Who carries more weight?? A PE or a building inspector?
Quote from: rakuz66 on March 03, 2008, 09:34:45 PM
Who carries more weight?? A PE or a building inspector?
Depends on whos office your in. Code is code even if a PE said it would work. Is this what your asking? More info needed to answer that question. Mark
Building Dept. large ones may have there own in house PE , think big cities. So select building dept.s may be able to "over rule" a outside PE.
In most cases that I've dealt with the PE's drawings are excepted as written.
So "It depends" like Willy sez.
That's pretty much it Willy. So, even if a PE signs off and stamps, it doesn't mean a Bldg Inspector will pass it? Seems like the PE would have more knowledge of the situation, but I guess the Building Inspector is there to enforce code, not debate engineering principles.
Hey guys, glad your on. The only reason I ask is that I'm wondering if I should contact the local Bldg Official to review my camp roof repairs even though I have a PE signed letter??
Quote from: rakuz66 on March 03, 2008, 10:23:38 PM
Hey guys, glad your on. The only reason I ask is that I'm wondering if I should contact the local Bldg Official to review my camp roof repairs even though I have a PE signed letter??
The building dept in that case will except your PE's drawings , they will want to inspect your work to insure you followed the draws / spec's , you do have a permit , right?
Umm,,, ahhhh......no permit. It's in the middle of nowhere. I am all new to this camp thing and in my haste I bought a camp that had cut trusses d*, realized I needed to repair them quick and began the work. I then called a PE, another d*, should have called them sooner, and they came out checked my work and gave me a signed/stamped letter stating it's structurally sound. "Modified trusses are well braced/repaired. Rafters are adequate for span, cross ties are sufficient to prevent wall spread, footings transfer loads to soil" That sort of thing. Just curious as to whether I should even call a Bldg Inspector???
At this point my own personal feelings are to leave well enough alone regarding the inspector. You know the roof won't fall in on you. So enjoy it and worry about getting the required permits etc on the next major upgrade BEFORE you lift a hammer.
OMMV
What Don Said! [cool]
Quote from: rakuz66 on March 04, 2008, 09:19:37 AM
Umm,,, ahhhh......no permit. It's in the middle of nowhere. I am all new to this camp thing and in my haste I bought a camp that had cut trusses d*, realized I needed to repair them quick and began the work. I then called a PE, another d*, should have called them sooner, and they came out checked my work and gave me a signed/stamped letter stating it's structurally sound. "Modified trusses are well braced/repaired. Rafters are adequate for span, cross ties are sufficient to prevent wall spread, footings transfer loads to soil" That sort of thing. Just curious as to whether I should even call a Bldg Inspector???
At this point, as Don said, I would assume it wasn't required. Obviously they would have stopped and asked if it was. ::)
You are probably one of the fortunates in an area where permits don't apply. At any rate, if it was me, I would forget to ask, play stupid if it ever came up and keep my engineered plans as backup. You have complied with the safety part. The assessor will take care of the main reason permits are issued, if you ever allow him on your property. (You don't have to).
Thanks guys. The PE actaully just wrote me up a letter on their letterhead with all the info as the job was complete when they inspected it. I guess that would suffice for any plans, drawings, etc. It is signed and stamped. My buddy told me they would never-ever sign and stamp something that could come back to bite them in the a-- one day, therefore let it go, it's safe. Sorry to bug all of you with this, but I am a bit of a obsessive-compulsive nut job. As a few of you may have already figured out!!!
It was VERY frustrating to realize I bought a camp with cut trusses, my mistake, live and learn. Guess I was too caught up in the moment. It was even more frustrating trying to figure out how to repair them. Now, I realize I took it too fast, from buying it to working on it. Guess I was too excited and worried about the roof to stop and think it over. I should have contacted a PE in the beginning for advice. Anyway, thanks for all the help and advice. I agree , leave it alone at this point. No Bldg Inspector.
That's it -- the engineer will cover himself, so it's safe.
No Bldg Inspector.
GOOD MOVE!
Remember, the inspector is a minion of the Forces of Darkness. They are very difficult to fight. You can drive an ungraded wall stud through their heart or shoot them with a silver nail.......but it's better to avoid them altogether. :)
May The Force be with you, Peter.
One of my favorite mottos is that "I would rather beg for forgiveness than ask for permission." Let sleeping dog's lie IMHO.
I take it you guys have a bad taste for Building Inspectors >:(
Some are OK.
Houses have been built by Master Craftsmen for hundreds to thousands of years without the inspectors. Millions of them are still standing. (The houses -- not old dead inspectors).
With the desire to insure the taxation of every improvement made by every individual on their own private property came the so called building and safety department. The first purpose is to get you separated from your money to fund the bureaucracy and get you onto the tax rolls at the county assessors office.
If you don't believe that, see how far your good looks will get you on plan check--- nope -- first and most important is to pull out that checkbook.
After plan check they will extort the rest of the money from you before you raise a finger toward construction (and will turn you over to the school system, for them to extract their few pounds of flesh), then when you have done something, the right hand of god will be sent to pretend to check your work. (Or you may get a decent guy who shows up and peruses your work a little and then signs off the appropriate lines).
No matter --- you have paid your fees, and THEY DO NOT GUARANTEE ONE THING FOR YOUR MONEY-- ALL LIABILITY ISSUES ARE REFERRED TO AN ENGINEER OR TESTING AGENCY AT YOUR EXPENSE. If I am wrong please let me know. Please feel free to post a copy of your written guarantee here to prove me wrong when you get it.
Note that many buildings that are fully engineered and inspected fail just as a few of the old ones may. Most failure is due to lack of maintenance, not poor construction.
Note that I agree that complex structures require engineers, but very few of the simple houses most individuals would build for basic shelter for their families should require more than the basic knowledge available from stick framing publications, carpentry books and/or the knowledge of a master craftsman.
I just could not help myself. Last year I had a new hot water heater installed. One of the charges from Lowe's was for a county inspector to come out and check to make sure it was installed correctly. So after the installer finished I patiently waited for two weeks for someone to come and inspect his work. Then I called the planning office and asked where he was, they told me they don't really have to inspect it because the fellow was a registered contractor. (I thought that all installers were registered with the county)
I asked if that was the case why was I charged for thier inspector to come out. To shorten this a little I said that either I get inspected or I get a refund. (I checked with a laywer friend who told me to request one) I made sure when the inspector came that I recieved the signed "job card" when he was through. I hate to be taken. I keep all of the paperwork on thie house together so if anyone asks when was this done I can prove it.
All joking aside, as Glenn said, some aren't so bad. The one at the farm (They only have one) was a very good builder and a darn likable fellow. He and I get along very well but we have a mutually agreed "Don't ask, Don't tell"...policy!
After all, I only build Ag buildings that are exempt :)
Quote from: peternap on March 09, 2008, 08:37:38 PM
All joking aside, as Glenn said, some aren't so bad. The one at the farm (They only have one) was a very good builder and a darn likable fellow. He and I get along very well but we have a mutually agreed "Don't ask, Don't tell"...policy!
After all, I only build Ag buildings that are exempt :)
That is all I also build now on my place. AG Buildings are nice $20.00 permit and no inspections. I still build them right and 99% to code if I can. Mark
But there are people who do dumbass things that are outright dangerous. They ought to be inspected with a fine toothed comb. They give everybody else a bad name.
Neighbor back home across the street from me, put a wood burning stove in his workshop, about 8 inches from the drywall wall. Ok, he protected the wall with a loose piece of galvanized metal. ::) He did burn the shop down and almost took out his own house, and caused some damage to the neighbors fence.
Same guy... rebuilt the workshop. City exacted its fee for permit/inspections. Once all was completed and approved he installed a gas wall heater. He split the gas water heater stub (in one corner of the adjacent house garage) and ran copper tubing buried a few inches to the new free standing garage some 7 -8 feet away. He got turned in by someone for that. 8)
Then there was my neighbor here who did some remodeling. He built a big room off the back with pool change room, wet bar, big hot tub, bathroom with shower, etc. Real nice for the most part. He installed a small gas water heater to service that end of the house. He vented it into the attic. Inspector nabbed him on that. He didn't want to cut a hole in his nice new roof.
So to my mind there is a place for inspections. But it's next door. I have forgotten to get plans approved, permits paid for, and very well might do so again. :o
Granted -- there are some that need it.
Quote from: MountainDon on March 09, 2008, 09:57:28 PM
But there are people who do dumbass things that are outright dangerous. They ought to be inspected with a fine toothed comb. They give everybody else a bad name.
Neighbor back home across the street from me, put a wood burning stove in his workshop, about 8 inches from the drywall wall. Ok, he protected the wall with a loose piece of galvanized metal. ::) He did burn the shop down and almost took out his own house, and caused some damage to the neighbors fence.
Same guy... rebuilt the workshop. City exacted its fee for permit/inspections. Once all was completed and approved he installed a gas wall heater. He split the gas water heater stub (in one corner of the adjacent house garage) and ran copper tubing buried a few inches to the new free standing garage some 7 -8 feet away. He got turned in by someone for that. 8)
Then there was my neighbor here who did some remodeling. He built a big room off the back with pool change room, wet bar, big hot tub, bathroom with shower, etc. Real nice for the most part. He installed a small gas water heater to service that end of the house. He vented it into the attic. Inspector nabbed him on that. He didn't want to cut a hole in his nice new roof.
So to my mind there is a place for inspections. But it's next door. I have forgotten to get plans approved, permits paid for, and very well might do so again. :o
I agree with everything you said. I was mad at the planning department that insisted I get a "qualified" installer and then was not going to inspect that it was up to code. (pipe routing code) had changed since I bought the brand new house 20 years ago. It now needed a blow off routed to the outside (Water heater in the garage). I just wanted my $25 dollars worth of service from the county since they insisted I buy the county's "You have to have this" inspection before sing off.
Yep... that fee sounded like it was simply a profit maker for them.