500,000 children dead: Madeleine Albright "the price is worth it"

[Windpower]

"If we have to use force, it is because we are America. We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future."


This panegyric to what is commonly called "American Exceptionalism" could have been composed by any of a number of GOP-aligned media figures, such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, or their legions of local imitators. Those words were actually spoken by Madeleine Albright in 1998, when she was the Clinton administration's Secretary of State. She was defending the U.S. role in enforcing an embargo on Iraq in the aftermath of the first Gulf War in 1991.


Albright had memorably addressed that issue in a different fashion three years earlier during an interview on the CBS program 60 Minutes.


"We have heard that a half million children have died," observed interviewer Leslie Stahl. "I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
Without challenging the statistics, or displaying even a tremor of remorse, Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it."

Watch the clip here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4



read more here compared to early American patriots

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-07%3A00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=1

[NM_Shooter]

WTH are you trying to accomplish by posting something like that? 

[Woodsrule]

It's the "America is bad" post that you see throughout the web. It's a bit like the race-baiting hustlers that appear in various cities when there's a photo op to be had. You know the type. This is the same thing. Bush lied, people died, Bush is Hitler, Bush is bad, the economy is Bush's fault, etc... Now that the media darling Obama is fueling the military, they gotta look back and point fingers at someone else. Hey, Gitmo is still open, the war in Afghanistan is raging, we took out Osama and helped to take out Quaddafi. Not that the deaths of Osama and Quaddafi leave me feeling empty, I rejoice in their demise, but the liberals who now call themselves "progressives" are churning in their Birkenstocks! They oughta go to Starbucks and get a double froth latte with organic goat milk to settle their stomachs.

[Windpower]

WTH are you trying to accomplish by posting something like that? 

could you elaborate on what you mean by "something like that" ?

btw wood, Albright was the Secretary of State for Bill Clinton not Bush

It is not a 'conservative'/'liberal' issue or Democrate/Rebublican
That is a false pardigm that is used to keep us fighting amoungst ourselves instead of bringing the real monsters to trial

[NM_Shooter]

Dredging up some reprehensible topic and posting it.  Granted, we have a target rich environment for that. 

But why do it?  What's the point?  Your thread will be seen by a relatively miniscule amount of folks, and will incite flaming replies. 

Is this a form of entertainment for you?  Venting?  Something deeper? 

Got any happy posts?

[MountainDon]

I have no idea why some folks feel they must post this sort of stuff here. And I don't really care.

Probably the best thing any user/member can do if they find something like annoying is to place the topic in their mental ignore list. Too bad there is not a forum "ignore thread" choice. You can only place an "ignore" on Personal Messages. Whenever the topic pops up with some additional comment posted don't open it. Don't look at it; I know that may be hard to resist, but try hard. If you don't look at it the number of views counter will not increment upwards. Also if nobody makes a comment the topic will slowly be pushed down the list.

If you also find the indicator annoying because you haven't viewed something and really don't want to, there is a solution. After viewing the topics you are interested in click the tab at bottom right of the page. The one marked "MARK ALL MESSAGES AS READ". The marker will disappear.

[considerations]

I do not believe in "collective guilt".  I am an individual, and as such make individual decisions.  If that is Madeline Albright's view, so be it. Clearly she and I have a difference of opinion....but, it does not make "America" (and supposedly de facto all Americans) "bad".  

That same mentality can criticize a President because once elected it seems they are expected to implement their "vision" as though they were a monarch with absolute and arbitrary powers, while all the while those same voices stand ready to squeal like a stuck pig in the event an Executive order is issued....one of the narrowly focused and rare ways a president can circumvent a fractured Congress who's power factions are more concerned with preserving their "Party" than conducting the business of the people with an eye to the greater good.

Sound bytes will make idiots of us all.

[MountainDon]

And if the comments truly bother you there is always the report to moderator link. And remember it's not just for complaints, though that's what it is used for mostly. If somebody does good that would be nice to know too. We can not guarantee any particular action on comments, sort of like our government  .  But I still write letters to Congress as it makes me feel like I am doing something. Look at it the same way here; if no complaints are registered we don't know what you think. Click. Comment if you desire.

[Sassy]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  George Santayana

As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?
Alexis de Tocqueville

Although Windpower posted something from our recent past, we are still empire building...  what, no outrage that so many children died because of our policies, past or present?  Our drone attacks are still killing lots of civilians - oh, just "collateral damage," no worries... 

Guess it's too hard for Americans to look are the realities of war...  of course, not in our own country, we just conduct our wars in other countries. 

A good video  "The Power of Nightmares" is worth watching  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbkvz4hezmU&feature=related  (this is an excerpt from it - you can watch the entire video on Youtube). 

I love the United States of America.  I am disheartened by the direction we have been taking in the last 100 years...  our ability to conduct unending wars was enabled by the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913.  Now, instead of needing to get the voters to agree w/an increase in taxes, they can have the private central bank, the Federal Reserve, print unlimited $$$$...  with most of the American population unaware.  Instead of printing our own money, interest free & loaning it out to the banks at interest, the American people pay the hidden tax of borrowing from the Federal Reserve w/interest which has increased our debt to exorbitant levels.  It also allows the politicians to conduct clandestine & overt operations all over the world w/out the American public knowing much about it.  So many unconstitutional operations are ongoing via the ok of the politicians as the MSM spins their propaganda.

Watch the video on Edward Bernays - The Century of Self  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxfArTAcfM  - good one on propaganda...  it's one I've posted before.

You can look at Rome, read the history - yes, a great nation, accomplished much, but went down the same road we are traveling.  Of course, man being what he is as the Bible describes him - sinful, unrighteous...  what can you expect...  I've quoted verses from the Bible in the book of Romans many times before.  Others may believe that man is becoming better, "evolving" into a higher realm...   I don't see it, but each person is entitled to his own beliefs. 

A lot of times it's hard to look at the cold, hard truth, especially when the finger is pointed back at us - we prefer happy thoughts, but sometimes it has to be done...  sometimes the cancer needs to be acknowledged & removed.  First take the log out of our own eye before removing the speck in another... 

I want our country to last a long time, but sometimes it looks like it is falling the way of Rome, allowing despots to rule to our own destruction, preferring bread & circuses.

[Windpower]

Wheeww 

I thought I had been banned -- couldn't get in to comment for a while

Let me say that I value the people here and their opinions

The real point of the OP was the article by William Grigg (link at the bottom of the post) from which the quote of the top was taken. I didn't know if the Albright thing was common knowledge that's why I posted the youtube Link

I think most of the people here are self reliant and hard working just like the early
Americans were

I think Grigg's article does a good job of contrasting where America is now verses the early years of the Republic.


Nice post Sassy

I don't agree with 'collective guilt' either

All the more shame on the UN and US for punishing the people of Iraq and particulary the old people and children for the 'sins' of their president.

[peternap]

I was a little shocked when I saw the responses.
It is a lighted match near the gas can, but Windpower is a member here in good standing and even if the topic is distasteful, as Sassy said, history repeats itself. Even recent history.

Mountain Don, as always, is the voice of reason. Don't like the subject, don't read it.

This is the second time recently, I've seen attempts to censor unpopular subjects using such terms such as "Hate".

Today is the tenth anniversary of the signing of the Patriot Act. I didn't post anything about it because it's beating a dead horse, but if I had, I certainly wouldn'[t expect to go down in flames over it.

I expect some trolling from new members. I noticed one the other day from another board, who likes to play the devils advocate, just to stir up trouble.
I don't expect it from longtime members. This is one of the few places on the net where we're all friends.

[MountainDon]

Go visit  New Forum Software Has Some New Features

[Gary O]

I was a little shocked when I saw the responses.
It is a lighted match near the gas can, but Windpower is a member here in good standing and even if the topic is distasteful, as Sassy said, history repeats itself. Even recent history.

Mountain Don, as always, is the voice of reason. Don't like the subject, don't read it.

This is the second time recently, I've seen attempts to censor unpopular subjects using such terms such as "Hate".

Today is the tenth anniversary of the signing of the Patriot Act. I didn't post anything about it because it's beating a dead horse, but if I had, I certainly wouldn'[t expect to go down in flames over it.

I expect some trolling from new members. I noticed one the other day from another board, who likes to play the devils advocate, just to stir up trouble.
I don't expect it from longtime members. This is one of the few places on the net where we're all friends.

Wow, you guys can lay it down hard, and yet seemingly remain amicable.
Not used to such social maturity.
Good show gents, jolly good.
Raising the glass.

[Sassy]

GaryO, what about the Ladies?   

[Gary O]

Oh crap!!!!!!
Glenn!
Need a little help here!
Only thing I got is, ladies don't argue like that, so I've not lowered the fairer of our species to the standard measured by testosterone......

(Lord, need a minor miracle here. Amen.)

[Native_NM]

Alternate viewpoints allow everyone the opportunity of self-reflection.  It is easy for any of us to become blinded by our ideology.  Some people here like to post quotes, presumably to allow the community an opportunity for self-reflection.   Here is one for them:


"People are the cause of all the problems. We have too many of them. We need to get rid of some of them, and this is as good a way as any."  - Dr. Charles Wurster

Wurster, of course, is a God to the liberal environmentalists.  One child's death is tragic.  I can't imagine 500,000.  How about millions?  Do a little Google search on "Malaria deaths due to DDT ban" and you will discover that 500,000 is child's play, pardon the terrible pun.  The WHO pegs the number of unnecessary deaths from malaria due to the banning of DDT in the millions.  Currently, over 1 million people a year still die from malaria, most of them children.  The EPA knew the research was faulty, but banned DDT anyway, primarily to further a political agenda.  When it became clear the researched used in making the decision was faulty, internal documents were either marked as "classified" or destroyed.  Some here are worried about shadow bankers disguised as radical Muslim terrorists overthrowing legitimate rulers; I have my own worries...

You like links?  Here's a little sausage for ya....

http://www.eco-imperialism.com/content/article.php3?id=68

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6083944

http://www.aaenvironment.com/DDT.htm

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Environment/ddt_vs_death.htm

http://www.jpands.org/vol9no3/edwards.pdf


Let me put it this way...Windpower (wind turbines) killed more birds and bats last year than DDT killed over 40 years..

[Native_NM]

DDT eradication was first and foremost on the EPA's agenda because it was important for the newly formed agency to demonstrate that it could take bold and decisive steps. Thus, it should come as no surprise that from the outset the EPA process was more political than scientific in nature. The EPA held seven months of hearings, with scientists giving evidence both for and against the use of DDT. At the end of the hearings, the hearing examiner, Edmund Sweeney, ruled that the scientific evidence provided no basis for banning DDT. The head of the EPA, William Ruckelshaus, overturned that ruling, even though he didn't attend a single hour of
the proceedings.


"[W]hile it is clear that the [Klamath Basin] farmers face severe economic hardship, the threat to the survival of the [salmon and sucker] fish is greater."
-- U.S. District Judge Ann L. Aiken, agreeing with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologist Steve Lewis who had decided that the fish in the Upper Klamath Lake and Klamath River need the water more than the farmers.
(Source: "Tightening the Screws," by Henry Lamb, Pennsylvania Landowner, Spring, 2001, page 8. Published by Pennsylvania Landowners' Association, Incorporated, PO Box 391, Waterford, Pennsylvania 16441. Phone & fax: 800-757-5178. E-mail. Website.)

"If you haven't given voluntary human extinction much thought before, the idea of a world with no people in it may seem strange. But, if you give it a chance, I think you might agree that the extinction of Homo sapiens would mean survival for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species . . . . Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental."
-- An excerpt from Wild Earth, (Summer 1991, page 72) a magazine edited by David Foreman, cofounder of Earth First!
(Source: Animal Scam, by Kathleen Marquardt with Herbert M. Levine and Mark LaRochelle, 1993, page 8. Published by Regnery Publishing, Incorporated, An Eagle Publishing, Incorporated, Company, 422 First Street, SE, Suite 300, Washington, DC 20003.)

[glenn kangiser]

A reason for posting something like this....

If we all would quit ignoring the things done in our countries name by our criminal leaders and voice a bit of dissenting opinion possibly the world might begin to be a better place, seeings to how we are the main ones going around the world trashing it and are responsible for more deaths of innocent women , children and civilians than any other country.

After GWB 1991, we did not help Iraq's dieing children, but instead sent manpower to monitor and count the deaths of children from our degradation of their water supply.  Yes... it makes me proud to be an American... sing it Lee Greenwood....

[glenn kangiser]

I wonder if there would be less desire on the part of the sheeple to allow our country carte blanche in killing in our name if we had to look at the blood, women, children etc. that we murder.  It is our country policy to keep it sanitary.

Hell, we can't even see the coffins of our own dead, or our boys twisted mangled missing limbs and faces when hit by a IED. Thanks US for not ruining my dinner.....

[waggin]

Yes, the topic is distasteful.  However, I applaud its posting and any thoughtful and well considered replies on the subject.  To those who contribute, thank you.  Regardless of whether it's a democratic or republican administration, we should all be questioning policies and actions, especially if they are unethical and/or illegal.  This applies to international as well as domestic acts.  Ideology shouldn't make someone question one party more than the other party; we should be watching all "elected" representatives and appointed officials closely.  Wasn't that one of the key tenets in the founding of the US?  I've seen quite a few quotes from the founding fathers that would seem to support that.  Criticizing what one sees as unethical or illegal actions, even of one's own country, should be encouraged.  I think in the end it would make us stronger and more united.

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks, waggin.  I like your attitude.

Anyone who will look closely will notice that we no longer have a two party system but it is in fact a one party system...the war party.  Obama brought us change alright... we have increased Bushes killing fields by several fold at least in country quantities if not in deaths.

We do what is good for business, not what is good for the world or our neighbors on the other side of the world.

Drones do not discriminate. 

Can't even keep from killing our own let alone innocent civilians.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/afghanistan/la-fg-pentagon-drone-20111014,0,5628010.story

....but to a kid on a computer in Nevada, it is just another video game.....

[glenn kangiser]

Oh crap!!!!!!
Glenn!
Need a little help here!
Only thing I got is, ladies don't argue like that, so I've not lowered the fairer of our species to the standard measured by testosterone......

(Lord, need a minor miracle here. Amen.)

What's wrong with measuring by testosterone, Gary.  Madeline Albright has more of it than a lot of guys I know.....

...but the fairer of our species... if you compared Madeline, Hillary and I then I would be the fairer of our species...

[Windpower]

DDT eradication was first and foremost on the EPA's agenda because it was important for the newly formed agency to demonstrate that it could take bold and decisive steps. Thus, it should come as no surprise that from the outset the EPA process was more political than scientific in nature. The EPA held seven months of hearings, with scientists giving evidence both for and against the use of DDT. At the end of the hearings, the hearing examiner, Edmund Sweeney, ruled that the scientific evidence provided no basis for banning DDT. The head of the EPA, William Ruckelshaus, overturned that ruling, even though he didn't attend a single hour of
the proceedings.


"[W]hile it is clear that the [Klamath Basin] farmers face severe economic hardship, the threat to the survival of the [salmon and sucker] fish is greater."
-- U.S. District Judge Ann L. Aiken, agreeing with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service biologist Steve Lewis who had decided that the fish in the Upper Klamath Lake and Klamath River need the water more than the farmers.
(Source: "Tightening the Screws," by Henry Lamb, Pennsylvania Landowner, Spring, 2001, page 8. Published by Pennsylvania Landowners' Association, Incorporated, PO Box 391, Waterford, Pennsylvania 16441. Phone & fax: 800-757-5178. E-mail. Website.)

"If you haven't given voluntary human extinction much thought before, the idea of a world with no people in it may seem strange. But, if you give it a chance, I think you might agree that the extinction of Homo sapiens would mean survival for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species . . . . Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental."
-- An excerpt from Wild Earth, (Summer 1991, page 72) a magazine edited by David Foreman, cofounder of Earth First!
(Source: Animal Scam, by Kathleen Marquardt with Herbert M. Levine and Mark LaRochelle, 1993, page 8. Published by Regnery Publishing, Incorporated, An Eagle Publishing, Incorporated, Company, 422 First Street, SE, Suite 300, Washington, DC 20003.)

--thread drift---

WOW NM

That almost sounds like you are calling the banning of DDT a conspiracy

Of course the information you posted is mostly correct about DDT

DDT has proven to be one of the most non toxic (to humans and other non-insect life forms) ever produced

DDT wiping out birds was totally fabricated using bad science,

There was even a man that gave talks in favor of keeping DDT because it was safe and effective --- IIRC he ended the talks by tasting a bit of DDT to prove his point

It indeed could have saved millions of lives from malaria had it not been banned

As a chemist I was interested in making some myself -- it is quite simple if you get the precursors (building block chemicals used to make DDT)

not so fast -- you will get into big trouble trying to even order the  precursors in small amounts

--end of thread drift  _

Now back ot the William Grigg article

[Gary O]

What's wrong with measuring by testosterone, Gary.  Madeline Albright has more of it than a lot of guys I know.....

...but the fairer of our species... if you compared Madeline, Hillary and I then I would be the fairer of our species...

Well, Glenn, your wisdom strikes again.
Yeah, I hear Madeline, Hillary, and Nancy have even sworn off wearing the Mankini.


What is it about aging folk? Seems we all tend to swap genes after 60-70 yrs.
Think I'll be keeping my beard for the rest of the jounrney.
Just as a vestige of my virile days.
If I did shave, might be starin' at Mildred Schwab in the mirror.
Remember that darling of '60s-'70s Portland Commission, Glenn?

OK, boys, (AND GIRLS!), the commercial break is over.
And now back to Madeline-dead children-Upper Klamath water issues...................
(Sorry about  your breakfast)

[Native_NM]

Now back ot the William Grigg article

Are dead children killed in the name of war any more dead than the kids killed in the name of the "environment"?  It's that consistency thing I always talk about...