After what seems like forever, spring arrived, and despite terrible weather, the project is in full swing. The camp came with a shell for a 16 x 24 guest cabin. While my neighbor/mill owner/builder works on the main camp, dad and I have been staying weekends at the guest cabin. Despite rain every weekend, our spirits weren't dampened.
After much thought and consultation with the local builder his engineer, I opted for a permanent wood foundation. As previously noted, he was against using posts. He's built dozens of houses, cabins and most of the stores in town and noted that in his experiences with PWF's versus the piers, the PWFs have outlasted the piers in almost every case. Moreover, no cement can be delivered this deep into the woods (2 miles of twisting trails). Traditional post/piers are subjected to terrible frost heave leaving many local cabins visibly leaning and their posts pointing in every direction. PWFs, when done correctly may last longer than piers and give me the benefit of a 6ft basement. Cost on the 20 x 40 was $7000 versus $3800 for piers. I'm happy because I have storage space, ease of pipe install, electric, etc. I will insulate a water tank and place it in the basement.
Note the truss design on the PWF works by tension and stabilizes with the load of the structure above it. A ice/water shield covers then entire wall which rises 2ft above surface grade. Under the footing, 2 ft of crushed stone leads into fenestrated pipes and down towards the creek. No standing groundwater should accumulate around the foundation. Under 6 inches of crushed stone on the floor, is a superweight plastic barrier. The water seen in the photo is because it's pouring out, and there is only a deck, no roof yet.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-27_16-37-20_621.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/049.jpg)
View from front with temporary steps.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/031-1.jpg)
View from creek.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/054.jpg)
My log trusses ready
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-28_10-53-09_834-1.jpg)
My floor joists
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-28_10-55-16_191-1.jpg)
Roofing insulation
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-28_10-58-50_488-1.jpg)
Guest cabin 16 x 24 unfinished interior
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-29_09-45-55_741.jpg)
Building a set of loft stairs and railing. Loft railing is outdoor premade $29 a length at Lowes.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/068.jpg)
Thanks to all of you for your advice, suggestions, help and inspiration. I'll post as the framing comes together. Roof should be on in two weeks. Seeing it in your mind is easy, getting it right on paper, frustrating and time consuming. Seeing it come alive as you walk the framed deck, Priceless!
Doc
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
Looking good [cool]
Good luck.
Adirondoc,
looking good! I did have a question- Why didn't you go 8 ft. high on the PWF walls? Was there an engineering problem with the extra 2 feet? I am still considering PWF versus poured concrete for my foundation?
Looking great, I am also looking at doing a pressure treated foundation and am interested in how you did it without a cement pad poured. Has your builder done that in the past and has he had any issues with the walls moving in from the pressure of soils on the outside of the foundation? I got an estimate on all materials for the PWF today and it came in at $4,000,. I was also thinking that I may be able to install the cement pad at a later date?
congratulations.
It looks great. I think you are the first full depth PWF posted. Great to see. Keep those pictures coming, it is great.
looks great
Thanks, guys. According to my builder, some choose to pour a concrete pad and finish the floor, but for me, the basement was an afterthought and concrete is unavailable this deep in the woods. The crushed stone is typically used in camps in this area and serves my basic needs just fine. 5 foot walls were recommended as basic, but I went for 6ft for more usable room. 8 feet was also an option, but would have led to more expense and a deeper hole. The exterior foundation walls are 2 ft above the surface. Framing calls for 12 foot exterior walls to allow for 4ft walls in loft. Since the roof pitch is 12:12, I wanted to keep the overall cabin's height as low as possible and didn't really need the extra room down under. I suppose if height were not an issue, or was to advantage, we could have gone 4ft above grade to the decking.
The builder, who happens to be my neighbor and mill operator, was born here. He's skilled at furniture, cabinetry, log, post and beam, and stick building, having built most of the town's municipal and commercial buildings and a good amount of the homes here. His favorite cabin design mixes hand-hewn logs where visible, some post and beam elements for hidden support, and basic stick for 16 inch centers to ease insulation and nailing. Roofing and flooring upstairs will be tongue and groove white pine from my own timber, visible in between the logs and means no finishing is necessary. I have enough yellow birch to mill for my floors. Knotty pine for walls. Today I chose to increase the 8ft porch to 10ft deep for maximum living space. After all, the porch out back facing the creek is where I'll be spending a good deal of time.
As for PWF problems, John, my builder swears by the permanent wood foundations. He told me when done properly, he hasn't seen a single case of a PWF failing , some in the area being built over 30 yrs ago. Those that did weren't done properly or to spec. I must admit, I was skeptical at first, but I trust his 50 yrs experience, and have been very happy with what I've seen. If anyone has any specific questions or needs specs, I'll ask him next week and post the reply.
Nice to see a hole in the ground becoming a dream fulfilled.
Doc
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
I like the appearance of the timbers/logs.
I'm wondering about how the 12 foot high wall tops are to be tied together with the roof framing, loft floor, et al. Some questions on the PWF too but I'll have to revisit here as I need to address a trailer issue here at home first.
Not picking on you Doc, but I do have questions I would be asking the builder.
I believe PWF (permanent wood foundations) can work too. I have questions that came to my mind as I viewed those pictures though. Some questions may be simply because the images shown do not show all aspects of what went into the foundation. That would cover things like did the builder use a 2x footing plate under the bottom plate of the foundation wall? In all the Southern Pine Council information I've read, there is the usual bottom plate as used in any stick built wall and then there is a wider footing plate under that.
All the wood should be stamped as being foundation grade; not the usual material found at Big Blue and Big Orange. True foundation grade wood products have no heartwood as the chemicals do not penetrate heartwood properly. Foundation grade pressure treated wood is also re dried after treatment to bring the moisture content back into the correct kiln dried range (18% or less for plywood and 19% or less for lumber). Standard PT wood, more often than not, comes quite saturated. I recall being splashed on one occasion when I was driving nails into freshly treated wood.
I've never seen diagonal braces like those illustrated in any of the PWF information I've read. The foundation wall bottoms are usually either restrained by infill (inside the wall) to balance the backfill (outside the wall), or by a poured concrete pad or a framed wooden floor (joists and decking to form a bottom level diaphragm,) It's not to keep your feet dry so much as to be certain that the wall bottoms don't move. When a concrete slab is used the horizontal loads created on the wall bottoms by the backfill is evenly spread out. With diagonal bracing every 8 feet or so, a series of point loads are created which generate further stresses. As I'm not an engineer I'm not saying his method won't work. But I can say that anyone looking at this as something to be emulated will most likely run into difficulties if they have to build to code approved practices because this is not a prescribed process. I also question why it appears the diagonal bracing is applied to only the two long walls and not the end walls. Those end walls are subject to the same forces created by backfill along the long walls. At least in the photos end wall bracing is not apparent.
Another question centers on the center line supports. Telescoping steel columns like those are, to my knowledge, not approved anywhere in the USA for a permanent support. They are approved for temporary supports while permanent structure is placed; think renovations as a prime area of temporary use. There are one piece steel columns that are okay for permanent use. They will have labels with reference to to an ICC-ES Report and be three inches or more in diameter as the IRC specifies.. So I'm not sure about those in the picture. More than likely those are up to the job, they just don't pass code requirements.
More than the tele-posts themselves I wonder about the "footings" the builder used for those posts. The steel posts bear on 2x laid flat on the ground. There is no evidence of a prepared footing as was done under the perimeter walls. Once again, in all the PWF info I've seen, they illustrate footings similar to what was used under the perimeter walls for all interior supports. Anyone viewing this as an example to be used as a pattern in a code area will, IMO, have problems getting something like this past the inspection process.
It's hard to tell from the pictures what the upper end of the tele-posts are bearing on. Is there a beam running down the building center? Do the steel posts support that beam? Are the floor joists then supported by that beam? Or is that a 2x laid flat under the joists? There appears to be a 2x laid flat, but it is not clear. ??? There also appears to be some 2x3's (?) but I can't really tell what is there. These are details my inquisitive mind wants to know.
Once again I ask these things as questions to be considered by readers who may be using this as a pattern for a future build. And once again; I am not an engineer but these are questions I would be asking.
I believe there may be others contemplating a Permanent Wood Foundation for their projects. If there is any interest, we (my engineer friend and I) could develop a topic. Email or PM me or post a request in the IRC section.
Here is a link direct to the Southern Pine Council PWF Design and Construction Guide http://southernpine.com/downloadpdf.asp?filename=ref400.pdf
G/L to all
Now I have myself wondering what's going on with those end foundation walls. In the first image the ground at the far end does not seem to have the same pattern of crushed rock as that down the long sides. ??? My imagination?
Don
You ask alot of great questons and I have read all the material from the southern pine council and once I saw the way this PWF is set up I would like to do it the same way. My thought is to set it up like this and if there seems to be any movement in the future I could put in the pad to stop movement.
I have talked with my building inspector and he is on board with the foundation as shown in the NYS code book.
There is a bottom (Footer) of 2 x 8 material and the walls will be built with 2 x 6 material.
I will go over the way this was completed with the building inspector and let you know the results.
I plan to start in a couple of weeks.
I'm no builder, Don, but I did ask plenty of questions. I'll ask some of the other questions you pose when I see him next week. There's a wider footing under the visible plate as you noted. It looked like a 2x10 to me. Crushed rock is evenly distributed throughout as far as I saw but shading and wetness could play a camera trick. It was raining cats and dogs and dark in the basement and my cellphone didn't do justice.
All lumber for the PWF was brought in from Utica as it had to be special .61 spec foundation grade wood, as you noted. Diagonals were put to keep walls rigid while the deck was put on above. John noted that PWF's risk movement until the inward forces are stabilized by downward load. Walls are said to be held in place by rods (extending outward?), and by several cross beams below, and by the deck above.
Inspector has been to the site twice and will need to sign off on each stage of the project before the next is started. So far so good. I'll gather much more info on my next trip up next weekend. Thanks for the "heads up". Good builder or not, it's always good to be inquisitive and let them know that you're watching what they do, such as the steel supports.
Cheers,
Doc
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
Building codes are not only complicated (and getting more so), they are evolving as well. According to some information unearthed tonight with the help of Don_P those temporary braces combined with appropriately designed pins or "soil nails" are current code. So I guess that is good news. :D It might have helped to know the diagonal braces were of a temporary nature and that there is or will be, a pinning system used. As it stood I couldn't understand how it could stand. Sometimes I worry myself too much, but better safe than sorry.
Still curious about the center line supports though. Or are they something temporary as well?
References used are in Chapter 44 IRC 2009 VA. American Forest and Paper Association, PWF Design Specifications, PWF-07. So far I can't find a free online version. However, the curious can download a copy below.
Funny you should mention the posts, Don. I just noticed my father's 3200 sq ft home has 6 telescoping columns in his basement, turned upside down so as to render them inoperable by the homeowner. His home was built as part of a 6 year old subdivision. Are you sure telescoping posts are not up to code in every state?
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
hell the 50 or so year old house I grew up in had telescoping columns...
Don
you mentioned "soil Pins" is that just a 2' pc of rebar? i was thinking of pinning it every 4' or so.
I believe Don is up on the mountain for a day or so, I don't want to leave you in suspense.
When Don emailed asking me to take a look at this posting I also saw the telescoping posts. I saw the differences between this PWF and the typical and then went through the standard trying to find the method he might have used. The assumption and term "soil nails" was mine based on a comment and an exception in the commentary. It is not prescriptive, if used, it would be the result of engineering. New land owner, this is not something for a DIY to design, it is outside of prescriptive code and over my head if you leave out a floor system. This was not intended to pick on Doc or to cause a rift with your builder. I had actually said I wasn't going to post to this thread. I don't like critiquing a builder's work in front of his client. We have folks here who might want to "copy cat" without having full knowledge and so there is another concern here which I think weighs heavier. So here is the proper path as I see it: If you put in a basement floor, follow the guidelines, if you don't put in a basement floor and have unbalanced fill, get an engineer. Think about the costs... use your $ towards a nice floor if at all possible.
I don't believe telescoping posts are allowed anywhere as a permanent column, I have seen alot of them in service. Just to be clear on what I'm calling a telescoping post; This is the type where there are two tubes, one slides over the other and pins are inserted to hold them in the correct range. There is an adjustment screw on the end. These have a much lower load rating than a solid pipe column with an adjusting screw, what we call a BOCA post here. BOCA was a code authority before the ICC and this type of column has a legacy ICC-ES number. If you look on the packaging for every telescoping post I've seen they do not have an approval listing and generally state that they are not for permanent structural support.
The codebook citation would be section R407 which for a steel column requires that it be a minimum of 3" dia schedule 40 pipe OR an approved equivalent, the approval would be an ICC-ES number.
We are required to render the adjustment screw inoperable for the final either by putting it down in concrete or by welding it.
How did I come to know this section? A building official told me that I could only use a BOCA post or a wooden column on one job. I needed a post in a length that was not readily available and had intended on having a pipe welded for that location, he was asking for an engineer. I measured the thickness of the BOCA post and the thickness of the steel pipe and tried reason, he didn't budge. That section was my relief.
This was a quick google;
http://iowainspection.com/faqs/column.html
Don_P, I appreciate the info from you and Mountain_Don and don't take any offense at honest inquiry. Although there may not always be a single method to everything, or a code that is universal in all states, there are certainly good reasons for making sure that standards are adhered to. While licensed builders may know good practice from bad, there are always stories of cutting corners time and money wise that a homeowner may never have known. I'd rather be in the know and haven't felt anyone either "picking" on me or creating a rift between my builder and me.
The particular questions raised on this thread are excellent and deserve due consideration. Better to know about potential issues now than be sorry later. While my project will need to pass muster by the inspector at several more junctures, I'd like to know I'm getting the best possible workmanship, and building something my children and their children will enjoy. On that note, I'll be asking my builder some simple/non-confrontational questions this weekend and will post more photos and replies as available. Like you noted, we all post our projects here to give one another ideas, advice, and inspiration, not to give critiques on style, etc. Each project posted here is someone's dream, and the build thread, a pictorial representation of the steps taken to fulfill it.
Thanks to everyone for being involved, posting their photos, asking good questions, and adding to the overall experience.
Cheers,
Doc
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
It rained heavy this weekend (what else is new?) and I hadn't the chance to meet up with the builder. I did grab some photos during a break in the rain. I like that the builder had pre-wired my rooms through the logs so wires will not be visible. That's a nice touch.
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1322.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1334.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1346.jpg)
Wood burning stove goes here:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1354.jpg)
Up in the loft, 24 x 20. Knee wall is actually exterior wall 4 ft height.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1363.jpg)
Looking down from cathedral area from scaffolding. The swollen creek is visible behind me.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1368.jpg)
Glad I'm 100ft from the edge and around 14 ft up.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1398.jpg)
https://s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/?action=view¤t=2011-06-25_12-01-19_163.mp4 (https://s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/?action=view¤t=2011-06-25_12-01-19_163.mp4)
Love those logs!!
Looking good.
Wish we could send some of that rain to the Southwest.
Asked builder about the telescoping piers and why he was using something that's not up to code. He was taken aback and laughed, noting that code allows telescoping piers when there are no weight bearing walls above. As the cabin is 20ft wide and spans in the trusses above were designed to eliminate any need for load bearing walls or columns in first floor, most of the load falls on the exterior walls. He noted that the load on the first floor was below that value set by code mandating permanent columns. Nevertheless, he will be happy to swap them out later. ;) He also confirmed that there are soil anchors extending outwards and that the diagonal supports were not necessary. "Take them out if you want", he said. I think I'll leave them. They make for interesting conversation.
Squared off at the ends, the rafters join double uprights at notch and are lag bolted in. (https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/025.jpg)
Notched 2 x 6's with nailer for board and batten.(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/029.jpg)
Wiring is, for the most part, hidden in notch above the log.(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/027.jpg)
I may swap out the 5ft single centered loft window with two side by side 5's. First, I love the light and view (usually limited from a loft), and second, if I ever put a small partition wall down the center, there'll be a window in each room. Any thoughts?
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/IMG_1332.jpg)
At the guest cabin, we finally turned the scary loft ladder of 2x4s into a safer loft stair. Now I don't mind sleeping up top.(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/June%20camp/2011-06-25_10-38-04_876.jpg)
Doc
http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html (http://theadirondoc.blogspot.com/2011/06/summer-is-here.html)
The logs really give it a nice look :) But then, I'm kinda partial to logs ::)
QuoteAsked builder about the telescoping piers and why he was using something that's not up to code. He was taken aback and laughed, noting that code allows telescoping piers when there are no weight bearing walls above. As the cabin is 20ft wide and spans in the trusses above were designed to eliminate any need for load bearing walls or columns in first floor, most of the load falls on the exterior walls. He noted that the load on the first floor was below that value set by code mandating permanent columns. Nevertheless, he will be happy to swap them out later.
Did I mention not wanting to critique another builder in front of his client d* One of two things will happen, either a rift or he'll have a very good explanation and I shoulda kept my mouth shut. Of the two, I'm glad it was the second. He also handled it very well, even if he's right and the client wants it, he'll change it. I just sank 2 boxes of headlock screws in a non bearing ledger for the same reason.
He's rolling right along, nice looking work!
nice, I like the log/rustic look also. Finally started on mine too, so much fun working in mud.
Post some photos, NYSONO, would love to see you breaking ground, etc. Crazy the rain we've had upstate this year. It never ends. :o
my thread is started 24 x 32 on tug hill.....
steve
Any updates? I am starting my PWF project soon and was wondering how your project is coming.
Quote from: new land owner on July 08, 2011, 07:02:04 PM
Any updates? I am starting my PWF project soon and was wondering how your project is coming.
Well, we went up last weekend but as the builder had to tend to a smaller project, nothing new had been done. He and 4 others started back on Tuesday so we'll see next weekend. He was hopeful the steel roof would be on, as well as the deck for the 10 x 40 covered porch. Meanwhile, dad and I turned our attention to the 16 x 24 guest cabin. Temps and humidity were high and for nighttime comfort I ran the Yamaha genny and a small window AC that kept us cool. Got a showerstall in the corner, and placed some cabinets against the wall for the kitchen. I'll post more o Nen the main cabin build next week. Cheers!
Guest cabin project. Creek is behind the pines.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-29_09-45-55_741.jpg)
Watching from my porch as my son and daughter mill about.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1020402.jpg)
Hazy, hot and humid, esp. for kids in the loft. This made the uninsulated guest cabin comfy. Love that little genny!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-07-03_09-44-34_124.jpg)
A heavy rain before dawn left a thick haze over the guest camp when I woke to make coffee.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1020412.jpg)
Fourth of July sun burned off the haze. A lovely day to work at the camp. But I took a splash in the creek to wake up first ;D
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000188.jpg)
Our makeshift solar shower:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1020400.jpg)
Decided to put a shower stall in the corner and studded the wall of the future bathroom. Space is critical since we only have 16 x 24 and didn't want to break up the open feel. Now all we need is a well and plumbing. A solar water bag did the trick here and drained through a trap put under the floor and onto the ground.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-07-04_17-53-53_51.jpg)
Beginning the kitchen. Hickory bases from Lowes. An undercounter refrigerator will do nicely. Next up, more insulation behind backsplash and up the wall behind future cabinets. Sink goes into left base cabinet.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-07-04_17-50-15_159.jpg)
Me and my helpers. This is what it's all about!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1020432.jpg)
let me be the first to tell you how awesome the trusses look. VERY COOL. Its to good to know there are others doing cool builds in the hills of NY :)
Very interesting project Doc. and thanks for sharing the ideas you and the builder have worked up.
Your totally "no concrete" PWF basement is unique but looks solid to me. The columns have in effect a strip footing bearing on a wider and deeper crushed rock footing. The steel columns Don_P mentions can be put in later if required. I don't yet quite understand the pins that will be placed for the bottom basement plate but the diagonals take the place of the more common compression slab as a resistance to the forces on the bottom of the wall. The end walls could also be tied into the floor diaphragm with solid blocking between joists and diagonal braces if required. Obviously, if you can resolve this without the diagonals it will make for a more usable storage space.
The combination log and stud framing in the floors and roof is handsome and unique.
The results have exceeded my expectations thus far. Thanks guys! There's been progress this week and I'll soon post the updates.
Cheers!
Pic's look awesome! Great Job!
very nice Doc, what did you decide to do with the loft gable window, one or two?
Ah, the gable window. Well, for now, I'm sticking with the one large window. Two windows looked odd and ended up being closer together than the two windows on the first floor below. That's because to bring them out to line up with those below, they ended up hitting the roof line. I've got bigger fish to fry. And speaking of fish, I'm headed up this Friday. Hopefully the browns and brook are biting. Working this weekend, sono?
Doc
Quote from: AdironDoc on July 12, 2011, 10:34:54 PM
Ah, the gable window. Well, for now, I'm sticking with the one large window. Two windows looked odd and ended up being closer together than the two windows on the first floor below. That's because to bring them out to line up with those below, they ended up hitting the roof line. I've got bigger fish to fry. And speaking of fish, I'm headed up this Friday. Hopefully the browns and brook are biting. Working this weekend, sono?
Doc
working on camp!!!! much more enjoyable!!! Pouring floor Friday am then lumber starts saturday, hope to have cap on by Sunday eve.
Good luck fishing, Ive got a few Brookies in the freezer, (my wife's favorite food)
fine looking CAMP!!!!---and those hickory cabinets look awesome---what the $$$ at lowes might i ask===thanks
Jeez... my 300 gallon 4ft tall x 4ft round plastic water tank has yet to arrive. I had originally wanted it buried, but when I switched to a wood foundation, I thought to put it in the basement and cover it with a well insulated box. The floor's been in a while now and there's just no way to get it in now. Guess I'll have to bury it on the side of the house, up to it's neck. Maybe put a doghouse style pump house over it.
Quote from: Turkeyhunter on July 13, 2011, 10:24:58 AM
fine looking CAMP!!!!---and those hickory cabinets look awesome---what the $$$ at lowes might i ask===thanks
Thanks! They were around $40 - 60 more than the plain jane variety Lowes usually has. As I recall, $120-180 depending on the size. Oddly, down on Long Island, Lowes has them for special order. Upstate, the 2 Lowes have stocked them. Could be they're too "campy" for suburbanites. ;)
Love the wood grain on the cabinets! Everything looks fantastic [cool]
Awesome cabinets! I bought my hickory cabinets at Lowes too!
Beautiful place so far!
Well, the weekend was super hot during the day but cool and comfy at night. No AC needed. The main camp construction continues and dad and I continued working on small projects in the guest cabin. Despite the creek level being quite low, 3 ft was enough to swim and cool off. The deer flies were plenty and we went through a few cans of OFF. That's life in the woods. ;)
John, my builder told me today that the soil anchors in the PWF are steel bars extending downward from the 6" baseplate 8ft into the ground below to offset lateral pressure on the base of the foundation. The diagonals shown in earlier photos should be kept in place until a concrete or complete floor system is installed. Centerline of the first floor is supported by two 2 x 12's with a plywood sandwiched in between. Made a few last minute minor changes too. The one window facing the front in the living room went from one 5 footer, to two 4 footers. That will bring more light in and make the sofa seem centered. Despite the added cost, I've opted for 2 triangular windows at the top of the cathedral ceiling. Some things are non-negotiable. :D
Very pleased with the 10x40 porch. This is where I'll be spending a great deal of time.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/016-1.jpg)
The hand peeled log and conventional build combo continue to the porch too.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/015-1.jpg)
All the wood is from trees felled on the lot. Red pine. Porch rests on below grade timbers, 0.61 treated lumber, resting on concrete blocks.
love the porch ----nice build
Looks very nice!!! Yes it was a HOT weekend and the deer flies were feasting. Nice thunderstorm just rolled through but didnt change the heat index at all!!!
Steve
Thanks guys! After 7 months of waiting and planning, I can't believe it's come together this quickly. Had enough to cover the expense of roughing in and weatherproofing, so the project is 2/3 done. Next couple weeks sees hunter green metal roofing on, windows and doors on, siding up and stairs in and out. Scouted enough yellow birch for the flooring downstairs. Upstairs needs no flooring since it's essentially log joists supporting 1-3/4 knotty pine T&G planking. Just need to sand and poly.
View from creek. Note I moved my porch from the usual front to the rear where the creek lies. To avoid a plain looking front, the main entrance will have a gabled porch 6 x 8 made of logs.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/052.jpg)
Here's the 90ft down from the porch. I suspect I'll be cooling off here regularly ;)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/122.jpg)
My kids downcreek at the guest cabin.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/179.jpg)
Steve, why doesn't my bug spray scare off those big black flies? They seem to laugh at it. :D
Glenn
Love the big porch! And that creek looks awesome. Your kids & you will be able to spend hours fishing & swimming. That is one feature I would have loved on our property! I love to swim... this year my above ground pool got a bad case of algae & haven't been able to eradicate it so haven't bee able to swim (we'll have to empty it, think I'm gonna go to using hydrogen peroxide as a disinfectant for the pool, had the salt chlorinator, but that still makes CHLORINE. Besides, we've been having COOL weather - 70's-80's & even a nice 1/2 in rain the beginning of July! Forecasted to be in the 80's throughout this next week, yeah! Good weather to work in the garden, etc.
Keep posting the great pics - always love to see people's progress :)
QuoteThe diagonals shown in earlier photos should be kept in place until a concrete or complete floor system is installed. Centerline of the first floor is supported by two 2 x 12's with a plywood sandwiched in between.
Going back and looking at the original basement pic and this information does change things a bit. The flush girder (2-2x12's with ply sandwiched) runs down the centerline of the floor, there are joists coming into it from each side. It is structural, this is not a clearspan floor. The posts do need to be solid BOCA posts on appropriate footings. I'd review the PWF standard looking at the floor options.
Sure does look nice!!! The creek sure is a special feature that many of us would love to have 90' from the front door or any door for that matter. The deer flies this year are ferocious, driving into camp last night I thought they were going to eat the tires off my truck. Same color roof going on mine too, someday.
Steve
Quote from: AdironDoc on July 18, 2011, 10:41:09 AM
Thanks guys! After 7 months of waiting and planning, I can't believe it's come together this quickly. Had enough to cover the expense of roughing in and weatherproofing, so the project is 2/3 done. Next couple weeks sees hunter green metal roofing on, windows and doors on, siding up and stairs in and out. Scouted enough yellow birch for the flooring downstairs. Upstairs needs no flooring since it's essentially log joists supporting 1-3/4 knotty pine T&G planking. Just need to sand and poly.
View from creek. Note I moved my porch from the usual front to the rear where the creek lies. To avoid a plain looking front, the main entrance will have a gabled porch 6 x 8 made of logs.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/052.jpg)
Here's the 90ft down from the porch. I suspect I'll be cooling off here regularly ;)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/122.jpg)
My kids downcreek at the guest cabin.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/179.jpg)
Steve, why doesn't my bug spray scare off those big black flies? They seem to laugh at it. :D
Glenn
the porch really does like nice with the round logs. Always love the less processed stuff. Really cool [cool]
I do have some late thoughts on the PWF as used here. Being out of town and internet free (not free internet, but internet free as in None) I'm behind on a few things.
I spent some time reading the ANSI Permanent Wood Foundation Design Specification document. There is a statement in the document that permits "other additional methods" of restraining the movement of the lower sill when the foundation wall is backfilled. The "other additional methods" phrase could be interpreted to mean an engineered solution. Rods, pipes or whatever could be engineered to be used as "soil nails" to restrain the lower sill movement.
Engineered solutions are normally made for a certain narrow set of specifications. They are not usually permitted to be applied to projects other than the original. That is because of variables that have to be considered. The variables, such as soil composition, can vary widely from one location to another.
When the builder does an about face and says to leave the bracing in place unless a concrete or complete floor system is installed that causes me to wonder why the change? It would seem the soil anchors may be insufficient to prevent lateral movement. That is just a question or opinion of mine, not based on any engineering knowledge.
I wonder if the soil anchor solution might have been provided as an engineered solution at some point in the past for one of his other projects? ??? Perhaps the soil conditions are the same here, or perhaps not. I don't know. The caution to now leave the bracing just makes me wonder.
I believe that others should be wary of emulating this foundation; there are details used here that do not appear in any prescriptive "cookbook" that I have seen. The soil anchors are not prescriptive, but could be a suitable engineered solution. Only an engineer can say for certain.
That is my Opinion; meant to be taken as food for thought for anyone contemplating a PWF.
I have a question. Are the floor joists one piece? Or are they two pieces meeting over the center beam? Two piece joists would make that center beam and teleposts structural.
I spent the day watching the builder and crew and found out what he and the building engineer had been up to. Turns out what I said earlier was not entirely accurate. I'm no builder and can easily misconstrue technical jargon and the like. As Mountain Don alluded to, soil anchors were used to prevent inward motion at the base. This practice is apparently common in this area and has been encouraged by the local engineer and building departments.
Second, the diagonals as shown are not mandatory, but are used during backfill. Per the engineer, they exceed standards and are encouraged to shore up the middle section of the wall against severe winter frost heave. "Take em out if you like, but up here, we like to leave em in unless they're really in your way.. we figure why go with minimum standards. If it were my place, they'd stay in". Gotcha.
Lastly, temporary bracing (telescoping supports) was, well, temporary. Once everything is done and the walls have settled in, they check that everything is still plumb. The temps are swapped with permanents, which due to their short length, are custom made by a nearby welder. So that's the story. Photos to follow.
A few pics of the steel roof and yard cleared down to the creek.
Porch awaiting Adirondack style railing.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/020-3.jpg)
Poor man's water heater hanging in the new shower stall. Studded a small corner bathroom in the 16 x 24 guest cabin. Cut a hole under the shower base but haven't put the trap in yet. A coffee can top keeps the bugs from flying up through the drain ;)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/Cabin/031.jpg)
Main cabin, site cleared to the creek bank. I will thin out the smaller hemlock so the creek is more visible. Grass seed went down last weekend.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/Cabin/006.jpg)
Partition walls up.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/Cabin/003.jpg)
Viewed from the creek, she's actually starting to look like a real cabin!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/Cabin/199.jpg)
I'm really digging the big covered porch, might have to incorporate something like that into my build. Looks like the project is moving right along, keep up the good work.
Quote from: pmichelsen on August 03, 2011, 08:45:17 AM
I'm really digging the big covered porch, might have to incorporate something like that into my build. Looks like the project is moving right along, keep up the good work.
Thanks! You know, as time went by, I realized that the fine line between camping, and being at home, is the porch. So now I can retreat into the comfort of a living room and watch TV, be out back by the creek, or as I predict, spend most time in that heavenly zone in between. ;D A 10ft porch seems a must for any project!
I'm deff. Leaning twoards the 1.5 story with a porch just like that! Looking great. I'm thinking walkout basement too. (I started at a 2 story).
Quote from: duncanshannon on August 04, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
I'm deff. Leaning twoards the 1.5 story with a porch just like that! Looking great. I'm thinking walkout basement too. (I started at a 2 story).
Thanks! You know, I started inspired by a neighbor's cabin, 26 x 24, which was essentially a one room, 1.5 story which, due to ease of build, was very inexpensive ($15K) roughed in. My plan gradually grew as I realized mom, dad, kids, and others would be enjoying it too. The size grew, along with the size of the loft. Looking at the loft now, I wish I had more light coming in. Dog house dormers could solve that, but add considerably to the price, end up keeping large areas of snow and ice, and still can't beat simply raising the wall a bit into a two story. In my case, I may dormer the side above the porch later for a nice view of the creek.
Is your project on a lot that has a view? If so, would you consider dormering or lifting one side of the roof, saltbox style? The 1.5 lacks any views from upstairs. As for the porch, I can't think of a nicer and less expensive way to add living space while bringing the outdoors in. Sitting with a coffee watching the rain pour down. Now that's what I'm talking about!
Glenn
Glenn, looks like things are coming along well for you. I too like the porch and will likely incorporate one someday myself, for the time being I will have to be satisfied with the deck over the walkout.
Steve
Glenn, what are you doing for siding?
Steve
Quote from: nysono on August 07, 2011, 07:39:20 PM
Glenn, what are you doing for siding?
Steve
Siding will be board and batten, rough cut, from the pine at the camp. I'll stain in semi-transparent in light/chestnut brown/golden brown. Something that goes well with the hunter green roof. I thought of live-edge siding but after it weathers a few years, it begins to look a bit "wild and wooly"! I like rustic, but I had second thoughts about just how rustic that meant exactly! ;D
Quote from: AdironDoc on August 07, 2011, 10:11:19 PM
Siding will be board and batten, rough cut, from the pine at the camp. I'll stain in semi-transparent in light/chestnut brown/golden brown. Something that goes well with the hunter green roof. I thought of live-edge siding but after it weathers a few years, it begins to look a bit "wild and wooly"! I like rustic, but I had second thoughts about just how rustic that meant exactly! ;D
I was going the same route but after some discussion with my stepbrother (who was been foreman on all of this) I have another idea. I have to go look at a project he did a few years back to be sure. He used 1 x 8 rough cut, left a 1 inch gap (or so) and used a chinking material that filled the gap. Looked like log cabin style without the headaches of the logs. I will get more info and try to post a pic. Im also going with the hunter green roof/soffits
The log cabin look is very popular around the East Tennessee area. In fact, what a lot of people think are log cabins are nothing but stick built structures with the horizontal boards with chinking between them to look like logs. The big give away is the corners of the building. Vertical wooden corners with the 'logs' butting into them is how you know the difference. It's a great look, as you say, without the headache of the logs. Most builders don't even use chinking. They simply paint between the boards with grey paint which has sand mixed in to give it a textured look.
Nice cabin indeed.
Question about the porch posts (i.e. the little trees ::))
Are they dried some how? was some process done to them to make them durable? or you just cut them and use them right away?
Sharbin
Quote from: nysono on August 08, 2011, 05:11:43 AM
I was going the same route but after some discussion with my stepbrother (who was been foreman on all of this) I have another idea. I have to go look at a project he did a few years back to be sure. He used 1 x 8 rough cut, left a 1 inch gap (or so) and used a chinking material that filled the gap. Looked like log cabin style without the headaches of the logs. I will get more info and try to post a pic. Im also going with the hunter green roof/soffits
I'd never thought to do that but it sounds like a great idea. Do the gaps between the boards tend to catch a lot of moisture or ice? I suppose the chinking is what really gives it the log look. Would love to see it. btw, I was reading a travel guide that says Lewis county, NY is one of 2 counties the state has declared rural and that there are more cows than people. Also you produce the lions share of NY's maple syrup. I've only found one company online that sells maple taps. Thinking to tap some trees at your camp?
Sharbin, the log posts used for the porch and elsewhere are kiln dried at the mill that hand peeled them. They will still be sprayed with preservative. I suspect that 3 months in the kiln may not have completely dried them and I will see a bit more checking by the end of the year.
Quote from: AdironDoc on August 15, 2011, 08:09:42 AM
I'd never thought to do that but it sounds like a great idea. Do the gaps between the boards tend to catch a lot of moisture or ice? I suppose the chinking is what really gives it the log look. Would love to see it. btw, I was reading a travel guide that says Lewis county, NY is one of 2 counties the state has declared rural and that there are more cows than people. Also you produce the lions share of NY's maple syrup. I've only found one company online that sells maple taps. Thinking to tap some trees at your camp?
I will try to get a picture this week if I can. I need to look it over too. I understand the chinking is painted with a sealer/solidifier after install and all is sealed and stays that way. Yes, lots of syrup, friend of mine made over 1600gallons this past spring, one of the best on record. I might tap a few trees, the old fashioned way, (tap and bucket), and boil down on the wood stove just to say we made our own.
Well, as the summer winds to a close, so does my budget. In the next two weeks, the work I paid for will be complete. Roughed in, essentially. Kids, mom/dad and I were up over the last week. I was happy with several changes I had asked for. First, instead of a single window in the front left, where sofa will be, I opted to swap the 5ft, with two 4 footers, allowing more light, and balancing the look from the outside. Also the sofa will fall in the middle of two windows for a better feel.
Wall to the right is against the creek and will have a dining table. It's directly across from living room and sofa. (https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/cabin%20vacation%20august/SAM_0205.jpg)
Front wall to the left of the entrance will have sofa and end tables. The two windows more appropriately match the rear two windows.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/cabin%20vacation%20august/SAM_0204.jpg)
Second change, upped the 6ft porch, to 10ft deep. This totally changed the looks and functionality of the back.
Another change was that I opted to use the smooth side of the boards for board and batten siding. Originally I had wanted the rough cut side, but after seeing how it took up 3 times the stain and ended up very dark, I saw no grain or knots. Instead of being more rugged and dramatic, the wood ended up looking more uniform from a distance. Builder suggested I look at how the smooth side took up stain and it ended up showing much more of the wood's character. This is a sample he put up for me. It will darken slightly over time.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/SAM_0607.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/SAM_0610.jpg)
Last thing I'm wrestling with is that my kitchen ends up being very small. No problem in general, but where to put the refrigerator? I will take space from the wall directly across from the kitchen, and box in the fridge. This means giving up a bit of space in the bathroom. Out with the tub, in with a shower.
Kitchen wall:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/Cabin/013.jpg)
Will box the ref in this wall:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/SAM_0644.jpg)
Well, aside from the welded support columns, nothing much has changed. This week, log stairs outside, 6 x 8 porch over front entrance, inside stairs, trapezoid windows in living room, siding up, and basement windows in. Last but not least, railing on porches.
I do like the look of the board and bat. Stain makes the difference in setting of the knots and such. Ill probably end up going that way too (that was my first plan anyway). Are you installing a wood stove? Triple wall is outrageously expensive at roughly $ 100/ft...
The builder told me the oil based (linseed or was it mineral oil?..hmm) stain he recommended was one of the best but pricey. My question was regarding the other sides of the boards. If it's possible, I'd rather seal them with something cheaper, since they're not visible anyway. He said its unusual to spray the backs with something different than the fronts but that he would give a few of his painter friends a call and ask the cheapest way to go. As the rough cut backs grab up to 4 times the stain as the front, that adds up. I wonder if I can have him spray the backs with poly, and put the stain/sealer on the fronts.
I ordered a wood stove last fall and ended up getting a unit with a smashed window. After 6 months of trying to get them to take it back, they sent me a new one without taking the old one back. They told me to junk it. Then, to my surprise, I got another unit from a different distributor. They asked for two back but shipping never showed up. Nobody would take my follow up calls. No RMA was given. It's been a year now and it seems I have three stoves. I'll put the stove in the middle of the wall by the cathedral ceiling. I'm undecided on whether to use a interior stovepipe rise up the 26ft to the top or punch through 8ft up. How do you know when to use single, double or triple wall pipe?
Is the builder going to use tar paper under the siding or will he be using Tyvek. Just read that the majority of builders prefer tar paper as it breathes better than Tavek.
Doc here is an article from Lehmans on proper wood burning chimney installation.
http://www.lehmans.com/store/article/1308?Args=#
Quote from: frankbjorn on August 15, 2011, 05:38:28 PM
Is the builder going to use tar paper under the siding or will he be using Tyvek. Just read that the majority of builders prefer tar paper as it breathes better than Tavek.
I don't know if he will use Tyvek or 15# Tar Felt, but the first article below considers them both to be non-permeable. The results of their study show that neither will leak when subjected to wind driven rains, or water logged non-treated siding. The results showed that Tyvek, didn't leak per-se, but led to dampness on the undersurface. When a nail was put through the siding and into the framing as in actual construction, all wraps leaked within two hours. Moral of that story was always back and end-prime boards to prevent any leakage through nail perforations. I've let my builder know to do exactly that.
http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/leaky-housewraps/ (http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/leaky-housewraps/)
This article notes, as you alluded to, that Tyvek had absolutely no water penetration when wind driven rain was simulated. Tar paper (15 pound asphalt felt) passed 30% of its water sample through over 2 hours.
http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/housewraps-felt-paper-and-weather-penetration-barriers/ (http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/housewraps-felt-paper-and-weather-penetration-barriers/)
If the ultimate goal is to keep water outside the framing, it would seem to me that a totally impenetrable water barrier would be best? Tar paper, though able to breathe a bit, would pass water driven into the space behind the siding through tiny channels and wind into the plywood and framing. I'm not sure how this is a plus.
Rick: Thanks for the Lehmans website. I'll likely come up 5 or 6 ft and pass-through the wall as is shown in diagram #2. Oddly, the diagram indicates all diagram parts as "finishing collar". Amazing Lehman's didn't notice that. Anyway, still informative and a great reminder to start planning the proper parts.
Quote from: AdironDoc on August 15, 2011, 10:19:27 AM
The builder told me the oil based (linseed or was it mineral oil?..hmm) stain he recommended was one of the best but pricey. My question was regarding the other sides of the boards. If it's possible, I'd rather seal them with something cheaper, since they're not visible anyway. He said its unusual to spray the backs with something different than the fronts but that he would give a few of his painter friends a call and ask the cheapest way to go. As the rough cut backs grab up to 4 times the stain as the front, that adds up. I wonder if I can have him spray the backs with poly, and put the stain/sealer on the fronts.
I ordered a wood stove last fall and ended up getting a unit with a smashed window. After 6 months of trying to get them to take it back, they sent me a new one without taking the old one back. They told me to junk it. Then, to my surprise, I got another unit from a different distributor. They asked for two back but shipping never showed up. Nobody would take my follow up calls. No RMA was given. It's been a year now and it seems I have three stoves. I'll put the stove in the middle of the wall by the cathedral ceiling. I'm undecided on whether to use a interior stovepipe rise up the 26ft to the top or punch through 8ft up. How do you know when to use single, double or triple wall pipe?
Maybe just linseed oil on the backs, let it soak in good? Im punching through the wall on the gable end just above my top plate. Single wall up to there then triple wall through and all the outside...about 15 feet...
Two schools of thought on housewraps, tyvek, etc do a better job with air infiltration but not as good a job at allowing a building to dry back out. Tarpaper can absorb a bit of water and release it when drying conditions improve. This was Dr Fisette's point at the end of the article. I've argued both sides of this, and use whichever one the homeowners prefer.
The oil is probably boiled linseed and should work on the backside. I'm a bit leery of raw linseed oil in a high humidity climate.
I'm interested what you hear back from him on what to use for back priming. My cedar siding showed up this week and I need to start back priming and am wondering what I can get away with. Not exactly sure how I'm going to finish the face yet (just a sealer or tinted stain). I'll wait until the roof and trim are up so I can hopefully visualize it better.
Alan
Basically you are trying to seal the raw wood with something to lessen the swings in moisture content in the wood. If you are painting then prime the entire stick, nail it up and paint the face. If you are staining I find it easier to slop or prefferrably dip the entire stick in the stain but if you are careful you can do the back in something different. Tints last longer than clear finishes, they help block uv which breaks the finish down.
Quote from: Alan Gage on August 18, 2011, 10:09:29 PM
I'm interested what you hear back from him on what to use for back priming. My cedar siding showed up this week and I need to start back priming and am wondering what I can get away with. Not exactly sure how I'm going to finish the face yet (just a sealer or tinted stain). I'll wait until the roof and trim are up so I can hopefully visualize it better.
Alan
By the time I had reached him, he was half through with the boards. The backs were done in the same premium stain as the front. I had thought to prime the ends and back with something cheap but he had felt the difference in price wouldn't have been all that great and he noted added time and aggravation when the primer dripped or shows up on the fronts. Well, I have no idea what the added costs will be for the stain, but it will extend the life of the visible staining and the life of the wood. Thank God I have a 20x40! ;)
I realize your back priming decision has already been made but I thought I'd post this here for anyone else following along. Been doing a lot of research the past couple days and came across Water Repellent Preservatives. They seem to be highly recommended for back priming by cedar suppliers and painters in general. Some are designed to be stand alone and others to be painted/stained. Cost seems to be reasonable at under $15/gallon.
Some info from the Forest Products Lab:
http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Benefit-From-Airspace-Behind-Your-Siding/151553
http://www.mchd.com/pdf/woodpr.pdf
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/fpl_pdfs/willi00c.pdf
Biggest benefit for me is that I don't know how I'm going to finish my siding yet so I can coat all sides with this and decide on the finish later.
Alan
I have not had to paint or stain very many bd. ft. of unprimed wood for siding BUT from the little I have done I have an opinion. And that is that it would drive me absolutely nuts if I was to try to apply one type of finish to the hidden backside and a different material to the surfaces that would be visible. There would bound to be some of the hidden surface finish that would seep, drip or run around to a surface where it was not wanted, IMO. I personally doubt the practicality of attempting this sort of dual surface finishing.
It's bad enough at times applying the same stain to all syrfaces of a board if the stain is drying fast because of weather conditions. It's very easy to get some stain that dribbles around an edge to the yet unstained surface. If that dries much it can show up when stain is actually applied to that side.
If selecting a first coat preservative that will later have some other finish applied make certain the second coat is compatible with the first coat. For example some Thompson products contain wax and nothing else will stick to that.
Quote from: MountainDon on August 19, 2011, 09:14:10 PM
If selecting a first coat preservative that will later have some other finish applied make certain the second coat is compatible with the first coat. For example some Thompson products contain wax and nothing else will stick to that.
A list of some (there are more) of the water repellant preservatives that can be stained/painted:
http://community.familyhandyman.com/tfh_group/b/diy_advice_blog/archive/2011/08/09/prevent-peeling-paint-with-water-repellent-preservative.aspx
I understand the difference to be what you stated with the Thompson products. The repellants that are meant to be stand alone products (last longer) have more wax than the ones that are meant to be covered with paint/stain.
Alan
Was up this weekend with dad to work on the guest cabin. Insulated, wired and put up pine boards while dad put together a rudimentary PEX plumbing system for shower, toilet and kitchen sink. 12V batts run a ShurFlo pump with pressure tank to on-demand propane water heater. Nice to take a hot shower but it sure uses a lot of water! Just about 5 gallons per quick shower and that's with the heater on minimum flow. Dropping the heat level and running just the hot line would save a great deal as the cold wouldn't bypass the heater.
The main camp is almost complete (at least for what I paid!). Logs have been in the kiln waiting for their new life as half log rear steps. Trapezoid windows are in and bring in much more light. Soffits done now. Front porch is done except for railings. Inside stairs to loft up next. Builder says 2 weeks tops.
Future rear stairs from deck:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/613.jpg)
South facing windows in.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/709.jpg)
boards and batten
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/714.jpg)
My yellow birch, ready for flooring come spring.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/614.jpg)
Changed plans for tub to a decent sized shower. This will allow the refrigerator to be boxed into wall across from the small kitchen. Something like this at $128 will do fine.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/732.jpg)
Front porch done at last.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/722.jpg)
Soffits closed.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/725.jpg)
Front porch gave it some much needed character. Battens still to be put up. Now for a fancy log style railing and Adirondack twig style corners.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/728.jpg)
Shower setup at guest cabin. This will all be shored up and put in a deck box.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/751.jpg)
Pine boards and a six pack. Instant beauty!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/743.jpg)
Wow, your cabins are really moving along fast! Love how you've integrated the logs & the porch looks great. :)
WOW!!!
spectacular!
Thanks for the compliments guys! At $48K, I'm pleased as punch to get a 20 x 40, log/timber/stick hybrid roughed in. Some elements came from inspiration gotten here among the threads, so thanks again!
Btw, anyone know how this stain rates? My builder has used it front and back on boards and batten.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/716.jpg)
Quote from: AdironDoc on August 22, 2011, 06:12:01 PM
Thanks for the compliments guys! At $48K, I'm pleased as punch to get a 20 x 40, log/timber/stick hybrid roughed in. Some elements came from inspiration gotten here among the threads, so thanks again!
Btw, anyone know how this stain rates? My builder has used it front and back on boards and batten.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/716.jpg)
Its good stuff from what I have heard, but no personal experience. Very nice work all the way around. The front porch/reverse gable has given me some food for thought.
Steve
I have used Sikkens for my cedar siding. It's pricey, but just about the best you can get!!
Well, the weekend turned out nice despite the ever-present threat of showers. The builder finished the rough-in with the exception of the basement windows which should come in this week. That should be it for a while. Time to move some things in and use the camp. When budget allows, will do the septic, well, knotty pine walls and birch flooring.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/137-2.jpg)
Out with the proposed vanity area, in with the new toilet alcove.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/116-1.jpg)
Added trapezoids for more light and better view of the forest. More "cabiny" now.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/063-1.jpg)
L-shaped kitchen ended up a bit small. Solution: move refrigerator across and box it into the bathroom wall on the right. That meant giving up a 5ft tub and opting for a 48" shower stall.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/055-1.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/128-1.jpg)
Temporary staircase until birch is seasoned. Will need 20+ ft of nice railing for the loft. To match elements of whatever porch railing I choose or not. That is a question.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/067-1.jpg)
Future queen and two singles go here. I may partition this back area into a bedroom and leave the stairs and forward area of the loft for bookshelf, card table, easy chair, reading lamp, etc.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/046-1.jpg)
I'm pleased as punch with the board and batten. Now to choose a railing.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/033-3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/024-2.jpg)
Builder John threw in a set of half log stairs as a gift. Thanks, John!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/029-3.jpg)
Just showed Glenn your new stairs & told him I really liked them... hint, hint :D
I'm knocking different railing designs around. Here's the front and rear, and the design I'm thinking of. Any thoughts?
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/028-4.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/021-3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/railing%20ideas/outtwig16.jpg)
Or..
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/railing%20ideas/eaglerockrental.jpg)
Quote from: Sassy on September 05, 2011, 04:36:24 PM
Just showed Glenn your new stairs & told him I really liked them... hint, hint :D
Maybe a set will show up in your x-mas stocking? ;D
Quote from: AdironDoc on September 05, 2011, 04:29:34 PM
I'm pleased as punch with the board and batten. Now to choose a railing.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/033-3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/024-2.jpg)
Builder John threw in a set of half log stairs as a gift. Thanks, John!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/029-3.jpg)
The porch and siding look awesome, it's giving me some great ideas. Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: Rob_O on September 05, 2011, 08:55:15 PM
The porch and siding look awesome, it's giving me some great ideas. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Rob! I got some great ideas and inspiration here. Hope your dreams will come together and that you build what you dream. Then photograph, post, and pass it on! :)
Looks fantastic!! Im also dried in and about done for the year. I am kicking around the railing question too so I will keep watch of your posts for more ideas. Congratulations!!
How were the half logs attached to the risers? I tried something like that and failed miserably. I'd like to do something like that on a trail I'm improving in our woods.
Quote from: reb5maccom on September 06, 2011, 09:01:09 AM
How were the half logs attached to the risers? I tried something like that and failed miserably. I'd like to do something like that on a trail I'm improving in our woods.
Some super-long lag bolts, 4 per tread. I would have preferred to see them notched in, but a gift is a gift. Builder noted that even after drying, the logs were too heavy to move comfortably and necessitated using a fork-lift attached to his log skidder to bring them in. I can't guess at the weight of it all. There seem to be 2 missing that I'll need to place myself.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/031-3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/032-2.jpg)
Wow, awesome build!
I've had great luck with the Sikkens Cetol. I used the marine versions for years to finish the exterior teak on all of my various sailboats - in the Puget Sound, the Chesapeake, and the inner banks of eastern NC (e.g. New Bern area)....
Quote from: metolent on September 06, 2011, 02:29:56 PM
Wow, awesome build!
I've had great luck with the Sikkens Cetol. I used the marine versions for years to finish the exterior teak on all of my various sailboats - in the Puget Sound, the Chesapeake, and the inner banks of eastern NC (e.g. New Bern area)....
Thanks! Then what you're saying is that after 4 coats of Sikken's I've essentially built a boat? With all this rain, we'll all need to set sail. I'm glad it's good stuff. :P
Doc
My main camp is 2 miles into the woods, through tight winding trails, countless forks in the trails, steep hills and rocky ravines. So who shows up while we're there? The tax assessors! How they found us is beyond me.. ;D Anyway, no real work done at the main camp, only moving furniture in. Guest camp got all the knotty pine boards up, and flooring down. Even finished most of the floor joists that will turn the cathedral ceiling into a second floor. Non-stop rains prevented any hunting. Maybe that's why it was such a productive weekend!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000269.jpg)
Will use double wall pipe 22 feet up and through. Wall will be faux river rock up to the log running across.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000263.jpg)
The front porch overhang is begging for a carved wood sign. One sign ordered. :)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000232.jpg)
The creek behind the camp always draws me away from my work. Time to fish for brookies.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000375.jpg)
Furniture, out of my garage finally, makes itself at home in the main camp.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000361.jpg)
No, I wasn't scaring off the tax men! ;D I was target shooting along a deer trail.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000377.jpg)
Laid the floor in the guest camp.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000341.jpg)
I dropped the sink in and finished up in the kitchen area of the guest camp.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000289.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000309.jpg)
All the pine is up, finally!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000338.jpg)
Built a thin facade to hide shower plumbing. Pine is up. Used the extra to fashion some shelves.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000318.jpg)
Time to relax, have a beer, and watch the sun burn the fog off the ground.
Re: tax assessors
The neighbors always know. No matter how remote you think you are. And they talk. It's not like there are a dozen things going on. It is also in their best interest to let the assessor know. They pay their fair share for infrastructure and they want an out of towner (who has the money to build in a recession) to pay up too.
Looks great. The weather must be changing there now.
That toilet is awfull close to the wall isnt it? No way my big butt could use it. Lol
Quote from: Squirl on October 04, 2011, 10:22:59 AM
Re: tax assessors
Sometimes the building permit will trigger the assessor visit. Just a part of life.
Quote from: CjAl on October 04, 2011, 10:43:03 AM
That toilet is awfull close to the wall isnt it? No way my big butt could use it. Lol
Not much room for the "reach around", I know! Of course, I went from, "no toilet, let's use the old steaming port-a-can". After assessing its condition as teeming with tiny wiggling creepy crawlers, it changed to, "let's just dig a hole", to finally, "anything inside will do!". In a 16 x 24 space, even this tiny bano takes a chunk out of the living area. On the bright side, if you're drunk, it's impossible to fall down while you're standing at my loo!
Quote from: Squirl on October 04, 2011, 10:22:59 AM
Re: tax assessors
The neighbors always know. No matter how remote you think you are. And they talk. It's not like there are a dozen things going on. It is also in their best interest to let the assessor know. They pay their fair share for infrastructure and they want an out of towner (who has the money to build in a recession) to pay up too.
Looks great. The weather must be changing there now.
Darned straight! They "caught wind" that some construction was underway. Meanwhile, nobody else around has even a permit to show. Plus, they assess at what you pay for the land. As the large lot was sliced into 6 pieces, I get assessed on each, not the original larger. I way overpaid and now they have assessed the land's new value at an additional 25% above that? Not in their dreams is it worth that. I asked the assessor how they came to that, they said they "ballpark" it. (bigger fool theory?) That's over $5K per year on raw land. I called the town assessor again today and shared my feelings. They agreed to consolidate back all the pieces and reassess next year. Why do I feel like I'm paying more than anyone in town? It's enough to scare us city folk off! I thought highway robbery went out with stagecoaches!
Quote from: AdironDoc on October 04, 2011, 06:09:30 PM
Darned straight! They "caught wind" that some construction was underway. Meanwhile, nobody else around has even a permit to show. Plus, they assess at what you pay for the land. As the large lot was sliced into 6 pieces, I get assessed on each, not the original larger. I way overpaid and now they have assessed the land's new value at an additional 25% above that? Not in their dreams is it worth that. I asked the assessor how they came to that, they said they "ballpark" it. (bigger fool theory?) That's over $5K per year on raw land. I called the town assessor again today and shared my feelings. They agreed to consolidate back all the pieces and reassess next year. Why do I feel like I'm paying more than anyone in town? It's enough to scare us city folk off! I thought highway robbery went out with stagecoaches!
As I said in my post, gotta love NY, not even dinner or a kiss........I figure I have a year tops before they bend me over. I really like the looks of all the pine and will be doing similar next year. I have til 10/15 (muzzleloader opens) to insulate and get gas lines/electric lines in. After season opens all bets are off for me
$5k a year isnt a tax bill, thats a mortgage. Thats why i left WI.
Wow. I have only a few hundred on 8 acres. They recently raised my assesment value to 50% over what I paid in an arms length transaction just the year before. At the same time, they "lowered taxes" by lowering the rate. So I paid the same amount.
I know you are going off grid. Make sure they don't tax you on that.
http://dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=NY27F&re=1&ee=1
http://dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=NY07F&re=1&ee=1
Squirl thats the move they pulled.on.us in WI. NEXT THING YOU KNOW THE RATE WILL START MOVING BACK UP. Its easier for them to.move the rate up then.it is to raise the values.without people freaking out. So they.justify the value.increase with the rate drop but thats short lived. In the 7yr i owned my place in WI my taxes went from $1200 to almost $5k and i was in the lightest tax area in southern wi
i would fight any value.increase with all i had. Afterall property values are dropping like a rock. My house.is.worth half what it was in 06 when i bought it. The banks wont accept short sales she they are likely to get it back
I wanted to buy a place on a beautiful 20 acres in SW Wisconsin (just SSE of ellsworth) but the taxes were 4k a year and that was just too much.
house/land was $150k IIRC.
Must have been a while ago at that price. My place was between monroe and new glaurus. Bought it in 01 for $140k. Barely touched it and sold it in 07 for $250k. It was over 100 yo and on ten acres
Squirl, thanks a bunch for the links. That's good stuff for someone going off-grid!
I note it odd that on the 15 year exemption, there's the clause that allows local municipalities to allow or disallow the exemption. "the law is a local option exemption, meaning that local governments are permitted decide whether or not to allow it." That's a bit like giving a kid the choice of whether to do extra-credit homework or not. As for the energy conservation improvements exemption, it notes the eligibility to be
"Amount:100% of the value added to the residence by the improvements". I wonder how this is determined. At the very least, it should be equal to the value of all the things we've bought and installed? Has anyone had trouble making these exemptions, incentives and rebates stick?
When I asked a solar guy about my camp, he wasn't sure whether a second residence or recreation property qualified since, out on Long Island at least, power company and local incentives extend only to principle residence. State incentives may well be different. One way or another, I'm gonna push these taxes down.
good luck, you will surely need it. A bit frosty up here this morning, getting to be that time of year!!
Quote from: nysono on October 06, 2011, 07:17:05 AM
good luck, you will surely need it. A bit frosty up here this morning, getting to be that time of year!!
Got a frost warning on my phone weather app. Guess you're gearin' up for muzzle loading now and won't hear from you in a while? :P
Quote from: AdironDoc on October 06, 2011, 12:45:45 PM
Got a frost warning on my phone weather app. Guess you're gearin' up for muzzle loading now and won't hear from you in a while? :P
Oh Ill be here, this is how I pass time between pt's at work.....My weekend work at the camp will slow considerably but weeknight work will continue.
The rain was almost non-stop this weekend but I kept busy. I dug a 50 ft trench at the main camp between my solar panel rack and the house. I hate ditch digging when there's roots and the wet clay hangs on the shovel. Anyway, there's a 52ft run of 1" PVC conduit from house to where I'll mount a weatherproof splice box. I've decided to place the charge controller, inverter and batteries in the basement. I want to be able to use the remote on/off for the inverter when I turn in for the night. Batteries will be in a plastic storage container with a dryer hose up and out through the basement wall to get rid of an off-gassing hydrogen. Putting the inverter in the house means the 50ft run is low voltage so no need to dig the trench too deeply.
The two panels will fit on the rack of 4x4's and butt up against firring strips all around. Metal clips around the edges will hold them down. The rack faces true south at around a 40 degree angle. I still want to brace it diagonally to prevent wobble.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000462.jpg)
The two panels will fit on the rack of 4x4's and butt up against firring strips all around. Metal clips around the edges will hold them down. The rack faces true south at around a 40 degree angle. I still want to brace it diagonally to prevent wobble.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000466.jpg)
Also spent a few hours building and raising a slightly smaller structure... ;D
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000457.jpg)
Finally wrapping things up for the guest cabin. Here's how it looked when I got it.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2011-05-28_13-58-39_318.jpg)
Last time, I was able to get 2x12's up across what was the open cathedral area. Braced up, got plywood up this time. Gone was the scary ladder. Up went a set of poor man's stairs in different orientation.
Plywood floors covered. Pine boards up over insulation. The eaves are still vented and each time the wind blows, I feel the draft.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000406.jpg)
It's dark now at the opposite end of loft. Instead of a window, I'm thinking of putting a small door in. Since the roof and horizontal beams continue 8ft beyond the exterior wall, there's a perfect place to hang some 2 bys for a small veranda outside the loft area. (https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000409.jpg)
Since the ceiling is high, it doesn't feel any smaller after the cathedral area was closed up. Actually, I think it's cozier. (https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000414.jpg)(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000387.jpg)
Next time I'm up, I'll begin the insulation in the rafters. The small 1.4gpm Eccotemp on-demand heater was a disappointment and was impossible to keep at a steady temperature. Scalding or icy. No in-between. Will swap it for my larger unit and see what happens.
very nice, love the kitchen cabinets, we think we are doing the same, both lowes and hd carry them here just have to measure and pick them up......when the wallets a bit thicker. Yes it was a nasty weekend weather wise, I did manage to get some hunting in though, I was done at 830 sat morning, nice little 125# (dressed) 4 pt in the freezer as of tonight. My brother had a great opportunity at a 8pt saturday evening but rain and black powder dont do well together.....pop goes the cap no big bang from the pellets kinda makes ya upset. We didnt get much done at camp this weekend, some clean up and buttoning up for the winter ahead.
Where did you get your cabinets?
Quote from: beckhamk on October 18, 2011, 07:49:21 PM
Where did you get your cabinets?
Got the cabinets at Lowe's in Utica. Seems not all Lowe's carry them in stock. Never seen them down on Long Island. Guess the look is a bit much for city folks! d* Steve, in the last post, noted that Home Depots in upstate NY carry them too.
Steve, I'm jealous you bagged something the first day of the season! I was considering taking up black powder, but can't justify the expense for what would amount to an extra weekend twice the year. Not yet anyway. For now we'll just have to live vicariously through you :D
G
Blackpowder is a whole lot of fun though too. That is if it's the old side lock type of muzzleloader.. One of my addictions. :D
wow, very cool! I can't imagine working on two places concurrently... but they both look great! [cool]
We are thinking of going with those same hickory cabinets from Lowe's or HD as well.
Quote from: metolent on October 19, 2011, 10:36:26 PM
wow, very cool! I can't imagine working on two places concurrently... but they both look great! [cool]
We are thinking of going with those same hickory cabinets from Lowe's or HD as well.
I liked the rough and heavily knotted look. In fact, the center of a few knots have deep grooves and indentations. Each was very different and among the same cabinets, some were smoother and more regular. I chose the rougher. My friend from the city had a look at a closeup photo and asked if I had gotten any money off due to the "damage". :o d*
Just as the temps dropped into the 20's, the stovepipe and roof collar were in! Though the 2x6's in the walls aren't insulated yet, there's enough R-factor in the foam insulation in the roof and behind the siding to keep some heat in. In contrast, there's plenty of insulation in the walls of the guest cabin and knotty pine boards, but with the roof open, the balloon framing lets the heat slip out. Running out of propane at midnight didn't help either! d*
Wood stove is 22 inches from wall. Heat shield on bottom and top result in manufacturer clearance much closer, but better safe than sorry. Wall will also be sheetrocked, spacers set, wonderboard installed, and engineered river rocks set in place.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000607.jpg)
I gave the camp a nickname. Same as mine up here.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000609.jpg)
Guest camp got a stove (a birthday gift) in anticipation of power this season. I guess that will also mean reliable hot water, heat, and the like.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000595.jpg)
A beautiful sight just behind the guest camp. I set myself up not far off.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000597.jpg)
Beats any day at work!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000573.jpg)
Best view in the house:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000577.jpg)
Water collection runs from steel roof to rainbarrel, to intake of pump, through filter, to shower/toilet.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000550.jpg)
50Watts. Luckily, house faces almost exactly true south.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/P1000565.jpg)
Thanksgiving weekend. Insulated behind woodstove, put up 5/8" Type X sheetrock, vapor barrier, lattice of 1.5" steel studs and duraraock bolted with 6" lag screws into 2x6 studs. That leaves an open 3" space behind the durarock board. The space is vented from bottom and open on top. Scratch coat was not as easy as I thought but went fairly well. How the cultured stones, some weighing a few pounds will adhere after being "buttered" escapes me. Well, guess I'll have to see for myself next week. For now, back to my day job.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/015-3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/016-3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/020-4.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/021-4.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/057-2.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/061-2.jpg)
Next week:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/048-4.jpg)
very nice.....will be doing similar next summer behind our stove only will be flat stone from our land.....I think thats all that grows there. Got any meat in the freezer yet?
Steve
Thanks Steve. Unfortunately, nothing in the freezer. I have one week left unless I buy a muzzle loader. Plenty scat, tracks, and roadkill. From the stand and blind, nothing. Cams, nothing. I know they wait for my truck to leave, then they sit around my fire ring drinking my beer.
I bought the Stonecraft from Lowes at around $50 a box. got three boxes total, so not bad. Only drawback is if you really look closely, you can tell. Also, there are very light chalky scratches on the surfaces from shipping. I'm not sure how to cover that or smooth that out. I may mix some small real stones from the creek to fill the larger gaps and add some realism. After I finished, I realized an error I made. The tarpaper I used as a vapor barrier should have been over the durarock cement board. I was thinking, keep the paper away from heat. I set it against the sheetrock, 3 inches behind the durarock. It should have been used as a bond breaker just behind the lath. Hopefully it ends up having little impact on anything.
Good luck on the final weeks hunting. I'm always looking for more photos in your thread. BTW, I was up in Boonville buying a lamp I found on CraigsList. You're not far from there I gather?
Cheers,
Glenn
Good luck on the final weeks hunting. I'm always looking for more photos in your thread. BTW, I was up in Boonville buying a lamp I found on CraigsList. You're not far from there I gather?
Cheers,
Glenn
[/quote]
Im about 45 minutes to an hour from boonville, or so....Hunting has been poor for us this year too. The weather has been against us since day one I believe. Our family did manage to put 6 in the freezers so far but it has been very tough
Adirondoc, everything looks great :) Glenn says all you need now is a zipline from your hunting stand ;D
Thanks, Sassy. Boards are stained and go up later this month followed by birch flooring. BTW, I like Glenn's idea. It actually beats my idea of hanging vines in each tree back to the cabin. I could swoop down on a deer like Rambo with a knife in my teeth. More likely, I'll end up looking like the Santa that failed at rappelling in at the mall. Think I'll keep my feet on the ground! :P
I'd had high hopes this summer that my two propane fired on-demand water heaters would be as awesome as the ads proclaimed. Sadly, the first, albeit an entry level model, failed to trigger, ran water ranging from ice water to scalding all in one run, and couldn't keep a steady temp. It lasted three months before failing to ignite at all. The second, a larger unit, was much better, but also suffered from what others have called a "cold water sandwich", in the middle of an otherwise enjoyable shower. Tragically, even with the drain plug opened, it seems the unit was damaged by a freeze. That led me to do a bit of research on these on-demand type of heaters and found at least a few articles that seemed to show maybe the benefits are far short of the claims made.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/water-heaters/tankless-water-heaters/overview/tankless-water-heaters-ov.htm
Here's a few lines from consumer reports:
" they [on demand] cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models"
"We didn't test electric tankless heaters because many can't deliver hot water fast enough to replace a conventional water heater if groundÂwater is cold". Yes, like the 33 degree water in my storage tank.
"inconsistent water temperatures were a common complaint among our poll respondents", "you'll receive a momentary "cold-water sandwich" between the old and new hot water." Don't I know it.. Try showering in 45 degree bathroom only to get doused with ice water for a moment. "Adding a storage tank can resolve some of these problems, but most people go with tankless because they want to get rid of tanks."
"a tankless water heater's burner might not ignite when you try to get just a trickle of hot water for, say, shaving". Yeah, or perhaps trying to ration water from my precious 55 gallon rain barrel.
I'm planning on building a small dog house shed up against the back of the guest cabin next weekend. I'll super insulate it and install a 38 gallon shorty electric heater with storage tank and wrap an additional blanket on it. A switch goes on when I arrive and turns off when I leave at the end of my stay. The unit, being the lowest point, will drain easily at a single point. Perhaps it's been said before, but sometimes the tried and true stuff is best. I'm looking forward to a nice hot shower.
Cheers,
Doc
Great info doc - thanks for sharing! I've been wanting a tankless - cause it sounds like it should be great. Apparently not!
Fwiw, I put a lot of stock (and $$) into amazon based on their product ratings. Also, gotta love their Prime for shipping etc. also great (online) customer support inc. returns. Treadmills to toothpaste!
Thanks Duncan. I've been an Amazon Prime member since last year. I've recommended it to everyone I know. My solar panel, log splitter, and a bunch of other things, all shipped for free. I must have saved hundreds this year on shipping alone. No taxes, no mall lines, and I love getting my things two days later. You can't beat it with a stick! I also watch Amazon's free movies and videos, and lately, use my kindle to "borrow" books from their online lending library.
I've had Lowe's reject some of my reviews if they are less than perfect, while others have been more critical but allowed. Not sure what their policy is. I actually rely on online communities like country plans for more in depth info on major purchases. I wish there was a bona-fide online review section here as well for the things I think we've all needed for our cabins.
Well, I'm going out back to put together the walls of the future shed. Cheers, and thanks for the reply!
Glenn
Doc - Thank You! Good report on important information. I'm going to add this link to the reference section so it will be easier to find.
Tankless heaters are great space savers but a small undercounter tank model may be a better choice for small cabins.
Link to Reference thread: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11588.msg148797#msg148797
Thanks, John. I've been trying to really get right down to the crux of the matter for a while now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I now gather, clearly, both on-demand heaters and conventional tank heaters both heat water as a function. Both will require similar energy to heat a given amount of water a given degree. The savings and efficiency lies in what happens when we're not using the water as opposed to using it. So if you're gone for a month, and turn off your conventional water heater, there is no net difference in energy use or efficiency. When the units are both heating water for immediate use, there is also no difference in energy used. So it would seem the real differences occur during periods where, say, there is the anticipation of future use. As I and many others spend the weekend at the camp, then head home for 2 weeks, a conventional heater would stay off until I got there, rivaling an on-demand for its zero energy consumption. Only for the 3 days at camp would there be much difference, and then, it would be an on-demand heater with it's theoretically stellar efficiency, vs. keeping a 30 gallon tank hot. With excellent insulation, the tank would increase it's efficiency. That narrows the game considerably. Cheaper, easier to repair and drain, vs. space saving, and high efficiency. The efficiency disadvantage over a three day period, twice monthly adds up to a few dollars I'd gather. For me, that's just not something worth crowing about.
Yes the advantage of the tankless system lies in the elimination of the standby losses - when the tank is heated up and losing heat that isn't helping heat water. Another advantage is that you do not have to heat the tank water up to temp before you can use hot water. You can use it more quickly.
If you have the tank on only a few days a month and turn it off between visits then the standby losses are not a big deal. The running costs of the tank and tankless systems would likely be close. The better the tank and the pipes are insulated the lower the standby losses so the difference becomes even less. On the other hand, leaving the tank on could result in 30% or more of the water heating cost going into standby losses.
http://oikos.com/library/energy_outlet/water_heaters.html (http://oikos.com/library/energy_outlet/water_heaters.html) - more info here.
I read an account online (so it must be true, right?) of someone who hooked a Kill-A-Watt meter to their electric water heater to measure the standby losses. They were surprisingly little. It was something like $20/year to just leave it plugged in but not use any water. I just did a quick search online and came up with similar numbers. Maybe not even worth it to disconnect and drain.
Alan
An unusually warm January weekend allowed a trip North and to finish some stonework behind the woodstove. My yellow birch trees were milled, dried, and made ready. Birch floor went down and initial two coats of poly applied. Pine boards are going up. Decided on a light tan stain that brings out the grain, and beveled the ends to get away from the common T&G look. Turned my attention to the stone wall and had no problems getting the stones onto the scratch coat. I ran out of cultured stones so I used around 40% real stones found in the creek and around the cabin. I was worried about how the mortar pointing would turn out since I'd never done anything like it before. Turned out what first looked terrible/sloppy ended well after scraping with a pointing tool and stiff brush. I was pleased that the actual stones added realism and variety. With the floor down and walls going up it's starting to look less like a garage and more like a cozy space.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/winter11-12/016.jpg)
Can you tell which stones are cultured and which are real? Sometimes I couldn't.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/winter11-12/099.jpg)
I felt like a pastry chef and when it was over, my hands were sore from all the squeezing the grout bag.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/winter11-12/150.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/winter11-12/155.jpg)
Done for the weekend.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/170-1.jpg)
Very sharp!! I will be doing similar stone work behind our stove too and Im sure I will be asking a few questions (having never done it either). Congratulations on a job well done.
Your place is really coming along, I love the river rock. We also plan on doing something like that behind our wood burning stove. Great job!! :)
Thanks! It's been a labor of love and a "learn as you go". Fun fun fun
Still working, despite the snow. Funny to see the 2 mile trail in was actually plowed. Last year I was up at camp until last week of December. This winter it seems I'll keep at it as long as I can get in. Guest camp got a utility pole at the roadway, 300ft primary line and transformer box, and 250ft secondary trench. Dad and I built the meter pan framing ready to put in the ground when the backhoe is here again. All the boards we stained are up. It's the bedrooms next, followed by doors. Some small amount of water seems to have gotten into the conduit from the house to the solar panel rack making wiring it impossible until it thaws. In the meantime, wiring the cabin is in full swing. Breaker panel, inverter, solar charge controller, and batteries all arranged and mounted.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/077-1.jpg)
Future kitchen:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/076-1.jpg)
Not much snow this year:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/052-3.jpg)
An old pine log outside that became a mantle. While it didn't have the bark, it does have worm grooves and knots. I'll stain it slightly darker for more effect. A chevron pattern in the pine boards gave a break from all the horizontals and pulls the eye to the center of the room.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/032-3.jpg)
Loft:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/004-3.jpg)
The boards had to be scribed to fit in and around every log. The small stuff takes much longer.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/038-2.jpg)
What's up Doc? I know that's corny but I couldn't help myself. (new poster here; fooling around seems to be well tolerated) I adore the way you used the logs. And the openess of the main floor living space is wonderful. I'd want lots of lights so I could see the handiwork better at night. ;D A bit counterproductive when you're using sun power. :-\
It looks great and gives me inspiration to tackle something bigger! Maybe this summer.
looks very nice, Im glad you are still able to get in to camp with a vehicle. This winter is one for the records so far. Keep up the good work I definately get ideas from looking at your project.
Steve
All I've got to say is WOW!!!!!!!!!! :)
I must ask, what did you use for the flooring in the upstairs loft?
Looks real nice. I like the short pieces of vertical T&G at the top of the walls.
Alan
Upstairs flooring is pine T&G that makes up the subflooring. It's supported only by the logs below. There is nothing on top of it. What made this nice was that from below, it looks finished, and after sanding and poly, it's finished on top as well. That saved alot of time and hassle.
Thanks Alan, it was easier to scribe the pine boards vertically to fit around the logs since I didn't need to pound the last T&G in place with the log's greater middle diameter in the way.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/060-2.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/062-4.jpg)
My yellow birch became my downstairs flooring. Cut 2" for main living area, and 4" in bedrooms. I had it cut so as to bring out as much "curl" as possible and was pleased with the results. You can see the curls on the photo below.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/067-4.jpg)
4" in the bedrooms gave a little change to the 2" used elsewhere.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/070-3.jpg)
National Grid dropped the primary and transformer in despite frozen ground. I was able to lay out the remaining 250ft of service entrance cable with dad, who helped put up the meter pan and breaker panel. Next step, get the temporary service certificate and do the breaker panel in the guest cabin.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/003-4.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/004-4.jpg)
$2500 to drop a pole and get 300ft of primary, $1700 for the 500 ft of trench, $600 for 300ft of 100 amp service cable, and a couple hundred for meter pan, breaker panel, conduit, etc.. Gosh! It really adds up... but what can I do?
We spent our first night at the main cabin this last weekend. No propane heaters here, only the wood stove. Temps were in the 20's overnight and 40's during the day. I must say, the stove heated the cabin beautifully, but as suspected in my original design, the two bedrooms in the back were cold, but not bad enough to bother dad, who slept in the bunk. I'll be hanging the 60" ceiling fan from the log in main room, over the wood stove. Hopefully, this will circulate enough air to raise the bedroom temps a few degrees. I stayed upstairs and found it very warm.. maybe a bit too warm for my taste.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/072-2.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/071-3.jpg)
Looking past the kitchen, you can see the doorways to the bedrooms. I scored the white gas range from craigs list. $180 for stove and 100lb tank. Money saved and less junk in a land fill. I hadn't filled the tank and have no line or regulator yet, so cooking had to be done on the wood stove. No problem!
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/048-6.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/040-4.jpg)
Ran a 14-2 wire behind the log to the kitchen and put in a track. Three copper lights with floods for the kitchen. At 13W each CFL, that's not too bad.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/057-4.jpg)
I had agonized over the color of the pine T&G boards. I just didn't want to go with the same very light natural look I see on virtually every cabin wall (including my guest cabin), so I went with early american stain. The darker look brought out more grain, gave it a darker, more rustic appearance that I was looking for. I was happy with the way it came out.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/052-4.jpg)
Can't wait until spring, when I can really get under way!
I love the logs. is this a 30x30?
I take it the logs were lifed with a crane?
Made out of logs with one cut take of the top to thickenss them easily?
Quote from: AdironDoc on February 22, 2012, 09:34:48 AMGosh! It really adds up... but what can I do?
Yes, it adds up quick. Utility wanted $5.83 a foot to do the job, I saved about $2/ft doing the ditch work myself. Hoping and praying they will have the meter in place by next weekend so I can have a little heat in my trailer
That's not so bad doc.
NYSE&G gives the first 500 ft free, then $12.50 a foot after that. Plus they charge a $300 easement fee across every property they have to cross. They quoted me $8,000 for 1000 ft. I went solar
Everything looks great doc.
Quote from: umtallguy on February 22, 2012, 10:39:06 AM
I love the logs. is this a 30x30?
I take it the logs were lifed with a crane?
Thanks, they are the pine removed from the lot. The cabin is 20 x 40. The logs were hand-peeled by my neighbor, dried in his mill, and lifted using his logging equipment. Cabin is log frame with 2 by's in between. Sort of a hybrid that he enjoys putting together because of the ease of running wires, pipes and insulating while retaining the "log" look. This cabin is solar. The guest camp I own across the creek has road frontage and will soon enjoy heat, lights and hot water. I'm sure the expense of running power in will be long forgotten when I take my first long hot shower. Until the taxes go up that is.. :P :P
Doc,
Nice to see you are able to continue progress, looks very nice. I like the slightly darker look on the pine also. Gotta love NYS and taxes......Im just waiting for my assessment to jump, or not......
I figure I have another month at least before I can drive the truck in to mine, til then its snowmobile and that makes getting bigger stuff in there slightly challenging.
Dont forget to enjoy the fruits of your labor once in a while too.
Steve
I got really lucky with electric installation here in Wisconsin. WPS originally quoted me a little over $1000 for a buried line 250ft to my meter base. After they dug it in and hooked everything up, we got a refund check. It ended up only costing us $380.
Beautiful work! I love the exposed timber rafters and craftsmanship.
Quote from: MWAndrus on February 23, 2012, 07:16:26 PM
I got really lucky with electric installation here in Wisconsin. WPS originally quoted me a little over $1000 for a buried line 250ft to my meter base. After they dug it in and hooked everything up, we got a refund check. It ended up only costing us $380.
Tell us some more about that! I've got land up near Spooner... and i'm about 1200' I figure from the power.... hoping someone else brings it further down the private road before I build at 4-6$ / foot.
Ahhh, the snows are gone and work gets underway at last! A lovely easter weekend at camp with my father. What a way to kick the year off.
Priorities: Water source, bathroom, kitchen
Getting railings together
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/c9d69d13.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/ce0138a6.jpg)
Used some yellow birch I cut down to make furniture:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/f9132325.jpg)
Solar was working well until 3pm shade set in.. hand me a chainsaw?
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/61a8c444.jpg)
Hung the cabinets and used boards for countertop. Just had to add the edging for overhang.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/99a0fd5b.jpg)
Finally looking cozy..
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/a6331ce8.jpg)
View from the great room:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2e7f6fbc.jpg)
View of loft:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/ccdd3f1e.jpg)
Looking good Doc!
Can't wait to get up and get some more work done on my camp!
Lots of fine work there. Rustic with a nice polish!
Nice build! I see on your wood stove you have one of those heat powered fans, how do you like that and does it move much air?
Quote from: John Raabe on April 11, 2012, 06:38:11 PM
Lots of fine work there. Rustic with a nice polish!
Thanks guys. Not quite done yet but it's shaping up. I'm kind of wondering now... When it's finished, will i be satisfied to just sit down and relax? In the words of a popular song, "and when it's over, is it really over?..it never ends.."
Quote from: beckhamk on April 12, 2012, 07:59:43 PM
Nice build! I see on your wood stove you have one of those heat powered fans, how do you like that and does it move much air?
It spins quite fast and moves a bit of air, but, in a space that large, it's more of a conversation piece :P
Had a great weekend at the camp. With the exception of permanent stairs, a septic tank and permanent hose to the spring box, it seems to be nearing finished (as are my funds!). The powers had a change in heart and ruled that my loft counts as a bedroom, thus, I will be assessed at a "3 bedroom house" rate.
Cleared out more hemlock by the creek which I will soon mill into dimensional lumber.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/ac6c47a8.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/694363ea.jpg)
Had the pine from last season made into some barn style interior doors.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/4a9b2794.jpg)
Unlike the more rustic look of the 8" stained boards, I opted for 4" unstained in the bathroom. I wanted to keep things lighter and brighter.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/e520edda.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2bb36047.jpg)
Earlier flood conditions knocked down the bridge up the creek. Seems some of it ended up on the bank of my camp a bit downstream. What I thought was a beaver dam, now uncovered, ended up being a bunch of iron. Here the creek is comparatively low.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/403729aa.jpg)
With all the sharp angles of the white clad windows against the rustic wood, I thought I'd soften that impact a bit with some window treatments. I'm thinking something with deep colors, and campy. Of course, that's not my strong point.. :P
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/ba5bfbad.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/springbox-1.jpg)
The springbox was filling as fast as I could pump out with my two 12V pumps. I resorted to a 120v well pump with the genny which at least dropped the level to around 1ft. I got in and found my rubber boots gave me an inch to spare as I cleaned out dead salamanders, boards, roofing shingles and mud. The two pipes I had noted earlier were completely plugged up so I filled them permanently. I will run a new overflow pipe.
Good news was that shovelling even a 6 inch hole into dirt on the hillside of the box resulted in immediate water. Towards the swamp side, very little. At least I know the water is coming from the ground and not backfeeding from the marsh. Also that there's a proper porous bottom, and its from the hill. the box is 38" by 72". With the water rising easily a foot an hour when near empty, that's a very high refresh rate (~135 gallons/hr). I threw in a couple gallons of clorox, scrubbed the walls, got the large debris out (despite remaining mud on the bottom), set a ring of 2x4 around the lip, and covered her up with weatherproof boards. Next step will be the 12V shurflo pump to the storage tank I have 60 feet up the hill. I'll run it off a battery set and my 50w PV panel. Anyone know where I can find a switch that will come on when the water level runs low in the storage barrel? All the bilge float switches I see turn off when the level drops. Maybe I can mount it upside down?
One of the critters evicted from my spring box.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/14a034d0.jpg)
Hey, at least they're still alive, unlike the ones that were found in the pipes Glenn used to drink out of as a kid in Oregon ::) When it started taking 3 minutes for a glass of water to fill up, they speedily went out & checked the pipes... (it only took them 3 wks to get around to it) [waiting] Adirondoc, have to tell you, they didn't find any pretty salamanders like you did - theirs were gray & rotting, just on the point of being liquified, IIRC, adding a special flavor to the drinking water [yuk] heh heh
Well..... we all lived through it as I recall, and nary a bellyache either... [waiting]
You'll seldom find water with that particular flavor.... [ouch]
BTW, you've done a beautiful job on your cabin!
Quote from: Sassy on May 12, 2012, 11:36:01 PM
Hey, at least they're still alive, unlike the ones that were found in the pipes Glenn used to drink out of as a kid in Oregon ::) When it started taking 3 minutes for a glass of water to fill up, they speedily went out & checked the pipes... (it only took them 3 wks to get around to it) [waiting] Adirondoc, have to tell you, they didn't find any pretty salamanders like you did - theirs were gray & rotting, just on the point of being liquified, IIRC, adding a special flavor to the drinking water [yuk] heh heh
I had thrown a gallon of bleach into the murky water 2 weeks back and felt terrible when, on returning, I saw several salamanders. Certain they were dead, I tried to fish them out but they swam under. Certainly the cleanest specimens by that time and their spots hadn't faded like my jeans. This time, I did fish a gelatinized critter out.. not much left but his bones. No wonder the bacterial test was positive some time back. Thank God I didn't take a few swigs beforehand. Yack! That's a "flavor" I'd gladly do without!
I like those doors.
I'd like to make one of those doors with the pine I've milled.....any chance you can get some more pictures uploaded? Details?
Did you check out Backwoods Solar's section on pumps and accessories? I think their float will work for your needs too.
Keep up the posts! I love the pictures! Makes me cabin sick (like home sick but for my cabin) :)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/c9d69d13.jpg)
Pictures like that one just make me itch to get home from work and get woodworking!
Thanksl. I asked my neighbor the cabinetmaker/mill owner to make me up some pine doors that look like barn doors using T&G. I'll take some closer photos next weekend and measure them up. I've been looking at the link you sent and wondering if I will buy the float.
Doc
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/4a9b2794.jpg)
I'd love to know what he did, and how it went together -- it looks a lot like what I've been wanting to do with T&G
Looks like he used a whole lotta screws! ... beautiful door, tho. Makes me want to build something that could i\use a door like that :)
Quote from: OlJarhead on May 31, 2012, 04:38:49 PM
I'd like to make one of those doors with the pine I've milled.....any chance you can get some more pictures uploaded? Details?
Regular T&G pine boards on hallway side. Room-side of doors is made as follows:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/2f4f4de3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/914719a6.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/666084d3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/15530a23.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/4bab05f3.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/44b4bf37.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/ceee7c37.jpg)
I like the stain color.
Quote from: new land owner on June 11, 2012, 08:42:13 PM
I like the stain color.
Thanks! I put up regular knotty pine TnG in the guest camp but got so tired of seeing the same old thing in everyone's place, I decided to change it up just a tad in the main camp. No more clear, light, Ikea look. The stain is early american, which to my mind, brings out much more character in the wood. The boards range from clear, to very uneven, knotty, and even beat-up looking. It also darkens it enough to look more rustic. It was exactly what I wanted. Hello hunting cabin. :)
Very interesting door. Seems it's 3/4" planks (maybe T&G) with 3/4" boards used to tie it all together and screws securing it.
Very simple and very rustic....hmmmm....I like it!
Thanks
Hi Glenn, Great going! Youve sure done alot since you started groundbreaking your cabin. Great country cabin!love Rune
Quote from: AdironDoc on June 11, 2012, 11:05:58 PM
Thanks! I put up regular knotty pine TnG in the guest camp but got so tired of seeing the same old thing in everyone's place, I decided to change it up just a tad in the main camp. No more clear, light, Ikea look. The stain is early american, which to my mind, brings out much more character in the wood. The boards range from clear, to very uneven, knotty, and even beat-up looking. It also darkens it enough to look more rustic. It was exactly what I wanted. Hello hunting cabin. :)
I agree with what you say about the clear pine look. My plan is to do a waincotting 42" high and drywall about that. I was asking about the strain color because I saw something similar at a restaraunt close to my camp and am going to do both the waincotting and the wood ceilings with that color stain.
Quote from: new land owner on June 12, 2012, 07:43:02 PM
I agree with what you say about the clear pine look. My plan is to do a waincotting 42" high and drywall about that. I was asking about the strain color because I saw something similar at a restaraunt close to my camp and am going to do both the waincotting and the wood ceilings with that color stain.
There's a restaurant in the Poconos that has exactly that. The wainscotting and ceiling and moldings are all medium brown. The wall is drywall painted some sort of muted green (hunter?) With some cream colored deer in frames, a couple wood ducks on a shelf, and rifles on the wall. Looks great.
Quote from: frankbjorn on June 12, 2012, 06:10:14 PM
Hi Glenn, Great going! Youve sure done alot since you started groundbreaking your cabin. Great country cabin!love Rune
Thanks, brother. You'll have to come up and see it when you can. Maybe when Stein comes up from Florida next month, we'll grab dad and all get together. That will be a first.
Love Glenn
Been hearing more howling than ever and also bear scat all around the camp. Could be the mild winter led to a rise in populations.. My neighbor caught this on the border of my camp in the fall and something tells me they're back even stronger this year.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/20120525_180607.jpg)
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/20120525_180617.jpg)
Got a 170 New York acres of secluded wooded bliss and a stream to boot. To me, it's beautiful. But, I took a vacation over the last two weeks and saw some sights that shame any I've ever seen. I must admit, Colorado and Wyoming have got to be some of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. You can't look in any direction without thinking it's a postcard. Forget Aruba, maybe one day I'll build a small cabin up in the hills west of Colorado Springs! Seems less expensive that most places around here. I've been around the world rarely saw places that combined such stunning beauty, accessibility to nice town/city, and reasonable prices. I may work in the city, but somewhere in me is a cowboy ready to gallop out into the old west! :)
I've heard of a horse with no name, but a town?
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/483292_4260382595765_1082883106_n.jpg)
Wyoming:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/IMG_1406.jpg)
Colorado Springs:(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/IMG_0905.jpg)
Hiking through a remote area, saw plenty of roaming bison, mule deer and whitetails. Cooled my heels in this trout stream.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/creek.jpg)
Colorado/Wyoming border:
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/Colorado1.jpg)
as a truck driver wy is the most miserable state in the country so i think you need mental help. lol
come back next month when it starts snowing. did you know a WY windsock is a length of 5/8" chain?
friends of mine just bought land in southern CO. COA is certainly scenic. i turned them onto this site since they are going to build.
Quote from: CjAl on July 11, 2012, 03:06:29 PM
as a truck driver wy is the most miserable state in the country so i think you need mental help. lol
come back next month when it starts snowing. did you know a WY windsock is a length of 5/8" chain?
friends of mine just bought land in southern CO. COA is certainly scenic. i turned them onto this site since they are going to build.
lol, yes, the trip north on I-25... 8 hours of endless sand and sagebrush. Wasn't interesting until I got to Dubois. Northwestern Wyoming makes up for it with staggering peaks and green valleys, no? Loved Jackson Hole, and Yellowstone was all that. 500K state population?.. d* That's less cars than I pass leaving the city each night. Love the idea of being where nobody is on your ***, hassling you over this and that. Can't say I love the winters, though, even with my roots 300 miles north of the Polar Circle following reindeer across glacial tundra. Maybe I'd better be a Colorado snowbird..
my favorite area is the columbia river gorge between wa and or. i also really like utah but that is probably the jeeper in me
Quote from: CjAl on July 11, 2012, 04:11:20 PM
i also really like utah but that is probably the jeeper in me
I hear that! Wasn't in my jeep :-\ Had a economy rental. I explored the hills outside Rock Springs, WY, and noticed a number of County "Roads" marked with signs and all. As they climbing into the hills and mountains, they became little more than dirt trails with ditches and ravines cutting through them. Creeped me out being in that Hyundai Forte so I always turned back. Creeped out driving a few feet from the edges of the roads up to Colorado's Mt. Evans too. Me, the Hyundai rental, and 14,000 ft with certain death. Jeeping would have rocked. Maybe next time...
Quote from: AdironDoc on July 11, 2012, 02:30:55 PM
I may work in the city, but somewhere in me is a cowboy ready to gallop out into the old west! :)
I'm the same way, my city life is a complete 180 from my cabin life.
Quote from: pmichelsen on July 11, 2012, 05:24:42 PM
I'm the same way, my city life is a complete 180 from my cabin life.
Yeah, I think we're all the same in that regard. When we can't actually be at our cabins, we know they're there waiting for our return. An antidote for the ordinary. If I'm looking a bit lost in thought at work, my employees say, "don't disturb him, he's back at his cabin" :P
Quote from: CjAl on July 11, 2012, 04:11:20 PM
my favorite area is the columbia river gorge between wa and or. i also really like utah but that is probably the jeeper in me
That's my home ;)
But I like the gorge much further north above vantage :) But then, somewhere up there is where my cabin is ;)
a good friend of mine lives on top of a mtn. a ways north of the Dalles. i just love the area. i ran potatoes and onion out of there for years
Had a great weekend up at the camp. Septic is in. Now I need to figure out where to get my water. The spring box project has been frustrating owing to the length of the run, and the need to put a solar system at the pump. My neighbor (1/2 mile through the forest) just got a dug well. They hit springwater at 8ft with tremendous refresh rate. My builder did it for her and witched it before digging. I've got similar topography, a low sloping area not 100ft from my back porch. I've asked him to witch it. Not sure I buy into that, but heck, it's worth a go. Like he noted, "dem der spruce are a water tree and if'n ya hit water now during this powerful dry spell, ya ain't never gotta worry none". Sounds reasonable.
Did I get any actual work done? Well, only if you consider this work.. :P
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/149-2.jpg)
I do a little work like that at my place almost every weekend also :)
Mark Twain wrote the coldest winter I ever spent was the summer I spent in San Francisco. I guess he must have skipped Wy. I love the Columbia River Gorge from The Dalles down to Bridle Veil. I seen a couple spots pretty live able up toward the Canada border.
Quote from: AdironDoc on July 11, 2012, 03:43:55 PM
SNIP.......................................... Love the idea of being where nobody is on your ***, hassling you over this and that. Can't say I love the winters, though, even with my roots 300 miles north of the Polar Circle following reindeer across glacial tundra. Maybe I'd better be a Colorado snowbird..
OH they are there........ Just takes a might longer to find you that's all. Every state has its quota of *** crawlers. They are assigned per capita.
Quote from: AdironDoc on July 11, 2012, 02:30:55 PM
SNIP.......................................................
I may work in the city, but somewhere in me is a cowboy ready to gallop out into the old west! :)
SNIP........................................................
Be careful there cowboy, lest you wake up ridin' an oily horse with sleet running off your hat down the back of your neck. Whiles your lookin' for three head of cows and calves that failed to gather with the other cows when you gathered them here a couple weeks ago. Your out $1600 to $1800 per pair plus most livestock people do not want to see any animal end up in a bad way. You loose sleep, you freeze and you do what ever it takes to get them all in. All you know and have to go on is you have found fresh tracks and they are some where in this big old ten thousand acre pasture and the sleet is turning to snow. Mean while your out three bulls at $2000 a pop that are more or likely holed up in some quakey grove in another allotment that right now seem to be a half day away.
I have known a few very educated people that left their old life style for such.......... and loved it....... :D Then there was even a ION cowboy (Idaho, Oregon, Nevada) that was a Shakespearean actor turnedin to a for hire cowboy and a good one. He so I hear would entertain those he rode with recitin' the Merry Wives of Windsor, King Lear or Romeo and Juliet. Well if you muffed a line it was certainly not a big deal!
There was a ranch down by Bridgeport, Ca that offered such a menu for professionals such as yourself. They came every year and helped on the ranch but not all at once. They threw ropes, worked the cattle in the spring, moved the cattle, doctored sore eyes and bad feet. My uncle knew the place and the history of it. Sounded like it was a real treat for those so inclined. Sort of a dude ranch but not really, more of a working cattle ranch, very little glitz and glimmer but real cattle work. Not the morning trail ride be back at noon for a bite and off to nap or the boutique so you can scurry back for the real chuck wagon dinner at six.....
Before you throw your hat at Co. come to Idaho, Doc. You will not believe it. Most people are freeway bound and never see anywhere anymore. Idaho is one of the worst states in the Union for that. They drive I-84 down the Snake River Plain. It sort of reminds you of Kansas or Oklahoma. But get a few miles to the north or the south and it is a different world.
I witched my well and dug 12 feet...........all the water I will ever need, crystal clear and cold. Dug a 12 x 14 hole 12 feet deep, let it fill and pumped it with a trash pump for 2 weeks. I then set a 3 foot cement tile on about a 6" bed of stone, a 6" sched 40 PVC through the cap on the tile and filled around with a triaxle load of cobble stone (2-4") then back filled with clay. I have about a 1300-1500 gallon resorvoir that recovers in about 7 hours when pumped dry. Cost me about $400 total.
Quote from: nysono on July 18, 2012, 05:39:24 AM
I witched my well and dug 12 feet...........all the water I will ever need, crystal clear and cold. Dug a 12 x 14 hole 12 feet deep, let it fill and pumped it with a trash pump for 2 weeks. I then set a 3 foot cement tile on about a 6" bed of stone, a 6" sched 40 PVC through the cap on the tile and filled around with a triaxle load of cobble stone (2-4") then back filled with clay. I have about a 1300-1500 gallon resorvoir that recovers in about 7 hours when pumped dry. Cost me about $400 total.
That's great! Hopefully, mine will be at least half as successful as yours. BTW, how do you do the initial dig? I wish there was a way of not committing before knowing if there's water. I don't own a backhoe so will pay for every effort. My neighbor hit water at 7-8 ft. A two person auger, earth auger bit and two 4ft bit extensions? Still sounds like heavy work since the extensions don't have any flange to lift dirt.. I've seen backhoes with augers.
Hmm.. there should be a quick and simple way of testing?
Glenn
Quote from: AdironDoc on July 18, 2012, 08:45:53 AM
That's great! Hopefully, mine will be at least half as successful as yours. BTW, how do you do the initial dig? I wish there was a way of not committing before knowing if there's water. I don't own a backhoe so will pay for every effort. My neighbor hit water at 7-8 ft. A two person auger, earth auger bit and two 4ft bit extensions? Still sounds like heavy work since the extensions don't have any flange to lift dirt.. I've seen backhoes with augers.
Hmm.. there should be a quick and simple way of testing?
Glenn
I took the chance after myself and my brother witched it and came up with the same thing. 1 vein going norht and south and 2 crossing it east to west within about 10 feet. I am lucky that the guy that has the camp near me has lots of heavy equipment and he has given me use of it for the cost of fuel. So on Mother's day this year we dug a big hole and crossed our fingers. As we got down to the 8-9 foot mark we counld see small veins coming in, just a trickle, down another 2 feet and more started. I kept pumping the hole out everyday for 2 weeks, those veins kept getting a little bigger each time. After the 2 weeks we stoned the bottom, set the tile and went from there. I kept pumping with a trash pump down the stand pipe for about 3 more weeks just to get all of the sediment washed through before setting the submersible. As dry as things are right now, if you have any moisture, cattails, cowslips or other wet loving vegetation I would get a douser up there and have them take a look.
Sounds great and I'm looking forward to scouting the low lying area immediately surrounding the camp. I also bought a hand held earth auger to play with. I watched people on youtube digging their wells, 10ft in a hour and up to 30ft with lengths of pipe for an extension. Seemed like an interesting way to spend an afternoon. Hopefully I hit sand, not rocks.
A few people dropped a length of PVC in their newly made hole, followed by their well pump. If not for a well pipe, I'd at least see if there's any wetness before committing to a big dig. I can hand auger to 15ft or so, drop in a length of wood in with a rag on the end, and see if it comes up soaked. If it's all a wash, it'll at least give me the exercise I've been lacking! I'll survey the plants this weekend. Been bone dry, so any moist areas I see could be a winner. No cattails, but the whole forest is Spruce and fern, which I believe like it moist.
you could try withching yourself, I had never done it until a few years ago. 2 pieces of brazing rod works great, if you interested in trying it PM me for more details.
Quote from: nysono on July 20, 2012, 05:22:59 AM
you could try withching yourself, I had never done it until a few years ago. 2 pieces of brazing rod works great, if you interested in trying it PM me for more details.
Thanks for messaging me. My friend the builder and I gave a try at witching yesterday [cool]. Walked down the slope not 40ft from the corner of my camp and crossed a vein three times. The skeptic in me kept a close eye on the dowser's hands to discern any noticeable movement that would cross his rods. Saw nothing but the two rods jump as if something hit them. If he had done it intentionally, I expected some sudden motion, a momentary lag, and rod movement. I saw no movement of the hands. The rods are on swivels and can't be quickly rotated. Moreover, he predicted water at the base of the gully. He seemed genuinely surprised to find it half way up the slope. That makes it less likely he "steered" his findings. We walked the vein all the way to the creek bank and though no water was seeping, we did notice that the water there was much colder than the center of the creek. Seems the vein empties into the stream there. Anyway, he's 8 for 8 in hitting pockets for shallow wells at 15ft where most others have 85-150ft wells drilled. We'll see this week if he was right about it. If so, I can say goodbye to the 600ft of tubing, solar pump and panel, and 305gallon storage tank.
A bit hard to see the rods move, but I tried to take a video of him in action. He seemed a bit camera shy at first :o
https://s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/?action=view¤t=20120722_095718.mp4 (https://s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/?action=view¤t=20120722_095718.mp4)
Rods in hand
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/20120722_095607.jpg)
I wanted to hang some curtains to soften all the angles of the windows in the main area. I'm no decorator but I knew I liked the color when I saw it. These toppers don't block light, just add some color and warmth to the room and lessen the effects of the 10 white vinyl clad windows against the logs. I rather like the way it turned out.
(https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/glennjakobsen/20120721_094137.jpg)
Can't wait to hear what happens...
That's the color I would have chosen.