Victoria Cottage plan dimension question

[NavyDave]

I just purchased the Victoria Cottage plan set. I'm designing the pier foundation right now and am trying to get the spacing correct between the piers. I'm having a problem understanding the dimensions in the "Post and Pier Foundation" blueprints where the kitchen and laundry/utility room bumpouts are.

The kitchen bumpout shows that the beam size is 16 feet but the dimmension lines show that the actual bumpout is 16 feet 6 inches.

Same thing with the Utility bumpout. The plans show the beams as 10 feet long but the dimension lines show 10 feet 6 inches.

I originally thought that the difference accounted for the double joists at the wall but then the joists would hang off of the beam, which I don't think was intended?? I have built things but nothing as important as a house so I obviously have limited structural experience. If it's not a big deal structurally that the end joists hang off and that is what was intended then I get it. I'm just trying to figure out the exact dimension of the room so I can space my piers to be correspond. I know it's a bit nit picky but it will also help layout the dimensions of cabinets inside etc.

Thanks for your help.

[John Raabe]

The pier foundation plan does not call out the exact length of the beams. The dimension lines are to the outside of framing. The beams will normally be cut to that length. So the utility room beam would be 10'-6" and the kitchen beam 16'-6".

The beam line is drawn at the center of the beam and this is the line for the center of the piers. Note that the wall line above is offset by 2-3/4" (half the width of the beam). Work from the wall line inward when laying out the center line of the piers.

[highlandva]

I am actually working on this same thing with plans in hand and ready to start excavating soon.  I have a question on the kitchen side main beam that runs the 28'.  The plan shows the first 12' (from front to back) using a 6x12 beam and then from the bumpout back to the rear a 6x8 beam.  How do you change the beam size at the pier and why wouldn't the 6x12 run the entire 28' like the bedroom side?  This is also my first time building a house and studying the plans in detail for planning.....and I love it, just need a little direction.  Thanks all!

[NavyDave]

Thanks John, that does clear things up about the dimension lines....funny that Highland asked that question because it's similar to my next and hopefully last one.

John, are the beams that Highland is reffering to 6inch by 8inch and 6inch by 12inch or are the dimensions meant to mean; 6 x 6 inch, 8 feet long and 6 x 6 inch, 12 feet long? If it's the second one then i'll be using pressure treated 6x6's. Although to me a 6 x 6 beam seem small for a building this size? Just a bit confused.

If the beams need to be 6inch x 12inch would there be a problem doubling 2 6 x 6's and connecting them somehow like using lag bolts or similar? I believe the built up beam is the cheapest option, which is the best option for me....but if i run into a time crunch (i will only have 7 days at the property to set piers and beams) I want the double 6 x 6 as an option to save time.

Highland I think we are in about the same boat.....trying to work the bugs out before the concrete starts to dry and sawdust starts to fly.

[John Raabe]

A beam called out as 6x8 or 6x12 is nominal 6" wide by the 8" or 12" depth. You cannot stack two 6x6s vertically to make a 6x12.

You can build up beams with 2x materials - 4-2x12s can make a sturdy stand-in for a 6x12 for instance. Make sure your beam saddle can take a full 6" width as a nominal 6" beam is usually 5-1/2" wide. If you do this try and get some of the joints to fall over the piers and stagger any other joints by 4' so they don't weaken the whole. You want the beam to act as a continuous solid timber over all the piers.

Take your time with the layout. You are wise to get this planned as well as possible before you get on site. Also some local experienced help, if available, can be a great addition to the team.

[highlandva]

John, I still don't understand the Victoria plan at the kitchen bumpout where the pier and beam foundation plan shows it changing from a 6x12 to a 6x8.  Any help understanding this would be great.  Thanks!!!!!

[John Raabe]

When beams change depths you align the tops and shim the saddle under the shorter beam.

This becomes clearer when you look at the crawlspace foundation in the right hand side of the plan sheet. The 6x12 beams are carrying the loads that would have fallen on the concrete walls. At the interior of the kitchen the 6x8 beam is carrying only the floor loads and can be smaller. The concrete wall sill plate and the top of the 6x8 beam must be at the same height since the floor joists sit on top of these.

When you do a pier and beam to replace the concrete wall and sill plate, the top of the beam must match this same height.

[NavyDave]

Any reccomendations for shimming the saddle where the 8 inch beam meets the 12 inch beam. I planned on building a miniature 4 inch built up beam or just using 2X material, sound good to you or do you recommend another way?

Also where the bedroom beams meet the main 28 foot beam do you happen to know the simpson bracket part number that i should use off the top of your head?

Same question for the simpson bracket that would anchor the beams to the concrete piers.

And as always I'm interested in any cheaper fastening alternatives without compromising strenth. Cheaper distributors that you may know of  are welcomed also.

The planning process is progressing thanks to you and the forum members. Getting excited!!

[John Raabe]

There is another thread going here with more info on the foundation. The second post in this thread has a link to beam hardware. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11260.0

You can shim the shorter beam with any solid wood such a the same material you build the beams of.

You hardware at the pier to beam connection will involve a post base. Simpson has several different designs - http://www.strongtie.com/products/categories/post_bases.html. Here is a particularly strong post - http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/CBSQ.asp.

Once again I would suggest you consult with someone locally that has built a pier and beam foundation in your area. Part of your choices here have to do with the height of the posts and how they can be braced. That can vary site to site as can the soils.