12x16 Phase1

Abbynrml · January 23, 2009, 08:42:19 PM

Hi everyone.
I have been reading alot of the posts here and want you to know how helpful it has been.
There is alot of great ideas on the Country Plans site! I used many of them for my plans.

I am about to start building a small shed/cabin on my property in central Texas.
I have modified several designs. Then finally decided on my plan.

First, I based my plan on this design I got on the net:

I bought these plans on the net and used them also:

After many designs and changes I came up with Phase 1 plans. Phase 2 will include a shed roof porch and bump out....much later, lol.

My basic Phase 1 plans look like this:

I hope the plans look good to everyone.
Where I am building no permits or inspections are required. Only approval from a deed restriction office, which has already been given.

Tomorrow I buy and haul crushed rock for the post holes.....Wish me luck! lol

MountainDon · January 23, 2009, 08:57:06 PM

It's great to get a project going, isn't it!!

The only thing I question is with the 2x8 beams and floor joists. It appears you have the beams secured to the sides of the posts. I've built decks like that; no problems. However I wonder if that is the best way to build even a small cabin. Beams placed on top of the posts will be much stronger. On the side means everything is held up by the shear strength of the fasteners. Maybe it's just me but I prefer the beams on top of post method. You can build the beams up from 2x8's.

If you used 2x8 #2 or btr for floor joists you could dispense with the center beam. You could also move the 2 outside beams together a foot or so. John's Little House plans do that. It actually stiffens the floor and means you don't have to be quite as precise in locating the posts. If they are off a little it's okay as you square the floor up at the joist layer.

And being as conservative as I am, I'd use more posts down the sides, where the weight of the building will be mainly concentrated. But again, that may just be me.

Just some thoughts.

January 23, 2009, 10:23:01 PM

Hmmm, more to think about...Thanks Don. lol, I think anyways.
I could change the floor support posts and put them under the center beam, That would be easy.
And I thought about adding 1 post to each side wall, but when I do add the porch and bump out, I felt it might just be overkill. Still could do that tho. I'll keep thinking about it.
Oh yeah, I meant to add one more pic. The site. looking west:

MountainDon · January 23, 2009, 10:50:44 PM

Quote from: Abbynrml on January 23, 2009, 10:23:01 PM

And I thought about adding 1 post to each side wall, but when I do add the porch and bump out, I felt it might just be overkill. Still could do that tho. I'll keep thinking about it.

FYI, John's plans in the Little House series (10'x 14', 12'x 18' and 14'x 24') use a 4x8 beam down each side, inset a bit as I mentioned. Each beam is supported by 4x4 posts at 4 foot spacing. That may be overkill; John is conservative in his plan specs, but he's been designing for years.

So more posts to begin with would be to err on the side of conservative design.

Adding a porch or a bumpout won't decrease the loads the main posts will be carrying. They will need their own supports.

Are you planning on a loft?

How much land do you have? Looks like you have a lot of trees.

Abbynrml · January 23, 2009, 11:14:32 PM

Good points!
No loft is planned. Too narrow and only 4 ft high.
I bought just under 1 1/2 acres. When I build my house, in several years, I intend to buy the land next door. That would make it almost 3 acres. Plenty for me.
And yes there are alot of trees....Oaks, cedar, pecan, and tons of yaupon and vines.
The latter two will be removed, in time. lol
I dont believe it has ever been cleared. Man what a job that is.

January 24, 2009, 12:18:33 AM

I agree with Don. It will make things stay put better.

MountainDon · January 24, 2009, 12:42:57 AM

I know all about clearing land. We've spent countless hours clearing fallen tress, weeds and skinny trash trees. Some day we might be finished.

Abbynrml · January 24, 2009, 06:01:07 PM

My crushed rock is at the site. Actually about 30 ft. away.
$20, done deal, and can pick up a bit more if I need it later to finish.
The guy also had 13 tons of the stuff for $370, or milled asphalt for $270.
I need this for the driveway, but that can still wait.

Still looking at the plans and thinking. If I add one post to each side wall the math gets flakey. If I add 2 posts to each side, its totally simple. I am a simple man, lol. So, 2 more posts will be used. Putting the side wall posts at 4 ft O.C.
I dont want to notch the 4x4 posts for the beams. I could add a simple 2x4 block under the beams.
Any thoughts on this?

MountainDon · January 24, 2009, 06:04:31 PM

Quote from: Abbynrml on January 24, 2009, 06:01:07 PM

I dont want to notch the 4x4 posts for the beams. I could add a simple 2x4 block under the beams.
Any thoughts on this?

I don't follow that. With a 4x4 post you can sit a 4x8 or a built up beam from two - 2x8 on top of the post.

Looking for a picture that shows what I mean.

January 24, 2009, 06:14:53 PM

Courtesy of 'considerations'

n74tg · January 24, 2009, 06:19:17 PM

Abbynrml:
Are you the same Abbynrml that is on the Spad Forum? If so, it's a small world.

Abbynrml · January 24, 2009, 06:39:13 PM

No, not from another forum, just loved the movie Young Frankenstein, and use Abbynrml for my internet names, hehe

Abbynrml · January 24, 2009, 06:52:57 PM

I would have done like that if I balloon framed the shed. However I am using the pole barn type frame. The side wall posts go to the top plate. 12'
The end wall posts go to the ridge beams. 16'
I will use center floor supports that hold the beams, and add a single 2x8 to the top of the floor support post being under the joists. 2x4 blocks added to the posts under the beams. That should do the trick.

I should add that after the posts are set, top plates added, and floor joists and sub floor done. I can do the roof complete and enclose the walls last.
No exposed wall framing waiting on the roof to be done. I really like that idea, because it will take me awhile to get to that point.
I am doing everything by myself. Paid in full as I go.

MountainDon · January 24, 2009, 08:09:29 PM

Oooooooooooh! That part wasn't clear to me.

January 25, 2009, 09:00:02 AM

OK, now I have the final Phase 1 plans revised, probally not the last time either.
Hope these pics make it clear to everyone.
Any suggestions or comments are appreciated.

glenn kangiser · January 25, 2009, 04:00:01 PM

The 2x4 blocks will be worth very little that way. If held with 1/2 inch bolts, each bolt in each block is only good for about 450 lbs due to wood fiber stress. If you dont want to set your beams on top of the 4x then the 2x4 blocks shoud be foundation grade and go clear down to the bottom of the footing, however if you just put your beams in top of the piers as shown above, they the 2x4's would not be required at all.

Abbynrml · January 25, 2009, 06:26:46 PM

hmmm, ok. I didnt really think the 2x4 blocks would help much. Thanks for the input on it. I guess they are rather useless. Sure dont need that then.

Once again I'll state that it is based on a pole frame design, not home framing.
Correct me if I am wrong, but, the pole/posts actually support the whole structure. The floor only needs to support itself and the weight of any contents in the building.
With 5 supports on each side wall, 2 ridge posts, 3 center supports, headers, and girts to brace it all. Surely the beams would be fine.
If you dont think so, How would you support the floor in a pole frame design?

Redoverfarm · January 25, 2009, 06:34:12 PM

Notch the poles for a ledger board?

Abbynrml · January 25, 2009, 07:08:31 PM

I feel that with my skills, the notches would only weaken the posts.
A craftsman with better skills than mine could probally do that. However I dont think I should. lol, just being honest. I have limited woodworking skills.

Redoverfarm · January 25, 2009, 07:25:27 PM

If you are going to use a circular saw that is all it takes. Measure the offset of you saw plate to the blade. Set the depth of cut on your saw. Measure on either side of the actualy cut area to the offset meaurement. Clamp a board on that line. Keep the saw foot plate against the board on the offset line. Then just make multiple saw kerfs until the area you want to place your ledge is gone. You really only need to clamp to make the upper and lower cuts. The rest can be done freehand. Clean the area with a chisel and you are set. You should not loose any strength as the ledger will just replace the amount of material that was removed. If you have ever used a combination square you can actually use it to square your cuts allowing the saw foot to ride against the square.

This should be done after all your post are set and an accurate level is established on all your post. Don't attempt to pre-cut in the ledger and then set the post. Chances are that they will not come out level.

January 25, 2009, 08:29:26 PM

What Redoverfarm is real easy to do and would make the building much stronger. I would suggest getting some scrap pieces of wood and practicing cutting notches on it so you get the idea and see how easy it is. The easiest way I found to set the blade depth is to get lay the material on the bottom of the saw and set the blade even with it.

Taylor

Abbynrml · January 27, 2009, 07:11:13 PM

Good suggestions, I appreciate the input!
I'd like to describe some of my thoughts leading to this design.
First I picked the pole frame design because it would allow me to build the walls last, putting a roof on very early in the construction. The problem I encountered was adding a floor to it. I checked on having a slab poured for this, but at $1200-1800 it doubles the cost of the project. OUCH! Way over my budget.
Anyway, I looked at adding a wood floor to avoid the concrete costs, but that just set in a whole new set of problems. And I really appreciate everyones thoughts. Honestly I think that everyones advice will save me from making a terrible mistake.
Thank you!!!
I want to build this, but I dont want to just slap it together. I'd like it to last awhile.
Now I am going to rethink the slab...but without having it done.
I would like to still use the pole frame design, but inplace of the wood floor do a slab.
But.. a slab made from soil/cement. I have been reading up on it.
Seems its best done with a sandy soil and the soil at my site is very sandy. I have not found clay or rock yet.
The info I have found says that a mix of as little as 6/1 is best for clay. And mix of 16/1 with sand.
Couldn't I split the difference and go with a 10/1 sandy soil/portland cement mix?
I could set the posts first, do the roof, then do the slab and walls. Remember, its a pole frame, the slab will not be supporting the building.
Perhaps even cover the soil/cement floor with a plywood subfloor. I did read that the mixtures do tend to crack some. But here in Texas all the slabs crack sooner or later anyway, so what the heck, I think I could do a 6 inch slab for alot less, only cost would be some frame boards and the portland cement.
A 12x16x6 inch slab would take 160 80lb bags of concrete mix. I could instead buy 16-20 sacks of portland cement and use the soil on site. Oh, and rent a mixer.

MountainDon · January 27, 2009, 09:09:33 PM

Quote from: Abbynrml on January 27, 2009, 07:11:13 PM
A 12x16x6 inch slab would take 160 80lb bags of concrete mix.

That's the expensive DIY way to make concrete. I like the bagged mix for small projects like doinf a few footings.

For something like a slab or a driveway you can buy the Portland cement and either get sand and gravel separately or pre mixed. At least around here I can get a sand and gravel mix for pretty much the same cost as sand and gravel separate. Something to think about, although doing it in a small mixer is a lot of work for even a 12 x 16 slab.

Jens · January 27, 2009, 11:01:13 PM

run a google search for cob floors. sand, clay, and straw (might not have the straw in floors, I dont know). It might be just the ticket, all natural, and mostly free!

glenn kangiser · January 28, 2009, 09:13:31 AM

Use the floor from India that I use - jute landscape erosion control fabric -plunger piers- about 1/2 inch of cement - it's detailed in the Underground Cabin Update. I have to work today -rest of the week out of town or I'd locate it - perhaps others will.

What the heck - here's a couple

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.msg7536#msg7536

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=814.msg6001#msg6001

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2838.msg29853#msg29853

The erosion control netting works better than the chicken wire. Do it in two layers on the cement - I suggest adding the fibermesh available at the bigger ready mix companies about $6 or so.