Would strapping behind the BNB need some a drainage system if #30 is used. I'm thinking there could be a drainage issue if you nailed the strapping perfectly horziontal.
My understanding is that it is never far to a drain -- 12" board is 6" from center either way to the slot under the batten therefore not much water will stay there. 30# felt behind it should take care of any other moisture that is there-- wrap may have a problem if the water finds a penetration and goes behind it, but even then the slot between the boards should greatly help.
That was an explanation for why very old buildings with this system are still standing in many places.
Thanks Glenn,
So, the strapping would be nailed in over the 30# Would the strapping require any kind of a drainage plane? It was suggested to stagger the strapping and use only 4' lengths. I hope this makes sense. I'm on Mac and have no way to post a drawing.
Better question might be: What's the best way to install 30# felt, strappig and BNB?
I know of a 70 year old house near here that did not even have studs - the boards were the support for the roof - one horizontal 2x4 top, center and bottom. It did not have a foundation so the bottom is rough but the rest of the house is still sound. It also had no tarpaper or vapor barrier of any kind - just board and batten single walls. The plans were from an old extension agent booklet, I heard. Built around 1940 - the guy raised a family there - had a couple kids.
Seems it would take a pretty good slope on the strapping to get drainage started. Not much water could build up from the center of the board to the gap between the boards.. If there was sheathing behind the 30 lb felt it would have more trouble draining to the back but could still drain at the gap under the batten.. I don't really know what would be best in this case - just what I've seen work in the past. These other ideas could be extra insurance also.
Wonder if sheathing, felt, strapping and Bn'B is over kill? The place would have to stand up to Colorado winds, winters and temps at 7800 feet. Pretty cold!
If it makes any "sense" to you, then its not "over kill". At least not in my book.
You might think of vertical furring strips placed on top of felt, directly centered on studs .... then horizontal strips, ... then the board and batten.
I don't think anything is overkill in a Colorado winter.
We went to Marble Colorado (marble for gov. and other use- Tomb of The Unknown - Lincoln Monument - Military grave stones etc). They said they had to warm it up to 20 below zero in the mine to be able to work in the winter.
I would have ceased to function well before that. :-/
I know a woman here whose family lived in Marble for a while--one has gone back, at least for a summer home, so I hear stories from occasional family reunions.
It's a very interesting historic town with an old marble mill in ruins by the river. Ancient parts of buildings, marble columns and machinery interspersed throughout the trees and along the old railroad tracks near the waters edge. They threw away any marble with a slight discoloration -- pure white was all they shipped- there are tons of beautiful marble shoved over the canyon and along the river. The mine was still working a few years ago. They told me I could go to work there for $17.00 per hour.
Improved board and batten siding method.
from: YOUR ENGINEERED HOUSE by Rex Roberts
free online at:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030211Roberts/YEHtoc.htm
see: HOW TO BUILD A WALL at:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030211Roberts/YEH04.htm
This is the board and batten you are thinking of, with the board put on first and the batten showing on the outside. It looks cheap, and is. All 1 do is turn the board and batten around:
Nail the battens to the framing and the siding boards to the battens. By doing that you add another inch to the effective stiffness of the wall, trap another inch of air, provide a free drainage channel for the dew. The whole thing remains cheap, but it looks expensive.
note: Some of his methods have been effective and others have not.
eg: the aluminum foil insulation.
a revised edition by Charlie Wing is available.
see: http://www.amazon.com/Rex-Roberts-Your-Engineered-House/dp/0871315335/sr=8-1/qid=1160137571/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1787687-4574565?ie=UTF8&s=books
Good Info, Nelselgne. I fogot about the reverse board and batten. With the batten on the bottom nrarly the entire wall is a screen wall. I think it could just eliminate all the fooling around with horizontal strapping used over 30 lb felt. Then you would need nailers in the center though I would think.
Thanks for that great link to Rex Roberts' material. Good to know it is on-line. He was someone Ken Kern often went back to.
The reverse board and batt is an interesting option for a drainage plane without strapping. It is naturally draining on both outside and inside.
(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/jraabe/BB.jpg)
PS - Don't expect Roberts' foil insulation techniques to meet modern expectations of energy efficiency! :o. Here is a quote from a reviewer of the revised Rex Roberts book at Amazon "The tin-foil insulation... was a disaster --it did not insulate but it did cause condensate and rotting, even on Mr. Roberts own house."
I'd like to add a point on John's last example , I'd HIGHLY RECOMMEND that the outer board (the wide ones ) be kerfed on the back side (saw grooves even inch or so about 1/4" deep <roughly 1/3 rd> of the boards thickness) to prevent , hopefully, any cupping of those boards . That detail would greatly inhance / promote cupping IMO . Well really not my opinion , just a fact of wood movement / drying / sun effects. Even with kerfs I'd expect some cupping / cracking / failure points . Just the nature of wood that detail would be a max test of wood structure.
.02 cents ;)
Only if you put the saw kerfs in from the correct side?
I should go up and take a picture or so of my neighbor's utility building, built many years ago as a "honeymoon cottage". It's board and board--not board and batten, and I think there was quite a bit of cupping.
Quote
Only if you put the saw kerfs in from the correct side?
Ah generally the kerfs are on the back side , which
generally is the smooth side on a brd & battern style siding.
If the siding was rough sawn both sides the annual rings would be the next / first thing to look at.
Old / good carpenters kerf wide brds , any thing over 6" net , old door sills , wood ones, generally got kerfs even 4 9/16" ones. A door sill is wood in a tough spot wet on top rain , foot traffic, etc . dry ,[highlight]hopefully[/highlight], on the bottom. Repeat this trama often and cupping is higly possible. The same as that B & B siding in John's 2nd example. Coupled with the air space and the nailing pattern that would MTL be used.
Another thing about B&B siding horz. solid blocking should be used ever 2' at most so each nail is in wood , more wood than just the sheathing , 1/2 " OSB / CDX is not enought "bite" for the nails to hold.
Hope that helps explain it better. I do have a cup brd I could take a photo off to show which direction a brd will generally cup toward if some one would like to see that.
The other thing about B&B siding is that you do not want to nail through both the board and the batten. They should be able to move independently. With the narrow batten to the outside you can nail in the space between the boards underneath (not well shown in Roberts' sketch - there is an inch or so between the boards normally).
With the wider board to the outside you would want to nail towards the insides of the batten underneath.
PEG is right, cupping will likely be a larger problem with the Reverse B&B.
QuotePEG is right, cupping will likely be a larger problem with the Reverse B&B
Or what was used up at my neighbors'--more board and board than board and batten.
Note that a wet 1x12 will shrink about 5/8" to 7/8" when dry many times -- the rule around here rather than the exception.
That reverse-board-and-batten looks like a great idea. And I guess you could add yet a second set of battens, on the outside, to recover the original look and harness some of the board cupping.
You could just cut a bunch of 1x4 blocking and nail a piece in the center to keep it from smashing in. You would only put it in the center so you could nail near each side of it without adding to the cupping tendency of the board. Actually with this spacer block in the center it would be best to nail near but not into the batten. The board could still shrink freely and the nails would have an inch in the center free to give with the shrinkage. I would use galvanized ringshank nails since only a bit over an inch will be in the strapping or blocking and the galvanized won't stain the wood. This would still leave you over 3" of space on each side for drainage if you were using 1x12's.
Since the above is probably not the easiest to understand, I did a little sketch - plan view -- looking down from the top.
The gray could be either strapping or blocking between the studs.