Guard rail design.

[glenn-k]

I think he had to go to the Batroom, PEG.

[peg_688]

So there's a batroom in the batcave ?  I though bat's just did it ah natural ?  

[glenn-k]

We're modern bats.  3 batrooms.  One is nearly done.

[peg_688]

Cool !   Thanks for shifting this over Glenn     I like the new smileys  

[glenn-k]

John's shifting - I'm just checking things out

[peg_688]

Thanks John for shifting this over   ' Big pain in the butt that virus for you I bet .  In both time and $$$  .  Makes ya wonder why do people want to screw up someone elses  work   or     either one or both fit . Again Thanks , PEG

[peg_688]

 Here another idea for a deck guard rail .    This a slightly sloped deck that is a roof and a deck .  No stair system is used here.  And you'll see some details that I try to hold to for ease of const./ crew familiarity / constinstancy.

 

 

 

 

 

 Notice we try to do our bolts and screw placement in a pattern , consistant nature , I also like to put the Vertical grain side of the post and ballisters out to the public and the mixed grain side towards each other.  Some times what your not seeing is the" calm " of a project , how it flows so to say.  This might be sort of a masters class , but you all can be "Masters" once you know the details of it  
 So now you'll all be looking at stuff , the details . My wife sort of is ok with it , when we eat out go places , I give the review either while we eat or on the drive home , What did you see?? . And she sometimes points stuff out to me "Did you notice that? "  

 Just ideas and details for all to ponder   PEG

[glenn-k]

Reminds me of my old dead uncle, PEG.  He used to yell at me if I didn't line up the slots in the screws straight on plugs and light switches - vertical or horizontal but accurate and consistant..

Using the Skilsaw if I didn't line up on the line and push it through accurately and quickly as the saw would safely take it, he'd yell -You saw like an old woman - what are you doing - think we got all day.  (Expletives removed for clarity- he was fun though -- he was just kidding when he'd chew us out- kind of). :-/

[peg_688]

Reminds me of my old dead uncle, PEG.  He used to yell at me if I didn't line up the slots in the screws straight on plugs and light switches - vertical or horizontal but accurate and consistant..

 Well you old dead uncle jobs looked clean and slick , cuz stuff lined up , was consistant .  Like I said it's sort of a masters class , I do try to learn something everyday , to get better to a clearer , nicer job , Might be just me , but my boss likes it , my clients like my details , thought process . Anyone can do it willy nilly , it shows if you look , you might not "Know " why but it just looks busy , willy , nilly.  Folks can do what they want , but some might want to do it a bit nicers , not better , as one over the other is ok , it's just nicer/ cleaner ,  8-). Or  maybe I'm  anal  but that's not going to change  ;)PEG

[peg_688]

Boy this post was burried down deep in the bowels of C/P's  

 Here's a few more details / how to's / ideas .  Most;y same old stuff , just a few different ways around it .

 Newel posts at the bottom of stairs can be floppy / loose , the rebar pin driven into the landing and a lag bolt , or two if theres room can stiffen that up ,

 


 Drill a hole up into the post bottom , then use a block to drive the post down onto the rebar, I bored the hole up into the post then cut off a 1/4"  section and used that cut off to align the hole for the rebar , so it was a template of sorts .

 Hand railing is set at 35 1/2" plumb up from the nose of the treads , guard rail is set at , no less than 36" at it's lowest point . Also note that the railing is a "gripable " railing , no greater than 1 1/2" in cross section , wide / flat 2 bys do not make a good railing  







I use thru bolts with nuts and washers where I can , makes adjustments easier , and 1/2 " lag screws where there is more meat / dbl . joists for the lag to grab .

 This deck had 2 x6 joist so I let the post extend below a bit the corner posts are fun the dap out / recess in as the cuts do not run thru so a bit so hand chisel work is required , or maybe a router and a jig , I did these by hand as there where only a couple of three to do.


 

 Glenn's "chain saw " methord might not work here

Now I'll do the post and edit option , before I hit the wrong buttom or whistles  

[peg_688]

More ,

 












So what ya think?

[peg_688]

Details :





 




 So where's that chainsaw Glenn  :'(


 


 

[peg_688]

Another thing I'll point out is the way I attach the guard rail cap , from underneath.

 

 

The 2x2's balasters / pickets are nailed to a flat 1x2 first, then a 1x3 is nailed on the INSIDE , and  a 1x2 is nailed on the OUTSIDE , as you can see this DIDN"T happen as I DREW IT UP  , on paper and explained the WHY we're doing it this way  , but that being that, really it doesn't bother me , MUCH any more .

As you can see this section is not straight , the guard rail is so as we attached the two componets the section was pulled straight , and screwed to the rail.

 
 The point is no fasteners are exposed on top , so we assemble it all sand it with 100 grit with the random orbit sander , run the router around it the detail sand for effect.

[glenn-k]

Whew -- there you are PEG.  Thought I lost you for a minute there.

The chainsaw method works everywhere.  Sure doesn't look as nice as yours though.  It's for non-discriminating people like me.  

I knew I was going to get in trouble for the flat 2x4 hand rail when I did it but for some reason I did it anyway.  I needed a place to set my beer. :-/

Have you been working in the rain again, PEG?  Looks kinda wet.

[peg_688]

Nothing wrong with flat guard rail , hand rails another thing , if you , or anyone , can't grab it when they slip it ain't much good fer nuttin

 BTW how can you set a beer can on a handrailing ?? Wouldn't the slope make it slide??

 Whats rain ? It hardly ever rains here

[glenn-k]

I had to set my beer on the return at the landing.  

Suns shining here -- so nice.

[MountainDon]

Wow! First time looking at this thread.... some very nice work there PEG.

[peg_688]

Thanks , I had to search all my 900 some posts  to find it , there's a lot of great stuff on this forum and we go over and over the same things , or so it seems , the search thinkie helps some but it also miss's a lot

It was good review of old posts thought Some good , some not so good   most of those in misc unrelated to building section  

[Okie_Bob]

Peg and Glenn, I've been following this post a long time now but, didn't have anything to offer in way of a comment so just lurked on the sideline!
Peg, you do some beautiful work and if you lived around here, I'd put you to work anytime...well as long as you worked for beer!!!! Love everything you've shown us and told us, great tips from a real pro.
I can't show pics because I don't know how, have some, just don't know how to show them.
As some of you know I'm building my retirement home on a lake in East Tx. I built a covered deck that is 12' wide across the entire front of the house and 8' wide down both sides. At the lake end it is elevated about 6'.
I looked and looked for a way to build guard rails that wouldn't detract from my lake view. On the old deck that was here when I bought this place and before I tore it all down and started from scratch, I use to complain because when sitting on the deck and trying to look out at the lake, there was always the dang guard rails in the way of my view.
So, I came up with a design that really works well for me. I have 4 X 4 pressure treated posts roughly 8' apart all around the deck as supports for the overhanging roof. I got some 1/ 1/2" pipe and painted it the same color as my metal roof...hunter green. I rigged a way to attach the pipe to the posts this turns out to be very secure and not too noticable. Then I bought 3/16 7 strand galvanized cable. I ran the cable at 4" intervals under the pipe and around the deck. I've actually had people stop their cars drivig down the road and come look and ask questions. It looks really great and works great too. I put turnbuckles in each section and a good thing I did. I had a buy helping me do some caulking and he was standing on the cables. They did stretch a bit but, I simply tightened them up with the turnbuckles. This should be a no-maintainence rail system, should meet code and isn't too expensive. I bought all the cable stuff off the internet.
Anyway, a different way to do the job!
Okie Bob

[peg_688]

You know Bob when I did drink beer you couldn't have afforded me as there was never enought. But that is a common , ah , issue folks wantin ta pay a carpenter way to little for way to much.  

 The cable rail system business ,  around here , is pretty slow , mostly done with stainless steel cable and hardware , not many will spring for the bucks it cost.

The latest rage is metal post and rail with tempered glass panels , part of the problem with wood rail systems is the code requiring the 4" space , big brother protecting us from ourself   The 36" to 42" (comercial guard rail height 42" )  does put the guard rail right in the "view window" when people sit down , I can tell you I have many times told the client we have no choice , unless we lower the deck to under 30" above grade , most would like the guard rail about 30" in height, nice to prop the feet up on while sitting , but low enought the easlly see over.   Of course the same client would love to sue my arse back into the stoneage if say a grandchild fell over said railing  


I've been reading a bit about Sam Maloof of late,  a woodworker from Ca. , his work has made him a lot of $$ and he does some nice work.   His house is on a national register in Ca. and they moved his house so a highway could be built, his stair way , a spiral one , is no where near code but it is beautiful , mostly because it's not a cluttered mass of vertical 2x2's every 4"  

 My febble atempts at  a better / nicer looking   guard rail are some what stiffled by having to meet [highlight]more than  [/highlight] my clients needs for a safe railing , and my desire to create something that looks good. By that over reaching , jack booted thug with the code book    

 And ya know lurking is bad for ya , Glenn and I , well most of us, I think  :-/,  like a little feed back on these post , I spite of not making enought $$$$ and every friend locally wantin me to just stop by and lend a [highlight]free [/highlight]hand   For some  odd reason , MTL , the chance some one will say something nice   ,  I don't mind giving away the why , how , and so much more here  :-/ :'( Maybe because I don't have to have my nail bags on to do it , so it doesn't seem like work  :-/

 Merry Christmas , PEG


Edited to add heres a PDF file of Sam's work the stair I talked about is on about page 3 or 4 , I figger this way only those who choose to look can , and I really can't C&P the PDF , don't know how to do it


 http://www.fairplex.com/fp/Calendar/SpecialEvents/SamMaloof/finalmaloof.pdf

[glenn-k]

Digital pictures are easy to add, Bob.  You can be displaying beautiful pictures of your work here just like PEG's in just a short time.

Just give it a try.  Start a free account at Photobucket. That way you can store them on their computer even if yours is off.  That makes them always available.  Here is Photobucket - https://s35.photobucket.com

After that you push the upload images button.  Browse to the place on your computer where you store your pictures and find the one you want and click the open button.  You don't even have to rename it.  It will take a few minutes to upload depending on your computer, size and connection.  When done there are 3 tags at the bottom.  Copy the bottom one and paste it here when you write your reply.  That's it.

More info available here.  http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1115032671

[Okie_Bob]

Wow, Peg, great looking spiral staircase..I might have used something like that had I known about it!

As has happened to me in the past, I thought I had an original design with my cable guard rail system....never had seen such before. Not the fist time this has happened to me and probably not the last..

Actually considered going with stainless steel cable but, as you said, couldn't see going wth the extra cost. Galvanized should outlast me! And you are correct about the 30" height being perfect for sitting back and proping my feet up on the rail.


Guess you are also correct about my lurking around in here! I do appreciate everyones opinions and help they give and often don't take the minute it takes to say thank you!
I promise to try to do better hence forth!!!

Now about that beer......
OKie Bob
PS: I did send Glenn a couple of pics of my cable design...maybe he will share them with the board.

[glenn-k]

You want me to do it, Bob, or do you want to give it a try?

You would be able to do it in about 20 minutes.  

[glenn-k]

Next time would take you less than 5 minutes - you'd already be a pro--  almost as good as PEG.

[MountainDon]

Thanks for the link to the Sam Maloof stuff.

I just want to mention two things that really grabbed my attention on PEG's handrails; 1 - no fasteners showing in the rails/guards and 2 - the biscuit joined corners.

Merry Christmas all!! Gotta go bake a couple pies for tommorrow (I'm cook as well).