Lets help me get into my own place

[Curtis]

Hi everyone,
Pretty new here, made a few posts I believe but mostly have been reading.

Due to current issues in the world, due to my realization that the general population drives me crazy (I live in a college town), due to me just wanting a cheap means of sustainable living, and the need for privacy, i'm ready to get started on my adventure.

I'm a young dude, twenty at that. I'm not sure at all where to get started. I should be saving money, which is what i'm trying (note: Trying). This winter I plan on working as much as physically possible as I hate the cold, and hate not being to be able to go outside comfortably.

I've just always wanted to build my own place, grow a good portion of my own food and just get away from living in a town or city. Have some land to myself, and just live cheaply, really.

I don't know what this thread is supposed to accomplish, but perhaps i'll get some replies and gain some insight or atleast some more motivation to get started.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Curtis, what part of the country are you in?  Have you checked out land prices in and around your area?  My husband and I bought a cheap old house in a veritable ghost town while he was still in graduate school, and fixed it up to sell a few years later.  We used the profit from it toward our next house, etc.  This time around, we're trying to sell a house up north so that we can settle back in Oklahoma (my home state.)  FWIW, even if you can't afford a lot of land, in a lot of places, you can buy older places on city lots, and a lot of cities will allow you to have chickens, etc.  When we bought our first house, we probably raised about 80-90% of our own food on three city lots, but part of that is due to a long growing season and living in a little old town with few restrictions (we raised our own chickens and eggs) on what you can do with your property. If you hate cold and live in the north, you might look to move somewhere that is a better climate for working outdoors (especially since raising your own food requires working in less than ideal weather often!!)  Another thing I've noticed is true around here is that it is as cheap or cheaper to buy land with septic and well and a crappy trailer house than it is to buy undeveloped land.  Seeing as it is so, you might look into buying land with an old house/trailer on it, and then building your little house.  You can live in the old place while you build and then sell the trailer or freecycle it.  Start with what you can do right now.  Container garden, if possible.  Muldoon has a great plan for makeshift earthboxes, and we built some this year with great results.  Start pricing land in your area, find out what the asking rate is, and look FSBO places.  Decide how much land you want, what % clear and what % wooded, what you want to do with it, how you're going to make a living, etc.  You have to start with a plan.  It won't always work out according to your plan, but at least start with a plan so you know what you're headed for.  Research all you can before you buy a place or jump in over your head.  Do you come from an agricultural background?  If so, you probably know what you're in for.    If not, you might want to find work on a local farm to try to learn what you can before going gung ho.  Anyway, I wish you well on your endeavor.  There are some pretty smart folks on here with a lot of good working knowledge to offer, as well as some wisdom learned the hard way. 

[Curtis]

Thank you for the reply.

The advice about getting land that already has already has septic hookup and perhaps a beat down trailer or something is actually great advice, thanks for it.

I live in Southern, Indiana. Moderate to hot summers, and sometimes horrible winters. Sometimes just cold winters, no snow. Just depends.

I'm not really opposed to building here, as my roots are here and it could be done much easier here than anywhere else, so I guess if do plan on doing something of the sort, here would be the place to do it. Like you mentioned, it could be resold and then I could move elsewhere. I think this is the best option for me.

I've skimmed a few sites, looking at properties and what not. Nothing has been taken too serious because this still seems pretty far off for me.

I just want a place that is mostly wooded. I like my privacy, but I also will have "dirt jumps" (see photo below) where I live, along with a miniramp (see other photo below) on my property, and it would nice to have these not so visible from the road or anything like that.



Dirt jumps, to those who are unfamiliar with them.


And i'm sure my backyard will be eventually become something like that. Mini ramp and trails.

I don't really come from an agricultural background, although I have practice in growing a certain plant and i've learned a lot from that. I mean, I know there is a ton more to know but I have the foundation down to learning more, and i'm pretty into it so I think I could learn quickly.

I hope to learn more, and I hope to get more replies. I'm open to any suggestions. I've thought about building a house simply out of wood, stone, glass and whatever else I can get my hands on. I've seen some pretty neat "recycled" housing, and I think incorporating all of it into one design would be amazing. Oh, and I want a shower that is outside too Well, one inside, but I think having the freedom to shower outside would be far more than amazing. Haha.

[cordwood]

 I have seen houses with double size lots in little towns VERY cheap. But to get away from people it gets harder to find small affordable land as most rural land is in 20 acres or more and you still have to build a house.
Cherokee Ok. had a livable house with garage on a double corner lot for $12,000. College nearby to further your education.

I tried living off the land when I was young and it was easy before I found out all that I was missing,.....Now I don't know that I could go back to it without some "luxury concessions" Those you share the sheets with tend to get tired of bucketing water fairly quickly.

[Curtis]

I'm working on a small house design right now, will post up either tonight or tomorrow.

Just a 1BR home with the possibility of a loft for an office or something. We'll see.

[StinkerBell]

Is that you on the bike with wearing the brown shirt?

[peternap]

I'm working on a small house design right now, will post up either tonight or tomorrow.

Just a 1BR home with the possibility of a loft for an office or something. We'll see.

Look at the plans John has here. He's already taken the work out of it.

[ScottA]

Think small. Uses less nails that way. 

[Curtis]

Is that you on the bike with wearing the brown shirt?

Nah. Just nabbed the photo off the net as to demonstrate the other shenanigans that will unfold once I have my own property.

We trails and stuff back in my old town, but all the locals know about them, they're on private land but people (kids) still go down there and wreck them up. "Ohh, big mounds of dirt, lets tear them up!"

[MountainDon]

My totally practical side says to be as sure as you can be that you really want to build in your home area, before you start. Your mention of not liking some aspects of the weather there makes me think of that. I'm a transplant from the far north to the SW and sometimes wish I'd been talked into the move sooner. But that's me and just my opinion.

Yes, things can be resold, but maybe not on a timetable that suits you and for the price you want, when/if you decide to move. Which is why I say to think about where you want to be. At 20, maybe you need to travel some before making that decision? I mean that in a constructive way, not to discourage a dream. There's a lot that enters into that decision. Family nearby may be something that weights the decision more to some folks and less to others.

... and yes John's plans are a great place to start. The Enchilada kit offers versatility.

[glenn kangiser]

The dirt ramps and jumps could be walls and roof of an underground house -- cost could be next to nothing if you could find some cheap wooded acreage with no building codes.  Build it with Cob and "The $50  and Up Underground House" book..

[Curtis]

You have no idea how badly I would love to live in a partially underground house.

I figured to do that, it would cost more. You're telling me, it would be substantially less? Who is "Cob" (or what)?

I'll definitely take a look into that book. I'll see if the local library has it, and if not, i'll purchase it myself.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Look into cordwood building as well.  Also inexpensive and easy to do on your own.  Straw bale is another possibility.  Or, use a combination of all of the above and cob, etc.

[Curtis]

Thanks everyone, been real helpful.

EDIT:

http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/

Been reading around there. What building material, or technique, would work best with a partially underground home?

[MountainDon]

I figured to do that, it would cost more. You're telling me, it would be substantially less? Who is "Cob" (or what)?

Cob = dirt, straw and other stuff that varies depending on the qualities of your dirt.



http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/cob.htm
http://ilovecob.com/archive/mesa-dirt
http://earthhome.wordpress.com/2007/08/03/25/

Many alternative types of construction can be done cheaper than conventional. In exchange though they are frequently more labor intensive. It helps if one has ready access to machines for the heavy digging. If you have to pay somebody for that the costs go up.

A key phrase there is "no building code", or the willingness to thumb your nose...

[glenn kangiser]

BMX, If you can find a way to not deal with codes, the engineering is done for you in the $50 Underground House book and you seem like a prime candidate...

The roof could be one of your ramps or jumps if done properly.

Our house and other related links
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

http://www.undergroundhousing.com/book.html

http://www.undergroundhousing.com/

http://www.weblife.org/cob/index.html

http://www.beckybee.net/

[NM_Shooter]

Completely go for it.  But you know what?  I second the suggestion to travel a bunch, as cheaply as possible.  And not the tourist places either.  Try to include a third world / emerging country as well.

Building underground may be cheaper, but in terms of the amount of energy you'll need to get it done, it will be huge.  You'll want to hire earth moving equipment to help.  Be careful with stabilization too. 

I think for fast and cheap, You can't beat a single story 2X4 stick house on piers (look at Mtn Don's building thread).  Okay, 2X6 if you need better insulation.  Look for reclaimed stuff, or leftovers.  Craigslist is a great place to get stuff.  The habitat for humanity store is good too.  Volunteer for the framing portion of a habitat build, and bring a camera and a notebook.  Get your friends to show up too. 

There are some great stories of small houses on this forum.  Lots of people tend to overbuild their homes and create a maintenance nightmare (me for instance).  My cabin is going to be a tiny refuge. 

I like your initiative.  Best of luck!

-f-

[Curtis]

Thanks for the support everyone.

I'm now having fun trying to think of what I would like to build. I asked the lady to get me that "$50 Underground House book" for Christmas, but i'll see if the local library has it.

So what would be the best method of construction for the outside walls?

People have suggested cordwood and cob? Strawbail? I have read a bit about each on http://www.greenhomebuilding.com but what would work best for the exterior walls that would be in direct contact with the earth? What would be the best method of providing the best insulation?

A option that I have, if I choose to go that direction, is get in contact with an Aunt and Uncle who retired and moved into a cabin on ranch in Colorado. They own quite a few acres, not sure the exact number but its a fair ammount of land. Perhaps we could work something out, and I could buy some land off of them for cheap. Its up in the mountains, off of a dirt road, and it would be perfect. So thats a possibility. (Although it snows more than I would like) They have bunk houses on the property that perhaps I could stay in during the construction of the home.

[Curtis]

I've aquired a copy of Mike Oehler's $50 and up Underground House book.

This is definitely going to be the type of house I build. This is so me.

I have some great ideas for it. Including a small watch tower that can only be accessed from the inside via a ladder. It would open up to be a circular deck of some sort about fifteen feet up. It would be windowless and roofless, for ultimate view of the land and the sky.

Perhaps a good underground hallway leading to a bomb shelter or secret room of some sort would be in order too. Entrance hidden by a bookshelf, or a false wall. That would be great.

Really, the possibility's are endless. I will most definately keep everyone updated. This winter I plan on trying to save up as much money as possible, and then come spring time be looking at cheap land. If this starts to become a reality, i'll be sure to keep a blog to document the progress.

[cordwood]

Completely go for it.  But you know what?  I second the suggestion to travel a bunch, as cheaply as possible.  And not the tourist places either.  Try to include a third world / emerging country as well.

Building underground may be cheaper, but in terms of the amount of energy you'll need to get it done, it will be huge.  You'll want to hire earth moving equipment to help.  Be careful with stabilization too. 

I think for fast and cheap, You can't beat a single story 2X4 stick house on piers (look at Mtn Don's building thread).  Okay, 2X6 if you need better insulation.  Look for reclaimed stuff, or leftovers.  Craigslist is a great place to get stuff.  The habitat for humanity store is good too.  Volunteer for the framing portion of a habitat build, and bring a camera and a notebook.  Get your friends to show up too. 

There are some great stories of small houses on this forum.  Lots of people tend to overbuild their homes and create a maintenance nightmare (me for instance).  My cabin is going to be a tiny refuge. 

I like your initiative.  Best of luck!

-f-

Ditto!!!
The wife and I have traveled this country a lot in the past 25 years,......Big problem was we stayed in one place to long and each new adventure involved a complete move. If we would have traveled light and did it in a short period of time we probably would be a lot farther along where we are now, Too much wasted time trying to find what we wanted.
When her and I were your age and asked such questions the only ones who heard to answer were ones who had stayed put all their lives,.... So we usually got the same answer, "What's your hurry? You have the rest of your life to figure out what you want."
I hear all the time about people who say if they had it all to do over again they wouldn't change a thing,...........Boy I would!!!!!!!! #1 I would have paid more attention to the great craftsmen I have had the opportunity to work with and #2 I would have taken the time to involve my family more with the beautiful places we have had the luxury of living in. We've passed the North Rim of the Grand Canyon twice while moving all our stuff, The result was everyone was tired a didn't want to stop, Not even a Griswald "Yep, There it is", No t shirt or even a spoon.
The biggest regrets I have in life so far are not the things I did but the things I didn't do!

[glenn kangiser]

I've aquired a copy of Mike Oehler's $50 and up Underground House book.

This is definitely going to be the type of house I build. This is so me.

I have some great ideas for it. Including a small watch tower that can only be accessed from the inside via a ladder. It would open up to be a circular deck of some sort about fifteen feet up. It would be windowless and roofless, for ultimate view of the land and the sky.

Perhaps a good underground hallway leading to a bomb shelter or secret room of some sort would be in order too. Entrance hidden by a bookshelf, or a false wall. That would be great.

Really, the possibility's are endless. I will most definately keep everyone updated. This winter I plan on trying to save up as much money as possible, and then come spring time be looking at cheap land. If this starts to become a reality, i'll be sure to keep a blog to document the progress.

I thought you seemed like the type that would like it.  Note it shows you how to do it without treated wood using plastic to protect the wood.  A change by Mike is that he now recommends an EPDM roof membrane for better protection.  He also has some video's that expand on the book..  I can help fill in the blanks.  We have been in ours for about 6 1/2 years.

You can start a thread here in owner builder projects to keep track of it for you and your friends as well as a place to get advice. 

[Curtis]

Thanks.

How could you go about finding local building codes online? What should I be looking for, to know what I need to know when looking for land / where I look for land.

How severely can it differ from one area to the next?

I may post some plans up tonight.

[glenn kangiser]

There are different rules all over - some such as just find a secluded spot and stay under the radar, but most of the more densely populated areas have codes.  You just have to research the areas you may plan on building in.

What area are you looking into? Possibly some members will have some info.  You can possibly get in touch with the County offices in different areas to check what permits are required.  Ask the public servants about it...make them earn their living....

[MountainDon]

Some counties have pretty much everything you need, rules and regs, forms to download, fee schedule, etc all online. Some don't. Some are in between. Once you have an area picked out try a Google for the county development office, or county building codes..... Or use the telephone. There can be vast differences. If there weren't differences between counties or municipalities the bureauc-rats would have trouble justifying their staffing.

[cordwood]

Some counties have pretty much everything you need, rules and regs, forms to download, fee schedule, etc all online. Some don't. Some are in between. Once you have an area picked out try a Google for the county development office, or county building codes..... Or use the telephone. There can be vast differences. If there weren't differences between counties or municipalities the bureauc-rats would have trouble justifying their staffing.

Depending on the proximity of the property to Federal lands the Feds. can impose Regs. as well. They tend to frown on dirt movement without mucho safety nets uphill from water features such as impoundments and rivers.
Bordering a Nat. forest is cool till they think your getting away with something, ( Black SUVs never come one at a time! )