smallest house for couple and child

[chrispoponak]

Hello,

(edit 1) - I accidentally hit the enter button. Anyway, my wife and I are young (26 & 24) and we have no children, we're just planning on having one. We currently live in Europe and we are waiting until we move back to the US to have children. My father has a plot in eastern Ohio that he offered to me and I am seriously considering it. I protest in general to the excesses of the contemporary american lifestyle, and I am excited for the opportunity to build something small and efficient. I have learned to live lightly. When I consider most housing options available, all I see is neighborhoods of "McMansions" that have way more than my family needs (or can afford for that matter). I have always been inspired by the compact and efficient. I drive a Toyota Echo and I use a palm pilot with a cell phone instead of a computer. I don't own a boat, I have an inflatable kayak with a sail rigged on it.

I am particularly fond of Ross Chapin's designs, and I also like Jonesy's designs for the subb 200 sq ft contest.

Anyway, I am thinking that I could build a two story cottage with two bedrooms, a small 3/4 bathroom, a dual use washer / dryer (in kitchen) and have this dwelling be no larger than 350 sq ft. The bedrooms could even be lofts with some measure of privacy. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris

[PEG688]

[size=14] Hello to you as well

More info about life style , age of child , daily requirements, do you need / want a laundry in the house /kitchen size/ special requirements:IE handi capped etc .

Good luck , PEG  [/size]

[PEG688]

[size=12] Seems to me you know pretty much what you need    Based on your edited post all you need to decide is which plan to pick . Down sizing a plan should be easier as all spans will be shorter , so other than stairwell head room and lenght for stairwell run you should be good to go.

 Have you looked at John's plans on this site?  He'll work with you I'm sure to down size / tweak for your needs.

 Good luck , PEG       [/size]

[John Raabe]

You really need to have a site or at least know your climate before thinking too much about the house plans.

While you might find 350 sf could work for 3 people in Hawaii, you would likely drive yourselves crazy in Minnesota (or Washington!)

Look at some of the ideas in the Enchilada kit where you might design a cluster with a core building and either additions or smaller outbuildings that could be built later and tied together with decks or patios. This outlying house might be built when your future child is big enough to outgrow the loft (and can swing a hammer!)  

[Amanda_931]

The other day I ran into a very old Mother Earth News story by a guy who was raised in a sheep wagon with both his parents and two or three siblings.  

They really enjoyed it in the summer.

We're talking seriously small--something in the 6 x 9 foot range.

[chrispoponak]

I looked at shelter-kit.com and they have a plan that is a 16 X 24 loft house. It looks like a small Levittown-esque Cape Cod. 2 bedrooms, approx.  750 sq ft. I know that it could be done with less space. They also offer a 16X16 basic loft house but they only recommend that it be one bedroom.

I am looking to settle in southeastern Ohio, so we are looking at "lake effect snow" in the winter, and hot & muggy summers.

[Amanda_931]

My dislike of lofts and ladders is well known around here.  I think you should consider it, but feel free to put it down to a personal problem.

Do remember, however, that a baby will have to grow in to as well as out of a loft.  (and ask some woman who's tried it how it feels to climb a ladder and swing out onto a platform several times a day when 7+ months pregnant)

Take a look at how travel trailers organize their space. My 200 square footer is advertised to "sleep six" or maybe only five. But that's if you can put one or two on a five-foot long couch that for two will have to be folded out right next to the sink--it'll still only be five feet long, and lower the dining room table, arranging the cushions so as to form a more or less excruciating mattress.  It's fine for a minimalist single person (I'm not that) or a very couple-ly couple.  But privacy, one's own space, would soon become an issue.  Especially if there's a kid.

Take a look at Christopher Alexander's A Pattern Language.  If you want a new copy (rarely much discount in the used market) go through the recommended books section from the main page here.  Or for a taste of what it's about Alexander's (at last report still incredibly disorganized) web-site.

This is the link to the 5-step process for designing a small house for one--hard to find from the main page, and very useful.  But one of his important patterns is space for both in a couple.  

I have friends who believe that they have stayed married (after several marriages and long-term relationships) because they took that to heart.  Each has a space where he and she can leave a letter half-written, or a pump disassembled, when they cook or eat dinner at the table.  They can also have four people over for dinner, a few more for a party--even on a rainy winter evening.

http://www.patternlanguage.com/smallhouse/begin.htm

I think you could be happy in 400 square feet.  But even with that much room you would have to design it very carefully.  And not, for instance, collect books or make quilts inside "the house."

[Sassy]

Amanda, thanks for that link... I know John had mentioned it several times before but I'd never looked at it.  Gives you a systematic way of thinking about things & planning.  I think about all that & what I want but in a haphazard way.

I guess one of my biggest contributions(besides clean-up & grunt work, etc) is telling Glenn what I want & why I want it (he may not always think so..   )  He may see things a different way & I'll tell him what I want to see - then we look at what can work, whose idea would look the best etc.  There's been times when he wanted to build something a certain way because it would work out best outside on our land but I'll tell him, no, it blocks my view, because I am thinking more about what I see when I am in the house.  That is what I've always liked about our other house... Glenn landscaped it so beautifully... put brick pathways around, a circular brick patio, elevated garden areas, ponds,& trellises, pole buildings with very tall roofs, kinda catty-corner (?) for carports so they blend right in.  Every window I look out of has a lovely view & when walking outside, you go from one delightful area to another.  Don't know how else to explain it.  That is why I still like that house, but our cabin has just as many whimsical, wonderful areas, if not more - just a whole different look & there is still so much more to do.  I like both places, but know I'll be content to give up the house in the valley when the time comes because the cabin is entirely our creation.  (do I sound corney or what??   )  

So, whatever size - when we 1st started living in the cabin part-time, it was 8x8 ft with plastic for 2 walls, dirt floor, homemade bed with landscape netting attached across it where we put our 1" camping pad & sleeping bags...didn't know if it was going to break with both of us on it   we thought it was so cozy after staying in the RV part of the horse trailer (where we had queen size bed, shower, sink, stove, microwave, portapotty, heater, air conditioner...) Then we opened up the 8x8 section next to it & thought we were really living, there was actually someplace to sit besides the bed!  And, as John would say, it has just "evolved".  

Remember that story about the wife complaining that the house was too small?  So the husband kept putting the farm animals inside the house.  Then one day he took them all out &  the wife thought the house was huge!  Don't get any ideas, Glenn  :-/.   We already have 3 cats - one a survivor from being shot, the other survived an attack from coyotes - both strays; & the one my son gave me - the Angora Persian who won't have anything to do with me if Glenn is around...  :-/  & we used to have Cupcake, our goat, who thought she was a person & tried to follow us into the house any chance she got.  

Like Amanda said, you have to take into consideration the ease & accessibility for the pregnant wife, safety for the child, storage, collections of books etc.  Or you can end up like us, we just keep extending or building outbuildings... I think we finally have the basic size of the house, tho  

[dail(Guest)]

Chris,

Coming from a poor background, I'm used to dealing with small spaces. The cottage that I'm building currently, reflects that. (See the projects section of this site.)

I'm curious though, "why do you and your wife, necessarily want to 'live' in a small space?"
I know you've given some reasons for it, but they seem vague. For example;
1. What is you and your wife's over all physical size? That will affect how much dead space is to be placed around furnishings, and how big the furnishings need to be. That will affect overall house size.
2. Do you cook from scratch? Or, from pre-made meals? That will determine kitchen size.
Your only real set back will probaly be in dealing with some of the building depts. As some have a minum size requirement.
Anyway, do your hobbies and interests require much space? That will be another thing to consider.

[tjm73]

If you read the international building code that most municipalities have adopted you will find that code satisfying stairs are universaly required for upper living spaces.  If you are going to have an upstairs, you will need and should only consider code stairs, IMO.

Before you make any decisions on what you want to build I highly suggest you find out the building regulations for the location you are looking to build on.  For example, in my area their are a couple minimum living space requirements.  You can not build a perminent residence at 350 sq/ft in NY for example, not in my area anyway.  I seriuosly question your thoughts of a 350 sq/ft permanent home.  That's smaller than my apartment and quite frankly it's too small for just me and my cat, much less a wife and a child.  I worry you are not being realistic about what you will need.  I wouldn't consider anything less than roughly 3 times what you have stated.  1000+ sq/ft.  At 26 I thought I could live in a space roughly the size of my car interior.  At 33 my life has exceeded the space of a small apartment (about 460 sq/ft) and I don't have a family yet.  And I'm not much of a packrat.  I live pretty light.

Living small is great, but living crampt will suck.

[gmac0518]

I would ask you wife what size home she would be willing to live in.  She may not be as willing to be pregnent and stuck in a small space.  Let her have what she wants for the house, that way you can stay married.

[bartholomew]

My thoughts are that if you want to try living in a very small house then go for it. Just plan for future expansions in case you discover you need more space than you thought or your needs change.

[lodestar]

I think every house should be built with the idea that someone who is handicapped may eventually live there...and it may be you.

[Amanda_931]

Yep.  One of the reasons I have for disliking lofts that are in daily use.

[chrispoponak(Guest)]

Well I've thought about it more and the only plausible justification for living in such an extremely small space is because I think that it would be cool. I know, lame reason. I still have contempt for having more than you need, and I am extremely reluctant to move in to anything larger than 1000 sq ft total. I just really cannot see the purpose of it. I am taking a more serious look at the Victoria cottage. If i can build it for $75 / sq ft, then I should be OK.  

[Amanda_931]

My better designed than built travel trailer is pretty cool.  And it came with a kitchen (the kind with 6" of counter space, propane/grid powered refrigerator, three-burner stove with small oven and range hood, microwave) Air Conditioning, lots of nice windows, heat, bed with a dreadful mattress, bathroom, very little storage, water tank with what I'm told is a wimpy pump (I've not had running water for five years, doesn't have anything to do with the trailer, just where it's parked)

Travel trailers can go down in price quickly as they age (although there are plenty of people who think that they should be priced by how many times they used it--e.g., once).  And might be your cheapest way to get on your land.  In 2000 there were still some name brand trailers in which out-gassing made my--and the unfortunate salesman's--eyes water.  Jayco and the Gulfstream brands seemed to be OK.

To get mains electricity I had to put in a septic tank (unused, because of the water issues, although I couldn't run hose from the black- and gray-water tanks into the septic tank from where it is parked right this minute, could have if I'd moved it up 6 feet, which, it turns out, would not have interfered with parking and traffic.  Hand emptying sewer tanks is generally pretty nasty--greywater turns into blackwater in a couple of days).  

[PEG688]

 [size=12] Another thing you can do is apply water , in this case ya might have to haul it from the lake / pond.  If a hose is avaible a slow trickle for a few hours , poking holes in the top crust so the water sinks in , will help.

 This island John and I live on , he's on the south end , is nicked named THE ROCK , if that tells you anything

 Good luck , PEG   [/size]