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Yep that's right a lot of the world knows that America is becoming a nation of fearful, idiots herded around like sheep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeRD26hDDw

In all honesty, the Japanese shouldn't laugh.  Kamikaze much?

But, yes, I agree.  Especially about the ones who "believe in freedom".  Funny thing is, they're always in lockstep with government authority first.

We love freedom of religion.  Show us your gay marriage license.

We love freedom of the press.  Give us your camera or Your criticism of America makes you unpatriotic.

I come from a military family.  I've never understood their hatred of government.  Don't they realize they (the military) are a branch of government? 

Nah, we're not "becoming" a nation of idiots, half of us are there.

Our TSA is a disgrace and I will not allow them the opportunity to run their perverted lustful fingers over my dashing perfect body....

Bite me, TSA.... [waiting]

This was all to keep the sheeple scared after the Bush administration false flag attack assistance on the WTC.  I will not pretend that they are legitimate and will boycott travel until they are gone.

Good illustration of an all too true USA disgrace, Japan.  Thanks for portraying the disgusting monster they have created.

I will not help cover for our corrupt government by offering them any legitimacy. 

Our politicians are profiting from the scanner sales.  Follow the money.

http://www.rense.com/general89/chert.htm 

"Chertoff" translates to "Son of the devil" I have read.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 14, 2010, 01:27:00 AMI will not pretend that they are legitimate and will boycott travel until they are gone.

Ouch!  That'll teach 'em.

They are feeling the pain right now.... [waiting]

Glenn has it right.  Don't fly. 

Air travel is a privilege, not a right.  If someone does not like the idea of the whole body scanners or the ridiculous pat down, then don't fly. 

I have a friend who has a pacemaker implanted, and he has to suffer the hand search every single time.  He has to fly quite a bit for work, and is just resigned to the process. 

We've got shoe bombers, underwear bombers, and folks who are now having explosives implanted into their bodies.  How we'll figure that one out, I don't know. 

Sad thing is that none of these procedures really make us safe against someone determined and knowledgeable. 

Quote from: Pox Eclipse on November 14, 2010, 10:29:04 AM

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 14, 2010, 01:27:00 AMI will not pretend that they are legitimate and will boycott travel until they are gone.

Ouch!  That'll teach 'em.

According to the airline industry they're damned concerned that the new body searches are costing them business. You keep flying though POX.

Glenn...here's a You Tube video of a man that said no, turned the video function on his phone on and sent it through the Xray machine.

http://johnnyedge.blogspot.com/2010/11/these-events-took-place-roughly-between.html

I wonder how people will react when these things are set up at every public building? Nekid body scanners at the football games, at the concerts, train stations, subways...where does it stop? I'll be damned if I'll get on a plane with this barbaric treatment forced on everyone who flies.

Thx guys.  Glad I'm not the only one refusing the continuing fake security from our governments false flag operations coverup.

Al CIAda is a US created entity.

http://cgiproxy6.appspot.com/u?purl=bG10aC5kZW5pYXJ0LXN1LXNtcmlmbm9jLW5vdG5pbGMteXJhbGxpaC8xMS8wMTAyL21vYy50b3BzZ29sYi5uYWhrLXJpc2FuLy86cHR0aA%3D%3D


"Ms. Clinton accepted that the U.S. had created certain radical outfits and supported terrorists like Osama bin Laden to fight against the erstwhile Soviet Union, but that backing has boomeranged.

"Part of what we are fighting against right now, the United States created. We created the Mujahidin force against the Soviet Union (in Afghanistan). We trained them, we equipped them, we funded them, including somebody named Osama bin Laden. And it didn't work out so well for us," she said."

Know what we really need? 

A scanner that potential presidents walk through to prove their place of birth.

From what Larry S. says, BO would opt for the pat down.... [waiting]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/12/travel.screening/index.html?hpt=T1

More and more people refusing.

Nov 24th - National Opt Out Day...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/tsa-opt-out-day-now-with-a-superfantastic-new-twist/66545/

Hey POX...looks like Glenn isn't the only person who won't fly. You think it might hurt business a little? heh

http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/

Stepped-up security screening at airports in the wake of foiled terrorism plots has provoked an outcry from airline pilots and travelers, including parents of children who say they are too intrusive.

With the busiest holiday travel season nearing, fliers face long security lines and new rigorous patdown checks aimed at discovering hidden explosives. As a result, some travelers are questioning whether to fly at all.

Are you less likely to fly because of stepped-up security procedures such as full-body scans and patdowns?

   * Yes - I will make alternate travel plans to avoid intrusive security scans and patdowns (96%, 56,207 Votes)
   * No - It is a necessary procedure to ensure terror plots are thwarted (2%, 1,443 Votes)
   * Undecided (2%, 803 Votes

Hmmm...
Real People=96%
POX People=2%
???

The proof will be after the holiday.

I believe our government is going about this security all the wrong way. We continue to look for bad "stuff" noit bad people. If we would spend more time doing the unthinkable... that is profiling people as they entered the airport, etc. it would do a lot more good. Borrowing a leaf from the anti-terror threat book that the Israelis have developed would help more than a bunch of expensive machines and invading everyone's body.

The thing we need to remember here is that the crying wolf to scare the sheeple has all been exposed as propaganda or at the very least very questionable fake plots contrived by the US propaganda machine along with assistance from allies in other countries.

This evidence of fake scares by gov. takes away all of their credibility and more and more people are getting onto their game.  

Actual credible terrorists stopped by the invasive perverted screenings = 0%

Mothers milk - water confiscated- fake water bombs - etc. that are really threats proven to be likely contrived= 100%

Brainwashing attempts by scare tactics to keep the sheeple scared that have to many ridiculous elements of evidence saying they are contrived by gov and associates.... 100%

Just more games to get approval for the looting and murderous foreign policies of our military industrial world banker complex.

No Don

we are emulating the Israeli procedures


Israelis are experts at humilating goyim

That is what this is about, reducing people's sense of decency and making them submit to degrading procedures

I have to fly as part of my job. But where I used to fly to places like MSP or St Louis, I now drive 6.5 hours each way.

I will not submit to this degrading, humiliating hobson's choice ---  walk naked and be photographed or get sexually assaulted.

btw the 'underwear bomber' did go through the back scatter x-ray machines at Schiphol

and they obviously did not catch him

Here's a picture of a TSA computer screen saver

(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/11/500x_tsa-humor-2.jpg)

here it is full size so you can appreciate the 'humor'

(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/11/500x_tsa-humor-book.jpg)


http://gizmodo.com/5688087/the-tsas-sense-of-humor-makes-me-nervous


the whole thing is a dirty joke and I refuse to participate

Not only emulating Israel... this outrage is implemented by dual Israeli-US citizens in our government.

As mentioned above Chertoff derives his major income from this scourge on the American public.  It is obvious that his allegiance ios not to the US and it's citizens.

http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html

Actually air travel is a contract right between the ticket holder and the airline. The Feds are interfering with that contract, assuming that they are a third party to it.


Don........the scanners, and TSA are not about safety. It's about conditioning the American people to accept a Police State.


Proud member of the Non-Flier club.


I'm with ya Windpower......the faster we cut off the zionist nation of Israel the better off America will be.

Quit yer bitchin' already.  We were conditioned long ago to start accepting government intrusion.

If you don't like the "security" requirements, don't fly.  Or buy your own airplane.  Problem solved. 

I'm also amazed at how easily the anti-Semites can be worked into a froth. 

Apparently some were more conditioned than others, while many either accepted part of it only to reject it later, or neither accepted the conditioning in the fist place.

Like a middle class American is going to be able to buy a personal airplane in this economy. But as I said earlier... I'm a proud member of the Non-Flier Club.

Actually Frank, I'm somewhat of a libertarian therefore I do not attack groups of people as a whole, either by nationality, religion, etc. Referring to the Nation of Israel (it's government) as zionist does not mean equating the Israeli people as the same. Though many support it's actions. I'm sorry you can not see the difference between the two. Must have something to do with the social conditioning thing  ::) Also you accusing me of being a anti-semite reflects the same conditioning.

Some people such as myself do not have a choice of whether to fly or not if we want to stay employed at our current job.

in today's job climate resigning is not an option.

BTW I do have my own plane. At a Michigan class D airport my wife and I needed to use the bathrooms at a gas stop. This was 2007.

The man fueling the 170 said to us "no problem just punch in 2 - 7 - 6 - 8 at the door lock. You do not have to go through security just punch in the same code to come back."

And we did walk right by all the passengers x-raying their carry ons and walking through the metal detectors and we by-passed all that and  just walked through the security door back to the ramp. TSA took no notice us at all

For those with children or wives....

Would you allow your daughter to be fondled by the TSA enhanced grope procedure  or would you prefer her to be photographed naked ?


Read what this mother has to say about the sexual assault she experienced

(Mods: sorry if this is too graphic -- if you delete it I understand)


http://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html

"She instructed me, "Spread your feet apart and hold your arms out to the side." I obliged.

She patted my left arm, my right arm, my upper back and my lower back. She then said, "I need to reach in and feel along the inside of your waistband."

She felt along my waistline, moved behind me, then proceeded to feel both of my buttocks. She reached from behind in the middle of my buttocks towards my vagina area.

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my buttocks, or reach forward to my vagina area.

She then moved in front of my and touched the top and underneath portions of both of my breasts.

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my breasts.

She then felt around my waist. She then moved to the bottoms of my legs.

She then felt my inner thighs and my vagina area, touching both of my labia.

She did not tell me that she was going to touch my vagina area or my labia."

NM_Shooter -- "I'm also amazed at how easily the anti-Semites can be worked into a froth.  "

Well you can label me as you see fit to make me crazy in your mind.  But I do have a problem with these practices.  When your wife and daughters go through it, you will to. 

http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/11/new-tsa-pat-down-procedures.html

QuoteWomen in tight skirts that don't allow an agent to feel the thigh area may be asked to remove the skirt in a private screening area and will be given a gown or towel to put on.

stripped searched by a 12 dollar an hour mall security guard for no reason?  That's an acceptable practice?  To say otherwise is anti-Semitic?  what are you smoking? 

Quote from: Shawn B on November 15, 2010, 11:11:42 AM
I'm with ya Windpower......the faster we cut off the zionist nation of Israel the better off America will be.

Ahem.   ::)

I do not understand all the broohaha that came after I remarked that perhaps we could learn something from the Israelis. They employ people who job description contains the word profiler. The people they employ as profilers are intelligent university graduates, people who after their military service receive specialized training and are well paid. They are competent at watching for signs that indicate a person may need further questioning, any person, not just a goyim. They do not simply ask if anyone packed your bags for you; what kind of a farce is that?  Israel also uses technological devices but places a great reliance on personal interaction.

It is not racial profiling as much as it is behavior pattern recognition. Logan International in Boston has been using such techniques, BTW.



I wonder why the mere mention of Israel or Israeli security practices brings out the anti Israel comments so rapidly. ???   I know that any comment that might be favorable at all to the Nation of Israel or Israelis in general, will bring out the forces of anti-Semitism with their anti-Semite comments. And those who do express such views/opinions, know it'll piss me off.  Is it, let's see what we can do to get the moderator riled up? 

I wonder what countries, what peoples, those who bear grudges against Israel/Israelis deem to be better than them?

I think people are just tired of the whole security industrial complex in general. Much of which sorry to say orginated in Israel and is promoted and sold by Israel based companies. There are too many checkpoints. Too many cameras. Too many scanners. None of this seems to have made anyone much safer but made someone a lot of money. No matter what they do someone will find a way around it all if they really want to bad enough. Risk is part of life. I for one don't want to live in cage or a fish bowl and that's what all this security is bringing us to.

QuoteRisk is part of life. I for one don't want to live in cage or a fish bowl and that's what all this security is bringing us to.

My sentiments exactly. You always seem to nail the heart of the matter Scott.

So I have a question then.

What level of risk are you willing to tolerate?

Are you arguing that we should do away with airport security?   I don't think that is what you are arguing... so why all the nastiness over the next step in technology? 

Hijackings are way down since metal detectors and luggage xray have been implemented.  Bad folks have stepped it up with ceramics, plastics, and chemicals.  Are you saying that we should not respond to their increased technological steps in smuggling of weapons onto planes?

As for my daughters, I would rather they step through a backscatter imager than have to deal with a psycho on a plane holding a ceramic knife to their throat. 

I also make my daughters wear motorcycle helmets, seatbelts, get their vaccinations, eat their broccoli, lock their car doors, carry car insurance,  and floss. 

I have yet to understand the concern about the backscatter use.  Scared of radiation?  Then you shouldn't be flying at all.  You probably should avoid concrete, granite counter tops, smoke detectors, wifi, monitors, cell phones, microwave ovens and Chinese toy imports. 

The backscatter machines are not perfect, but they do raise the level of weapon detection considerably.  Arguing against them because they are not fully effective is like arguing against antibiotics because there are some bugs that are immune.  It is a nonsensical argument. 

I still think the serious threat is in the carry on baggage, but that is getting better too. 

So... what's your beef with backscatter?

Exactly how many planes in all history have been blown up by a passanger smuggling a bomb on to a plane? Not very many. I'll look it up later when I have time but I'm betting I can count them on my fingers. My beef with all this excess security is that it is degrading. Backscatter xray shows a nude image of the body. It may be dangerous to people who travel alot. Has it been tested for long term exposure?

When i first started flying I could carry a pocket knife onto a plane. Later I could put that same knife into a bowl when I walked through a metal detector and have it returned to me on the other side. Today you would be arrested and charged as a terrorist for trying the same thing that was totaly normal back then.

I used to always have my gerber folding knife in my pocket. I carried it for over 10 years. One day I had to go to court for my daughter. The security guards flipped out because I had this little 3" knife. I told them the same thing. I have carried this knife for years even onto planes and this was the first time anyone cared. Now it's suddenly an issue. They kept my knife. But I got it back when I thretened to file theft charges against the security officer. He returned it when I left.
As you can see it keeps getting more and more. Soon you will be scanned several times a day if you go out in public alot. How many times a day are you caught on camera? It will never end. If we don't stop this they will start putting cameras in private homes someday. That I will promise you.

QuoteI have yet to understand the concern about the backscatter use.

To quote ScottA once more, "Where does it end?" That's my concern.

I love my children dearly as well but am far more concerned with a technical malfunction or an over worked pilot than a psycho holding a ceramic knife at their throat.

Ok I had to use my toes and a couple of my wifes fingers. I came up with 24 airline bombings since 1933. Half of which took place during the 1960's.

But anyway, considering how many people fly every single day this still makes for some pretty good odds. So I will accept no security at airports for myself and my family. You did ask what I was willing to tolerate. More importantly is why do you even care if I get on a plane or not? Why do you care if I say so? Did something I say make you feel threatened? How so? Maybe you are in the airline business or maybe the security business? Or maybe you like the idea of putting everyone in a cage?

The Palestinians are Semitic, so are the Israelis anti-Semitic?  Arabs and many other nations and peoples are Semitic also.

On the way home from work today I already knew the stock - anti-Semite accusations would be thrown out - it is standard procedure any time someone hears an comment about our and Israel government policies that they do not like.  

I am not anti-Semitic and have many relatives listed in the Jewish cemeteries that you can look up if you care to. I think Israelis are great and should run politics - in their own country - not ours.  We should negotiate with them as independent country leaders of another country.  Not as our chief of staf to the president or leader of homeland (disgusting Nazi word based on the fatherland ) security.  A real Jewish lady told me the words "Homeland Security" send chills down her spine.  She is a holocaust survivor.

I am an American - a natural born citizen and descendant of pioneers.  Likely I am not eligible to be president given the standards accepted today.

I do not feel that Israeli citizens should hold our high offices since their allegiance is to Israel so they will compromise our policies.  A man cannot serve two masters.  Bones will be thrown to Israel that should not.  I do not feel that we should support them financially or militarily either.  Let's take care of our own first , if we can afford that.

When they then take that office and use it to promote things such as the stripper machines that they are invested in and profit greatly from it is even worse.  

The fliers have a legitimate health concern from the sloppy backscatter machines that put out an estimated twenty times more that what they are supposed to.

Note that there are going to be vans traveling the highways with more of these things upping your radiation dose even more without you even knowing it.

The biggest deterrent to terrorists (or freedom fighters?) would be if we stopped assaulting them and their families in their homelands and homes  right now.

2976 persons died in one day due to a small group of folks who smuggled box cutters onto planes.  Got enough fingers and toes to count them?  Let's poll the parents of those that got killed that day and see if the parents would have been willing to have to put up with imaging in exchanged for having their children back. 

Don't misunderstand me... I am not in favor of the full body contact search.  I am completely in favor of backscatter imaging.  It bothers me that those who have false positives have to endure the body search.  There needs to be a subsequent scan.  But any whiny types who purely "opt out" get what they deserve. 

Personally, I don't care if you fly, don't fly, or sit around all day and pack sand.  I have no dog in that fight.   I do care if psychos who wish to harm innocent passengers (and others) try to fly. 

We need to be using the absolute best technology possible to ensure that our flights are secure.  We should be profiling.  Heck, I'm even in support of background checks being used to pre-clear and make the security lines shorter for those who wish to get a "flight clearance" or whatever.   

And I don't believe for a second that you would let your family use planes if it was completely devoid of security practices.  Nope, that's nonsense.

Sorry Frank... I don't buy the government industrial military complex (Per Ike) conspiracy ridiculous fairytale (as with about 90 % of the rest of the world) so I still don't want to have my tools irradiated.

Our problem with these scanners etc. all stems from our government corruption, covering their crimes, foreign policy geared for industry for theft of other nations resources without regard for the lives of the small mineral rich defenseless countries we chose to destroy for our benefit.

That is why our government attacks our citizens with these harmful devices and tries to keep them groveling or sends them to our courts and prison systems where they can again make a profit.  There they happily transfer the taxpayers money to their pockets too.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 15, 2010, 10:20:59 PM

I do not feel that Israeli citizens should hold our high offices since their allegiance is to Israel so they will compromise our policies.  

Michael Chertoff is as American as Glenn or anyone else who has been born in this country. Michael Chertoff was born in Elizabeth, NJ. His father was a Rabbi, his mother an El Al flight attendant. I assume he gained his Israeli dual citizenship, after he was born an American, because of the policy of Israel to grant Israeli citizenship to anyone who can qualifies under the Israeli Law of Return. Many American borne people have availed themselves of the opportunity to accept Israeli citizenship. It is similar to a person borne in, say Canada; if one of their parents is a US citizen the baby has US citizenship.

It is true that a client of his security firm, the Chertoff Group, is Rapiscan Systems, one of the two manufacturers of this technology. So what?

I guess the fear mongering really works. Next they will tell you they need to put cameras in your house just in case you decide to rape your daughter. And the same old argument will be told about how the innocent have nothing to fear from security. That's what it's all about... FEAR. Creating and maintaining fear so people will give over their rights, their privacy and most importantly, their money for some false safety. I don't buy the whole planes hijacked with box cutters BS.

Glenn, you base everything on your dislike of the US government and dislike of Israel.  One nonsensical conspiracy theory after another.  Contrails, big government / big biz, earthquake generation, false flag attacks, whatever.  

Luckily, as long as private companies fly in goverment controlled airspace, they will continue to protect you whether your realize or appreciate it.  

"2976 persons died in one day due to a small group of folks who smuggled box cutters onto planes"


this 'small group of folks' also forced NORAD to stand down and not scramble any planes as is standard practise

this 'small group of folks' also managed to have the BBC announce that WTC 7 (the Soloman Building) had collapsed (but unfortunately this 'small group of folks' didn't have their timing down and the BBC announcement was 20 minutes ahead of the collapse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc&feature=related

and this 'small group of folks' warned employees of of the Israeli owned Odigo who had offices in the WTC of the danger 2 hours ahead of the attacks (as reported in  Ha'aretz)

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579


and this 'small group of folks' apparently warned ZIM that the WTC was not a safe place (with a little follow up by Chertoff later to cover this one)

ZIM, an Israeli company, vacated its office(10,000 square feet) in the North WTC tower a week before 9/11, breaking its lease. 49% of this company is owned by the Israeli government. The lease ran till the end of 2001, and the company lost $50,000 by breaking the lease. Later, FBI agent Michael Dick,  and looking into the suspicious move, was removed from his duties by the head of the Justice Department's criminal division, Michael Chertoff.


Pretty amazing what this 'small group of folks' could do

and you know what ?

the backscatter X-Ray machines would not have stopped any of this

anymore than they stopped the 'underwear bomber' when he went through them in Schipol

(http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3655=who%20was%20investigating%20Israeli%20spying%20before%20and%20after%209/11%5B/url)

QuoteIt is true that a client of his security firm, the Chertoff Group, is Rapiscan Systems, one of the two manufacturers of this technology. So what?

I guess if you find that Dick Cheney and Haliburton just happened by pure chance to make "some" money off of the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, hurricane Katrina, and the allocating of funds for future FEMA camps then nothing is wrong with it. I for one have major problems with government and ex-government officials profiting from war, fear, and the Big Brother/Police State.


Michael Chertoff is as American as Glenn or anyone else who has been born in this country.


Uh no...no is not. He holds dual citizenship. That brings up the question of which Nation is he more loyal too?  There really should be a proposed constitutional amendment to not allow dual citizens in government or the military. Naturalized citizens cannot.

Why did Clinton, Obama, and McCain all speak before AIPAC after the primaries were over? No power there ::)

As far as airport security is concerned I would return to pre=911 standards any day. Get rid of the naked body scanners, kick Homeland Security out, un-Federalize the airport workers (Thanks Bush, you great limited government champion), let the airlines and airport resume their role of security. Would keep the carry on bag scanner and checked baggage scanner, and the walk through metal detector. People could keep there finger nail clippers and small pocket knives  rofl If a checked bag needed to be opened for some reason the owner would get to be present. The TSA goons always open my suitcase and rifle through it, every time.




So 2976 (using Shooters number) died in one day. Thousands more have died in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan since that day. The U.S. has lost over 6,000 servicemen alone.

Michael Chertoff - In charge of the Criminal Division in the Justice Department on 9/11. Essentially responsible for the 9/11 NON-investigation. He let hundreds of Israeli spies who were arrested prior to and on 9/11 go back home to Israel. He was also a prosecuting judge in the first terrorist attack on the WTC in 1993. Chertoff purportedly holds dual citizenship with the US and Israel. His family is one of the founding families of the state of Israel and his mother was one of the first ever agents of the Mossad,
His wife, Meryll Chertoff, was a regional director of the ADL. Israel's spy agency. His father and uncle are ordained rabbis and teachers of the Talmud.

I suppose I could tolerate, though not fully accept the body scanning invasion if I believed the government truly had my (the public's) best interest in mind. However if they did you would think they would focus on the most probable causes of air travel deaths.

Pilot error is attributed to 50% of all airline fatalities, yet pilots are forced to work longer hours for less pay than in the past, especially on the smaller commuter lines. Often they are forced to fly with less fuel than they are comfortable with. Practices such as these maximize profits for the airlines but endanger you, the paying customer. Where is the outrage?

Maybe it is because truly safer air travel would require higher ticket prices, and people seem much more concerned about wallet than anything else. Raise the safety and maintenance standards of airlines and then I bet you would see some public outrage when the ticket prices jump 50% or more.

Focusing on terrorism yields relatively little safety gain, but it sure does make a lot of people rich.

Dug.....I cannot tolerate or accept the naked body scanners, or the Police State at any level. Even if this C.I.A. created Al-qaida threat were genuine threat.


Good point Windpower.....These people just don't come out of nowhere to take charge of high level government positions. There are many dual citizens in the original Obama cabinet and throughout the government. Many, many of them are Israeli dual citizens. When you consider that the Israeli/Jewish population makes up a very small percentage of the 310 million people in the U.S., it seems some red flags should go up somewhere.

Great!  I'll count on you folks not flying at all.  More peanuts for me!

Lets not bash Israel for being good at getting their people into positions of power. We'd all do the same thing if we could. The law has not been broken in that regard. Maybe the laws need to be changed but for now they are what they are. The real demon of DC is money and what it buys. If you have enough cash you can get just about any law you want passed. That needs to stop but likely never will. Must be a good deal for those with the printing presses like the FED.

Posted for all you Israel sycophants



http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Full+body+scanners+waste+money+Israeli+expert+says/2941610/story.html


A leading Israeli airport security expert says the Canadian government has wasted millions of dollars to install "useless" imaging machines at airports across the country.

"I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747," Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.

"That's why we haven't put them in our airport," Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.

Sela, former chief security officer of the Israel Airport Authority and a 30-year veteran in airport security and defence technology, helped design the security at Ben Gurion.

I am puzzled.   ???

The above  pretty much mirrors what my statement "I believe our government is going about this security all the wrong way. We continue to look for bad "stuff" not bad people. If we would spend more time doing the unthinkable... that is profiling people as they entered the airport, etc. it would do a lot more good. Borrowing a leaf from the anti-terror threat book that the Israelis have developed would help more than a bunch of expensive machines and invading everyone's body."  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9805.msg125607#msg125607 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9805.msg125607#msg125607) was stating.

That statement of mine got the whole anti-Israel crowd started on another round of Israel bashing. Now that last post brings us right back to where I began. ???  I suppose I should say thank you.

Thank you.


more from the VS article...

"Sela testified it makes more sense to create a "trusted traveller" system so pre-approved low-risk passengers can move through an expedited screening process. That would leave more resources in the screening areas, where automatic sniffing technology would detect any explosive residue on a person or their baggage.

Behavioural profiling also must be used instead of random checks, he said.

"Having a random search at the airport is like Russian roulette," said Sela"


Of course a major difference between many US airports and Ben Gurion is that many US airports have much heavier traffic. That might make Israeli style screening more labor intensive, but that may be preferable to spending fortunes on hardware.


Israel's top 10 airport security technologies

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/Executives/1315842?pageNum=1 (http://www.securityinfowatch.com/Executives/1315842?pageNum=1)

It's really simple. Someone in power is getting richer selling scanners. Common scense be damned.

I've gone through Israeli security several times and been interviewed by intelligent, intuitive security personnel (usually young women). They were trained to be very alert to facial and body cues and I felt this was a far better system than our investment in expensive equipment run by bored monitor watchers.

Even when the airport was quite busy these interviews did not seem to slow down the screening process. When I travel in the US the number of TSA people does not seem to be any less than in the Israeli airport.

One quick question windy....

By your own admission it is not good enough (I agree).

However, it is proven to be able to detect objects that would have gone undetected.

Here's the question...How does removing the backscatter technology help?

Can anyone name one incident that T.S.A./Homeland Security has stopped at a airport or on a flight?

Shawn B I looked all over for an example of a TSA save but all could come up with was that they stopped some 70 yr old lady from smuggling fudge. Musta been some mean fudge.

   What next?   Full body x-rays and cavity searches?   

/.

Just to clear up - I am not bashing Israel.

I don't feel that any amount of US money given to it will buy any politicians a stairway to heaven as they hope either.

I just want them out of our policy making processes due to conflicted loyalties.  It would be nice if the money sent there went to refill the stolen Social Security coffers if we need to put it somewhere. 

Corruption is so rampant in our government it will not be stopped.

Not even Israel is so corrupt that they mandate nudie scanners for profit and cheap TSA thrills.  Our government makes sure that our corporations and politicians investments are taken care of with future taxpayer money.  That is the name of the game.  The scanners are just a vehicle to transfer the money to the elite, as are all of the other scams they come up with.

What your wives and daughters may be in for from the TSA,  ....

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/972.html

Shooter


Airline travel and tourism is already down 10 to 20 %    Implimenting a procedure that by some polls will cause 95% of people to be less likely to fly, will further cut into this part of the economy and will cause more job losses.



roughly 600,000,000 people fly in the US per year. If only a 10% drop in passengers results from this assinine scanning procedure

that is many millions of dollars lost


the X-Ray machine unavoidably subjects each passenger to ionizing radiation.

read the concerns of several PhD scientists here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/ucsf-jph-letter.pdf

Ionizing radiation does have a negative impact on ones health at some level

One could argue that it is minor but, in fact, there have been no long term studies on the radiation these scanners have on human health.

One scientist estimated that since the X-Ray beam is highly focused as it scans your skin, statisically on a population each scan would subtract 45 minutes of life span.

for the sake of argument let's assume a very small, non-zero number of life loss per scan statistically on a population

Assume: .1 minute (6 seconds) of life span loss per scan

for 1 year of passengers (600 million) and we'll assume only one scan per passenger

that statistically works out to 400 person years of life span loss every year

What if it is 2 minutes of loss per scan --- you do the math

The point is they don't know -- but we do know that ionizing radiation negatively impacts human health


Even at this very low level of risk the scanners do not have a defensible risk/reward ratio

Lie: The scanners are safe

Quote
"They have been independently evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, who have all affirmed their safety." Napolitano claims, expecting the public to simply swallow the claim that NIST and the FDA are somehow "independent" of the federal government.

As for Johns Hopkins University declaring the scanners safe, tell it to Dr Michael Love, who runs an X-ray lab at the department of biophysics and biophysical chemistry at the Johns Hopkins school of medicine. Love told AFP two days ago that "statistically someone is going to get skin cancer from these X-rays".

"...we have a situation at the airports where people are so eager to fly that they will risk their lives in this manner," he added.So, unless you count skin cancer as safe, Napolitano is lying to you.

According to other numerous real "independent" scientists who continue to speak out over the health hazards associated with the x-ray technology, the body scanners are far from safe.

John Sedat, a University of California at San Francisco professor of biochemistry and biophysics and member of the National Academy of Sciences tells CNet that the machines have "mutagenic effects" and will increase the risk of cancer. Sedat previously sent a letter to the White House science Czar John P. Holdren, identifying the specific risk the machines pose to children and the elderly.

The letter stated:

"it appears that real independent safety data do not exist... There has not been sufficient review of the intermediate and long-term effects of radiation exposure associated with airport scanners. There is good reason to believe that these scanners will increase the risk of cancer to children and other vulnerable populations."

The TSA has repeatedly stated that going through the machines is equal to the radiation encountered during just two minutes of a flight. However, this does not take into account that the scanning machines specifically target only the skin and the muscle tissue immediately beneath.

The scanners are similar to C-Scans and fire ionizing radiation at those inside which penetrates a few centimeters into the flesh and reflects off the skin to form a naked body image.

The firing of ionizing radiation at the body effectively "unzips" DNA, according to scientific research by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The research shows that even very low doses of X-ray can delay or prevent cellular repair of damaged DNA, yet pregnant women and children will be subjected to the process as new guidelines including scanners are adopted.

The Inter-Agency Committee on Radiation Safety concluded in their report on the matter that governments must justify the use of the scanners and that a more accurate assessment of the health risks is needed.

Pregnant women and children should not be subject to scanning, according to the report, adding that governments should consider "other techniques to achieve the same end without the use of ionizing radiation."

"The Committee cited the IAEA's 1996 Basic Safety Standards agreement, drafted over three decades, that protects people from radiation. Frequent exposure to low doses of radiation can lead to cancer and birth defects, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency," reported Bloomberg.

Scientists at Columbia University also entered the debate recently, warning that the dose emitted by the naked x-ray devices could be up to 20 times higher than originally estimated, likely contributing to an increase in a common type of skin cancer called basal cell carcinoma which affects the head and neck.

"If all 800 million people who use airports every year were screened with X-rays then the very small individual risk multiplied by the large number of screened people might imply a potential public health or societal risk. The population risk has the potential to be significant," said Dr David Brenner, head of Columbia University's centre for radiological research.

Kudos to New Jersey


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H9HNEtrvEE&feature=player_embedded

QuoteWhat your wives and daughters may be in for from the TSA,  ....

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/972.html
Posted on: November 16, 2010, 07:42:24 PM

As if I needed any convincing, this interview confirms my views. I will never fly again unless it is absolutely necessary.

A lot of you may have lived your entire lives without having been subjected to this type of authoritative abuse but I have, more than once. Not at an airport (yet) but several times at border crossings (Canada and Mexico) and always when returning to the states, by American officials. Once you are spotlighted for interrogation you are temporarily stripped of all rights and are treated as an object, the fact that you are a human being and lifelong American citizen are completely ignored. Reasoning, or even talking to an official in this situation is futile, akin to trying to communicate with a pre recorded voice menu. Dehumanizing to say the least, and it really does shatter the illusion that you reside in a free country.

I'm not sure what it is about me, I know I am not the average Joe but I have always been respectful and polite by nature and have never been convicted of any crime worse than a traffic violation yet 3 of the 5 times I've been to Mexico, and the only time in Canada I have been detained, accosted, humiliated, and generally treated like dirt for no discernible reason.

The woman in the above interview may have been all for heightened airport security before this incident, but I'll bet she's not now.

Quote from: muldoon on November 17, 2010, 11:15:44 AM
Lie: The scanners are safe

Nonsense.  This is a perfect example of how data is misrepresented to make a point.  

By this very argument, then sunlight, gasoline, salt, Vit A, and cellphones should be banned too.  

more TSA crap


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkQoiaf7Uc&feature=player_embedded

Quote from: NM_Shooter on November 17, 2010, 12:05:35 PM

Quote from: muldoon on November 17, 2010, 11:15:44 AM
Lie: The scanners are safe

Nonsense.  This is a perfect example of how data is misrepresented to make a point.  

By this very argument, then sunlight, gasoline, salt, Vit A, and cellphones should be banned too.  

So you are an expert on how radiation effects the human body?

Here's an example of another perfectly safe product that killed people.

The United States Radium Corporation was a company operated between the years 1917 to 1926 in Orange, New Jersey, in the United States. After initial success in developing a glow-in-the-dark radioactive paint, the company closed in the late 1920s in the wake of severe illnesses and deaths of workers who had ingested radioactive material when they licked their brushes to paint the thin lines needed on watch dials. Workers had been told that the paint was harmless.[1] During World War I, the company sold many of its watches to the United States Army for use by soldiers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Radium_Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Radium_Corporation)

Quote from: NM_Shooter on November 17, 2010, 12:05:35 PM

Quote from: muldoon on November 17, 2010, 11:15:44 AM
Lie: The scanners are safe

Nonsense.  This is a perfect example of how data is misrepresented to make a point.  

By this very argument, then sunlight, gasoline, salt, Vit A, and cellphones should be banned too.  

???

A study conducted by Boian S. Alexandrov and colleagues at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico[12] performed mathematical models how terahertz fields interact with double-stranded DNA, showing that, even though involved forces seem to be tiny, nonlinear resonances (although much less likely to form than less-powerful common resonances) could allow terahertz waves to "unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication".[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave_scanner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave_scanner)

The health effects of the more common millimeter wave scanner are largely unknown, and at least one expert believes a safety study is warranted. "I am very interested in performing a National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements study on the use of millimeter-wave security screening systems," said Thomas S. Tenforde, council president. However, no long-term studies have been done on the health effects of millimeter wave scanners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray)

Not testing something does not make it automaticly safe.

Just to inject a little humor in the mix-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/17/taiwanese-tsa-cartoon_n_784709.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/17/taiwanese-tsa-cartoon_n_784709.html)

Pretty funny Taiwanese animated take on the TSA situation.

You just can't make this 5#it up !!



(http://cnsnews.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/medium/images/janet%20napolitano%203-thumbnail.jpg)


(CNSNews.com) - When asked today if she will insist that Muslim women wearing hijabs must go through full body pat downs before boarding planes, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano did not say yes or no, but told CNSNews.com there will be "adjustments" and "more to come" on the issue.

"On the pat downs, CAIR [the Council on American-Islamic Relations] has recommended that Muslim women wearing hijabs refuse to go through the full body pat downs before boarding planes," CNSNews.com asked Napolitano at a Monday press conference. "Will you insist that they do go through full body pat downs before boarding planes?"

"Look, we have, like I said before, we are doing what we need to do to protect the traveling public and adjustments will be made where they need to be made," Napolitano responded. "With respect to that particular issue, I think there will be more to come. But, again, the goal here, you know, we're not doing this just to do it.  We're doing it because we need to keep powders and gels and liquids off of planes that are unauthorized just as we need to keep metals off of planes.


more here

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/napolitano-adjustments-more-come-body-pa

   Mandatory chest x-rays and "enhanced pat-downs" in case of breast implant bombss.

/.

Quote from: ScottA on November 17, 2010, 12:45:14 PM
So you are an expert on how radiation effects the human body?

Little bit.  I've spent a fair amount of time doing research at the Los Alamos Neutron Science Center (LANSCE), and have done some work with heavy ions too. 

What's your nuclear background?

What sort of inspections will we receive when the suicide bombers start swallowing cndoms filled with explosives and the detonators is slipped up their rectum?

Quote from: NM_Shooter on November 17, 2010, 06:04:35 PM

Quote from: ScottA on November 17, 2010, 12:45:14 PM
So you are an expert on how radiation effects the human body?

Little bit.  I've spent a fair amount of time doing research at the Los Alamos Neutron Science Center (LANSCE), and have done some work with heavy ions too. 

What's your nuclear background?

The only nuclear experience I have is a number of years working on nuclear submarines. I had to wear a badge that recorded my daily exposure. I recived 60% of my allowed lifetime exposure during that time. And despite what they say you can feel radiation through a lead lined wall.

Quote from: MountainDon on November 17, 2010, 06:36:12 PM
What sort of inspections will we receive when the suicide bombers start swallowing cndoms filled with explosives and the detonators is slipped up their rectum?

You are exactly on target, Don

Ron Paul puts forth legislation -  American Traveler Dignity Act

1 paragraph long.  simple.  removes immunity from federal government to do things that private people cannot do.  You cannot grope people.  You cannot take nude pictures of people.. if we did these things we would be arrested.  Governments role is to protect rights, not abuse them.  Seems reasonable to me. 

http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1796

C-SPAN video of him from the floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwsdq69AHnw

QuoteIntroducing the American Traveler Dignity Act 

Mr. Speaker, today I introduce legislation to protect Americans from physical and emotional abuse by federal Transportation Security Administration employees conducting screenings at the nation's airports. We have seen the videos of terrified children being grabbed and probed by airport screeners. We have read the stories of Americans being subjected to humiliating body imaging machines and/or forced to have the most intimate parts of their bodies poked and fondled. We do not know the potentially harmful effects of the radiation emitted by the new millimeter wave machines.

In one recent well-publicized case, a TSA official is recorded during an attempted body search saying, "By buying your ticket you gave up a lot of rights." I strongly disagree and am sure I am not alone in believing that we Americans should never give up our rights in order to travel. As our Declaration of Independence states, our rights are inalienable. This TSA version of our rights looks more like the "rights" granted in the old Soviet Constitutions, where freedoms were granted to Soviet citizens -- right up to the moment the state decided to remove those freedoms.

The incident of the so-called "underwear bomber" last Christmas is given as justification for the billions of dollars the federal government is spending on the new full-body imaging machines, but a Government Accountability Office study earlier this year concluded that had these scanners been in use they may not have detected the explosive material that was allegedly brought onto the airplane. Additionally, there have been recent press reports calling into question the accuracy and adequacy of these potentially dangerous machines.

My legislation is simple. It establishes that airport security screeners are not immune from any US law regarding physical contact with another person, making images of another person, or causing physical harm through the use of radiation-emitting machinery on another person. It means they are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

Imagine if the political elites in our country were forced to endure the same conditions at the airport as business travelers, families, senior citizens, and the rest of us. Perhaps this problem could be quickly resolved if every cabinet secretary, every member of Congress, and every department head in the Obama administration were forced to submit to the same degrading screening process as the people who pay their salaries.

I warned at the time of the creation of the TSA that an unaccountable government entity in control of airport security would provide neither security nor defend our basic freedom to travel. Yet the vast majority of both Republicans and Democrats then in Congress willingly voted to create another unaccountable, bullying agency-- in a simple-minded and unprincipled attempt to appease public passion in the wake of 9-11.  Sadly, as we see with the steady TSA encroachment on our freedom and dignity, my fears in 2001 were justified.

The solution to the need for security at US airports is not a government bureaucracy. The solution is to allow the private sector, preferably the airlines themselves, to provide for the security of their property. As a recent article in Forbes magazine eloquently stated, "The airlines have enormous sums of money riding on passenger safety, and the notion that a government bureaucracy has better incentives to provide safe travels than airlines with billions of dollars worth of capital and goodwill on the line strains credibility." In the meantime, I hope we can pass this legislation and protect Americans from harm and humiliation when they choose to travel.

SAN MATEO COUNTY, Calif. (KGO) -- The San Mateo district attorney's office has a warning for all TSA personnel at SFO -- anyone inappropriately touching a passenger during a security pat down will be prosecuted.

Incoming San Mateo DA Steve Wagstaffe says any complaints of inappropriate touching during an airport security pat down will land on his desk.

"The case would be reviewed and if we could prove the elements of it, that it was inappropriately done with a sexual or lewd intent, that person would be prosecuted," he said.

Makes me proud that I contributed to his campaign and voted for him for president

you go Ron Paul !

Quote from: peternap on November 18, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
SAN MATEO COUNTY, Calif. (KGO) -- The San Mateo district attorney's office has a warning for all TSA personnel at SFO -- anyone inappropriately touching a passenger during a security pat down will be prosecuted.

Incoming San Mateo DA Steve Wagstaffe says any complaints of inappropriate touching during an airport security pat down will land on his desk.

"The case would be reviewed and if we could prove the elements of it, that it was inappropriately done with a sexual or lewd intent, that person would be prosecuted," he said.

I hope they enforce it and don't weasel out on no proof of sexual or lewd intent.

it's not the onion either.  you just cannot make this up. 

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=6687

QuoteThe head of Homeland Security has indicated the government is considering the request of an Islamic organization that has suggested Muslim women be allowed to pat themselves down during a full body search that is part of new enhanced procedures at airports.

Quote from: muldoon on November 18, 2010, 05:16:44 PM
it's not the onion either.  you just cannot make this up. 

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=6687

QuoteThe head of Homeland Security has indicated the government is considering the request of an Islamic organization that has suggested Muslim women be allowed to pat themselves down during a full body search that is part of new enhanced procedures at airports.

Even I got a giggle out of that!   [rofl2]

There will be no exceptions for religious reasons (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/tsa-administrator-advanced-imaging-or-pa):

QuoteTransportation Security Administration Chief John S. Pistole told a Senate committee yesterday that air passengers selected by the TSA for enhanced screening who decline to undergo either a full-body scan or a full body pat down will not be allowed to board planes in the United States.

There will be no exceptions, Pistole said, even for people who cite religious reasons for refusing to undergo the scan or pat down.

The definitive statement came at the conclusion of a nearly three-minute exchange on the question between Pistole and Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) in a hearing of the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

"Either the imaging or the pat down, let's just say I don't want either of them, because of religious reasons, what happens to me?" Ensign asked at the end of the exchange.

"So, while I respect and we respect that person's belief, that person's not going to get on an airplane," Pistole replied.

"There will be no exceptions?" asked Ensign.

"No," said Pistole.

The wife, grand daughter (she's 2 and a half) and I are finally going to Hawaii this weekend.

Flying from Chicago to Honolulu.

Could be interesting......


I'll keep you folks informed.  :)



sparks

Hope all goes well, Sparks.

They have even been molesting the little kids and putting their hands inside of the men's underwear from what I am reading now as more and more of this stuff comes out.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1330569/Airport-security-staff-caught-camera-body-searching-crying-3-year-old-girl.html

Quote"It has also emerged the TSA is being sued for a an incident at the Corpus Christi airport when a woman's breasts were exposed.

An unnamed 23-year-old college student was allegedly singled out for 'extended search procedures' before flying in 2008.

'As the TSA agent was frisking plaintiff, the agent pulled the plaintiff's blouse completely down, exposing plaintiffs' breasts to everyone in the area,' the Amarillo Globe-News quotes the lawsuit as saying.

'As would be expected, plaintiff was extremely embarrassed and humiliated.'The suit said the woman filed an administrative claim against the TSA, but when they never responded, she sued.

The suit also claims staff joked about the woman's breasts.

'One male TSA employee expressed to the plaintiff that he wished he would have been there when she came through the first time and that 'he would just have to watch the video,'  the lawsuit said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1330569/Airport-security-staff-caught-camera-body-searching-crying-3-year-old-girl.html#ixzz15gzBKWL1

I guess someone should look at what the federal gov is trying to pull off at this time as everyone is preoccupied with the pornoscanner thing.  Must be some big operation they are pulling.

I gotta weigh in here.....

Don't TSA me bro!!!!!!

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 18, 2010, 09:36:43 PM
I guess someone should look at what the federal gov is trying to pull off at this time as everyone is preoccupied with the pornoscanner thing.  Must be some big operation they are pulling.

Glenn, I think among other things they're testing the limits to see how far the American public will allow them to go.

I always get special treatment. Been thru the scanner in Charlotte and Denver. Possible health risks aside, I feel more violated by a hospital gown. Like most people I've been x rayed many times.

I am curious if all the workers in terminals who are beyond security are getting screened daily or multiple times daily.

I believe it is the set a precedent.  Enough time groping people in airports "because you purchased a ticket", why not extend it to your car as you are on gov't roads.  Why not your computer?  Your home.......  etc....   Incrementalism.

   And, while being groped and x-rayed . . .

   The TSA agent has plenty of time to "inspect" your carry-on luggage.   

   "More than 60 TSA screeners have been arrested for theft at 30 different airports, both large and small. Some have been caught going through bags in full view of airport security cameras -- one is even seen on tape pocketing a gold bracelet."

   "The TSA has settled 15,000 passenger claims filed over theft by screeners and has paid out $1.5 million in damages."

   "ABC News has learned that at New York's three major airports -- John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International and LaGuardia -- 400 of the first 2,000 screeners hired had criminal records."

/.

"ABC News has learned that at New York's three major airports -- John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International and LaGuardia -- 400 of the first 2,000 screeners hired had criminal records."

Holy Cow - I hadn't heard this! This is an overwhelming percentage of hires with criminal records; no other industry or profession would stoop so low as to hire 20% of its employees with criminal records. I reiterate my earlier position - the TSA has been allowed to run rampant for too long and needs to be reined in. I hope the new Congress takes this issue up soon.

OK - so we have learned that 20% of TSA agents are thieves.

Let us assume that at least another 20% or more are perverts, another 20% are child molesters, another 20% are looking for same sex contact, and another 20% are pedophiles.  

Those types of people are drawn to jobs like this where they can get free access to victims under color of law.  They don't even have to have a previous record.  

The TSA just makes it easy for them to fulfill their fantasies while being protected from prosecution, but having full power to prosecute under Federal protection.

A perfect job for an incompetent low life on a power trip and while getting rewarded with an American lower class wage and bonus testosterone surges  for making the life of the sheeple miserable.  That will teach the sheeple what terrorism is really about... [waiting]

Oh yeah -  I am not putting down any of them individually.... consider this statement to apply only to the generic perverts employed there....and not to the good one..... [ouch]

Consider that people unemployable in this hard financial time will gladly sell themselves out to the federal government TSA for a lower class wage.  That is the quality of agent we get as we enjoy their hands fondling our family jewels. [scared]

(Soldiers returning from Afganistan)


http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/

snip

This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying pistols.

So we're in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the Soldier that they're going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went something like this:

TSA Guy: You can't take those on the plane.

Soldier: What? I've had them since we left country.

TSA Guy: You're not suppose to have them.

Soldier: Why?

TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.

Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a weapon. And I'm allowed to take it on.

TSA Guy: Yeah but you can't use it to take over the plane. You don't have bullets.

Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?

TSA Guy: [awkward silence]

Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the f**k out of here. I'll buy you a new set.

Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]

This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233 people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine guns–but nothing that could have been used as a weapon.

Windpower, that was actually a made up story.   d*

This was at the top of the post

it could be false but this was written at the top of the article and it is not a satirical site


What is the source that it is false.....



"Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile)

Thursday, November 18th at 6:28PM EST

68 Comments
UPDATE: I'm getting a lot of emails asking if this is actually true and is this person actually someone I know. (1) Yes it is true — it is too absurd to be made up. (2) Yes, I know the person."

There was a long thread about it on another forum.  I'll have to find it.  Basically, many service men and women debunked it on many fronts as not possible.  Everything wasn't SOP except maybe the nail clippers...  Which,, they do allow today.

I certainly agree it sounds absurd

but then to quote a Rod Machado, a favorite flight instructor

"truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense"

I agree that the TSA is so absurd, they could actually do it....

Hitler had his brown shirts,,,, 0bama has his blue shirts....

TSA - Breast Cancer - no problem -

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13534628

I have a solution...  We can send the TSA to the border...  They'll do the job the ruling class won't allow the border patrol to do...

TSA: Travelers Who Refuse Scanning Can't Leave, Will Be Fined
Passengers 'Can Not Just Decide to Leave'

QuoteFaced with the prospect of large numbers of people refusing the invasive "screening" measures they've implemented this holiday season, the TSA is hoping to fight back with threats of fine and arrest.

"Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave" warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the "full body scanners" and the "enhanced pat down" procedures will be taken into custody.

Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff's office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects, held until they are convinced they don't pose a terror threat.

The TSA genital "patdowns" have led to threats from some local prosecutors to charge them with sexual assault, but the TSA has shrugged off public outcry over the measures and seems more intent than ever on cowing the public into submission.

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/

Since this:

(http://woofie4.pixiq.com/files/fg_tsa_lingerie_e1290458778807.jpg)

wasn't enough to prevent a secondary feel-up pat-down (http://vimeo.com/17057322), I guess the next logical step will have to be

(http://www.mooncostumes.com/image/5104)

Remember folks...it's all about YOUR safety. ::)

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 20, 2010, 12:45:52 PM
TSA: Travelers Who Refuse Scanning Can't Leave, Will Be Fined
Passengers 'Can Not Just Decide to Leave'

QuoteFaced with the prospect of large numbers of people refusing the invasive "screening" measures they've implemented this holiday season, the TSA is hoping to fight back with threats of fine and arrest.

"Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave" warned Sari Koshetz, a TSA spokesperson. TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the "full body scanners" and the "enhanced pat down" procedures will be taken into custody.

Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists, face fines of up to $11,000 and may also be turned over to local police. One sheriff's office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects, held until they are convinced they don't pose a terror threat.

The TSA genital "patdowns" have led to threats from some local prosecutors to charge them with sexual assault, but the TSA has shrugged off public outcry over the measures and seems more intent than ever on cowing the public into submission.

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/tsa-travelers-who-refuse-scanning-cant-leave-will-be-fined/

I spent literally 45 minutes reading the TSA website today.

I could find no reference to a fine for refusing the scan and grope.

This is interesting because the 'don't touch my junk guy' was threatened with the fine if he left the airport and as I recall he said 'go ahead' or something similar.

Now the point is if a passenger is not informed beforehand   of the ramifications of refusing the scan and the grope then it is unenforcible

there must be a sign or a statement that you sign or some thing to inform the passenger.

IMO this would never stand in a court of law (not to say it could not be rammed through in this day and age of illegal actions by the governments)

but I think there are some lawyers that would love to make a 'federal case' over this


and then there is this news article from the Daily Mail in the UK about a man that flew out of Cincinnati who refused the scan and the grope and went on his flght

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332276/Beating-TSA-How-determined-passenger-spent-hours-arguing-rights-waved-checks.html


I think that the TSA is running scared on this one

Since I am not flying until the week after thanksgiving I personally hope that the opt out day ---tomorrow -- is an absolutely fantastic success

that is to say, I hope they shut down air travel in the US on what is typically the busiest day of the year 


 

Quote from: phalynx on November 20, 2010, 12:29:32 PM
I have a solution...  We can send the TSA to the border...  They'll do the job the ruling class won't allow the border patrol to do...

   You've got my vote!

/.

Body Scanner Operator Caught Masturbating at Colorado Airport (http://ht.ly/3dZVJ)

QuoteA full body scanner operator was caught masturbating during a scanning session by airport staff late Tuesday.

Airport officials at Denver International airport were on high alert yesterday when a full body scanner operator was caught masturbating in his booth as a team of High School netball players went through the scanner.

"The young ladies were going through the scanner one by one, and every time one went through, this guys face was getting redder and redder. His hand was moving and then he started sweating. He was then seen doing his 'O' face. That's when the security dragged him out of his booth and cuffed him. He had his pants round his ankles and everybody was really disgusted," Jeb Rather, a passenger on a flight to New York told CBS news.

I guess we need a little levity sometimes, Pox







BUT THIS IS NOT THE TIME

and this is a very perverted post


is this 'screener' your champion or idol ?

or do you just think this is funny

Seems that post is another one of those stupid parody hoaxes, but this one is not -

http://lagrangenews.com/view/full_story/10413596/article-BREAKING-NEWS--TSA-employee-accused-of-kidnap--assault?instance=secondary_news_left_column

TSA employee Kidnap - sexual assault- suicide attempt.

   If it's on the Internet, it must be true . . . .

   Maybe Pox doesn't know that The Daily Squib is a satire website . . . .

/.

Another question:

If it's all about keeping bombs off planes for passenger safety then why is the TSA CREATING target rich environments in unsecured areas?

(http://news.cheapflights.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/airport-security-line.jpg)

How many backpacks and/or carry-on bags do you see in that teeming mass of people herded together by the TSA that could be containing 40 lbs of boom (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94yoRIQRHq4&feature=related")? (note the security checkpoint to the RIGHT of the photo...the place everyone is racked and stacked trying to get through.)

Right!

And once again, taking a page from Israel's book, they screen people before they get inside. Like I said before we are not approaching this problem from the right direction.

Oh, well I said I'd get back to you.

We left O'hare in Chicago about 9am on the 22 of November.

Routine stuff...

Take your shoes off.........put all your stuff in a plastic box......

And walk through here.....

the metal detector.....

OK....go to Hawaiii..............................

......


Same drill on the way back.......


Nov. 26.......

Take your shoes off ......blah...blah...blah

Metal detector.......


Blah..blah blah



BLAH




sparks




Oh, I forgot to mention we arrived back home OK  :)

Quote from: sparks on November 27, 2010, 04:44:28 PM
Oh, well I said I'd get back to you.

We left O'hare in Chicago about 9am on the 22 of November.

Routine stuff...

Take your shoes off.........put all your stuff in a plastic box......

And walk through here.....

the metal detector.....

OK....go to Hawaiii..............................

......


Same drill on the way back.......


Nov. 26.......

Take your shoes off ......blah...blah...blah

Metal detector.......


Blah..blah blah



BLAH




sparks




Oh, I forgot to mention we arrived back home OK  :)

Glad you didn't have any problems Sparks.
It does appear TSA blinked.

Glad it went well.  Seems they slacked off from all of the uproar and bad publicity.

Good article I just read.

ZERO 'Terrorists' Caught -
Our Fourth Amendment Shredded
and with that one

For The Obtuse Who Live Among Us
Let Me Give This One More Try
By Neal Ross

Explanation of what is wrong with this picture for those of us who are confused or forget..... [noidea'

http://www.rense.com/general92/zero.htm

I don't see how any individual with critical thinking and reasoning skills can not understand those two small articles that Glenn posted.

Maybe I should post my feelings elsewhere........a new thread .....maybe......





I visited Pearl Harbor a few days ago.....




There were a bunch of Japanese folks there.....I wonder........




what were they thinking........or feeling?


I came away with one hell of a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes....


Yeah, right..body scanners


December 7 is not far away





sparks

Not the Japanese people as an enemy though, Sparks.  The political system - lust for power and greed- lies of politics is the enemy.  

I talk to lots of foreign students ... many from Japan.  The people of Japan or nearly any other country are not our enemies and most don't harbor ill will against us for what our politicians and war machine does.

We knew ahead of time about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor, but our leadership chose to let it happen.

"The Attack on Pearl Harbor, 1941, The US Administration of FDR sought to involve America in World War II.  But the American people wanted to stay out of it.  So the Administration provoked Japan, in the hope that they would attack the U.S.  The plan worked, and FDR made sure that the attacks took place successfully and had the maximum effect and impact.  Believing that it was a surprise and unprovoked attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor, Americans now supported U.S. entry into the war."

http://www.truthandliberty.com/False-Flag_Attacks.html

"The US naval intelligence, chief of Japan desk planned and suggested "8 insults", which should bring Japan into war with the US. President Roosevelt executed this plan immediately and also added some other insults, enraging the Japan. The most serious one was a total blockade of Japanese oil imports, as agreed between the Americans, British and the Dutch. FDR also declared an all-out embargo against the Japan and forbade them the use of Panama canal, impeding Japan's access to Venezuelan oil.

The Flying Tigers volunteer air group successfully fighting the Japanese in China with some 90 fairly modern P-40Bs was another effective provocation that is not generally acknowledged by historical accounts of World War 2, most of which fail to mention any air combat action prior to 7th December 1941. But at that time the Japanese had already had lost about 100 military aircraft, mostly bombers, to the Tigers. After Pearl Harbor these squadrons were some of the the hardest-hitting ones in the US service.

The attack on Pearl Harbour followed some 6 months later. Having broken the Japanese encryption codes, the Americans knew what was going to happen, when and where, but the president did not dispatch this information to Pearl Harbor. Americans even gave their friends the British 3 Magic decrypting machines which automatically opened encrypted Japanese military traffic. But this same information was not available to the commanders of Hawaii. The movement of the fleet was also visible in the very effective radio direction finding network. Japan had an alliance with Germany, and the Germans upheld their promises by declaring the war against the USA right after the Japanese declaration.

Two scapegoats, the navy commander Admiral Husband Kimmel, and the army commander Lt. General Walter Short were found incompetent and demoted as they were allowed to retire. Short died 1949 and Kimmel 1958. In 1995, the US Congress re-examined this decision and endorsed it. Then in 2000 some archive information came to light and the US Senate passed a resolution stating that both had served in Hawaii "competently and professionally". In 1941 they were denied vital information, and even on presidential orders purposefully mislead into believing that the Japanese feet could be expected from the southwest. These commanders have yet to be rehabilited by the Pentagon. "

http://www.911review.com/articles/anon/false_flag_perations.html

I think I can safely say we should not believe the story as first presented to us.  History is re-written to keep us looking good.  Our politicians lie to us to manufacture consent and  make money for the war machine.

I almost got to talk to a young Japanese economist about this history and his views a couple weeks ago.  We started a bit of dialogue at dinner.  Unfortunately I ran out of time before he had to go back to college.  

I mentioned that I wanted to get his take as history gets re-written to make things look good.  His reply was that all countries are guilty of  re-writing history to make themselves look good.

PS: Sparks, I emailed a Japanese student from the group to see if I can get his email and commentary.  Hopefully she will get back to me shortly possibly with comments of her own and his address.

I know the kids have no ill feelings toward us.  They may toward war and politics.  I'm not sure what the student was referring to.  I am waiting for the reply from Risa, the one on the right.

(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/MomiandRisa2.jpg)

Looks like I may have trouble getting hold of him - Risa said she goes to a different college than he does and she didn't study history that hard when she was in High School so is not that familiar with the events. 

She does see him once in a while so if she does she will give him my e-mail.

Looks like time is taking history away from the younger generation.  Maybe that is a good thing.

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 27, 2010, 11:21:33 PM

The Flying Tigers volunteer air group successfully fighting the Japanese in China with some 90 fairly modern P-40Bs was another effective provocation that is not generally acknowledged by historical accounts of World War 2,......

That statement ignores what led up to Flying Tigers being formed in the first place.... Japans attacked China in 1937 with intentions of taking over large parts of China for similar reasons that Hitler espoused for Germany attacking other countries. They wanted to take resources and space by force, rather than buy them.

Read about Nanking, China and what the Japanese forces did to the civilians as well as Chinese military there.

I'd hardly call assisting the Chinese as provoking the Japanese when the larger picture is assessed.

Interesting logic Don. So if Iran was to help the Taliban we should not consider that a provication? What if China helps North Korea?

I think you need to differentiate, whether it is us, the master race, or any one of a bunch of lesser races, Scott... [waiting]

We have been repeatedly taught by our military that other races are simply very near to being animals.  Depends on who the axis of evil is for the day.

The U.S. helping China was a defacto declaration of war against Japan. When will the U.S. gov't realize that by supporting one country's war effort, it antagonizes the other?

A little bit of history, the Flying Tigers were part of a larger group called the A.V.G.  (American) All Volunteer Group.


As far as the Peal Harbor Attack.....it's fairly common knowledge that FDR knew where.....I'm not so sure about when.

Scott, Iran does help the Taliban and the Iraqi resistance fighters. China supplies North Korea with large amounts of supplies and weapons. Russia probably does too. Pakistan provides the Taliban with weapons, hiding, and support. The C.I.A. and D.O.D are already fighting a limited air war in Pakistan with Predator and Reaper drone attacks. This time around no-volunteers are needed and no Americans have to die (yet) in Pakistan. Makes having a illegal, un-Constitutional war a easier sell to the public.

We also unofficially pay the Taliban large sums of money to allow us to travel some routes unmolested some of the time, through contractors.  Our government is well aware that the money goes to the Taliban and is being used against our troops.

http://www.thenation.com/article/how-us-funds-taliban

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/13/us-trucks-security-taliban

Our soldiers are set up as cannon fodder by our own government who's politicians, corporations and investors benefit from war machine sales.  Our boys don't have a chance of winning a war against an enemy funded by our own government.  

Not actually an enemy, but a tool created by the US elite- the Taliban and Al-CIAda were started by us against the Russians and are now used to keep the undefined war on terror going so that groups such as the Carlyle group (Bush/BinLaden and others partnership), Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater/XE, General Dynamics and on and on and on, can profit from tools of war.  Keeping the war going keeps taxpayer money transferring to their bank accounts.  Deaths of middle and lower class offspring as well as innocent greater middle easterners are of no consequence to them.

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/pol/wtc/oblnus091401.html

Body Scanners- just another money maker for the elite and corporate America.  People are scum.. money is king.  Follow the money.

http://www.allgov.com/Where_is_the_Money_Going/ViewNews/Body_Scanners_Create_Profits_for_Chertoff_and_Others_101123

Homeland Security TSA molestation now at your bus stop.

Notice what the officials list as why they are doing these screenings. Smuggling, illegal immigration, terrorists, etc. Pathetic. Notice the conditioned sheeple also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4G-0g9PRrE

   "Your papers, please."

   History repeating itself?

/

Someone, somewhere is scared of something.  ;)

Chertoff is scared that the sheeple won't allow the government and politicians to feather his pockets....

Next stop for TSA- interstate freeway checkpoints? Some already in place here in the SW, though TSA hasn't taken over yet. Remember, driving is a privilege!

I would hope that the 2nd American Revolution would start if TSA thugs were to have road side checkpoints.

Quote from: sparks on November 27, 2010, 10:35:51 PM
Maybe I should post my feelings elsewhere........a new thread .....maybe......

I visited Pearl Harbor a few days ago.....

There were a bunch of Japanese folks there.....I wonder........


what were they thinking........or feeling?


I came away with one hell of a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes....


Yeah, right..body scanners


December 7 is not far away


sparks

Sparks, I am happy to say that I got in touch with Kyan and he said he would be happy to talk history with us.  I posed your question to him.  We will see what he says.  :)

I will just post the reply to Sparks portion of this conversation here.  If others are interested in more of this let me know and I will start a new thread with more of the complete conversations.  We are discussing more history on e-mail.

I told Kyan of the above history - we knew of the pending attack and allowed it to happen without letting the Fleet in Pearl Harbor know of it. I think we need to share some of the guilt for setting up our own troops in Pearl Harbor as sitting ducks to win consent to enter the war.   I for sure do not blame our troops who were protecting our country from whatever enemy - if only they had known that we - our government was also their enemy and would allow them to be attacked to manufacture consent,  when we could have stopped it..... [waiting]

An interesting read on the pattern for this type of false flag action...

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/diocletian.html

I also asked his thoughts on our use of the A-bomb there.  Kyan is an international student - we get only the best chosen from foreign countries to study here.  He is an economics major with a great interest in history, a love of life and is just plain awe inspired by the beauty of nature in Yosemite, but I think it may be wherever he goes.  Here is his reply:


Glenn,



Thank you for your e-mail.



I'm not quite sure if America is more "guilty" for letting Japanese attack the Pearl Harbor. Although it was a direct reason why the pacific war started, war does not break out with a single reason, right? There was tension escalating between Japan and America at that time for some reasons, so a conflict between these two countries might have been inevitable, I'm not sure on this point, though. Anyways, the war started and I don't think either side was more guilty or wrong. I mean, I don't think there is righteous or evil, right or wrong in a battlefield. What we have in war is either win or lose, survive or die. Allowing Japanese military to attack Pearl Harbor was just a political decision to unite nations, so I don't especially blame American government for that.


Speaking about Atomic bombs, I don't think they were used because American government was barbaric. Human beings obtained a new type of weapon so somebody had to try that to see how it worked. If U.S. didn't use an A-bomb, I think somebody else used it instead because we needed to see how nuclear weapons worked in a battlefield and also as a tool of politics. Therefore, I do not say America is especially cruel for using nuclear weapons, although I don't wanna approve it. As a fact, atomic bombs surely ended the WW2 but I just wonder if there was really no other way to end the war because A-bombs were too destructive and devastating. Too many people died and some are still suffering even today from radiation. I don't especially blame America for dropping atomic bombs, but I disagree with the idea that it brought peace so it was a right choice to use them. These are my opinions for atomic bombs.


I personally don't hate Americans either. I rather like them. I don't really know what our enemy is because I think there are so many complicated reasons which causes tons of problems of the world. I still need to learn a lot to answer this question.

Kyan

Thanks Glenn,

My last two lines appear to be provocative...they're not. Just short rambling disconnected thoughts.

At one point on the tour at the USS Arizona, I observed an elderly Japanese woman in a wheelchair place a very frail hand on the railing to peer at the last remaining gun turret . By the look on her face and the tears in her eyes .......I knew what she was feeling..............and that's when I lost it.

We know how it happened..........but why??  The previous posts have shed much light on this.

I believe a new thread is in order. Sorry for the hi-jack.




sparks

I didn't take it so much as provocative, Sparks as I did a feeling of wanting answers.  I already was aware of the events in place to get us there - the false flag op.  I had really wanted to talk to Kyan when he mentioned some things about history....then time ran out and they had to run back to college- long trip to Reno.  

You gave me a reason to follow up on contacting him and getting to do more sharing of feelings and cultures.  I really see this international student hosting as a great opportunity for communication that I could never get in any other way.  Kyan stayed at another friends house so it took a bit more effort for me to get his e-mail.  I did get the privilege of having dinner with him Saturday evening a couple weeks ago.  


Hard to hijack around here if it is remotely related.  Thanks for posting on it.

Hmm - used the B word in my reply to Kyan and got a delay on sending my e-mail - guess HLS wanted to check it out.... - this topic too I'm sure.... [waiting]