

[devildog]

Perhaps some will desperately cling to the belief that Romney is the lesser of two evils.

good job MikeC. Im glad your not a sniper, you would've taken me out.
I am curious to know what you thought was good before 1948, or maybe what changed in 1948. Im not very up on history.

I personally just cant see where wasting a vote on someone who wont have a chance solves anything. Although if its your conviction to stick to your guns and vote for who you believe in thats your right. but when you dont bother voting at all,well , I guess you get what u get.
Either way somebody is going to lead the country.

[flyingvan]

   If my political outlook were influenced by what happened to Babylon, I'd support whichever candidate had the best plans to keep the Persians out....I'm disappointed, too, that you won't be voting, but moreso disappointed you've lost hope in Man.  I was fed up with our schools, until I took the time to sit in on classes---there are some great teachers and very bright students, and a darned advanced curriculum.  One need only poke around this site to see some impressive things 'men' (I'm using the term in the androgynous sense here,there are talented women right here on this site I've learned from as well) have accomplished.  In the press we hear about politicians' shortcomings, but rarely about actual good they do for public service.  No one is all good and no one is all bad.  There are distinct differences between the two parties, and by NOT voting, their decisions still affect you just the same.

   I hope this is not considered an unfair or inaccurate description oversimplifying left versus right, but here goes--- If you trust people running businesses seeking wealth more, vote Right.  If you trust government and people seeking power more, vote left.   The more local the office, the less you have to concentrate on philosophies and the more you can concentrate on who will best serve the community.

  Finally, by not voting under your name, you run the risk of someone else voting under your name.

   By the way---I'm not 'desperately clinging' to anything.  I'm enthusiatically supporting Romney in the hopes he will lead us back into prosperity through free market values

[Native_NM]

Voted today.