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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: smcdaniel345 on March 30, 2009, 07:51:58 PM

Title: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on March 30, 2009, 07:51:58 PM
I was cruising the internet one day and stumbled across this deal.  15.5 acres for $30,000.  We later determined that the previous owner, who was being foreclosed on, paid $105,000.

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0088.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0086.jpg)

It's currently 15 acres of mesquite (mostly the little scragly stuff), but we are working on it a little at a time. 

We found a nice clear spot and decided to build a cabin.  Orignally we were looking at 20X30 with a 20X12 loft.  Then I messed up on measuring for the concrete pillars and added 6 foot.  Then my husband decided to take the front wall all the way, instead of leaving a front porch - another 6 foot.  So we know have 20X42.  Upstairs - another 6 foot, and we have 20X18.  So we are now up to 1200 square foot.

This is the floor plan

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/FloorPlan.jpg)

Here's a little of what we have so far.

The footers and the first beams.
(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0704.jpg)

The completed beams with almost completed floor joists.
(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0721.jpg)

We were about 1/2 way thru when my brother in law happened to glance up and notice we were under a power line.  It's an old abandoned line, but it's still there.  And it ended one post past where we decided the house should be.  Luckily, my husband has never met a stranger and he had such a good time talking with the electrical representative that they agreed to take it down. [cool]

Last weekend, we finished the floor joists, and now we are debating insulation options.  I want more, my husband and brother in law thinks it's overkill.  We will see who wins.   ::)
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on March 30, 2009, 08:07:57 PM
You can almost not have too much insulation, as a few years down the road the standards may call for more.

That said, what are you thinking of and what do the others think is enough?
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on March 30, 2009, 08:13:39 PM
On the floor, I want to insulate with the fiberglass batts between the joists and then put 2" foam board underneath.  One for insulation and two for protection for the floor joists from the elements.

My brother in law keeps going on about any insulation is more than what most people do and that the foam is overkill. 

Husband can't quite decide who to side with.  He understands my view, but also agrees with his brother.  (But he also knows who he goes home with at night :) )

So, the walls and roof - same thing.  Except, since we will have cathedral ceilings, I want 2 layers of the foam on the ceiling.  And all the batt insulations - I would like to use the high density batts.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on March 30, 2009, 08:25:46 PM
Spray in foams offer the most insulation value per inch, at the highest installation cost.

I like wet blown cellulose for walls and cathedral ceilings. Ditto for the floor if the installer can get under there. It helps with air infiltration sealing as well.

Regular attics can be done with dry blown in as a DIY job. The other above methods require a pro.

Have you looked at the Building Science website where they have developed climate specific insulation methods?

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on March 30, 2009, 08:43:49 PM
I have looked at the building science web page.  And there is another that I have been looking at - NAIME or something like that.  I will find the name shortly and post it.  And I have been following the hot-humid recommendations, since that's the area I am in.

We like the spray in foam - but that's not something we can do ourselves and part of this journey is to be able to say 'I did that'.

But yes - I have been doing my research.  My husband is about tired of me being on the computer 'researching' (a lot of it on this site also).  And my brother in law said something along the lines of 'he loves working with me, but I argue with him to much'.

I had this dream of a concrete house - concrete slab, concrete walls, metal roof.  I had everything all lined out, it was going to be great.  And it would maintain an temp, on it's on, between 65-75 year round.  But then the economy and the thoughts of no mortgage came.  And now we have an overgrown cabin.  But I will have tile floors, concrete countertops and several other elements.  And I will have the superinsulation - as my brother in law calls it.  I don't want to hook up to the power company or the water company.  Not that I'm extremist, I just don't like being dependent on someone else to supply for me.  I finally compromised and agreed we could hook up to the power company, but if the bill ever gets over $25, I have threatened to cut the line.  And we will have solar panels and such.  And a rainwater collection system. 

I think my husband is about ready to commit me at the moment.  Every time I start talking about a new area, his eyes glaze over and he starts saying 'yes dear, yes dear'
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on March 30, 2009, 09:14:03 PM
Actually, I have been following the Building Science information.  I am using this link as a guide.

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/primers/plonearticlemultipage.2006-11-17.6022614454 (http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/primers/plonearticlemultipage.2006-11-17.6022614454)

This is the other one I have been browsing - it's NAIMA

http://www.naima.org/pages/resources/library/library.html (http://www.naima.org/pages/resources/library/library.html)

I have also been doing a lot of research at Toolbase.org

And also this one - http://www.austinenergy.com/Energy%20Efficiency/Programs/Green%20Building/Sourcebook/index.htm (http://www.austinenergy.com/Energy%20Efficiency/Programs/Green%20Building/Sourcebook/index.htm)
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on March 31, 2009, 12:09:49 AM
Looks like quite a project - :)

I assume the concrete blocks are extensions of a footer dug into the ground a bit and were used to extend the poured concrete up to the level of the beams?
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on March 31, 2009, 05:50:57 AM
Yes - there are concrete footers approx 2 foot deep, then the concrete blocks set on top.

Although I do have a question - my brother in law insisted on using flat concrete blocks on top of the cinder blocks, so we couldn't use the anchors that get cemented in.  What would be the best way to anchor it down now?

We live outside of Austin, so we have good winds and an occasional random tornado.  I just don't want it going sideways and ending up in the mud.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 03, 2009, 11:38:40 AM
At this point I think you need to find some Simpson straps that can be nailed to the wood and anchored to the concrete blocks. I don't have any one thing in mind though

Simpson product line is here (http://www.strongtie.com/products/alpha_list.html?source=topnav)

Are those blocks filled with concrete and rebar and tied to the footing with rebar?
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: pagan on April 03, 2009, 12:15:48 PM
One inch high-R foam on the inside walls with dense packed cellulose in the wall cavity. Tape all of the high-R seams with foil tape and then use wood strapping and screws to secure it to the studs, otherwise when you dense pack the walls it'll blow the high-R off the wall. You can secure the sheet rock right to the strapping. This method stops any thermal bridging. The high-R gives you about R-6.5 and the dense pack gives about R-3 per inch. So a 2x4 wall will provide roughly R-16 and a 2x6 wall would give around R- 24.5. You can do the same thing for the floors and roof. When I was doing insulation work we were told that spray foam and dense pack cellulose were the only to insulation materials that could be used in a roof without vents. Check codes in your area to be sure, though. I can give you a more detailed description if you're interested. The equipment for dense packing cellulose can be rented so this could be a DIY job.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 03, 2009, 07:21:31 PM
MountainDon - Yes to the rebar and cement.  They poured the footers, let them set just a little and then put rebar in at angles.  After it all set up good, they put the concrete blocks on and filled them with cement.  Then they put solid concrete blocks 2 or 4 inches thick on top to bring them up to level.

Can I drill/screw/whatever into the concrete blocks?  My husband was thinking we could get some of the ties downs like they use for mobile homes and use those.  That would secure it to the ground, but not the blocks. 
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 03, 2009, 07:36:57 PM
I was asking about the blocks because if they are filled and rebarred I'd tie the wood to the blocks. That's just a feeling, not an engineered fact.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 03, 2009, 08:03:31 PM
You could use "flue blocks" as your last block on the footer for double stack.  It would have enough area to set the Simpson Concrete fastners in.  They are basicly the same demensions as a double eight if you were going to build the pier out if Double stacked eights.  In single course piers they would be of no value though.

If you were looking for tie downs and there was nothing available to mate the wood with the block you might look into turnbuckle style tie downs.  You can use a standard J wall/sill plate anchor and lay it horizontal in the mortar joint of the block.  Then use a eye bolt or similar in the wood portion and attach your turn buckle to those.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: cbc58 on April 04, 2009, 08:36:08 AM
your plan is nearly exactly what I came up with for a design... (20x38) though without the laundry room... so I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.   i was toying with the idea of putting a small loft at the front of the house accessible by a ladder for xtra space & some storage...

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on April 04, 2009, 09:20:03 AM
Quote from: smcdaniel345 on March 31, 2009, 05:50:57 AM
Yes - there are concrete footers approx 2 foot deep, then the concrete blocks set on top.

Although I do have a question - my brother in law insisted on using flat concrete blocks on top of the cinder blocks, so we couldn't use the anchors that get cemented in.  What would be the best way to anchor it down now?

We live outside of Austin, so we have good winds and an occasional random tornado.  I just don't want it going sideways and ending up in the mud.

You are concerned about the same thing I am. I don't fully understand your plan or elevation but let me throw a real crude "what if" out there. If the structure is about 20' tall and 40' long it presents 1200 square feet of sail to a broadside wind. At 100 mph the wind pressure is around 30 lbs per square foot. It's shoving on the building with about 36,000 lbs of force. This doesn't account for wind under the building or lifting at the eaves. The overturning or sliding concern seems very real to me without some good bracing against those lateral forces.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on April 04, 2009, 05:04:08 PM
Yes, you need a way to tie the beams, floor and wall studs into the piers and footings. This provides racking and uplift protection. With the flat concrete blocks you have broken that connection and are relying only on weight and the minimal friction between the blocks to keep the house on the piers.

The Conc. Pier detail on sheet 1A of the 20' wide 1-1/2 story plans (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/50.html) shows how to do this with tube poured piers. You could do the same with concrete block piers but you want the rebar to go all the way from the footing and be wired to the beam support bracket (I show an EPB or equal). The tie to the wall and floor comes from the sheathing being nailed off to the top of the beam. This is sufficient for most locations (but not necessarily higher level wind or earthquake areas). See also the the Bracing and PT Post Foundation details and the "Earthquake and Wind Bracing" information in the booklet that came with the plans (assuming you have my plans. :D)

At this point you could probably drill a couple of bolt holes in the sides of each pier (into the reinforced block section) then epoxy in bolts for steel straps that could go up over the beam, get nailed into the rim, and even continue up and be nailed into the wall studs. That would tie it all together nicely.

You can probably find something that will work here: http://www.strongtie.com/products/categories/straps_ww.html (mouse over each one to see a diagram)

If you do experience 100 mph winds this will be extra work but cheap insurance. 8)

Alternative idea: See what types of auger tie downs are done in your area for mobile home installations - these are usually some combination of earth augers and straps. That may be easier to put in. But do more than the minimum since you have a taller building (more sail area) than a double wide.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 05, 2009, 09:41:18 PM
Thanks to all for the information.  And no, we didn't buy any plans :(.  But I do like the plans you have.  I am working to convince my husband before we go any farther that we need to.  I think it would be good.  From some of the other pieces, there have been references to several areas that we are going to run into before it's over with.  And having the plans to look at would be great and probably prevent a lot of head scratching.

And someone referenced the 'shear weight of the building' holding it in place.  That is exactly what my brother in law keeps saying.  But I don't feel that it's right.  At this point, my husband has gotten the auger tie downs. 

For now, we have finished the floor.
(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0009.jpg)

And has I have seen mentioned several times-here are the dancers!!

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0012.jpg)

The one towards the back in the pink dress is mine (Shyanne), the others are friends of hers.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 09, 2009, 12:37:14 AM
Cool - the dancing on the deck pix. Thanks. 

I also was going to recommend getting a rotohammer and drilling into the piers  and using epoxy.  I like the Hilti HY150 but Simpson works too if you have lots of time to let it set.

The augers should work though.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 09, 2009, 06:42:06 PM
Drilling into the piers?  Just for clarification - the piers are concrete blocks filled with concrete above ground.  Is it ok to drill into the concrete block into the interior concrete?  I would really prefer to do it that way because it would be cleaner and it wouldn't have the straps interfering with any needs underneath.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 09, 2009, 06:52:19 PM
If the piers are properly filled, concrete tamped/vibrated, then there is no problem with drilling into the block and filler concrete for anchors.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 09, 2009, 11:35:06 PM
Quote from: smcdaniel345 on April 09, 2009, 06:42:06 PM
Drilling into the piers?  Just for clarification - the piers are concrete blocks filled with concrete above ground.  Is it ok to drill into the concrete block into the interior concrete?  I would really prefer to do it that way because it would be cleaner and it wouldn't have the straps interfering with any needs underneath.

Sure - You would want to drill down to get between the rebars to hold things together.  A rotohammer can be rented if desired and the holes can each be drilled in around 5 minutes - if you rent a decent sized one.  Clean the hole by pulling the drill out wile rotating to keep it from binding from the dust.  The hole should be 1/8" larger than the anchor - 1/2" all thread - 5/8 hole   5/8 all thread - 3/4 hole (I would use this size)  Brush and blow the hole clean - dust will prevent a proper bond.  I would use an angle iron with holes down and sideways -- possibly you can find a manufactured clip or strap  that will work.  Simpson epoxy works well in vertical holes - it is runnier than Hilti.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 10, 2009, 01:26:47 PM
We will try that.

On a different note, my husband went and talked with McCoy's Lumber.  Told them we were building and etc.  They set us up an customer account with anywhere from 3-5% discounts.  That combined with craigslist and the Habitat Restore should help keep our costs down.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 10, 2009, 03:52:59 PM
Sounds great.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 12, 2009, 04:05:55 PM
How long can a framed wall be exposed?  We are finally starting to get some rain showers (not much, but a little).  Most have been quickies, 5-10 minutes and then clear for the rest of the week.  However, following on a 18 month drought, we are not real sure what to expect.

We are building in pieces with each paycheck (no mortgage at the end!).  That boils down to every 2 weeks or so.  And now husband is getting concerned about building more and having it exposed to the elements.  Last week we got the plywood down, next week is the 4 main walls, 2 weeks for the upper loft floor and gable ends, 2 weeks for the roof framing, 2 weeks for the all the sheathing and housewrap.  Will the walls be ok?  Or should we start saving up and in 6 weeks or so buy everything at once? 

I have read thru several of the posts and many talk about rain/snow.  But none mention a time frame. 
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 12, 2009, 04:33:23 PM
One of the considerations is the building is not a solid structure until the walls are framed and sheathed (exterior) and the roof framed and sheathing applied. That is, I would not want to leave framed and sheathed walls standing for weeks or months without having the roof framed and sheathed. The roof ties the walls together to resist wind forces better. Better yet would be to have the weatherproof roofing installed as well and the weather barrier applied to the exterior sheathing.

That way if/when the winds blow or the rains come it wont matter so much.

The windows need not all be installed right off as long as you don't cut out the sheathing material to leave holes for a lengthy period. Cut out and install at least one exterior door for access and security.

Houses do stand partially completed for periods of inclement weather. Wrather does happen. It is good to limit the amount of time, IMO.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: Abbynrml on April 12, 2009, 04:40:17 PM
That was one of my greatest concerns. I did not want the wood to get wet even once.
So I decided on a pole frame or post and beam frame type. I now have the roof on and the materials never got wet. So now I can do the walls and floors all under a protected roof. Although your home is much larger than my shed, the same ideas would apply. If interested, my project is at
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6162.0
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on April 12, 2009, 04:40:49 PM
The main part of exposed framing that will deteriorate with water cycles is the subfloor. Standard OSB can puff up at the edges. Exterior rated plywood or Avantech OSB (http://huberwood.com/main.aspx?pagename=advantechfaqs&faqCategoryId=101) subflooring are a better choice. Some of the builders reporting here have used this material in some pretty nasty climates.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 12, 2009, 05:01:08 PM
I never mentioned anything about the subfloor because it was already down.

Maybe I should repeat briefly some thoughts on that for the benefit of others. The Advantec John mentioned is a superior type of OSB. It is highly water resistant, but not available everywhere.

Exterior grade plywood T&G subflooring can take some water exposure, as a rule. Ordinary OSB T&G does not like water exposure much at all.


My personal experience with OSB subflooring was poor, but not a disaster. The rain water caused some surface strands to become detached in several places. The edges stood up quite well for the most part, however that may be partly due to at least one of us being on site constantly. We were able to sweep the floor clear of water after every afternoon rainfall. Water puddles seldom sat for more than a couple hours tops. It rained every afternoon beginning the day before the sub floor was installed for a couple weeks straight.

You do not need to worry so much about short term exposure to rain and sun with the framing lumber. The winds may be another matter. I kept the supply pile dry by double tarping it. I never had any problems develop in the framing. Even the vertical OSB wall sheathing never showed any deterioration. The water runs of the walls and roof sheathing, but sits in puddles on the floor. Big difference.

Tarping the floor isn't worth the effort, IMO. We tried that and found water always makes its way through the smallest pinholes or whatever. Once under the tarp, the water will stay there until the flooring absorbs it. We have at least one member who had to rip out all the OSB subfloor material and replace it. He had it tarped over a winter.

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 12, 2009, 07:19:32 PM
As others have mentioned the killer for OSB is standing water on a horizontal surface.  It will act as a sponge.  Not a major factor on verticle siding in the summer.  Winter time when the snow would accumulate on the wall tops might be a different story.  My major push would be to raise the wall and put a roof over it first. Even 30# felt with button nails or purlin strips should suffice in the short term.  Then once it will shed water then you can concentrate on the 2nd story floor.  Rather than make the cut outs for the doors and windows you can build the walls and leave them completely covered with sheeting and later come back and cut out the sheeting to install them.  That way there will be no horizontal rain to enter through the openings onto the plywood. 

I personally used Advantex because I knew that mine would be exposed for a considerable amount of time. 3/4" T&G Ply will shed some on the short term but shouldn't be left very long.  If you are using metal for the roof you can makeshift a false roof above the floor and utilize the metal sheets to shed the water by elivating one side 6-12" pitching the water off until you can get started on the walls and roof.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 14, 2009, 07:43:42 PM
Electrical update: Husband (Victor) drove by the property on his way home this afternoon.  The electrical company has done their thing!  They took down the pole past where we are building and took the lines back.  It's official!  We don't have to move the house!  They also put in a breaker box and weatherhead and whatever else is needed for us to hook up.

This weekend we hope to frame 4 outside walls, but it's supposed to rain.  So we will see.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on April 14, 2009, 09:19:41 PM
Back in the last century, before advantech, we used mismixed oil based paints on plywood subfloors with good results.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 15, 2009, 09:23:34 PM
Mountain Don:  I was re-reviewing the building science page for hot humid climates.   ???  Can you tell me - when they recommend using the foam insulation boards, are they still using batt insulation?  Or are they just using the foam board?  I was thinking we would do both because that would boost the insulation levels just that much more. 

We are supposed to go this weekend to start framing the walls.  But it's supposed to rain :-\ so we are having a hard time deciding if we should proceed or wait til next weekend.  Guess we will see.

And what is the difference between PEX and old fashioned PVC?  My husband is worried about using PEX because he hasn't worked with it before.  Based on what I have seen, it doesn't look hard, in fact it looks like it might be easier.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 15, 2009, 10:18:47 PM
On those two designs they have not used any insulation in the framed walls. It's been a while since I read them but I believe the reason they do not use anything in the walls is to eliminate material that could/will accumulate moisture from the high humidity levels. I believe they seal and use the inside face of the foam panels as the vapor barrier. Like I said I'm not certain on that, but that's what I recall.

All your husband will have to do to work with PEX is buy a tool to install the fittings. pexsupply.com has three different systems, tools and all parts. They all work, although theoretically the Wirsbo-Uponer system has advantages. However there are 1000's of the others in service. Following directions is key with all. FWIW, I have the stainless steel band system, Glenn has Wirsbo and NM_Shooter has the copper band system. Actually I have some copper band stuff in my house because I forgot to bring my tool out of the mountains; I borrowed Shooter's tool for a minor repair/change. The plumber who did my re-pipe used the Wirsbo/Uponer. I think that may indicate some pro's consider it the best. I think it may be best, but didn't want to spring for the more expensive tool. However, if you consider the savings by doing it yourself instead of contracting it out, you could easily fit the Wirsbo tool into the budget. Perhaps, maybe.  ;D

Differences?

PVC comes in 10 or 20 foot lengths. It is rigid, cannot bend around corners. You have to glue each fitting; that's slower and messier.

REX comes in 100 and 300 foot rolls, even longer. It is hard walled but flexible to a point. You need a special tool to crimp the fittings. No couplers needed to run a long line, unlike PVC.

PVC can not be used for hot water, for that you's use CPVC. PEX is okay for hot. You can get PEX in white, blue and red. Very patriotic stuff.   ;D  You can use red for hot and blue for cold to assist in differentiating. Not a big deal in my book, but cool.

PEX installs much quicker. That's pretty much the main points.

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 15, 2009, 10:25:13 PM
Another PEX plus is there are easy to use distribution manifolds available. These can have a shut off for each line to bathrooms, laundry, etc. That makes it very easy down the road to shut off the line to a shower, for example, without the need to shut down the entire house.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 15, 2009, 11:05:34 PM
 [cool] Thanks!
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 17, 2009, 09:08:52 PM
Well - it's official - no walls this weekend.  :( Too much rain.  But we are going to go ahead and place the order so we can't spend the funds elsewhere.  Just set a delivery date of May 2.  Then we will go in and place the next order and hopefully have them all delivered at the same time.  Save on one delivery fee at least.

And I am going to go pick out the doors that I want.  I haven't been able to decide and that needs to be done before we start framing.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on April 19, 2009, 01:09:41 AM
We picked out the doors!!  And ordered the wood for the walls.  And after all that planning, it quit raining around noon and we could have worked! d*  Oh well.  In 2 weeks we will order all the rest of the wood for the roof and the loft floor and hopefully the sheathing.  And it's my daughter's birthday, so we have lots of family members coming in also (reckon I can get them to work  ;D )  Anyway - hoping to be somewhat dried-in in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 01, 2009, 02:31:30 PM
Ordered the rest of the wood for the interior walls and the floor joists for the upstairs loft.  Weather has changed to be cloudy with only a 20% chance of rain.  Looks like we should have lots of pictures after this weekend! 

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 03, 2009, 08:16:50 PM
Got the walls up!!!!!  We had several friends show up that helped out.  Of course, everybody knew a better way to do it, which led to some fustrations.  But overall it was a good weekend.  And my 9 year old daughter, Shyanne, helped move boards and actually did a lot of work for a still kinda little (gees, is she really that old now?) girl.

Anyway, back to the walls.  Wow they are tall.  We did 12 foot walls to allow for a kneewall upstairs. 

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0059-1.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0068-1.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0060-1.jpg)

Also got all the bottom interior walls and the loft floor joists done. 

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0067-1.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0070-1.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0071-1.jpg)

I am so sore.

And we still have enough wood left over to frame the upstairs.  So now all we need are the rafters and the ridge board and then we are on to sheathing and housewrap and insulation and ..... and .... and .....

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: shmily524 on May 04, 2009, 04:54:31 PM
Awesome! Thanks for sharing the pics!

I can't wait to get started on mine...
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 04, 2009, 10:30:03 PM
Question for the more experienced ones here - what's the best way to raise the roof?  The front and side walls are 12 foot tall.  The back wall is 8 foot.  I want a 12/12 pitch. 

Thanks.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 11, 2009, 07:04:26 PM
A few more pictures

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/Picture002.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/Picture003.jpg)

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/Picture007.jpg)
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: phalynx on May 11, 2009, 07:40:48 PM
We were able to raise our roof easier because we didn't use osb for decking on the roof.  We used purlins and tar paper.  We would put a strip of tar paper down the top to bottom of the roof and then hoist up a single sheet of tin using a pair of vice grips with the tension screw replaced with an eye-bolt.  It allowed us to tie a rope to it and pull each sheet up.  We would then secure the tin to the purlins and repeat.  If you are doing osb decking, you may end up doing what prohomesteader did.  He tied a rope to his truck, threw it over the house and pulled the sheet up to the top.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: considerations on May 11, 2009, 07:58:43 PM
Woohoo! Somebody's on a roll! 
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 11, 2009, 08:30:18 PM
Phalynx - I was refering to the rafters themselves, not worried yet about the stuff on top of the rafters.  I am trying to invision how to hold up the ridge board and then place the rafters.  The front half has an open cathedral ceiling and it ends up being 22 foot tall.  The back half I'm not so jittery about.  But that front half scares the bejesus out of me. :o
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: phalynx on May 11, 2009, 08:48:56 PM
The ridgeboard can be held up with tall stilts.  I built a couple that supported it until a few rafters were up.  You could put a few nails on either side of each rafter and pull that end up and over the ridgeboard.  I hope you have a really tall ladder.  It was one of the most scariest parts for me.  Someone must hold the ladder solid and always watch for a falling board.  Take your time, and you will get it done. 

Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on May 11, 2009, 10:11:14 PM
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/yokes001.jpg)
Hopefully this is clear enough to show what we call yokes, the stilts to hold the ridge. I make them 3 ply, a center of the correct height to support the ridge and a longer side on each side.Thay are plumbed, well braced, and nailed to the ridge. some diagonal braces across the inside of the rafters as you go keep the whole mess from toppling as it gets top heavy. We start from the loft end where it can usually be done from stepladders. I start with a pair of yokes and add another at the end of each new section of ridge. You can build temporary walls and deck them pretty quickly to get you within stepladder height if you don't have access to masons scaffold.

I wouldn't put a roof on that without a good bit more bracing. We stringline the walls and brace everything solid in both directions, diagonally along unsheathed walls as well as in and out. When your feet leave the ground its time to slow down and think safe.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 11, 2009, 10:33:55 PM
Thanks for the responses - makes it look/sound easier than I have been envisioning.  And we plan to put up about 4 cross braces to hold the width rigid and the upstairs flooring for a safe walking surface.  And there has been talk of builing a cat walk of sorts (like in the Alaska cabin) for the cathedral part.

One more question - the length is 42 foot (plus 1 foot overhangs on each end for 44 total).  What length ridge boards would you suggest.  I thought 2 of equal length.  My brother in law has this thing about it needing support and wants to do the cathedral from the front all the way so it rests on the upstairs walls, about 26 foot or so.  And then a shorter one for the remainder that's over the wall. 
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: phalynx on May 11, 2009, 10:49:28 PM
I think John should/would be the best to answer this.  You might post it on the plans questions if he doesn't make it to your thread soon.  I don't think it would be a problem unless you are not going to have a cross-tie between the rafters in the cathedral section.  Then I think some additional support may be needed.  I would think that I would want it to be a continuous piece over the cathedral section.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on May 17, 2009, 06:51:30 PM
A little bit more done.

The center wall upstairs
(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0122.jpg)

The ridge board
(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0118.jpg)

Antoher view - the boards across the top are temporary to install the rafters and such for the cathedral ceiling
(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0124.jpg)
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on October 28, 2009, 08:19:45 AM
Apologies to anyone who was trying to follow this thread.  We spent the summer in Lockhart in a camper and didn't get internet access up and running until just recently.  Over the summer, we were able to get all the sheathing up, the roof almost finished and most of the windows in. 

This is some of where we are at now:

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/Picture029.jpg)

We are wrapping the entire house in 1/2 foam board with a built in radiant barrier to assist with the passive solar properties.  We will be installing HardiPlank siding soon.  We still have a ways to go, but it's coming along.

I will load more pictures later when my computer quits acting up.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: poppy on October 28, 2009, 11:00:37 AM
Thanks for the update.

So the radiant barrier is facing out?  And you will have strapping between it and the HardiPlank?

The foam board with radiant barrier that I'm used to seeing is more shiny.  What brand are you using?
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on October 28, 2009, 02:29:18 PM
Yes the radiant barrier faces outwards.  And there will be strapping to provide that air gap that's necessary for the radiant barrier to be effective.  And it is shiny when the sun's out.  That picture was taken when a bad storm was gearing up.

The brand is Super Tuff-R by Dow. http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/insulation/supertuffr.htm (http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/insulation/supertuffr.htm)

We put 3/4 inch on the roof and 1/2 on the walls.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: poppy on October 28, 2009, 02:52:33 PM
Thanks for the quick reply and for confirming that the radiant barrier is facing out.  The "passive solar properties" comment was what got me confused.   ???

Typically when someone is talking about passive solar they mean for heat gain in a cold climate, and I didn't figure that you needed heat in Texas.  :D

I am familiar with the Dow product and have thought about using it under the floor; not sure yet.
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: texasgun on April 12, 2010, 10:09:13 AM
Any progress on the pictures would love to see your progress and pictures of the build up to the point you left off the first time.  [cool]
Title: Re: Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story
Post by: smcdaniel345 on July 08, 2010, 04:55:15 PM
Some recent pictures.  Sorry we don't have more.  (And haven't gotten farther)  But my wonderful husband has decided to proceed with the farm - so now we have 3 calves and a horse and 19 chickens.  Creates a lot of chores and slows down the rest of it.

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0771.jpg)

And we had a metal garage put in.

(https://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/victorlm/100_0770.jpg)