security systems

[okie-guy]

The Cabin I'm building is far away from neighbors and am about half done with it (see builder's forum). About a month ago someone cut the chain on my front gate and stole my cattle trailer and some cattle panels. Luckily they did not continue down the dirt road to where the cabin is.  My wife and I have discussed this and have decided to furnish our cabin alot less fancy and more "basic" as to cabinates and furnishings. My friends and I were discussing this and the question of a home security system can up. I'm thinking about putting one in . My questions are a these. Do you all think I should put a horn on the system to scare people away if the windows ,door or motion is breached or detected. It won't call anybody, it would just let the thiefs know I have a system.
I've been told that Sams sells a system with 2 outdoor and 2 indoor cameras with motion detectors , and a hard drive to record all activity and record over after like 10 days and then recrds over the first.
I've looked on ebay and haven't really seem a whole system that records like I want.
Have anyone put in a similar system? what brands and web sites to go to would be appriciated. I haven't sheet rocked yet so I think now is the time to run  lines. Any ideas would be helpful.

[georgevacabin]

Great Question.  I have a site that is also deep in the woods.  Any suggestions on how to make (in my case) a hunting cabin less inviting?  It will be used a few weeks in the summer for camping and in the fall hunting season.  Thanks!

[glenn-k]

Other than out of the box systems, if you are into roll-your-own, here is something that may help.  Most of the software is available free for download if I recall correctly -

Could be good if you have an old computer lying around and can get Windows to work without crashing every few hours.

http://www.simplehelp.net/2006/09/27/how-to-use-your-pc-and-webcam-as-a-motion-detecting-and-recording-security-camera/

[Bouncer]

I had this problem when I started building. I put up a gate with a lock that can't be cut. So if someone wanted to get in there it take some work and most crooks don't like to. Haven't had any problems in 3 years.
Kevin

[okie-guy]

Glenn- I'm building a hidden storage under the stairs to store guns, valuables, etc. It is 24"X24"X24" so I can't fit a PC in there.
George- Does your place have electricity or will you have to use a battery. I have heard of battery operated systems that have a horn and a motion detector. But once they realize nobody can hear it ,it doesn't mean much.
Kevin- I owned some carwashes for 22 years and we used an American 2000 haspless lock which can't  be cut. After these thiefs cut my chain with a bolt cutter at my farm  ; I bought the biggest chain that I could and ordered American I think 75 lock. What did you use? The chain is the weak point not the lock.What did you use?
I don't know if I should use hidden camers or leave them in the open. I'm thinking hidden cause I don't want them tearing the place apart looking for the recorder. But I think I will put a horn up just to scare away the ameraturs.
Keep the ideas coming.

[Bouncer]

Okie
I don't remember the name of the lock but the sides come up so the only spot they could get cutters or hammer on it is the very top. But when you put the chain on that part is covered to. The only problem is it takes a couple of extra seconds to lock the chain around my gate.So if you get a real good lock and a thick chainyou should discourge 95% of the people. Most times it is just kids. Other lazy thiefs were if they have to work for it  they will move on to someone else. Your place sounds like mine. The gates at the road and you drive about a 1/4 mile back into the woods to get to the cabin.
Kevin

Remember if they want to get in they will. But the harder you make the more of them you'll keep out

[georgevacabin]

Hey okie-guy,

No power on the site.  And none will be installed.  I have a friend who had land in PA.  Put a small trailer on it and promptly had it burned down assumably by kids.  Just wondering if leaving it open, empty, with plenty of windows is the way to go to make is less inviting.  Deep in the woods.  46 acres in central va.

Thanks!

[glenn-k]

A friend said he put up a fake camera - red blink light helps - it stopped the stupid ones.

[firefox]

How about a sound recording of a mountain lion? Set up two or three remote speakers so
the sound doesn't always come from the same place.  Also several different screams. I understand that
they are quite terrifying, although I have never heard one.
Just an idea,
Bruce

[FrankInWI]

I remember pictures somewhere on countryplans of a cabin/house being built in Alaska.  It had real functional shutters for the windows.  There was a lot of added security when they were closed up, part of it psychological, but hung right they could be a pain to break through too.  The looked great too when in the open position.  

[peter_nap]

I hate to admit this .......but the best way I've found to keep people out is for them to be afraid to go there. I have a very remote place in Va with a camper on it now. During hunting season, a hunt club leases the adjoining land. They have a reputation of doing what they please. They lived up to their reputation and when I started rounding them upm even got pushy.
That didn't work very well.

After the first day of hunting season, they wouldn't even hunt on their lease.

As with most rural areas, word spreads fast. I have had no problem with trespassers since and the locals I know well think it's funny as can be.

I also have game cameras scattered over the whole property.

[MountainDon]

Others have said it... make it as difficult as you can for anyone to get thru the gate. I know of an instance where the gate panels were dismantled and the locked chain left hanging there with a portion of the gate. I share a welded pipe gate with a neighbor. We have with a lock that can't be accessed with a cutting tool.... short of an oxy-acetylene torch.

That still won't keep out someone who is determined to walk the 1/4 mile up the hill to the cabin site. Back home a number of years ago somebody broke into four cabins in the winter time. They used a chain saw to cut a hole through a wall on each cabin. Too bad the power wasn't on as they cut thru  some electrical cables.

For a remote site with no likelihood of anyone hearing an alarm horn or siren I would not use an alarm in hopes of scaring them off.  However, if there was a source of electricity (I will have a solar PV system) I would like to install a hidden set of cameras with hidden recording system that would be actuated by sensors of some kind. I would hope to capture images of vehicles and identifiable faces that could be used by law enforcement. A fake visible camera or two in plain view might deter some would be burlars.

One problem with a place left vacant for months is knowing what the status is at any particular time.

If insurance is available at whatever you consider to be a reasonable price I'd be sure to insure the place and contents and have photo/video evidence of belongings.

[JRR]

I once bought a fancy old Southern mansion that had been left to ruin.  This was many years ago when valdalism wasn't so prevalent.  This place had the four tall sculptured porch columns, eight fireplaces, rows of oak trees on the round drive way, etc, etc.  But the condition of the building caused the price to be very low.

It wasn't totally remote, but there were no very close neighbors.  And it was 300 mi from where we currently lived.  Restoring it became our vacation and free time for a couple of years.  

We replaced the leaking roof, repaired the porch, replaced the few missing clapboards, gave it a fresh coat of exterior paint, cleared the yards of vines and undergrowth  ... it was beginning to look very good.   So good, in fact, that passersby started stopping by just to see what the city guys were doing.  Work slowed down as we did not discourage the enjoyable visits.

One day while reviewing my growing and substantial investment, I suddenly realized that a rather large expenditure was totally unprotected.  No insurance was available because the house was not inhabited.  One careless cigarette and much could be lost!

I quickly put the unfinished project on the market.  Hated to do it, but it was beginning to be stressful ... not fun.  The place sold quickly and I was able to recover all my money ... but not my efforts.

The next owner moved in and quickly made the place look really fantastic!  We were pleased to see the finished product.

(A few years later it burned to the ground.  We never knew what caused the fire.)

No more remote buildings, of value, for me ... unless there are friendly neighbors or somethling to deter mischef.

[tanya]

I have lived in remote areas most of my life and the best security system is knowing hte neighbors.  Even if they are a mile away and there are no others for several miles people pay attention to who is using the road.  Setting up a security system and gun safes and solar only makes it more worthwhile for theives to go in there.  One thing I always do though is make damn sure the road is inaccessible except by truck the more rocks and ruts and mud the better.  gates are pretty much worthless, again jsut more for a theif to steal but some good deep mud and ruts that will keep them out.  

[georgevacabin]

Great to hear your experiences.  Thanks!  And Tanya your thoughts are dead on.  I got stuck in a huge rut leading into my property last year!

[okie-guy]

Peter- The game cameras for George is a good idea for some one with no electricity. I have one set up on my place for Wild Turkeys and you can set mine to take 1 or 2 pictures for every movement detection. Also you can set a pause between detections so a grazing deer doesn't use up all your memory. It uses motion during the day and inferred heat at night. If you set one up along the road leading to the cabin, you could catch anybody driving or walking up the road. Mine holds 55 pictures at the high quality setting ,but you can put a flash memory card from a camera in a slot in the game camera and have room for 5 or 600 pictures.plus after a few months it might be interesting what you catch on the camera.

[MountainDon]

Game cameras!! Cool idea! Never gave them any thought. I'll have to have a deeper look into their capabilities, but a quick Google indicated lots of promise. Thanks!

[firefox]

The mud and rocks gave me an idea. A crazy one, no doubt.
Set up a monstrous looking roadblock that looks inpenetrible,
but have a easy looking detour around it showing vehicle tracks.
In the middle of the detour is a camouflaged pit...
Bruce

[MountainDon]

Bruce, maybe one could "capture" and ransom off the vehicles?     :-/   After all if the capture pit was on posted private property. Be certain to have posted "No Trespassing" signs, and have proof of the signs existence (photos, etc.), and go from there.

Proper signage will also go a long ways to help protect oneself against frivolous lawsuits. It won't protect you from the lawsuit being filed, but can help in winning your case. Been down that road and it's no fun... made me even more of a cynic.  

[glenn kangiser]

By proper signage you mean this one?

[MountainDon]

I like and have that as well as the more generic "Keep Out. Private Property.  No Trespassing, No Hunting, No Fishing, No Hiking, No Skateboarding, No Public Access. Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted. Beware of Dog's Owner. Enforcement by Smith & Wesson."   (I really should take a picture of it.)

The $5000 a day sign is specifically aimed at a wide variety of Officialdom, but doesn't really address the other scum-of-the-earth, the low-down good for nothing miscreant / vandal / burglar / thief....

[glenn kangiser]

I guess you need to cover all bases.

[georgevacabin]

Great sign Glenn.

MountainDon - sounds like you've had some trouble on your property.  Do tell!

[MountainDon]

George, not at the present mountain property. If it wasn't for the time consumed, the worry and the cost of consulting a lawyer it would be comical... well, I can laugh now. Sort of...   :-/

A few years ago I owned a country fixer-upper house that I took a couple months to work on before reselling it. A couple of good-for-nothings entered the posted property and were breaking in when one of them stepped in a hole, twisted and ankle, fell and broke an arm. At least I believe they were breaking in because someone broke in that very same night. They said they were just "looking around. At night!?

As a result of the broken arm he lost his job as a furniture mover. He then had the notion to sue me for his injuries and lost wages in small claims court. He went for the $10K maximum here in NM. We went to court where I showed the judge pictures of the property with the signs posted. The judge was a common sense sort of a guy and threw out the case and gave me a judgment to collect my expenses. I never did collect on it because the low-life never made enough money. After the first year I had the judgment renewed and then gave up.

I've also been sued by a tenant I evicted over property damages he and his friends did. The suit was based on a trumped up item and outright lies. We prevailed once again because we could show a paper trail and had photos and video, but once again there was the time loss, worry and lawyer fees.

Hence my cynical view of what humans can and will do if they think they can get away with it. They're so stupid they can't even see the falacy of what they are getting themselves into.

[John_C]

.... scum-of-the-earth, the low-down good for nothing miscreant / vandal / burglar / thief....

C'mon Don.  Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.