I guess since I have bought materials I should start a thread and stop lurking. I bought a piece of property back in 2010 and paid it off last May. It's just shy of 4.5 acres, and it's in an area that's zoned residential and is a residential neighborhood. The lot is fairly unique in that it provides a great deal of privacy the way it is shaped and situated. There is half acre that is 60 ft wide and 300 ft long and the 60 ft wide part is the road frontage. Then it opens up to a squarish trapezoid shaped 4 acre parcel (3 sides square 1 side slanted). It used to be completely wooded but the timber was sold in 1998 and when I bought the land in 2010 the second growth and briars etc were so thick that you couldn't walk through hardly any of the property. Enter the goats. Three years later and they have worked wonders. No more blackberry briars, much of the smaller second growth thinned out. Now I'm finally ready to build and have decided on a 12x16 both for financial reasons and personal ones. I guess you could say I'm one of those back to the land, modern hippy types. I want out of the rat race and want to live simply and eventually quit the day job. I'm 25 and single so there isn't any family to worry about, just critters.
Anywho, introduction out of the way. I plan on building the cabin on PT 6x6 skids placed up off the ground on concrete cap blocks dry stacked at least 2 courses high. Floor joists and rim joists will also be PT 2x6's and 3/4 Advantech on top of it. 2x6 walls ballooned to 10 ft for more headroom in the loft, 12/12 roof pitch with metal roof. R-21 insulation throughout as I think I can also do 2x6 rafters. Undecided on a half or full loft, leaning toward a full for more storage. Small bathroom (appx 3 ft x 7 ft) with a 36x36 shower and *simple* composting toilet, not anything fancy just your basic bucket. I plan on just getting it dried in with a front door and adding the windows to the framed out opening later (leaving osb until ready to install windows) to save money. I've priced out the lumber and all and have a ballpark figure for $1500-2000 to get it dried in maybe as high as $2500. Will not be hooking up to utilities, going to do rainwater catchment and possibly a hand driven well. A small solar system will eventually be in the works to power some lights, laptop, cell phone, and possibly a small refrigerator or freezer. Building codes are not really enforced in this area, and I'm also keeping it under the 200 sq ft mark to avoid having to pull a permit in the first place. With the no utilities they will not have any reason to think its anything other than a goat barn. I've also got good, longstanding relationships with all my neighbors so that won't be an issue either. My land is only a mile away from where my parents (and I) currently live so it makes it easy for me to maintain a physical address and have access to modern conveniences.
Pictures and a floor plan to come. Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to any advice, comments, constructive criticism, etc.
egf89,
Sounds like a good plan. SW VA is beautiful country! I live in Central VA and try to make it out to The Carter Family Fold every year or two. What part are you located in? Look forward to seeing your plans and progress!!
I don't want to get too specific with my location but the Fiddlers Convention and Flea Market are two major events around here!
Welcome neighbor. I don't have a dog in it and you can do as you please but do go carefully, I've seen several stopped or removed.
Happens in our neck of the woods often...People with a life long dream of building off grid buy a lot in the back country and put a lot of effort into an under-the-radar project. Local law enforcement, nosy neighbors, people who dealt with the powers that be and think you should, too, all can make things hard on you with a single phone call. Now with things like google maps with resolution down to the foot all it takes is a county tax collector sitting at a computer to find unpermitted structures. One guy had been living for years in a quonset hut before an ex girlfriend turned him in.
I'm a big proponent of being an owner/builder, and doing it above board. I started with a ride-along with the building inspectors. My structures are now finished (two on completely separate lots), paid for, and I don't have to be looking over my shoulder all the time
I appreciate the concern but 12x16 keeps it under the 200sqft limit for necessitating a permit in the first place, as well as the fact that it will be on skids vs a permanent foundation such as piers. Won't be using any public utilities so they've got no reason do any inspections for any of that either. Property is posted as private (as well as a few of glenn k's nifty signs), electric fence all the way around the perimeter, locked gate at the road and nothing is visible from the road either - not even my current 8x8 goat shed on skids. Fencing has been complete since 2011 as well as several cattle panel and tarp shelters that have be constructed/modified/moved and they show up on the county's GIS system satellite view - I've yet to see any tax increase. Goats currently run loose over the entire property and I've got a territorial stinky buck that anybody in their right mind wouldn't want to fight to get down to the build site anyways. If they do show up they can run a measuring tape to verify the outside dimensions, but other than that the inside isn't their business. I'm not shying code so that I can build this place unsafely, but because this is the lifestyle I want. I don't want the modern conveniences and I don't feel like I should be forced to have them as long as what I am doing isn't hurting anyone or damaging their property. Libertarian much? ;) I'll take my chances, but thanks!
FYI, Virginia Uniform State Building Code in PDF (http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/StateBuildingCodesandRegulations/PDFs/2012/Reg%20-%202012%20Draft%20USBC%20Base%20Document.pdf) form. See page 14 (section 108.2.2) Bold text is my emphasis.
" ....Exemptions from application for permit........ 2. One story detached accessory structures used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses or similar uses, provided the floor area does not exceed 200 square feet (18 m2) and the structures are not classified as a Group F-1 or H occupancy"
Group F is for factories and H is high hazard... LINKY (https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Virginia/Construction/PDFs/Chapter%203_Use%20and%20Occupancy%20Classification.pdf) ,section 306 and 307
Accessory building meaning a building on a property that has a main building that fully complies with zoning and building regulations.
That's the wording. I list it so you and anyone else can be aware of the exact wording of the applicable VA statute. Use the information as one sees fit...
We can probably find similar wording for any state in the country.
county surveyor where my build is
uses a plane !
simply does a fly by, takes photo's and reviews later in the office....so signs, fences and muddy tracks don't stop the man looking for his dues
Back to the structure- I don't see anything holding it down. You don't want to go all Wizard of Oz in a freak storm. In FL, they used to tie mobile homes down with earth augers that screw into the ground. They would be under the floor, so not visible.
I have read the VA code and am familiar with the accessory structure part of the 200 sqft exemption. Code also says that any building under 256 sqft does not have to be on a permanent foundation as long as the eve height does not exceed 10 ft. But, code adoption and enforcement is left up to the counties. And while my county has adopted the VA uniform building code they do not enforce it or even seem concerned with sheds/outbuildings/barns etc. Which barns and farm structures are exempt from needing a permit.
I have a neighbor at my property (once again good friends with all of them) who lives in a singlewide trailer. They needed to build a bedroom addition due to having her parents and 2 children with a 12 year age difference all living under the same roof (the youngest is getting big enough he needs to be out of mom and dads room). They went to pull a permit and the county told them that it was only showing their septic system as a 2 bdrm system (even tho the current trailer is a 3 bedroom and they had a 3 bdrm system put in). After talking with the building department (since public sewer isn't available) the building department told them they would do the permit as a "sunroom" even though they are fully aware that this is going to be a bedroom.
So, I do appreciate the concern/criticism as far as code/permits goes, but I'm going to take my chances on that aspect. I'm looking more for insight as to the actual structure itself. I want to build it structurally to "code" without some of the frivolous things such as how much space the toilet has to have around it, or how many outlets along a wall, or ceiling height, stair width etc as these things won't apply in my situation as this isn't a "house" in the traditional sense of the word. If I were building a traditional "house" of 1000 sq ft with all the traditional utilities (electricity, phone, public water, sewer, gas, etc) then yes I see the value of building codes. I see their value in public buildings, in multi family housing, or in cities where the houses are much closer together. But my shed/cabin will be roughly 500 ft from the closest neighbor so if my shanty/shack catches on fire there isn't going to be a fire exposure risk for my neighbors property. I believe that with the current "tiny house" and "off-grid" movements there is a significant need for building codes to be amended to address these issues in a positive way, rather than forcing alternative building methods into a cookie cutter mold. Look to Alaska - a great deal of homes/cabins there are "dry" with no running water. Composting toilets or outhouses are widely accepted there due to issues with being able to install septic systems in permafrost. When these alternative or "old-fashioned" methods are done properly with regard for others well being and property then there is no difference then what the government thinks is best for us in public sewer, water, septic systems, electricity.
I now feel like I've ranted, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but I AM familiar with the building code, I DO want to build a safe structure both for myself and my neighbors well being. I want it to be structurally sound, warm, safe, and to meet my basic needs without having to subscribe to the things that our culture and society has led most to believe that they HAVE to have in order to live comfortably. But pulling a permit and having inspections doesn't get me anything - they can do an inspection and give you a certificate of occupancy and the thing could burn down the next week and it's not their problem. Puling a permit will only have them trying to make me conform to their traditional standards, when this is clearly an alternative structure and lifestyle. I'm not trying to skirt taxes. I want to pay to have roads maintained and children to have a good primary education, etc.
With all that being said, I appreciate the concern and look forward to having your input as my build progresses. Haven't broken ground yet but then being a full-time student, part-time employee, running a home business, plus having about 30 critters to take care of on a daily basis keeps me pretty busy. Spring, summer, and fall it's a manic rush to get everything done, and the finally in winter I get a short break!
Quote from: MushCreek on November 24, 2014, 06:35:16 AM
Back to the structure- I don't see anything holding it down. You don't want to go all Wizard of Oz in a freak storm. In FL, they used to tie mobile homes down with earth augers that screw into the ground. They would be under the floor, so not visible.
I'm not sure if these will be necessary? I want to structure to be moveable should I ever decide to turn it into a guest cabin and move it out of the way and build a larger, permitted structure. Where the build site is located is down in a holler and the wind is always fairly minimal there. I can be there and not feel any breeze at all and then go up to the road (which is one of the highest points on the property and no trees and it can be gusting 10-15 mph or more. Large temperature different as well. This past week during this cold snap the ground at the road as remained frozen rock hard, while down at the build site it hasn't froze at all.
Time for pictures!
This picture is from 2011 I think, after ALOT of clearing had already been done. When I first bought the place you couldnt access it from the road because the briars and brambles were so thick, I don't have a picture of that tho, wish I did. This pic is looking toward the road
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_20110319_135200.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_20110319_135200.jpg.html)
This is what it looks like looking toward the road now (well about a month ago):
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_04571.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_04571.jpg.html)
This is looking from the build site toward the neighbors shed that is slightly visible in an earlier photo:
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_05121.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_05121.jpg.html)
This is the location where the cabin will be:
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_05111.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_05111.jpg.html)
And this is the future view from the front porch:
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_05131.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_05131.jpg.html)
I have property in hillsville/dugspur area. Carroll co. I asked the building inspector exactly what your wanting to do. He said he didnt have a problem with people building a camping building. but the problem for him was that they eventually added water and/ or electric with out getting permits.
He told me that he was serving tear down papers to two property owners that day. their neighbors turned them in.
Good luck.
Quote from: devildog on November 24, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
I have property in hillsville/dugspur area. Carroll co. I asked the building inspector exactly what your wanting to do. He said he didnt have a problem with people building a camping building. but the problem for him was that they eventually added water and/ or electric with out getting permits.
He told me that he was serving tear down papers to two property owners that day. their neighbors turned them in.
Good luck.
I hope not to run into either of these problems because I don't plan on adding water - rainwater catchment with a storage tank only, or hauling it in 5 gallon containers. I may do a small solar system, but that depends on how well I like no electricity - time will tell. Plus that would be a project several years in the future anyway.
Here is my floorplan. Small and simple but meets all of the basic needs. The line across the south side of the building will be the kitchen area with a sink in front of the window. The west wall with the 36" window will have a small table in front of it. The solid wall on the east side will have a sofa and across from it where the large window opening will be two small chairs. Bathroom will have a composting toilet in a bench and a 36x36 shower enclosure for use with a solar shower bag.
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_05151.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_05151.jpg.html)
Nothing to update as far as the cabin goes, but I did have a day off and went fishing. Caught my first ever trout - 21" rainbow! 1 inch away from state citation ;D
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/10622888_370140466500138_4851457762051764395_n.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/10622888_370140466500138_4851457762051764395_n.jpg.html)
Nice fish!
look forward to seeing your build. Sounds like a nice simple affordable place that will allow you great deal of freedom in the future.
Best wishes on your project. You've already got a great start on the fishing. :D
Nice tiny house! [cool] oh and w*
Well I've finally made a little bit of progress, and I know how you guys and gals love pics:
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_11861.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_11861.jpg.html)
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_11881.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_11881.jpg.html)
And part of what has been keeping me so busy since my last update:
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_11561.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_11561.jpg.html)
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_11301.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_11301.jpg.html)
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_11711.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_11711.jpg.html)
Beams are PT 6x6, floor joists are PT 2x6. The floor is cantilevered a foot off each side and with the thickness of the beams the actual unsupported span is 9ft, which according to the tables I looked at I should be within the capabilities of the wood. I've got simpson ties attaching each joist to the beams and as soon as I get another day without rain will have the joist hangers on as well, they are just nailed through the ends right now. Everything is square and level, so I'm happy so far. It's nice to finally be making progress instead of just dreaming and planning.
I raise Oberhasli goats, and had the set of twins (black and chamoisee) and then another chamoisee kid out of another doe. Nice to have that worry/stress gone since all the kids are here now and doing great.
Just stuff I noticed for whatever it's worth. If just single floor and roof I get a fail on the 6x6's in bending at code loads. A 2x6 nailed to one side works on my calc. Some screw in mobile home type anchors would be a good idea. Where the joists pass over the 6x6 girders they should be blocked. If you're using the accessory building section the max height of the top of the floor is 18" above grade, grade is usually taken out to at least 3' from the building for something like that. Joist hangers on the ends are unneccessary, the joist bear on the girder rather than hanging from the rim, it is providing a small amount of overturning resistance but the blocking over the beam (at the point of support) is providing the lions share. Trade the one chore for the other and restrain the buckling/rotation where the force is greatest with the blocking over the girder. The end nails in the rim are quite adequate to resist what develops from girder to the rim. The wall load is supported on the joists rather than the rim.
Thanks for the input. The highest pier is exactly 18" I only went that high to give myself room to work under the low end because I planned on insulating the floor after completing the building because I had read some horror stories on here about people who had insulated the floor first and then had to pull everything back out because it had gotten wet. Now I'm almost reconsidering and going ahead insulating it now. What would you guys recommend? Currently thinking 1/4" pt plywood across the bottom, then set the r-21 insulation in, vapor barrier, and 3/4" advantec on top. Or would I be better off with hardware cloth, rigid foam over top and then r-13 on top of that? Just curious about how to beat moisture issues in the floor. I would honestly rather have the building lower to the ground. If I insulated now I could jack each side up and pull off one or two layers of blocks.
Also will the 6x6 girders bend even though the unsupported span between the piers is only about 6ft? And thanks for the tip about blocking vs joist hangers.
A "bending" failure is really "extreme fiberstress in bending"... the fibers along the bottom edge of the 6x6's are in danger of tearing apart at design load, the loads the tables use. This is one of those short span beams that is not controlled by deflection but rather by the strength of the timber.
For myself, I'd use 7/16 osb on the underside of the joists and use unfaced insulation but there is something to be said for using nothing. Another thought is to use 7/16 over the joists, foam boards, then 3/4" subfloor.
Thanks for the explanation. I had not thought about foam boards as part of the subfloor system, but I compared costs and it would be way more expensive for me to get an equivalent r-value for foam board.
Will 2x6 rafters be sufficient? 12x12 pitch, 10ft sidewalls but will have a full loft across the entire length of the building. I'm having to special order insulation since they don't keep R-21 in stock. If I can use 2x6 for rafters then I will do everything in R-21.
Also, thinking ahead, when framing the loft floor what is the best way to do that? Joist hangers off the wall studs? Nailed to each stud (would a jack stud be necessary under each loft joist?), ledger board let into the wall studs with joist hangers? Or could I just nail a board the length of the wall studs and hang the loft joists from it without having to let it in? I'm looking for whats going to be most cost efficient as well as easiest for me with my minimal building experience.
Here's one chore I got accomplished yesterday since the build is on hiatus until I can get insulation:
(https://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p614/egf1989/IMG_12111.jpg) (https://s1158.photobucket.com/user/egf1989/media/IMG_12111.jpg.html)
First coat of primer/paint on, second coat will be on today. That was one of my lucky scores so far on my build. 5 gallon bucket of primer/paint, regularly close to $150, and I got it for $25. All because they spilled blue paint on the top of the bucket. I felt like I had won the lottery that day! Bees will be here in a month!
QuoteIf just single floor and roof I get a fail on the 6x6's in bending at code loads.
OK... 2 floors, what happened to the 200sf accessory building with a 10' eave height? The beams are way off. I think I'll just step back and admire.
Quote from: egf89 on April 18, 2015, 07:44:04 AM
First coat of primer/paint on, second coat will be on today...
Do you have a lot of experience keeping bees? My buddy has a few hives and insists each should be painted a different color to help the bees identify their homes from far. Not sure how true that is... maybe more of a family "wives tale". Still, it makes for interesting looking hives. He goes to the local paint stores and asks for whatever bad mixes were done recently. He has pink and orange, yellow and blue... funky looking but it works. He also had a lot of trouble with bears breaking into the hives and killing them off. They thought they had lost everything 2 years back, so they just piled the empty boxes on top of an old trailer that had back there. Last summer we went up and saw all kinds of action in the boxes... the hives came back and the bear could no longer reach them so that is their new home. Imagine all these bright colored boxes on top of an old rusted trailer... funny sight.
Don, what's the point of a 10ft eave height other than to allow more headroom in a loft? I did state loft in my original post. 6x6 were as big as I could find without having to have something specially milled. I'm trying to do this with all stock materials. I've seen 16x20 storage buildings advertised with storage lofts that are built on 6x6 skids. Math may not work out, but I'm gonna give it the real life test.
Adam, this will be my first experience with bees. I've also read that having them painted different colors helps them find the proper hive. But at the same time the commercial operations have several hives on a pallet all painted the same color and may have dozens of pallets in an orchard or crop field and the bees seems to find their hives ok. I just wanted to get them painted and ready to go. May go back and decorate some of the hive bodies whenever they need to be repainted. I shouldn't have any issues with bears. I have 6 strands of electric all the way around my place and it's done with alternating hot/ground wires. Packs quite a punch. I've accidentally gotten into it a few times trimming the fence line.
Quote from: egf89 on April 21, 2015, 07:38:01 PMI've seen 16x20 storage buildings advertised with storage lofts that are built on 6x6 skids. Math may not work out, but I'm gonna give it the real life test.
One question would be what are the approved foundation types for these sheds.
Also, remember you can always make different sizes using nails and adhesive.
QuoteI've seen 16x20 storage buildings advertised with storage lofts that are built on 6x6 skids.
Storage sheds and habitable buildings have different rules. What one can use for a general purpose shed often does not have the same standards.