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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: ryanlane55 on November 15, 2014, 10:23:27 PM

Title: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on November 15, 2014, 10:23:27 PM
Hello everyone.  Been lurking on here awhile reading, learning, figuring on how I want to do my build.

Bought a few acres on the river for hunting access, and fishing that had a cabin on it that I had planned to renovate.  The cabin was in pretty rough shape so I decided to just take it down and start new and build what I want to.  This is going to be the start of my build thread so I will post pictures as progress continues. 

What i am now:

I have the old cabin down, and I had around 50 yards of soil brought in to help with drainage and get water moving around the cabin.  I am going pier and beam with the cabin.  I have the piers laid out and will have the auger out there in the next week or two.  I am going to use 24" Bigfoot and 10" tubes.  The tubes will be above grade by 18" +/-.  I had planned on using the 3 2x12 for the beams......(3 rows of 5 piers).  But yesterday came across some I-beams that I think I can get ahold of for cheap, cheap. 

So here is my thoughts:  please chime in on whether you think this will work or not.  Assuming the beams are adequate of course which I need to figure out what they are.  But lets assume they are sufficient.  I was thinking of pouring an embed on the top of the tubes when I poured them.  This embed would be 6"x6" plate steel, with embeds.  I could then take the I-beams and set them on the piers and weld the beams to the embed.  I-beams would be a lot easier to keep things straight obviously then setting pier anchors in perfectly to allow for the 3 2x12's. 

So question 1:  thoughts on the I-beam and embed assembly for the beams?

Question #2 - I would need to drill and bolt a sill on top of the I-beam and then run the floor joists on top?  I would hurricane clip each joist to the sill that is bolted to the top of the beams.  Thoughts?  Sound okay to you all?

Thanks for everything and look forward to the build and input from you all through out it.  I will get some pics up soon of the old cabin, and the demoed spot.

Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: SrDesigner on November 18, 2014, 10:11:35 PM
Beam size would be good to know. There are references online that can help you figure out the point loading for various sizes of W members.

Yours is the first post that I've seen that resembles my plans. I am starting my construction in the spring. I have already placed a shipping container and stocked it with bigfoot forms and various construction tools. I have a seasonal stream and during the runoff I collected 300 gallons of water in poly barrels, to use for mixing concrete for piers. I found 3-25' W8x13 beams. I'm planning to weld 4x4x1/4 tube steel to 6x6x1/2 plate embeds (this will allow for less care in leveling piers).

I'm going to top the W beams with pressure treated 2x4's using structural self-tapping screws and the build above will be per normal framing methods.

There are a few details that I will start sharing on this forum, once I have some progress photos. I will be following your posts closely. Thanks for the inspiration.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on November 19, 2014, 07:26:03 AM
Yes it'll work, a well braced pier and beam. weld rebar to the bottom of the embedded plates that extends down well into the piers. When the flanges of the W sections are welded to that plate you are creating a moment resisting connection. I ordered W18x60 per engineering for a long span yesterday, the guys are forming 42" square piers currently.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on November 20, 2014, 04:56:45 PM
Thanks for the replies.  I am still working on trying to get that guy to sell those beams.  Not looking as likely as it was last week, but fingers crossed.  If I cannot use the beams, I will be going with 3 2x12's with 3/4" sandwiched in there twice to get me to the 6" and use the PB66 Simpson anchor.

I really want to do something atop of the pier to help minimize the moment arm on the connection.  I figured I could use a small 1/4" steel angle of sorts that would lag into the beam, and then epoxy into the top of the beam..  Two of these per pier per side of beam on the pier.  This should help with the moment connection and not not leave just the PB66 to resist the moment arm.  I will also brace the piers themselves similar to others I have seen on here.  Should be doing some auger work early next week and I will start posting some pictures.


Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: cholland on November 22, 2014, 03:58:25 PM
I made a built up 2x8 center beam on mine.
The PB66 connectors are 5.5".  So you only need 2 pieces of 1/2" ply.
Instead of sandwiched between the 2xs, I just made 1/2 ply gussets at the piers.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on November 30, 2014, 09:22:34 PM
Well got some progress now.  Not going the steel beam route.  Guy wanted a fortune for them.  So.........over the long Thanksgiving weekend I got the holes dug, footings poured, rebar cages set, tubes set, gravel backfill, and spread some dirt around them.  Also got the tubes marked where they need to be cut off at but the 30 mph north wind and 20 degrees had me saying mercy.  Shouldn't take an hour to cut them off now they are marked.  I cheated and rented a Transit and Laser Level......marked 4 corners of tubes and connected the dots.  For $30 I couldn't afford not to rent it and go that route.  Also, a buddy of mine runs a rental store close to my home town and he brought out the 24" auger.  That baby moves some dirt.  This silty dirt didn't take long to put holes in to.  Here are some pics.  Next weekend I will be cutting the tubes and bar, pouring the tubes, and setting the pb66 Simpson Anchors.

2' round piers, 12" thick, 4 pieces of #3 rebar aligned like "tic tac toe" at the bottom of the footing, then 3 pieces of #3 rebar vertical with a 8" bottom leg bent into the footing.  10" sonotubes.  Footings are 4'-5' below finish grade, approx.

I have a great time this past weekend.  Great weather and got a lot of work done.  All the tubes are within 1/2" of being in line at the long axis.  It is out of square a couple inches due to the rebar cages not allowing for the tubes to be exactly where they needed to be, but I will make that up in the floor joists. 

Note:  This place had a cabin on it originally but it was in bad bad shape.  You will see septic waste and water line maybe in a few of the pics.  I am going to tie back into those once these piers are done. 


(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/1105141314.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/1105141314.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/1105141314.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/1105141314.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_01391.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_01391.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_01941.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_01941.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_01891.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_01891.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_02111.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_02111.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_02381.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_02381.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_02411.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_02411.jpg.html)



Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on November 30, 2014, 09:34:15 PM
I went with three rows because once you calc up the dead and live loads and then add in the weight of the concrete footing and pier, the psf is about 1400-1500 psf.  That soil is the silty bad stuff, so everything I researched says that soil will only bear 2000 psf. and I wanted to be on the safe side.  I had to go 15 piers with 2' diameter footing.  The 20x30 plans I bought from here do not have the middle row.  Because I have the middle, I could probably get away with 2x8 or 2x10 floor joists over my beams.  Not sure if it matters but I will be overhanging my beam by 6" - 8".
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on November 30, 2014, 09:40:01 PM
Also, BTW.........Not sure what I was thinking but I bought 24" bigfoots, and the auger was 24".  At as deep as I went there was no way i was going to get them down there and be in line with each other.............I bought these from the supplier it called out for my state (Kansas) and had them shipped to me.  Because i can't send them back..............I will make somebody a smoking deal on here for them.  I paid $25 a piece. 
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: warbird on December 02, 2014, 10:50:01 AM
how smoking of a deal are we talking here?
i also am in ks (wichita) where are you at roughly
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 02, 2014, 11:20:47 AM
The forms are just east of Manhattan.  I could ship to you. 

I have 15, but plan to use one for pouring the tubes.  I should be able to clean it up enough that it would still work to be used as a footing.

I'll sell for $250 obo and I pay for shipping.

Thanks
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 15, 2014, 06:55:06 PM
Well got some more work this past weekend.  Weather held out for us, and then the rain came last night so got the foundation completed just in time. 

Everything came together pretty well.......the main problem I was having was the pb66 Simpson Anchors being just heavy enough that they sunk into the concrete to give me problems.  I wanted it to be relatively wet concrete so the "anchor" portion of the hardware had a good seal around it.  If I would of poured a dryer slump concrete I was worried about air pockets in the tubes and also trying to push the anchors down into the dry concrete making for not as good a bond on the anchor.  Maybe I should of done that, but I would rather deal with shimming etc, then have pockets of space in the tubes, or a bond anchor bond the concrete.  I am just saying this for those in the future......the anchors are pretty heavy/stout and will sink into a wet concrete.  FYI.  Also I am posting some pics of the original cabin that I removed.  Doesn't look like too bad of shape from the outside, but it was in very bad shape structurally. 

Hopefully this weekend I can get started on my floor.  Going 3 2x12's and then 2x10's on top of that.  The overall width with be 22' rough, and 32' rough.  The 2x10's will overhang the beams by 6" +/- each side. 

Tubes cut to length
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_0287.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_0287.jpg.html)

Anchors Set in Concrete
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_0290.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_0290.jpg.html)



Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 15, 2014, 06:58:54 PM
Have some fine grading to do now but overall I got a good fall away from where the cabin will sit.  I will put down 6 mill poly and then gravel as well.

Also you can see the septic and well lines are roughed in...........

Not sure what approach I am taking yet on keeping them from freezing.  I may encapsulate them both in PVC and pour foam in them, along with heat tape that I can plug in come winter and unplug once temperatures return higher.  Something I am also talking about doing is putting some sort of pressure release valve outside which will drain the entire system of well water as needed.  The septic line shouldn't freeze, but the traps I may just do some antifreeze as necessary.  Still working on those details.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 15, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
The old cabin that got demoed......

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/Cabin2.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/Cabin2.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/Cabin3.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/Cabin3.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/Cabin.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/Cabin.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 15, 2014, 08:49:26 PM
Got a couple questions on floor details and how to connect/attach/etc and what some of you did or feel are best practices.

You can see my construction is much like what others have done but I have a few questions on connections.  This pic is of the beam ends.  I planned to block the end of the beams, and then put a rim board at the ends of the beams.  Should say Rim @ Beams, not Rim @ Piers.  Fastener/Connector recommendations?  I put question marks where I assume I should probably have some sort of connector, or is just nailing fine?

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/Cabin/IMG_03001.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/Cabin/IMG_03001.jpg.html)

For the joists I plan to use the Simpson H1 Clip like shown here:  http://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?lsf=seller:8740,store:14146498969549977141&prds=pid:208767791698397282,oid:208767791698397282&hl=en&ei=446PVOOKI4mpogSkiIDoDw&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100375256&ci_sku=100375256&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969&gclid=CjwKEAiAqrqkBRCep-rKnt_r_lkSJAArVUBc63Cdawo-NlLk_wZ_hRf28jUVmkwLytn2yqI9HhCkMhoC7Ubw_wcB

My main concern is at the short side (pier end side) as you can see in my drawing I am going to have the rim joist bearing on just the beam rim, hopefully that makes sense???  Is that okay?  Or should I just block between them and not worry about the beam rim board? 

More questions to come as I progress......thanks
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on December 15, 2014, 09:29:43 PM
Code prohibits wet setting anchors. If the mix is too stiff then the anchor doesn't become embedded and if the mud is wet enough to stab into the aggregate is also pushed away from the anchor leaving it just embedded in cream.

Have you thought about using joist hangers and setting the joists inside the girders, this solves another lateral support issue.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 15, 2014, 11:55:34 PM
I read and read lots of posts here and saw others wet setting but didn't see any mention of what you stated. I will do plenty of lateral bracing to hopefully help with whatever problems I created in wet setting the anchors.
So many things I am not aware of I guess.
I am not sure I can do the joists inside because of it being out of square some. 
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: busted knuckles on December 16, 2014, 03:00:11 AM
No wet setting of anchors, what metheod is recommended? Are the anchors not designed to be installed that way?
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on December 16, 2014, 08:43:21 AM
This was the first time I had seen a post describing how the anchor should be set, so I piped up with some clarification. On inspected jobs all steel is hanging in the forms with correct coverage spacing, the prep is inspected and then the concrete is placed. What that is trying to do is have consistent concrete and aggregate surrounding the steel. When you wet stab something into fresh concrete it pushes the aggregate away and then you puddle cream over the anchor. Where I've had it happen is these are the anchor bolts that you can crank right back out of the concrete while trying to bolt down a sill, the uplift is shot.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on December 16, 2014, 05:49:08 PM
I understand what you are saying.................with that...............other than the lateral bracing from column to column as you can see on page 4 here  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8038.msg103145#msg103145 how would you recommend to help with the uplift.  I will us the H1 clips at the floor joists to the beam, and then possibly some other twisted straps that attach to the beam and then the joists hopefully adding more reinforcement..........but whatelse is there I should/could do?

Thanks
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on December 16, 2014, 09:55:09 PM
I'm sure you'll be fine, my comment was in response to your note to those in the future and was expanding it to best practice for those following along in the future. If you're concerned, tieing from one of your brace to pier connections up to the girder would restrain uplift across that point. I suspect with pier and beam lateral is the control.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on January 21, 2015, 04:21:27 PM
Well made some major progress over last couple weeks.  Have some friends that have a small construction business that were slow so they pitched in a lot of this work. 

Here the beams are set in place but not attached.  A little bit of shimming was necessary but overall was really happy with the piers. 
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0487.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0487.jpg.html)

Here the beams are set in place.  I put some 2x4' a 1/2" below the top of the beams and then laid 1/2" OSB on there so the OSB was flush with the top of the beams.  Once the 2x10 floor joists are set I then get underneath and nail/staple the 1/2" OSB to the bottom of the floor joists.  I will then caulk the perimeter edges where the OSB meets the beams.  The 2x4's cover the OSB joints.  This kind of solves two things for me.  Gives something for the R-30 batt insulation to rest on and also is a good bug/critter screen.
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0489.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0489.jpg.html)

Here are my floor joists sitting on the beams.
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0491.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0491.jpg.html)

Here are the trusses I ended up purchasing.  Went with the scissor truss.  I am going to build a loft floor in half.  That loft floor will be supported midspan that creates the bedroom under the loft. 
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0525.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0525.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0509.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0509.jpg.html)

Trusses on.  The gable ends will have a 1' overhang added on.
(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_05361.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_05361.jpg.html)

Coming along nicely.

Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on January 26, 2015, 02:48:21 PM
Next step inside and then siding on the outside.

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0585.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0585.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0563.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0563.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0562.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0562.jpg.html)


Going to start framing interior walls, exterior soffits, and loft floor next.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on February 02, 2015, 05:52:31 PM
Here is my interior layout.  Not entirely sure what I am doing with the stairs yet.  I have it framed like what you see in this layout. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0578.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0578.jpg.html)

I have 2x8's for the loft floor.  I ran the 2x8's all the way to the exterior sheathing.  Then I nailed the 2x8's to the 2x6 exterior wall studs.  I then put a jack stud under each one of them.  The 2x8's sit on top of the wall that is the bedroom wall for mid-span support.  These 2x8's are pushed up to the underside of the bottom-bottom plate.  That puts the bottom of the 2x8's at about 8'4".  Once i put the finish items on the ceiling the area under the loft floor will be at about 8'2".  The center of the loft to the bottom of the truss is over 8' currently.  The pony walls you see on top of the loft are 32" tall.  The overall width of the loft is about 15'.

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/0131151133.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/0131151133.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: MountainDon on February 02, 2015, 07:54:25 PM
Wondering how the insulation in the upper area is to be handled?  Insulation behind the pony walls and then up the roof trusses to the peak?
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on February 02, 2015, 10:47:37 PM
Yes sir. I was planning to insulate the walls up to the top plate. Then return horizontal in the loft floor. Then return up pony wall and continue on up in the trusses.

Been contemplating closed cell foam. My biggest concern with that is the structure being so air tight and in Kandas climate you have 50/50 cold hot through the year. With a structure that will go weeks or possibly a month or two that is unconditioned the walls not able to "breath" may create condensation or moisture issues. Thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated. I work for a construction company and we do spray foam but this is a different situation being that the structure is not going to always be conditioned. If it was conditioned 100% of the year I would spray foam for sure.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on February 03, 2015, 08:40:46 AM
I think the preferred method for a kneewall area is now to insulate up the wall and then follow the roofline, including the area behind the kneewall in the insulated envelope. For moisture, heat is going to drive it from hot to cold, don't let it leak from the outside, let it dry to the inside, and keep an eye on the interior relative humidity and temperature with a hi-low hygrometer/thermometer or monitor. Then do what it takes to keep it down in drying conditions inside, whether passive venting, dehumidifier or a little bit of heat and vent.

I'm not sure of the advantage of the framing below the loft. If that had been platform framed with an ~8' wall with the floor on top it would have a firebreak between wall and floor, the top plates, then the floor would have been framed on the top plates, no jacks needed, and the roof on the floor or on a plate on the floor... yes getting that plate well connected to the floor below can be a challange in conventional framing but with trusses the heeljoint load isn't there to the same extent.

Is there something reinforcing the hinge at the top plate in the gable wall opposite the loft? I think that's the end I'm looking at in the pic with your daughter by the 3' front door in the open room. That joint needs some form of lateral reinforcement.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on February 03, 2015, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: Don_P on February 03, 2015, 08:40:46 AM
I think the preferred method for a kneewall area is now to insulate up the wall and then follow the roofline, including the area behind the kneewall in the insulated envelope. For moisture, heat is going to drive it from hot to cold, don't let it leak from the outside, let it dry to the inside, and keep an eye on the interior relative humidity and temperature with a hi-low hygrometer/thermometer or monitor. Then do what it takes to keep it down in drying conditions inside, whether passive venting, dehumidifier or a little bit of heat and vent.

I'm not sure of the advantage of the framing below the loft. If that had been platform framed with an ~8' wall with the floor on top it would have a firebreak between wall and floor, the top plates, then the floor would have been framed on the top plates, no jacks needed, and the roof on the floor or on a plate on the floor... yes getting that plate well connected to the floor below can be a challange in conventional framing but with trusses the heeljoint load isn't there to the same extent.

Is there something reinforcing the hinge at the top plate in the gable wall opposite the loft? I think that's the end I'm looking at in the pic with your daughter by the 3' front door in the open room. That joint needs some form of lateral reinforcement.

So you think I need to insulate the 9' exterior wall and then just follow the truss........don't worry about insulating the knee wall?  Am I understanding you correctly?

In regards to the framing I think I know what you mean, but I was trying to maximize ceiling height on the main level and maximize ceiling height in the loft.  Do you feel like what I have done is okay?  I am not familiar with some of the terminology you are using in your second paragraph above.  The main level interior walls are framed to the bottom of the loft floor.  I am not familiar with what you mean about "platform" framed.

Lastly you ask about reinforcing the hinge at the top plate in the gable.  Is the hinge you mention where the gable truss meets the top plate?  I planned on using OSB on most of the interior because I am using old barn siding or some pine/cedar I picked up cheap cheap.  If I bridge the wall-to-truss connection with the sheathing will that not help with lateral?  If that is not adequate what would be a good remedy?  Does the loft side not need something due to the loft framing and knee walls helping with lateral pressure from that side? 

Sorry for the questions but I am not real familiar as I mentioned with some terminology when it comes to wood/residential framing. 
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on February 03, 2015, 09:34:23 AM
I just did a quick google search on the gable end and now understand entirely what you mean about this creating a "hinge".  There is a lot of information out there on this topic.  Now I see that what I have is what is said not to do.  Basically avoiding a flat bottom chord gable end when adjacent trusses have sloped bottom chords (i.e. scissor truss in my case) as this creates a "hinge" at the wall/gable interface that is difficult to impossible to brace.  It would of been better to just have scissor trusses at the ends as well and frame to the bottom of those..............

now that is not possible so.........what would be the best way to attempt and brace these gable ends.  My vertical members of the gable trusses are 2x4's turned perpendicular to the top plate, so I can add more vertical members "sistered" to the one in place now.  That will put the members of the gable truss in the same plane with the inside of the 2x6 top plate.  I could then use metal strapping and bridge the wall stud to gable end truss intersection.  I can also add more lateral bracing from the scissor trusses to the gable end truss.  Structural sheathing that bridges this intersection certainly wouldn't hurt either??? In lieu of using OSB as mentioned in my earlier post?

At the loft end I am going to have additional framing at the knee walls that will create individual bunk areas for the kids.  This added framing and knee walls that area already there should provide a considerable amount of lateral support for the gable end truss on that side.  One of the bunks is going to be right at that window on the gable end.  Maybe it is not conventional or engineered but I am thinking it will be adequate support to resist the wind pressure at the gable end at the loft.

What else could I do at the open area?
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on February 03, 2015, 09:51:58 PM
The loft end is laterally braced across that joint by the loft floor. The sheathed floor acts like a deep beam laying horizontally.

One way I've braced these is with a "plant shelf" that runs from side wall to side wall, well attached to them that is the bearing, across the hinge. A beam across the inside of the gable wall. If you want to make that beam stronger, another beam coming off the loft floor to the midpoint of the gable wall would stiffen it considerably. Mentally rotate the wall and look at it like a floor, the wind rather than people are creating the load. If you broke floor joists in midspan it would be over a beam, it's basically the same thing here. Somewhere in Astidham's thread there are pics and an explanation.

What you have done for the interior walls is platform framing. Frame a floor, frame the walls, set the next floor, set the second floor walls, ceiling joists and rafters. Balloon frame studs run from sill or floor to upper top plate, unbroken, with second floor on a "ribbon ledger" that is let into the studs. You've done a form of balloon framing. It is fine structurally, I think it added work and wood unneccessarily.

Yes , the current thinking is to foam the envelope, so wall right to roof. I don't know that i always agree with that but in this situation I think that would be right.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: speedfunk on March 01, 2015, 08:19:05 PM
very  [cool]  trusses . how that top  board hangs over wall framing. Would look good exposed as well.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on March 04, 2015, 03:44:30 PM
I have searched online and on here and not finding exactly what I am looking for in regards to heating/cooling and the affects on the structure.

For my heating of the cabin I am doing 4 of these in the living room space all on a thermostat.  http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/electric-baseboard/electric-baseboard-heater-09954-240208v-1000-watts-48l-white?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQiA99qnBRDnrYCkt4ClzZABEiQAvqPaLJKBUhinh17zcysMKLflcsMSaAuIN_MZ352BMeed3-UaAgbl8P8HAQ

In the bedroom will be a 500W 240V 32" baseboard, and then the same thing in the bathroom.  These will have a integral thermostat on themselves. 

My plan would be for winter time when we are not there to set the thermostat at 40-50 degrees or something like that and then turn it up when we get there.  I have family closer to the cabin then we are that could turn it up to a comfortable temperature the morning of us getting there.

As for cooling we are just going to run a window unit in the living space and possibly a much smaller one in the loft portion if we end up thinking it is necessary.  For the cooling, I would set the window unit to 80-85 degrees when we are not there. 

Thinking along these lines, is this going to create any moisture issues.  From the research I have done, there are so many varying opinions on this and the dos/don'ts.

The good thing about the base board heaters that is unlike a wood/pellet stove is the temperature rise is not going to be rapid.  It will be much slower............so the moisture that will try to make it's way to the cold (exterior walls) will not do it rapidly and the temperature of the space will increase as will the walls themselves.........my thinking is the condensation won't occur on the walls that way.

It is the summers I am more concerned about and if what I have kind of map out above is okay???  Thoughts???

Thanks




Got the stairs done.  Not exactly what I envisioned but as they progressed this is what I ended with, they are basically to code which I don't need but for little kids they will be very safe this
way. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0750.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0750.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Don_P on March 04, 2015, 07:26:01 PM
The half step onto the landing is probably going to cause trouble, watch how people fare on it before going any further. I've had to remake a few sets. The first time I had to rip a set out they ended up in the weeds behind the local tavern... hiding the evidence and soothing my battered young pride  ::). The heel of the upper set is hanging unsupported, it really needs something under it. If you follow the grain from the deepest part of the notch for the first set down to the landing and then how much meat is left supported with the bottom hanging you'll see why it is good to support the entire heel.

AC is a good way to dehumidify the air in summer, you're ok for winter if the power bill is tolerable, it should be fine. Electric heat is expensive so it pays back to insulate and seal well.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: pmichelsen on March 05, 2015, 11:02:58 AM
Quote from: Don_P on March 04, 2015, 07:26:01 PMThe half step onto the landing is probably going to cause trouble, watch how people fare on it before going any further.

Exactly. My wife's father just bought a cabin and the stairs going up to the deck have something similar and I swear I almost fall every time I walk up or down them. I told him my first order of business is to rip them off and do them right.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on April 14, 2015, 04:38:12 PM
Starting to get a lot of the finishes in now.  I can see the light. 
I did r-30 batt in the ceiling and then hung the unfinished wooden bead board.  At the butt-joints I took some log cabin pine siding, cut the lap and gap off each side and used it like beams.  I got the pine log cabin stuff for free from a guy so instead of spending $$ on something I used it.  Serves the purpose.  I am also going to use it for the window trim. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1022.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1022.jpg.html)

In the bedroom I got did car-siding and then trimmed it out with cedar.  The car siding is #3 pine, which means it has a lot of imperfections but I actually like it a lot.  The cedar is true 1" thick x 5.5".  I used it for the window returns and then used it also for the window trim.  Smooth side out.  The car siding and cedar I got at a building materials auction for about 20% of what it would cost new.  I don't have $150 in all the car siding and cedar for this room.  I think it turned out great. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1020.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1020.jpg.html)

In the big open area I did all lap and gap cedar.  The same guy who gave me the pine log cabin stuff also gave me enough of this to do the slider door and front door walls.  I am also doing the stair wall in it as well. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1019.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1019.jpg.html)













Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on April 20, 2015, 09:07:20 AM
Finishes going strong.  MOving for work so been going hard on the weekends to try and finish up before we move a couple hours away.

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1033.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1033.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1032.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1032.jpg.html)

Loft is pretty much 100%.  Used the panoramic from the phone, so looks a little weird.  The bead board is the same color, lighting makes the pony walls and ceiling board look different colors.

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1034.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1034.jpg.html)

Tile is done, just needs wiped off. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1035.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1035.jpg.html)



Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on April 20, 2015, 09:10:52 AM
A pic standing on the loft looking to the open area.

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/PART951429131479878952015041595155706.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/PART951429131479878952015041595155706.jpg.html)

Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on April 20, 2015, 11:00:44 AM
And another.  Picked up 64 of these spindles for $10 at a garage sale.  Gonna put them up like this was a top piece of cedar.  Then cover the bottom with Cedar also.  Using my last piece of pine log siding and sliding the spindle into the lap side, ripped the "gap" side off for the bottom to line up with the kitchen ceiling.

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1037.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1037.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on April 23, 2015, 01:18:43 PM
Got the loft whooped.......very happy with it!

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1062.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1062.jpg.html)

Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: new land owner on April 23, 2015, 04:58:34 PM
Looks good
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: nailit69 on April 23, 2015, 07:04:07 PM
Looking really good... nice work.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: Str8arrow on April 24, 2015, 03:57:41 PM
Awesome work.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on July 13, 2015, 03:59:31 PM
Pretty well wrapped it up............still a kitchen backsplash to do.........and need to paint the exterior but here she is. 

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0020.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0020.jpg.html)


(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0018.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0018.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0024.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0024.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0025.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0025.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0027.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0027.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1546.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1546.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1545.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1545.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1547.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1547.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1543.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1543.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1544.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1544.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1542.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1542.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_0015.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_0015.jpg.html)


I have a small window unit AC in the loft and the bedroom.  I also had a portable 12,000 BTU unit sitting in the living area that I didn't even need to use over the 4th of July with the other two running.  The R30 in the roof, R19 in walls, and R30 in the floor and it being sealed up really well makes for an efficient structure.  Love being there.........wife and I joke about just packing up and moving there and enjoying the simple life......
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: John Raabe on July 13, 2015, 04:50:46 PM
Nice project!

Insulation - the gift that keeps on giving. :D
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: pmichelsen on July 13, 2015, 06:01:39 PM
Quote from: ryanlane55 on July 13, 2015, 03:59:31 PMLove being there.........wife and I joke about just packing up and moving there and enjoying the simple life......

My better half and I have been tossing that idea out as well. Place looks great.
Title: Re: 20' ish x 32' ish Cabin - Kansas
Post by: ryanlane55 on July 14, 2015, 08:20:37 AM
Almost forgot the best part :)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1234.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1234.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1233.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1233.jpg.html)

(https://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/RyanLane/IMG_1235.jpg) (https://s380.photobucket.com/user/RyanLane/media/IMG_1235.jpg.html)