(http://potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/01_earth_and_snow_shelter.jpg)
Hey! It's our 22nd winter here!
(http://potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/06_The_kitchen.jpg)
(http://potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/07_The_kitchen_2.jpg)
(http://potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/08_more_of_the_house.jpg)
(http://potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/09_The_sauna_door.jpg)
(http://potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/05_living_roof.jpg)
The roof will live again!
Thanks for posting these pictures, lodestar. I love your place. Now I don't feel so all alone. :)
Welcome Lodestar:
Thanks for showing us your great project. Keep warm, spring is reported to be on the way!
We're seriously considering adding on to the back of our underground house...we have windows high on the north side, now...buried 6 plus feet. Thinking of an addition of a great room and bath/laundry room...with another door going out to the east and a deck canitilevered over the steep hill...overlooking the deer paths. The roof would be buried, but go the opposite direction of our existing space...the roofline would be 4 feet or so higher than existing roof line...and a clerestory to the south would bring light into the addition+provide ventilation. We'd remove the existing north windows and make tall archways opening the lower house to the upper. I want to make the addition handicapped accessible and a short (40 foot) walk to the shop/garage.
I have cedar poles peeled and seasoned...and the existing north windows would become the clerestory windows. I'd need some other materials, but we are blessed with local mills...
I have a Dankoff 12volt solar pump in our greenhouse which has served us well...(punny)...so I think I would use the same in the addition to provide real running water...although we'd keep our handpump, as well.
Lots to think of....and some expense...but it's either do this, or move to a beach in Mexico. ;D
Sounds like a good project. Please keep us updated with photos if possible as you get into it. Our place comes out to ground at 2 levels that are easily made handicap accessible - we had the nephew in there after an accident in a wheel chair.
I really like the sound of your proposed addition- it paints a nice picture.
Hey, thanks glenn...that's very encouraging.
I'm getting psyched!
You two guys need to ease up on the digging. If you keep going like you are, you are going to end up neighbours. Probably with the same living room in Colorado. ;D
And hopefully, just down the hallway is NSW, Australia-
Looks like I better get started then, I've got the book. ;D
Cheryl in 'the dig'..
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/temp/20070904_175408_20_July_2007_01.jpg)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20070912_194429_12_Sept_2007_00.jpg)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20070916_121518_16_Sept_2007_00.jpg)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20070916_121615_16_Sept_2007_00.jpg)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071005_173427_05_Oct_2007_007.jpg)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071005_173447_05_Oct_2007_008.jpg)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134117_bath.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134135_bath_window.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134220_hassock.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/temp/20071112_134341_washer_and_bath.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/temp/20071112_134354_washer_and_drye.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134204_couch_bathwindo.JPG)
Broke ground after labour day...and just have a few loose ends to tie up...everything works...Takagi Jr on-demand gas water heater...Fisher-Paykel washer and dryer (inverter can push both of them, no problem...the dryer is gas)...pex tubing for water...
We also remodeled the kitchen this past spring...
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134238_kitchen.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134314_kitchen_sink.JPG)
(http://forums.homestead.org/uploads/20071112_134259_kitchen_greenho.JPG)
Maybe we'll get to the addition off the back...utilising a clerestory...for a large bedroom...open things up...and tie the back door onto a deck which attaches to my shop's office...
Hey that looks cool lodestar.
What's the white deposit in the wall of the first photos? Looks gypsum-like?
It would be a startling sort of a sight walking through the woods, approaching your place as in the sixth picture... all the "roof"penetrations. :)
Looks great Bruce. Was this an expansion?
... and how much earth cover?
Y'know glenn, we don't have any 'soil' on our roof at all...we put compost and straw, leaves, compost, plant squash, straw, leaves, compost...plant squash...and let the organics build over time. I'm careful to keep the material moist until after snowfall...I'd guess we have nearly 18 inches of composted organics on the roof of the house...plus another 8 to 10 inches of lofted straw. The addition, just getting started, more loft...layed over with compost and then more loft.
I figure wet mineral soil could weigh as much as concrete...up to 150 pounds per cubic foot...where wet organics don't weigh too much more than water...which is 62.4 pounds per cubic foot...
Oh yeah...I'd love to camo the extrusions as mushrooms, eventually... ;)
When I first built the place, I'd stuccoed anything above grade...but then I buried the entire east and west side after building some retaining walls...and the stucco on e/w sides got buried.
23 years and there wasn't a bit of rot in even the rim joist of the wall...that's pretty amazing for untreated wood buried...although, I was very careful to isolate everything from direct contact.
You are using a heavier or EPDM membrane, arent you and with the 10 foot or so umbrella outside the cabin?
The compost is a great idea - much lighter than earth which is about as you calculated. Not quite as fireproof unless wet as you say. I think I will go for more squash on the roof next year and root crops out in the compost and soil garden we expanded into this year. I hope to get a couple inches of compost or loam and succulents onto the shop roof one of these days. Get a little bit of that thermal flywheel effect or at least a bit of a break from the summer sun. Hard to beat the squash leaves and winter squash for storage and food through the winter.
I've used .45 mil EPDM, and I lapped it by half coming off the existing roof...and extended it to about 8 feet off the new roof as an umbrella...backfilled with very clean sand...which should remain dry and act as a thermal flywheel. You're right...those squash leaves stay about 8 inches or so above the roof, keeping everything in shade...cooling the house.
Thanks, Bruce. Mike Oehler now recommends EPDM - at least to me on the phone -- don't know if he has published anything more.
I saw your umbrella technique in one of the John Hait book references I think. I don't have that book but have his Rust Power Book
http://rmrc.org/pahs.html
Mike's come a long way from snail mail...he has a phone, now?
I read PAHS by Hait...and think he has fabulous ideas. I think folks need to be careful with earth tubes.
I caught him at his above ground office a couple of times - yes - a phone. I heard he was no longer in the U house. He told me he was going to write an updated book for a U house that cost more money because people didn't take his $50 and Up one seriously.
It's been a long while...we build another addition, and some more sheds. More construction going on this year, again...and again.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__0vYCWAmoR8/SqV3sb76vDI/AAAAAAAAAeU/kft4Y9doSgk/s320/P1010997.JPG)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__0vYCWAmoR8/SpxFSyxY9qI/AAAAAAAAAeE/vTOuOfPiH4s/s320/P1010986.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__0vYCWAmoR8/SoH96cyYWTI/AAAAAAAAAbA/3MRgaQBthLc/s320/P1010920.JPG)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__0vYCWAmoR8/SqQyaWh4beI/AAAAAAAAAeM/Wxmqf4mgwog/s320/P1010993.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__0vYCWAmoR8/SvIWhSs18UI/AAAAAAAAA1E/ms-cVCDa9oE/s320/P1020354.JPG)
Thanks for the update, Bruce. I refer others to your build every so often. Nice to hear it is growing.
Awesome, I love it! Thanks for posting these great pics!
I love seeing more and more info on building underground or earth sheltered!
Thanks for stopping in again and posting an update.
Progress is Good! :D :D :D
More projects going on this season...so I should be back in awhile to post some new, updated pics.
Thanks everyone.
Time and love...time and love.
I have referred several to your postings, Bruce. Glad to hear you are bringing more. We will be waiting.
I had a warning that this topic hasn't been posted in for at least 120 days...but it seems it's still the best place to post the success of our 'west wing' addition. Last year's was the 'east wing'.
I have to figure out how to link to the pics I have, again.
Hope all is well with everyone.
Yup - generic warning, Bruce.
We want more.
I have recently sent nonmembers that emailed me to look at this very topic, so I know there is interest in it. I am also working with others who are doing an underground build and have referred them to your methods of using organics - compost - on the roof there. BTW, How thick is your roof compost there? - don't remember if it was posted earlier. I had someone building one in a deep frost area.
Looking forward to your update.
I forgot if I could upload pics directly from my drive or do I need to link to them?
Hi lodestar,
How much wood do you usually burn?
I'm undecided on building an earth-sheltered home or a super-insulated home. I'm in northern Minnesota too, and so far, a super-insulated home seems to win.
A lot of advantages to building underground though- mainly expense and maintenance costs are far lower.
Thanks.
Hmmm. Well, we heat my shop, my office and Cheryl's studio off and on. But if I was to hazard a guess it would be 2 cords m/l for the house. We often sleep with the window over the bed (an awning type) cracked a bit, for the breeze. Even when it's zero.
Also, the house stays remarkably cool in the summer. The leaves of the squash keep direct sun off the roof and respirate.
2 cords a winter. That's cheap and a manageable amount of wood to split.
QuoteAlso, the house stays remarkably cool in the summer.
Yes, that's another appeal of underground living. I like the composting roof too. I'd definitely use that idea.
Quote from: lodestar on November 30, 2010, 05:26:32 PM
I forgot if I could upload pics directly from my drive or do I need to link to them?
Load them to a free Photobucket account, Bruce then copy the bottom tag - the one that starts with IMG in brackets - and paste it into your posting where you want the picture to appear. I use Gadwin Printscreen - free edition to copy my pix from the screen- name it an easy name - then load from the copy to make them smaller - they load fast.
Sorry I've been remiss in uploading these pics. These are on flickr and are a bit out of sync...my bad. Please use your imagination and you can kinda figure out which are the eggs and which are the chickens...y'know, which come first.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27818911@N03/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27818911@N03/)
Let me know what you all think.
Have a wonderful season. The days are getting longer. We gain two minutes between now and Christmas Day.
Peace on Earth.
Hey, thanks for posting the link to your pictures! Enjoyed looking at them - reminds me of some of our stages. Looks great!
Quote from: lodestar on December 22, 2010, 03:18:18 PM
Sorry I've been remiss in uploading these pics. These are on flickr and are a bit out of sync...my bad. Please use your imagination and you can kinda figure out which are the eggs and which are the chickens...y'know, which come first.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27818911@N03/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27818911@N03/)
Let me know what you all think.
Have a wonderful season. The days are getting longer. We gain two minutes between now and Christmas Day.
Peace on Earth.
Sweet home.You are really close on how I want to set my underground domain.I wanna find to small hills.Build down between them and use the excavated material to cover the roof.Oh yes.I plan to use Mike's books and vids for the construction.
Ooops...my bad. My wife notified me that I'd uploaded pics other than the construction. I deleted a few, but let a few others ride. Hope you all don't mind.
I like the simple elegance of our homestead.
Peaceful holidays to all of you...and in the coming years.
Thanks for the pictures, lodestar.
One of my favorite threads here.
Happy holidays to you too.
Looks like you get a ton of natural light in there. Very cool.
Nice addition, Bruce. Thanks for the pix.
your place is beautiful, just beautiful! i love everything you have done, and it just is so peacefull and blisfull. congratulations on a great success.
Just wanted to say hello to everyone...haven't been on the forum for awhile. Lots of changes still happening around here, which is our nature...Hope this finds everyone well, happy and prosperous.
Once again, I've been remiss in posting for another year or so. Stopped by to see what is going on around here and to let everyone know that we are still up and running here at the homestead...don't know if I ever posted a link to Cheryl's shop, which we built in 1994 out of strawbales...we had visited several in the SW USA including Athena and Bill Steen in the Canelo hills of AZ, and Steve McDonald's place in Gila, NM...(also Sue Mullen's place)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/framework.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/cherwframe.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/toddwbale.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/bale1.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/cher.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/splashnvent.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/cherinfront.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/interiorgreenspace.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/finishfront.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/int.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/pump.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/sink.jpg)
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/natbild/images/lilacfarm/strawstove.jpg)
Also wanted to mention...
The absolute best question to ask of anyone when learning about their alternative building techniques is, "What would you do differently"...
We learn best from our mistakes, and those of others. Much more than from success.
Cheryl's shop is beautiful! Thanks for posting :) How is the underground house coming along?
It's great, as usual...although we had such a dry summer, it made us a little nervous here in the deep woods...not the house, but the lack of moisture. That said, we had bumper crops of nearly everything we planted...and harvested a year's worth of wild rice for the pantry. We're ready for winter.
We actually have a 'boulevard' now...well, that's what we call it. It's basically a series of small sheds for firewood, machine shop/blacksmithing, storage, cook stove wood...we turned the old wood shed into a 'cantina' and garden shed.
Been cooking baba ghanoush, pesto pizza on the grill...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sEyu2VHIxvI/UDrOnk7XpBI/AAAAAAAAHFc/H4I-gP6N3cs/s400/P1050540.JPG)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kLir9pC3mQ0/UDrOo0yaVaI/AAAAAAAAHF0/-8y_-Hcgna0/s400/P1050542.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TDc3tTp1vcI/UDrOsAk8rZI/AAAAAAAAHGw/upYeIViYZN0/s400/P1050547.JPG)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w86nlcrTWU0/UDrOt_hWZGI/AAAAAAAAHHg/jcnsyqJVjPE/s400/P1050551.JPG)
Made some sauerkraut today, too
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SFEVsvAKYnE/UBRPg2IAf6I/AAAAAAAAG6A/IU_cXJorGGQ/s400/P1050356.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZB3Jp-Q-Tn0/UBRPhLOiSMI/AAAAAAAAG6M/H9c7BfXqeRM/s400/P1050357.JPG)
Here's some of the boulevard
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oDQLVaCAyB8/T9djaLWjrDI/AAAAAAAAGww/rSIc8YdYWYw/s400/P1050120.JPG)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NE_zyV5XXwo/T9djab6BsqI/AAAAAAAAGw8/OAeljoal56M/s400/P1050121.JPG)
And there's the cantina
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ge8cYzJzx44/T9djauPmxrI/AAAAAAAAGxI/7qc-ayJOk6I/s400/P1050122.JPG)
machine shed
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m-Ebm6DjIrY/T8z2ZR0doCI/AAAAAAAAGqo/WhGuzBcoX5M/s400/P1050046.JPG)
Built a new solar shower overlooking the upper garden this spring
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4i0buhpK9gw/T5b5Qj_mR_I/AAAAAAAAFQY/FRooZmNN43M/s400/P1040848.JPG)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PrY1Ds3fVV4/T5xXjPZ8qRI/AAAAAAAAGV0/uLx2vU0oEuw/s400/P1040871.JPG)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MMq3QuH2pfI/T5xXj1nQ05I/AAAAAAAAGWA/WeOD7zzKks4/s400/P1040873.JPG)
Oh...and so many other projects, too...
Always busy.
Looks like an oasis - very nice! The pizza looks good, too [hungry] Our cabbages never get that big. What is your recipe for sauerkraut? I have a nice big crock that would work well for making kraut.
Thanks Sassy...I read that you are expecting surgery in November. May I wish the best outcome for you. I know that I have some things coming up in my life (65 this coming Feb) which will need to be dealt with surgically...really not looking forward to them, but amazing strides have been made (and hopefully, we'll be able to be helped by them). Have a friend who had his hip replaced a couple of years ago in the winter, late spring found him back on his skiff in Alaskan waters fishing for salmon again...for me it's an aortic valve which will need replacement within 3 to 4 years (pig valve...I'll never be kosher again)...and then my right knee...and then my left knee. If all goes well I should have some good times ahead. Our thoughts will be of you in November.
Sauerkraut...really simple.
Cabbage and salt...lactic fermentation.
http://www.wildfermentation.com/making-sauerkraut-2/
We have a wonderful Harsch Gartopf Fermenting Crock Pot ...kim chee, kraut, pickles, etc.
Really great to see all of the new stuff, Bruce. Thanks for the pix.
As Sassy said... That pizza looks good.... I'm hungry...
G/L with your upcoming surgeries etc. I try to stay far away from doctors whenever I can. [waiting]
Thanks for the link for the recipe on sauerkraut!