Unbiased Heating Information Source?

Started by tjm73, October 14, 2005, 11:11:37 AM

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Amanda_931

#25
Might be able to build your own masonry stove.  which is pretty much what that rocket stove/cob bench is.

Or get someone to build one for you following the instructions in Evans' book--pretty complete, I think--while you do the same for the someone?

Or a masonry stove kit or plans from somebody with the MHA (masonry heater association)  They have a nice website, by the way.  We've looked at it here, I'm pretty sure.  The links page has one to codes and masonry stoves.

http://mha-net.org/

maybe not a free-standing wood stove, though.


Amanda_931

I lied.

Main page, not links page on the Masonry heater guys' web-site.

Lots of links there too.


glenn kangiser

#27
I was given a wood stove insert the other day- from my experience building wood stoves about 30 years ago and things I have read since,  I knew it couldn't work well.  Fortunately, with a cutting torch and a welder I can make it into a decent heater for my living room/hypocaust.  I am only going to make it for a portion of the room, but it's something not too many other places have and I don't want my place to be like everyone else's. ;D

I want to modify it so it will recirculate some of the exhaust gasses to really bring up the temperature of the fire.  This method was used on the old oil salamanders - or smudge pot orchard heaters.  I think an elbow catching the gasses and piping them down near the air intake ought to do the trick.  Any thoughts on that?  Seems it should work with higher pressure at the chimney and suction at the air intake.  Maybe I should take it out and play with it in the shop before I put it in the house.  The stove, that is. :-/
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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Daddymem

#28
 Glenn :P

We have thought about the Kachelofen like these guys did in their FirstDay: http://www.oldpoppy.com/heating.htm
but a masonry stove might make more sense room wise, perhaps one like these: http://www.vermontwoodstove.com/

Scary prices on each, the ROI  is the issue.
Où sont passées toutes nos nuits de rêve?
Aide-moi à les retrouver.
" I'm an engineer Cap'n, not a miracle worker"

http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/

glenn kangiser

Similar things can be done with cob, however, you probably would have a hard time getting a blessing from the building gods and your safety would be dependant on your own building skills.  

Most codes won't allow stoves without UL approval stamped on them.  I'm not sure about hand built masonry fireplaces.  Seems I have read a bit about guidelines in the code somewhere.  Maybe someone can enlighten us.

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Billy Bob

Masonry heaters are exempt from EPA regulation, and for similar reasons cannot be UL tested, (how do you bring a site built, 8,000 pound heater into the lab for testing? ;D)
Here is a link to the Masonry Heater Association site, which has a lot of good info:
http://mha-net.org/docs/position2.PDF

I think, for the Builder's Cottage, I'll be looking for a small catalytic stove, unless somebody knows how to build a really small masonry  unit that would work ;)
Bill

glenn kangiser

It can be done with cob, Billy Bob,   that rhymes-unintentional though--  :-/

You would be responsible for your own safety though.



This is a cob (masonry) oven in my front porch area that is built from local clay, sand and straw.  Kiko Denzler wrote a book on clay ovens that may help.

http://store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapbuilderbooks/builyourearo1.html
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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Billy Bob

That's one cool cat, daddio.( Am I dating myself a bit? ;))
Thanks, Glenn.  I appreciate the whimsey in your design.
I think I might just give it a go, but will experiment with an OUTDOOR oven first, as a safer test of my (as yet) unknown skill.  (Had a house burn down once (electrical fault, and no, I didn't install it!), which makes one cautious.)
I could envision one in the form of King George, which would be charged by shoving the logs up his...  A-a-ask me no questions, I'll surely tell no lies. ;)
Bill

glenn kangiser

If you do the outside one, and it is unstabilized cob, you will want  to put a roof over it to protect it from the direct rain.  Sides are not much of a problem.  If you do King George II may I come and help throw logs in. ???

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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jonsey/downunder

Crikey Glenn,
I was just reading your other post, and I think I have the solution. I reckon all we gotta do is prod you with a politician and we would get enough steam to keep us all warm next winter. ;D
jonesy.
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

glenn kangiser

Sorry about that, Jonesy.  I was just in to the building department a couple weeks ago to get a permit for my customer.  The red tape, ineptness and wiseacre attitude of some of god's representatives got me a little wound up.  I was almost crawling the walls as I sat and listened to two separate individuals chew out the plan checker.  No action and not even an attempt to tell me how long a wait I may have.

Poly's -don't get me started again---they, the police and the building officials  are all public servants, but they forget that and equate themselves with god's right hand man. :-/  

Okay -Jonesy, I just erased the next two paragraphs. :-/  After a visit to the bureaucrats and seeing the consistent failure of the system at the expense of the public who try to believe in it, it takes a few weeks for the boiler to cool down. -- actually it doesn't cool down.  --- You're right - I may be a source of unlimited free energy. ;D
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

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jonsey/downunder

Don't you worry about it Mate,
We have our own share of those ratbag's down here as well. I'm sure they have a special department that sits around all day thinking up ways to frustrate us all. From time to time, they need reminding who they work for. You keep kicking Mate; I'm right behind you. :D
jonesy.
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

GaryGary

Hi,
You might want to add solar space heating to your list?  It won't provide all your heat, but what it does provide is "free".

Information on many free DIY solar space heating projects here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm


glenn-k

Tons of good info there, Gary.  Thanks for reminding us.




Amanda_931

Glad to have the Missouri Masonry link, Chuck.

Not sure if I've posted the link for the book on the Rocket Stove/Cob Bench.

While the heat in a rocket stove is quite high, the heating is slow and long-lasting.

It's been installed in a handful of very tiny houses indeed, as well as some bigger ones.

Instructions in the book should be pretty good if Evans--and others who proofread the book--have been making them for ten years or so.  

http://www.cobcottage.com/node/113

These take up a lot more floor space than that Missouri Masonry stove.  But if you've buried your pipe deep enough in the cob bench you can sleep on a heated bench--with something like a wool pad for comfort?

tjm73

#42
If you had an efficiently well insulated realitivly small house, say between 1000 and 1500 square feet total how would you estimate how much fire wood you should have on hand to heat for a season with an appropriatly sized in the house wood stove?  6 cord?  10, 15?  ???  And what is a reasonable price for a cord of sutible firewood?  What's the best way to store firewood?  Elevated off the ground and covered with a tarp or somethign similar I suspect.

glenn-k

#43
In Oregon, in an uninsulated house, my granddad used to put in 10 cord per year.  They had around 4 months of fair weather.

It varies depending on area - I would guess 4 to 10 cord - I use 4 here on a bad winter.

Split and stack wood in a covered area so air can circulate. It is best if it is very dry - at least a year - splitting small makes it dry faster and burn more efficiently, although you may feed it less more often.

Dry oak is about $180 to $240 per cord here if you buy it- nobody said that was reasonable though. :-/

jraabe

#44
My approximately 1500 sf story and a half saltbox has been heated since 1983 with local wood. We get a mix of alder and fir cut, split and delivered for about $150/cord - used to be $100 in 1998. That's green - we order and stack it in a covered wood storage area under a deck in the spring and it's ready when heating season starts in October.

The home is well insulated (but not super-insulated) and has some solar inputs. We go through about 2 cords a year.

http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/55.html

We are in the cool marine climate of Puget Sound, WA.


tjm73

Well I'm in Upstate NY and need heat from around middle/end of Sept. through mid-May.  Rest of the year heat generally isn't needed.

The house I want to build would be under 1500 sq-ft and would be double exterior walled and super insulated and have high efficency windows and doors.

I don't think I'd use much wood in this scenario.