I've been designing this shop/studio/garage for the last couple of months, its 24x48, I might increase the size to 28x48. Anyhow, I'm pretty new to construction so I've spend some quality time reading up on framing, concrete etc... I think I'm almost there with the design but I found this board that has answered some of my questions so I thought I might post up some screenshots so I can get some feedback before we start spending money...
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/FRAMING20120208B.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/FRAMING20120208_FIX.jpg)
More pictures here:
http://design.medeek.com/studio/ (http://design.medeek.com/studio/)
w* to the neighborhood! I'm just across the county line to your north, so I'll call it close enough to be neighbors.
In your design, did you consider one large shed dormer per side? That would give you a much wider and more usable upstairs area, plus it would improve views from that area out the windows. I'm guessing it would also involve significantly less labor both in framing and roofing. Disclosure: I'm partial to shed dormers, but I understand if you prefer the aesthetics of the gable dormers. If you like the gable dormers, had you considered fewer but wider dormers? Looks like you're building on a slope; will there be a partial daylight basement on the downhill side?
Will look forward to seeing your project!
Edit: Answered the question about the basement by going to your photos. Interesting view; I'm guessing that's not something visible from Stanwood, is it?
First I am impressed with your model. What did you do it in??
Second I also like larger dormers, they give a lot more usable space and IMO have a lot more appeal inside.
Had a friend with really narrow dormers, which yours may not be, and he hated them (bought house unfinished upstairs, then finished).
Got another friend with a large dormer and it was like another room.
Ok, to answer a few questions.
The background on the one picture is a view of the mountain just south of Hazelton B.C. Canada, my ancestral home. Thought it would make a cool backdrop for the model and was the only picture of landscape I had on my computer at the moment.
The model is done in Solidworks 2010, I used to use Autocad a lot but since I've started modeling in Solidworks I've become a convert. The parametric features in Solidworks kills Autocad in my opinion.
The dormers are about 6' in width so they are fairly decent sized however space is a concern. I'm not a huge fan of the shed dorm look so now I'm looking at a barn style roof (gambrel) to see if that buys me more room. I like the clear spanning trusses I found at barnplans.com but I also want to have a clearspan on the first floor, that is what the attic trusses were getting me.
Also I've redesigned the framing on the dormers, and gone with a more conventional framed in design versus the scissor truses shown. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I'll upload some comparative pictures shortly.
You can view the Solidworks models here:
http://design.medeek.com/studio/solidworks/ (http://design.medeek.com/studio/solidworks/)
To view download the E-Drawings free view here:
http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/downloads.htm (http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/downloads.htm)
I find the SolidworksViewer is easier to use but it lacks some of the more advanced measurement tools.
Models are really cool. I encourage you to then seek out and look at some listed real estate that has layout similarities, like the dormers, to actually stand in that type of space and try to visualize the living in it.
Here are screenshots of the two dormer designs, version 3 is the bottom image with conventional framing.
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/dormer_ver2.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/dormer_ver3.jpg)
Howdy neighbor,
I did a similar project a while back on Camano. Great place, a bit bigger than you are planning. It turned out very nice and the wife even liked it. I'll see if I can retrieve some pictures from the puter I was using at the time that is now dead...
If I had the opportunity to build for myself again I'd probably do something very similar. Economical to build and very functional.
If you're looking for local tradesmen and suppliers I could recommend a few.
I'm thinking of bumping it up to 28'x48' from 24'x48'. Anyone have any experience with attic trusses that span 28 feet, will the attic floor be too springy at this span? I had BMC give me a quote on both truss packages and for both they used a 2x10 bottom chord, just wondering if 2x12 might be a better option for the longer span.
I've used them on 40' wide building (bonus room over a garage). With 1-1/8" subfloor the floor felt plenty stiff.
Nice models. The truss company can likely handle the wider span. Certainly you couldn't span 28' with a standard 2x12 joist (assuming no interior beam). You would need an I-joist or web truss I expect.
Ok, another question:
If I bump it up to 28' wide then I either need to go with piggyback trusses for a 12/12 roof pitch (truss height exceeds 14') or change my pitch to 10/12 or possibly 11/12.
Anyone have experience with piggyback trusses, is it worth the extra cost and hassle?
Cost wise, trusses will be less expensive with labor included, piggybacks or not. You'll have some limitations as to but a good designer/engineer can usually get you what you want.
Keep in mind trusses are not typically very precise, the tolerances are pretty lax. Depending on how nicely finished your space needs to be there is typically a good bit of prep that needs to be done prior to wallboard.
Two of the better truss companies we had around here went out of business in the last year or so. The last set I got a few months ago I had to have two re-made, and even then I wasn't very impressed.
Piggybacks definitely take up alot more time and materials. They need to be scabbed on each leg and a good bit more bracing up top, which is critical. I usually beef the rack bracing on that flat top, it is a failure plane. But if they do what you need to do...
I've been finalizing the floor joist design using TJI joist. However, I am little unsure how to block the joists using TJI blocks as solid blocks. Screenshots below:
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/floorblocking20110218.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/floor_render20110218.jpg)
When using TJI blocks do you need to nail 3/4 OSB to the ends before placing them between joists or can you just put them in without this additional step. Also I have read somewhere on Trujoist documentation that TJI joist do not need midspan blocking. Please advise
No blocking in span unless called out. Blocking may be required over a bearing wall. No plywood is needed, the top and bottom flanges are simply holding the joist vertical. If there are concentrated loads anywhere read up on squash blocking. The main requirement is to support the top, compression, edge. To improve performance put a ceiling on the bottom edge to prevent it being able to vibrate underfoot and to add mass. As you cross a bearing wall or land on an end bearing the top load has to be delivered vertically through the joist to the bottom flange and then to the bearing, that is why the call for blocking over bearings. The loads from above are delivered through the rim or squash blocks and down, not thru the web.
Regular dimensional lumber framing does not require blocking at normal depths, the requirement kicks in at 2x14 IIRC.
The header joists probably require solid fill between the 2 plies and face fill plywood where the header hangers will nail.
Updated pictures of the blocking of the floor joists below:
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/floorblockingdetail20110224.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/floorblocking20110224.jpg)
I was reading online somewhere that whoever you purchase your TJIs through will also supply you with a layout and blocking schedule/details. Is this true, if so who would anyone recommmend I quote this out with, this will probably answer a lot of my questions about how to work with TJIs as floor joists and also serve to double check my span vs. loads.
Also on a different note where I am installing ladder framing betweening roof trusses for both floor and roof top is it recommended to use hangers for all of these connections. Obviously the floor ladder framing should probably use hangers but not so sure on the other members.
There we go. I was tempted to say this morning to let the supplier design the floor and call out the details. This is the contractor desk at the big box or a real building supply. Most truss suppliers also deal with all types of engineered products.
I prefer a 3-1/2" dropped gable truss to allow my ladder framing to pass over it. I generally nail those connections although you could make a very good argument that the ladder framing should be hurricane tied to the dropped gable truss for uplift.
Here is a PDF that details how to install I-Joists.
http://www.woodbywy.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf (http://www.woodbywy.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf)
PS... Your SolidWorks drawings put my SketchUp drawings to shame. They look great.
Thank-you for the link to the PDF documention. I will try the BMC West here locally that I had quote out my roof trusses sounds like they can probably also quote all of the lumber and give me some guidance on the TJI's and the floor.
I thought about using sketch up as I noticed a lot of people on the forums here us it as well but I am more familiar with Solidworks since that is what I use almost exclusively at work. I also could have used Autocad but for 3D modeling I find Solidworks is much better product. However with large assemblies as this one is getting to be it does tend to get a bit sluggish and it needs a pretty decent workstation/PC to handle the load.
I might play around with sketch up some more, I also wasn't sure of its parametric abilities. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade so I like to have everything precisely laid out and everything properly specficied and to code. Maybe I'm going a little overboard on this project but the more I work on it the more I realize everything I don't know and lots of little details are now becoming apparent.
I started drawing in Solidworks as well, and I ran into the same problems that you are. My computer couldn't handle the complex drawings. I was getting frustrated by it, so I switched to SketchUp. I'm not sure what you mean by parametric, but I have found sketchup to be precise enough for what I am doing. Here is a link to my photobucket which has some of the stuff that I have drawn in SketchUp: https://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff455/andrusmw/ (https://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff455/andrusmw/)
Ok, next question. I am looking at a set of plans for a spec home built a couple of years back and I was wondering why it calls out a 9 ft. basement wall then in brackets it says (pour @ 8' 10"). I originally didn't pay too much attention to my basement wall height so it is a really odd ball number (8' 7-1/2"), have to change that. I'm assuming that to go with a round number is more practical since the concrete guys forms are probably standardized heights. However, not sure why this other plan set would say to pour at 8' 10", what am I missing here?
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB-BASEMENT_AND_FOUNDATION_PLAN.PDF (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB-BASEMENT_AND_FOUNDATION_PLAN.PDF)]
Quote from: MWAndrus on February 25, 2012, 07:58:50 PM
I started drawing in Solidworks as well, and I ran into the same problems that you are. My computer couldn't handle the complex drawings. I was getting frustrated by it, so I switched to SketchUp. I'm not sure what you mean by parametric, but I have found sketchup to be precise enough for what I am doing. Here is a link to my photobucket which has some of the stuff that I have drawn in SketchUp: https://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff455/andrusmw/ (https://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff455/andrusmw/)
Your sketchup drawings are really quite nice. I may give sketchup another try in the near future.
Add a sill and the spec come up at just under 9'... I'll bet yours was 9' walls on footings and then a slab was poured. There's no "right" height unless you have something special, an appliance or door that controls dimension, we simply went from 8' to 9' to allow for ductwork and still have decent headroom.
I understand the 4" slab being poured on the footings and the sill plate which adds an extra 1.5". However, it still doesn't make any sense to me why make the wall height at 8'10". If you take into account the slab and sill plate your final inside basement wall height is 8'7.5", which is not the standard 8'1" or 9'1" for most 8 foot and 9 foot ceilings.
Updated the basement wall height to 8'10", still not entirely sure why this is the standard 9' height but it is probably best to stick with convention.
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/basement_render_20110305.JPG)
Concrete, and Roof framing finally figured out. I think we are ready to build this guy...
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/STUDIO_TOTAL_FRAMING_20110312.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/STUDIO_TOTAL_FRAMING_20110311.jpg)
Did you end up buying the property you'd asked some structural questions about in another thread? Is this going to be built there?
Yes, working on the permitting and financing now, the hard part.
Exterior with hardiplank siding, colors are still not finalized though, my wife will have a say in that. We will also need to paint the house to match.
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/RENDER20120312.jpg)
One last change, I've decided to bump it up to 28' from 24' width. In order to do this with a 12/12 pitch requires the use of piggy back trusses. BMC quoted me on the truss below which I promptly drew up. My only beef is the attic width increases to 14 feet, I was hoping to get 15 feet out of the building width increase.
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/truss_28PB.jpg)
The top chords of that truss spring from the wall. Have them cantilever the bottom chords ot to form the overhang and launch the top chords from the overhang. It'll get wider but also taller.
Truss Details (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_TRUSS.PDF)
Electrical (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_ELECTRICAL.PDF)
Floorplans (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FLOORPLANS.PDF)
Elevations (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_ELEVATIONS.PDF)
Basement and Foundation (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB-BASEMENT_AND_FOUNDATION_PLAN.PDF)
Main Floor Framing (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGFLOOR.PDF)
Just the Wall Framing, Wall Framing Details, Roof Framing and Stairs and Porch Details and then its done. Designing a studio/garage is way too much work, but it's fun. :)
I must have missed it in the thread but is there a reason for doing a full height foundation on the back instead of pony wall?
Two reasons for the full basement:
1. The ground slopes so the pony wall would end up being 8 feet in height toward the back anyways.
2. Could always use more storage space.
The attic is a bit small for a photography studio (original plan for the space). So I decided to design a living quarters / apartment instead. Still trying to figure out how to best frame the angled cuts with the walls as you can see from the image below. The 60x42 whirlpool tub those has my wife sold, the bearing wall luckily is centered right underneath it. A tub like that can way almost a 1,000 lbs full.
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/attic_apartment_alt.jpg)
Working out the final framing details:
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS1.jpg)
Alternate floor plan with studio appt. in attic.
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_ALTFLOORPLANS.PDF (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_ALTFLOORPLANS.PDF)
After a bit more studying of the IRC I realized that the alternate braced wall dimensions were wrong for the front garage wall. The code makes sense but building a wood structure is not just putting up a chicken coop anymore. Way too many things to get wrong.
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS1.PDF (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS1.PDF)
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS2.PDF (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS2.PDF)
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS3.PDF (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_FRAMINGWALLS3.PDF)
you are pretty fancy with this stuff! It would be cool to build a framing plan. I'm still not settled in on which software to use... cost vs platform (i'm on a mac, but can run vmware...)
Anyways... what is a drop trim stud?
I don't know if it is the correct terminology or not but its what I call a trimmer or jack stud that is dropped below the sole plate, as you can see in the front framing elevation for both the man door and the garage door. If someone knows of the correct name for it let me know.
Also talked to my HVAC sub-contractor today and we discussed the pros and cons of ducted vs. ductless systems. My wife doesn't like the idea of heating units hanging off of the walls so I guess that settles that. However with the attic trusses there isn't a whole lot of room to squeeze in the duct work so I mocked it up roughly to see if we can make it work. Of course I have no idea how many registers need to go where so its more of an exercise in seeing whether or not we can get the air from the furnace in the basement and distribute it to the attic space. I think it will work.
Anyone with HVAC experience? In particular, ducting difficult construction like this? I would be interested to know what you think. With the way I have it arranged I should only have to soffit a small section in the garage and avoid soffitting in the office space or attic.
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/HVAC_DUCTS1.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/HVAC_DUCTS2.jpg)
(http://design.medeek.com/studio/images/HVAC_DUCTS3.jpg)
fair enough... i don't know what its called either. d* I guess my real question is why does it drop below the plate?
you keep showing off with your drawings... ;)
Don't forget about your return lines.
I'm figuring just one return line from the main floor will work.
It took me almost 2 days to come up with the bill of materials and even so it isn't nearly complete. I thought this project might cost me between $30-$40k, now I'm figuring on more like $100k. Anyone have a good price per sqft. for this type of structure in Western Washington?
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_BOM.PDF (http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_BOM.PDF)
Having never actually framed stairs before I'm not sure about all of the issues I might encounter with the stairs but I've spent almost a week studying up on them.
http://design.medeek.com/studio/documents/SHOP4824-A6DB_STAIRSPORCH.PDF
I actually enjoyed making up the plans so much for my own studio I've decided I'm going to make a business out of it.
My website is still very much a work in progress but tell me what you think:
http://design.medeek.com/plans/samples.html (http://design.medeek.com/plans/samples.html)