Flush toilet for an outhouse?

[NM_Shooter]

Okay... I've mentioned this in my cabin thread.  The guy on the backhoe got a little carried away with the excavation, and I have a pit that is about 6'X6'X6'

In order to use this pit, I'm going to darn near need to build a floor that is 8X8, with some sort of outriggers to keep the sides from causing a cave in.  Luckily it is mostly on rock.

I am trying to figure out how to seal it off to keep moisture from rotting out the underside.  I'm guessing all PT wood, including PT decking.  Since I'm doing this, I started to wonder if there was a way to keep smell / mosquitos to a minimum.  I started thinking about a shutter or something under the seat to seal off the chamber below.  Once I started thinking about that, it was a pretty short jump to thinking about just putting a cheap porcelain commode on there instead.  I could catch runoff into a 10 gallon tank to use as the flush water, and put a tube in for guys to use for #1 business.

The additional water might help things break down a bit too.

Questions...

1)  Does the additional water run a risk of getting pollutants into the ground water?  I have a small stream that is downhill and 100' from the outhouse site.  I would not want to contaminate the stream.
2)  Other than having to winterize the toilet each time we leave, what else do I need to worry about?  Will the extra humidity cause the PT wood to degrade faster? 
3)  With this being much wetter, will the downwind fragrance be worse?  Luckily the outhouse is downwind from my cabin. 

Is this just too weird?  I think the ladies in my family would be much more comfortable with this, but seems like I am getting a bit out of control with this idea. 

[NM_Shooter]

I forgot... another nice amenity would be to have a small sink for hand washing in there as well. 

[muldoon]

why not just go for it?
http://www.eco-nomic.com/septic.htm

[NM_Shooter]

It would cost me $500 to $1k to just cover delivery costs of the backhoe to my property.

[MountainDon]

The easy way to seal that off is to use a good solid toilet seat with some closed cell gaskets materials to provide the seal between the lid and seat and seat and under surface. I've seen a ready made seat like that somewhere but can't for the life of me remember where.   


I wonder how many years it takes for crap to decompose at 10,000 feet with lengthy winters?  Maybe it's a good thing you have an oversize pit. 

[ChuckinVa]

I don't think it will be as bad as you might think. There is a surprising amount of information on the web on building out houses. I think you want to avoid using water  as it will just make a slurry that  will probably be a worse odor than just a conventional out house. Keep a bucket of lime nearby to aid in decomposition. The keys are getting a good seal between the underside of the out house and the ground to prevent water from entering the hole and causing the walls to cave in etc.(use PT wood suitable for ground contact) Then a good seal between the seat and the bench or whatever you design to sit on.You then need to ventilate the pit usually on the outside of the outhouse with a 3" or larger black pipe that with the sun shinning on it provides natural convection and ventilation. Maybe with such a large hole a "His and Hers" might be in order. Another solution to keep odor down is a bucket of sawdust. The ladies might appreciate flushable wipes in lieu of TP and then hand sanitizer in lieu of water to clean up with.

[fishing_guy]

Ditto on the pipe ventilation.  They have those in the state park by our property, and it cuts down a lot on the smell...just remember to site in downwind for the summer prevailing winds...

[MountainDon]

Triple ditto the venting, both in the bottom and out the top.

As for using lime in an outhouse, it is not advisable to use lime unless one is plagued by really bad odors. Lime cuts down on the odor but also kills the bacteria that aid in breakdown. I believe using lime will make the pit fill more quickly as it halts decomposition.



http://www.jldr.com/faqs.html#faqs     click on FAQ #10 for detailed info on lime and the different types

[Kiwi55]

How about an RV type toilet?

[NM_Shooter]

How about an RV type toilet?

That is a great idea.  Very little water if any needed.  Hmmmm... if used dry, it might need some cleanup after each use. 

[dan_summerson]

Okay... I've mentioned this in my cabin thread.  The guy on the backhoe got a little carried away with the excavation, and I have a pit that is about 6'X6'X6'

In order to use this pit, I'm going to darn near need to build a floor that is 8X8, with some sort of outriggers to keep the sides from causing a cave in.  Luckily it is mostly on rock.

I am trying to figure out how to seal it off to keep moisture from rotting out the underside.  I'm guessing all PT wood, including PT decking.  Since I'm doing this, I started to wonder if there was a way to keep smell / mosquitos to a minimum.  I started thinking about a shutter or something under the seat to seal off the chamber below.  Once I started thinking about that, it was a pretty short jump to thinking about just putting a cheap porcelain commode on there instead.  I could catch runoff into a 10 gallon tank to use as the flush water, and put a tube in for guys to use for #1 business.

The additional water might help things break down a bit too.

Questions...

1)  Does the additional water run a risk of getting pollutants into the ground water?  I have a small stream that is downhill and 100' from the outhouse site.  I would not want to contaminate the stream.
2)  Other than having to winterize the toilet each time we leave, what else do I need to worry about?  Will the extra humidity cause the PT wood to degrade faster? 
3)  With this being much wetter, will the downwind fragrance be worse?  Luckily the outhouse is downwind from my cabin. 

Is this just too weird?  I think the ladies in my family would be much more comfortable with this, but seems like I am getting a bit out of control with this idea.

Sorry to resurrect this one, NM_Shooter, yet still I would like to know where I can find the end of your story?
I came across your topic when I was looking for a similar solution, as my ladies (wife and daughter) would certainly prefer to stay comfortable when we're at our summer house.
The cabin and facilities are still in progress, so I'd be extremely grateful if you could share your experience.
I see you've mentioned that you have a cabin's thread, where can I find it? Stupid question probably, but as I'm new here navigation is a bit tricky for me.
Thanks in advance!

- Daniel

[Nate R]

Daniel,
I considered something similar, but found my state specifically called out a regulation that no water could be used/added....basically they had a line of regulation that made sure you didn't use a privy/outhouse with water flushing. I think there must be an assumption it will run the risk of creating more problems, or be TOO comfortable and they don't want 1/2 the county running a waste line into a hole in the ground.

On my own outhouse, I had sandy soil, but had the same issue of the excavator going too far/big. I made cribbing to create the "pit" and a couple of "skids" to keep the building weight resting on undisturbed ground if needed, and the cribbing allowed me to fill soil back in around/underneath.

I also installed active venting....I have a pipe pulling air from the pit 24/7/365. A 1.4 watt fan run off of a solar panel and battery.  My only regret so far is that I wish I had made the building more airtight (bugtight.) Flies can get in. I haven't done it yet, but HAVE considered making a foam cover for the "toilet" to keep that portion "sealed" with just a screened hole for inlet air, and leaving it that way when we're not staying there.

Either way, it's been comfortable for my wife, and 99% odor free, since there's no air from the pit really wafting up. While it's cold in there in the winter, we've been surprised that it wasn't more unpleasant to use in 20 degree weather, which we've done more than once now.

I thought I had posted about this here, but I realize I never did on this topic. I have a thread about my outhouse here: http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_7174_0.html
Hope it's OK for me to post that link here.....I'll be starting my build thread here soon, as I anticipate starting to frame my cabin this year.



-Nate

[dan_summerson]

Daniel,
I considered something similar, but found my state specifically called out a regulation that no water could be used/added....basically they had a line of regulation that made sure you didn't use a privy/outhouse with water flushing. I think there must be an assumption it will run the risk of creating more problems, or be TOO comfortable and they don't want 1/2 the county running a waste line into a hole in the ground.

On my own outhouse, I had sandy soil, but had the same issue of the excavator going too far/big. I made cribbing to create the "pit" and a couple of "skids" to keep the building weight resting on undisturbed ground if needed, and the cribbing allowed me to fill soil back in around/underneath.

I also installed active venting....I have a pipe pulling air from the pit 24/7/365. A 1.4 watt fan run off of a solar panel and battery.  My only regret so far is that I wish I had made the building more airtight (bugtight.) Flies can get in. I haven't done it yet, but HAVE considered making a foam cover for the "toilet" to keep that portion "sealed" with just a screened hole for inlet air, and leaving it that way when we're not staying there.

Either way, it's been comfortable for my wife, and 99% odor free, since there's no air from the pit really wafting up. While it's cold in there in the winter, we've been surprised that it wasn't more unpleasant to use in 20 degree weather, which we've done more than once now.

I thought I had posted about this here, but I realize I never did on this topic. I have a thread about my outhouse here: http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_7174_0.html
Hope it's OK for me to post that link here.....I'll be starting my build thread here soon, as I anticipate starting to frame my cabin this year.



-Nate

Thanks for sharing your setup with me, Nate! I especially liked your venting system.
Also thanks for the warning, when I first started planning I had to check all the regulations twice just to make sure that it's ok to use water in our setup (gladly, it's completely fine in our area). We were thinking of using the cistern (with hand or electric pump to pump water) as a source for flushing. Would be glad to add a toilet to a house, but unfortunately - as with all wishlists - compromises were made. So I had to re-adapt and move it to an outhouse, and that why I'm so desperate for other's solutions.
Gladly it seems that with your help I found a proper option at small cabin community you've mentioned: http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/3_952_0.html by Vince P - that's exactly the setup I'm planning to re-create. He even installed the same model - Sealand 510 - I've been choosing between Sealand and Thetford one as both are often used in RV's so they're quite easy to install.
Now I'm wondering if the OP is registered here, at countryplans.
So thanks again for your assistance! And waiting for your thread so I could follow.

- Daniel