Rant, Rant Rant Flood Insurance

[Redoverfarm]

What happened to common sense.  Oh well you can throw that out the window when it concerns the goverment.  A couple days ago I got a letter from by lending institution ( GMAC) for which I have had a house loan for the past 15 years and only have about 1-1/2 years remaining. The gist of the letter was that my residence is considered in the Special Flood Hazard Area (SFHA) flood plain as defined by FEMA. They further state that I am required to obtain Flood Insurance.  They further state that if proof is not received within 45 days they will purchase the insurance and it will be added to my payments. What really stinks is what happened to the first 13-1/2 years it is was so important.

OK they further advise that to contest the determination I must obtain from FEMA documentation that my residence is not in the flood plain. That documentation is a Letter of  Map Admendment (LOMA) or a revision.  Now for the PIA.  FEMA states that it is approximately 60 days turn around for this.    45 day due date by GMAC and 60 for FEMA. In reading the application which consist of approximately 3 pages it requires that elevation readings and everything else which may include my first born (but I hadn't got that far yet) but the majority requirted by a licensed surveyor at  $$$ and other professional documentation.

I have lived here and went through 2- 100 year floods in the nearby town at which time the water level has never risen to even cover my driveway or bridge let alone the house which will never happen.  If it does I will be calling on Noah to stop by in his Ark and pick me up.  The lender stated why not go ahead and buy the insurance for such a short period of time.  I am not cheap but I refuse to purchase something I don't need.  House insurance against fire, theft or vandalism is possible so I buy it. But Flood insurance I think not.  

So I contact a friend who does the mapping for this county on the Flood Plain.  He forwards me with a FEMA airel map which clearly shows that the house is not in the flood plain.  You think that would suffice but according to the lender they will only accept FEMA documentation.  After a lengthly conversation he agreed to look at that map ( After I threatened to seek other finances and terminate the loan).  Which I will do if push comes to shove.  He further advises that it is not just the residence but the property considered in the flood plain, BULL.  The house is what is mortgaged not the property. Imagine owning several hundred acres that joins a small stream and the house sets atop a mountain.  Should that individual have to have flood insurance on his home just because his land adjoins a stream . 

Anyway I thought I would pass this along for anyone that is building near a stream and has to have a lending corporation to contend with.  It may be a good idea to have the surveyor at the time of the survey to include some elevation points and document for future reference.

Anyway here is the link that I was given which clearly shows the residence and the flood plain boundries for my house.  After looking is there any doubt in your mind. What is not seen is the elevation which is clearly 30-35 feet above the driveway which the second photograph depicts.

Anyway we will see after I forward it to the lender.  Just FYI.



C:\Documents and Settings\John Casto\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\UKHTIYEP\WV_FEMA_Determination_Tool_2_morgantown339638444624[1].pdf

OK I was unable to post the link so here is a photo of the picture displayed on the above link.

[dug]

I went through the same deal while living in Tucson. Got re-zoned into the floodplain even though my house was perched atop a substantial hill. I remember thinking the same thing as you did- "I'm building an ark if the water gets up this high!".

We fought it and got it re-zoned, hope it works out the same for you.

[rwanders]

  Invariably, the only persons you get to talk too in this kind of problem are ones who have no authority to do anything but just parrot the same stuff back at you. When you attempt to get a boss who does they sometimes just transfer you to the next doofus who pretends to be his boss. I have friends who handle customer service calls, both told me the same methods are used to wearout folks like you---their companies feel that those with a real problem won't give up.

The people with any real authority try and keep at least 3 layers of barriers between you and them. Any change or accommodation for you only represents a risk for them that the next layer above them will not approve of their actions---no personal upside for them at all to even listen to your problem.

[devildog]

We purchased a church that is in a flood zone and we're converting it residential. Fortunatly, the bank owning it agreed to pay $2100 for the flood elevation. FEMA made these maps up and you have to prove your not in it.
It's more than 440' away from the creek and over 20' higher. The bottom 1' is of the crawl space is all thats in it.The finished floor is 3.5' above it. But in order to purchase with bank loan we have to pay. the highest deductible was $5000 which still cost us $400 a yr.

The part that really made me angry,was while talking with a little old lady that lives next to the creek in a trailer for the past 60+ yrs says the creek has only gotten up to the road twice in her time there. and thats still 430' from my house

I was told by the zoning dept. and the bank that as long as the "structure" was not in the 100 yr flood plain I wouldnt have to carry flood ins. so I wouldnt think you'd have to pay

Darrell

[Hi Road]

The airel picture looks dated?  The front view of the house appears larger than the aerel view?  Is that the most recent flood plain map?  Here in Washington (left coast) they have recently adjusted the flood elevations.  We have new FEMA maps.  There are are a lot of people affected by the rearrangement of the flood zone boundaries.  Take note:  I have been told that after you make three flood claims to FEMA you could get the boot out of the insurance plan.        More floods =more insurance pool money paid out=larger flood zones=more people to pay into the fund

[JRR]

We all know the insurance companies and the gov'ment are in bed together.  Just wait 'til we all have to pay ever higher prices on health insurance to comply with enforced Obamacare mandates!

[hpinson]

I hate to say it, but by the looks of that West Virginia Technical Center GIS air photo, you are in a flood plain. The demarcated boundaries do not look particularly accrurate... probably digitized by an intern. Your house is raised up a bit, maybe on a terrace.   At some point that terrace may well flood, you just haven't experienced it.  I looked at the Cochran Creek, WV, area in Google Earth, and it seems like it is mountainous and would be susceptible to some pretty severe flooding on occasion. I suspect a survey will tell you the same.  A 200 or 500 year flood could come tomorrow.  I was a bridge inspector for a number of years in similar terrain, so have a little experience.

Can't say I agree with you being forced to get the insurance though.... that should be up to you.

[Pine Cone]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Hpinson.  The house is on a floodplain of some sort.



The flat ground between a hill and stream looks like a floodplain from a geomorphological standpoint.  Wouldn't be that flat otherwise.  The issue is whether that floodplain is a 50-year or 100-year or 5000-year floodplain.  That I can't answer, but I'll bet that FEMA doesn't have good enough data to justify their claims, especially if you have real data from recent flood events.  

In any case, your house is clearly higher than the driveway or the bridge.  Looking on Google maps your bridge is at least 450 horizontal feet and probably 20-40 vertical feet lower than the base of the house's foundation.  

I'd fight them, especially since the maximum extent of the floodplain on your FEMA map doesn't come close to the house.  Unfortunately, that probably means paying a surveyor to prove the obvious.  It's just another facet of "I'm the government and I'm stupid.  Pay me or pay someone else enough and I'll go away for a while."  Think of it as your opportunity to help stimulate the economic recovery.  

In any case, common sense and any government institution are light-years further apart than your house and any stream.  It's probably illegal to even mention common sense and government in the same sentence.

Good luck and don't let the B*****ds get you down!  You're supposed to feel grateful that they don't want to charge you for the 13.5 years of flood insurance you never had.

[Don_P]

We do have enough people looking out for our welfare to force the common man into homelessness. Looking at the costs, would it be cheaper to take out a personal loan to pay off the note?

I can sort of see both sides of these arguments. A client on one job had us park our camper down by the creek, beautiful spot, he had lived there for 50 years and had never seen the creek come up to where we were. It took a very large tractor to pull us out of the floodwaters late one night.

[devildog]

Don P has the right answer. You dont need insurance without a lender. We're making a plan to pay our house off in 5-8 yrs., that will save us thousands. The cost of the ins. is decided by govt. It like everything else  it will eventually go up
Get quote from surveyor and put that much down on paying off mortgage. Out of 3 the cheapest was $2100
Darrell

[SouthernTier]

If you need a L.S. stamp no ifs ands or buts, this will not help, but you could check out CLICK (brought to you by those evil government types  ) and see if there are any LIDAR data available for your area in the Data Viewer.  There are some LIDAR data available where I am in western NY that were collected specifically for flood control issues.  Such data could be used by your GIS friend to provide good elevation data, as good as you will get from any surveyor, at least for comparison to their flood plain elevations determination, and especially considering you have unforested land in the area you are interested.  These data are much finer-grained than DEM (digital elevation model) data which are no more accurate than the contours you would see on a map.

Personnaly, I would always be hesitant locating near a river.  You never know when it's going to rise a tremendous amount.  Note, it isn't the gov't telling you need the insurance, it is the lender, tring to protect their loan's collateral just as they require fire insurance.  However, that doesn't mean that they couldn't use some common sense in situations like these.  Instead, these decisions are just being made by some paper pushers.

[Redoverfarm]

Well " I fought the law and the law Didn't win".  As Paul Harvey would say " Now for the rest of the story".  Since my initial letter from the mortgage company I was hit again by another company which holds the Equity Line Deed of Trust on the house.  I had been utilizing this as the building fund for the cabin.  Same story with them requiring flood insurance.  Guess what.  This is a portion of the letter that I received from the mortgage company.  "We are pleased to inform you the requirement for flood insurance on your mortgage is no longer neessary due to your property not being in the Special Flood Hazard Area".  Just moments ago I received a telephone call from the equity loan company advising the same with a letter to follow.   

[rwanders]

 

Sometimes good things do happen to good people. Especially to stubborn ones who don't give up.

Congratulations

[fishing_guy]

Congratulations!

[Redoverfarm]

Sometimes good things do happen to good people. Especially to stubborn ones who don't give up.

Congratulations

Thanks but it makes me wonder how many other people are caught in the same situation and either for the lack of documentation or resources surrender. 

[ScottA]

This seems to be a recent trend. I've read several articles over the last few months about lots of people getting the same kinds of letter. In some cases the banks have even back dated the letters and bought the insurance before the letters where sent. My guess is the bank owns the insurance company or the other way around. The trend seems to be that the banks are starting to act like they own the property rather than the note.