As I mentioned in the Underground Cabin Update, http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.msg117052#msg117052 I am building an underground structure for a friend.
Since they wish to keep it quiet I will limit this to all aspects and considerations of the project except the who and where. It is an owner approved and supervised project and we are considering it a root cellar for anyone who may inquire. I cannot see wasting a good teaching opportunity though, as this uses improved techniques and skills I have gained over the years.
This project would not be possible without the work Mike Oehler has done in designing a safe structure in engineered repeatable modules. Out of respect for his work and copyrights, I will not be divulging critical design information that needs to be obtained from his book and CD's.
Check out his site at www.undergroundhousing.com for more info. If you seriously consider building one of these projects then I highly recommend both the book and the CD's. Information only - I am not associated with Mike's business other than using his methods and teaching others his logical method of affordable, low cost, unobtrusive housing.
There are designs out there by the concrete terrorists and if you have about a million and a half to start for a small structure call them. If you want a way to do it yourself with safe untreated materials (Borate is not a problem - other treatments may cause you to sprout an alien.... [scared] .... ), then Mike's methods are the practical ones. "The $50 and Up Underground House" is not an exaggeration if you scrounge and do it yourself. Even this project hired out will cost less than a regular similar sized structure.
As John points out, this is not for everybody for sure, but for some of us, there is nothing else. [waiting]
Note also that this is for areas where you can get around the permit requirements or none are required. This is positively engineered safely and with enough hassles you may be even able to get it permitted - after you go through the good ol' boy system, pay the engineer associates of the system again to review a proven method and contract away your God given right to provide shelter for yourself and family by pulling a permit - your signature on that permit contracts away your rights- and you come up with likely close to 1/2 million for a small structure if you do it yourself - their way.
We are not going to go there. :o
The first thing I had to do was find out what the owner wanted. I got a verbal description and did a preliminary sketch then presented it to the owner for more discussion. Upon thinking about it the owner decided they wanted a bit smaller place - around 600 sf with the design pretty well up to my discretion and aimed toward ease of building with most practical use of materials.
I did a rough sketch of the ridge building area - like a line on a TOPO map and fitted a practical design into that area. I say "a practical design" because with Mike's methods there are hundreds of practical options. For getting started we agreed an a shell design with openings to be discussed and added as we go along. That allowed us to get started since I had a week off and the owner was anxious to get going.
For myself this would be in my head but for a customer, quantities for cost and design for their satisfaction had to be considered. Where does it start? Where does it stop? How much for how much? All important considerations and required up front so there are no misunderstandings.
Doing it on paper first saves having to make costly, time consuming changes later.
Here is the post plan and rough sketch of the work area.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse1.jpg)
Anxiously awaiting your progress with your knew project! With plenty of pictures, I hope . . . :)
/
This will be great Glenn!
I expect this will, by necessity, be a more "organic" process of design/build/redesign/ than would be the case for a topside house.
There is some of that, John as the owner is familiar with my place and wants me to incorporate some of my organic material from upstairs into the mix. [ouch]
There is a bit of a difference though since it is for someone else in that I have to limit what I will do for how much. While I intend on giving a good amount of creativity where it fits into the growth of the organism, it will also be tempered with limits based on whether things are going well or not so well according to budgeted amounts. With this type of design though, many of the changes cost little to incorporate. A couple foot taller pole here for a window view - an opening and no dirt there etc.
Note that when I estimate I use a spreadsheet and include every item. Cost estimate for one of each item and estimated time to make and install it is figured then it is multiplied times x number of items. That is the limiting budget I am talking about.
It is easy to put an item into a job before you bid it but if you miss it, it is much harder to get in or impossible in the case of a contract for a complete item. I left an opening here because I only priced out the shell, with openings and creative items to be added later - if they don't fit into the creativity allowance I have in the first part of the project. I left a little room in some areas and an owner is always happy to get more than they paid for.
In line with the above, and unlike things I do for myself, I also drew up a basic plan to describe better what I am and am not including, which I am already modifying slightly to make a cooler place. Same footprint at this time though. Just edited for the coolness factor. [waiting]
Here is the dimensioned floor plan and cut 2 from page one.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse2.jpg)
The above cut "a" is including my method of using Mike's engineered design spans but safely getting a nearly clear open room without a post in the center.
This is not in his book. It takes half the span and transfers it over to each side leaving only one full span per design in the center and gives the cabin additional diagonal bracing. Earthquake bracing is provided by the backfilled earth at the sidewalls. The above span is 16 feet broken into 4', 8', 4 feet.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/Logclearspanbraceframe-1.jpg)
Quote from: bayview on June 16, 2010, 06:20:15 AM
Anxiously awaiting your progress with your knew project! With plenty of pictures, I hope . . . :)
/
Pictures have started but not in the computer yet.... coming soon. :)
cut 2 ref 1 is a right to left section at the upper part of the plan, right?
This will be an earth covered roof I expect. How much of the wall area will be bermed or underground? Are you going to do cut and fill calculations?
That is correct, John as I had originally put the cut on the first sheet as shown then put the detail onto the second sheet and expanded from there.
There will be around 16" of earth cover plus or minus going from Mike's later recommendations of reduced loading from his engineered design of 2' of soil and a foot of water. He recommended reducing to 18" of soil. In this case I would say we will end up with 75% of the wall area bermed or underground. I am having a bit of a hard time talking the owner into putting what I feel is a necessary amount of windows. The owner wants it to look much like the original mountain ridge with nothing to indicate that it is there. While it will easily support the weight of a vehicle, I plan on adding boulders or landscape items to prevent driving on it. Cuts nearby indicate that this is a self supporting shale mountain so pressure against the sides will be minimal and there is no water from uphill to cause problems since this is on a ridge.
I want to get light from four sides so am thinking of making the gable roof poke up a bit through the ground as a bit of a higher hill rise. Wall height at the highest point of the cut will be 8 to 10 feet. None of the structure will be on fill - all cut into the natural soil, but the berms will be fill.
I estimated moving around 250 to 300 yards of earth plus or minus but that will expand about a third when broken loose. I may do it in two phases since loose dirt storage is uphill.
We are going to use some to fill a larger downhill yard area minimizing fire danger while still leaving the trees for cover and shade. Since I own the Bobcat equipment cost is not enough of an issue to get tighter on calcs. I also have a Jackhammer for it but it does not look from the surface and road cuts that its use will be required.
Here is my current roof framing plan, which at this point shows the entire roof at one level roof line. Gable roof with water shedding downhill on soil to both sides of the roof. I think I may raise the 10'6 x 32' section or the center sections to a steeper pitch as we are sawing 14" square girders at this point and they will look too cool to have a minimalist design in there. [ouch]
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse3.jpg)
Note that I don't get crazy with a CAD program for my design. I am just using Paint from the Accessories in Win7. It is pretty good for this as it is extremely simple and has a grid which can be turned on for measurements. I don't really need much more than that. It is good enough to use quickly and get decent drawings I can show to the owner or send on the net. Mike offered to review my design and add suggestions on it so I can easily send it to him too.
I look forward to watching this unfold [cool]
Thanks, Michelle. I'm glad there is so much interest in it. Makes me feel better about taking the time to document it for teaching others. :)
This is great. I feel involved already! :D :D :D
I like your idea of light on all four sides. That's hard enough to do when you build above ground.
Is the central 16x16 area likely to be the great room? It could look a bit like a NW Indian lodge with a higher roof there and a band of windows all around.
That is what I would call it, John. I wanted them to have one area without a post in the center. It is now officially the Great Room.
Involved already?... You are - you are already giving me ideas and I see this growing in different ways as we speak. As I mentioned above, very cool changes can cost very little with this type of construction. :)
Mike has information on his CD's and design booklet that comes with it that teaches ways to get light from all four sides into an underground structure. He likes to see it but does not totally insist on it. What he does insist on is that you know how to do it. Mike was impressed that I had light on 4 sides in most of my cabin.
It would be quite easy to make an undulating roof there by raising a couple of the center roof beams on top of the girder with short posts and putting glass in. The EPDM would simply divert the water to both sides of the raised section off onto solid ground downhill per Mike's design rules.
Mike's book has sizes for round or rectangular/square cut logs. For my place I used round, but for ease of construction and tree availability here I am using rectangular, but allowing wain in lower loaded areas such as sides, (half load) for a rustic cabin look. Mike mentioned that there is a big safety factor in the designs so the wood does not have to be perfect. That combined with the reduced loading makes it safer yet.
Just a thought - logs continue to dry for a couple years or more so the occasional pop of a check or crack forming is not a cause for alarm. Even expensive commercially sawn lumber and beams do that.
Here we are using bug damaged trees that would soon die and become a safety or fire hazard. One friend has the trees. My renter has firewood, so I trade firewood for some of the tree value and take it off the rent, then the tree owner gets something for his trees and gets them away from his house, my renter gets a lower rent payment, and I get logs which I am constantly lusting after every time I drive through a pristine old growth forest... [waiting]
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhousebugkilltrees.jpg)
I already have some of the trees from here and will soon have 8 more. :)
So cool ;D
Whitlock helped me log the first bunch of trees from the above location, and I suspect he will be around for the second stint of logging, as well as to lift the occasional 8x16 x 16 foot cant off of my leg when we failed to get it properly rolled over. [ouch]
There it is folks... a story complete with suspense, action and danger. We were flipping a cant by hand to make 2 8x8's x 16 feet when the bottom half of the log shifted in the mill dogs. That allowed the cant to tip and flop over getting my leg stuck between it and the sawmill carriage. No pain to speak of as the peavy (cant hook) was stuck under it stopping it from smashing me. I just couldn't get out, so Whitlock lifted it off long enough for me to get clear. Reflecting on the safety aspect, we decided, it was dangerous in a way, that the two of us together lost it, but working alone I would have had to use the crane so wouldn't have been under it. Estimated weight about 600 lbs. [noidea'
The owner asked why I would take this project on when I am already working pretty steady... "Do you just like to do it?" That is it...I have wanted to make someone else an underground cabin for a long time.... that and the idea that I can help others in the community with extra work, barter and deals that benefit many of us, while giving the clients a cabin they have dreamed about for years.
Here the logs are being lifted from the cold deck to the mill, but we load them on the trailer the same way. Click the next two pix for short videos.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/th_P1020270.jpg) (https://s778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/?action=view¤t=P1020270.mp4)
The crane can be operated manually or by remote. Note that all of the procedures I do with the machines can be done by hand -probably using round logs, if you were building the $50 version of a smaller shelter house. Note that even one or two of the above modules can be a complete shelter. It just depends on your situation. The cheap version could use just a roll of polyethylene, salvaged boards and logs cut with a crosscut saw by hand.
After the logs are placed on the carriage and the dogs are set, cuts are made to square them, make posts and beams, cants or lumber. Whitlock told me about spraying diesel on the blade occasionally to remove the sap, lubricate and make the blade last longer. A stream of water is also running on the blade from the water jug above for lubrication. The amount of diesel sprayed is so small that you never even smell it on the wood.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/th_P1020269.jpg) (https://s778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/?action=view¤t=P1020269.mp4)
After the cut the caps are piled behind the mill and lumber is put into stacks with stickers to dry and prevent mold from growing.
Get-R-Done! Glenn you get the coolest projects. I'm jealous. ;)
Thanks, Scott. I'm hoping this will be fun.
The client was a bit upset when I told them that I was rather swamped with work and they mentioned that I was swamped a couple years ago the last time they asked too.
With the economy being so shaky right now I decided, What the Heck, lots of work currently or not, let's do it. :)
Who knows if there will be other work tomorrow? [noidea'
I like your attitude--so glad to see you have another hole to play with! What with all of our alternative-construction projects, I understand how building unconventionally can be so addicting. This project will be so much fun to watch as it progresses!
Thanks, Andrew. I'm looking forward to it. Still waiting for Bobcat parts so we are working on the lumber and timbers first but that's a good idea anyway. Once the hole is done and the French drain in we will be able to start standing timber.
I plan to lay out the post locations, drive stakes in the centers, put a concrete pad with vapor barrier under the post end, laser set to grade, then we can use premade posts, beams etc., that is if the ground cooperates with my thought process.
This looks like a great project! I'll follow as I can -- my summer is going to be extremely busy, starting about two weeks ago, LOL! (Family and work)
Kathleen
Glad to see you in here, Kathleen. You always make good contributions to forum topics. :)
OK, talked with the owners today.
This is to be thought of more as an underground medieval castle. Some type of turret is desired. I am working on getting them to allow me to add more windows and their concern is the heat we have here. I think I need to differentiate between sunlight and light for them then it may be easier to add windows without the great heat concerns.
I also notified them that I am posting this as a discussion and teaching topic, in a non-identifying way and they are happy with that.
I am thinking of an artificial natural looking hill toward the property entrance for privacy and to allow us more creativity. The structure is to be invisible from the drive entrance area and fairly invisible in most viewpoints. I will have massive amounts of excavated dirt with which to make the hill. This area is rough country with hills, mountains, brush, trees and canyons all around.
The idea of a mound between the parking/drive and the house is intriguing.
I was seeing low slope earth covered gable or shed roofs with big exposed timbers. Maybe the roof over the great room would pop up 3' or so for a band of light and ventilation windows (they would not let in much high summer sun and could be used for stack cooling in summer).
A spiral staircase turret could rise above the main structure and end up on a watchtower open or covered deck looking over the whole place. (Watch the budget on that one!) Is there a long view from an attainable height?
The side of the mound toward the house could have a landscaped retaining wall for a neat garden effect. It would be on undisturbed soil toward the parking/drive area.
Big exposed timbers would be 6x8 beams and 12x12 girders in that area. The 10'6 wide section gets 14x14 girders and 6x8 beams. Elevation changes are OK'd.
I think there are great views available if I can work out the hill for cover behind. Then the turret above the structure could be a possibility.
The wood spiral stair case from the USDA plans in Ken Kern's plans are very economical as well as strong. I am using them in the Underground Complex. The handrail could get tricky.
Cutting boards and timbers for this project, this log yielded about fourteen 2x25sx16' and three 6x8's x16' (about 5 of the 2x's were cap cuts and narrower}.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhousebiglog.jpg)
Here I am cutting the 2x25s from the log.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse2x25.jpg)
I have been having a few blade problems and studied up a bit today. I learned something I wish I had learned about 8 years ago. My saw came with a water lube system. Timber Wolf blades recommended reading their six rules, so I did. It says water is not a lubricant and never use it on blades. [ouch]
Whitlock already had me using a bit of diesel with the water. Timber Wolf says use chainsaw bar oil lube mixed 50% with diesel. It is such a small amount that it is not noticed on the wood - spray it on from a spray bottle every few minutes - they said 4 or when blade noise gets louder. I can now say they are right. http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six_rules.asp
We hit 2 nails inside the log - put there around 35 years ago. As if that wasn't good enough, I tried to cut through a backstop on the back side later. Three blades dulled but re-sharpenable. [waiting]
Neat machine. Neat lumber!
Always more the learn, ehh?
It's amazing how much we don't know, isn't it. [ouch]
That tree makes our trees look like weeds. :(
It's a little one, but it is about the biggest I can get on the mill, with a few modifications on bumps with the chainsaw. We had to take a v cut on the top left corner a couple inches to get the blade support to pass by it before we turned it. Whitlock said it was 85 years old appx and it was a victim of the fire 2 years ago. Probably around 120 to 140 feet tall.
Actually most trees are a bit smaller than that one on the average but there are a lot that are bigger. It measured 39 inches at the butt. :)
What type of trees are your logs? I read thru but didn't notice a species mentioned.
Nice lookin timber 8)
Thanks, PEG.
The log on the mill is Ponderosa Pine, and the other species I have a lot of and made a deal for more of is Sugar Pine. The owner who needs the Sugar Pine bug damaged trees removed from near his house wanted half for firewood. The trees were too good for firewood in my and Whitlock's opinion, so I offered him 2 cord of firewood for his half. I will be getting 8 trees about 18 to 30 inches in diameter and about 100 to 120 feet tall.
Here is a pix of the 3 Ponderosas laying on top of the Sugar Pine on the log deck by my mill.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouseponderosaandsugarpine.jpg)
Our 85 year old Ponderosa's are lucky to be over 10 inches in diamter. One 9 incher I cut and counted rings on was 86 years. What a difference more water and warmer temperatures make.
Wow - that is a difference.
I remember driving through the forest there in a volcanic area. I recall that the trees were fairly small. In Mexico the loggers in the Sierra Madre would cut the pines and roll the logs onto the truck by hand.
I estimate that that log weighed near 7000 to 8000 lbs.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on June 19, 2010, 02:11:08 PM
Wow - that is a difference.
I remember driving through the forest there in a volcanic area.
That's us. A dormant volcano rests about 6 miles north. Front row seat. ;D
And the rangers here refer to our stand as being mainly a young forest. There are a couple trees on our property (and more scattered around us) of approximately the same size as that one you pictured that are estimated to be 250+ years old. We also have one tree section that was left on the ground years ago and I note that the rings 100+ years ago are wider. Maybe a wetter climate back then.
Thought I might add a little history. Here is a picture of the tree and it surroundings in 1957. It's the big one in the center left. To bad the fire got it and the buildings.
(https://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/Minermatt/scan0001.jpg)
Neat picture! Glad I got a chance to explore the buildings & area before it burned down - it was a pretty neat piece of history...
Cool pix, Whitlock. Thanks for adding it. :)
I'm jealous . . . You have all the big boy toys! Nice sawmill!
You mentioned bobcat . . . Will you be able to move most of the dirt with the skid-steer?
\
Thanks, Bayview
Yes - my Bobcat is excessively large... about 12000 lbs with 105hp turbocharged. It is a 963 which they thought was too large so they quit making it. It has about a 1 cubic yard bucket capacity and my grapple bucket is just under 8 feet wide. 3000 lbs working capacity and 6000 lbs tipping capacity. I run steel tracks over the tires and they are around 500 lbs per side. I have moved that much dirt in a day including excavating around 100 yards of it.
As with all good equipment, I am fully capable of tearing it up or wearing it out, and am currently waiting on drive motor seals, but it should be repaired by next week. We do our own repairs. Our renter is a good mechanic so we trade some rent for repairs.
I also have a pretty large hydraulic jackhammer for it if the going gets tougher than expected. I may be cramped for dirt storage room at the site since it is a ridge though. We will just have to see how that works out. [waiting]
Here is my sister trying out out when she visited last year.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/Bobcat.jpg)
Quote from: glenn kangiser on June 20, 2010, 02:32:48 PM
Thanks, Bayview
Yes - my Bobcat is excessively large... about 12000 lbs with 105hp turbocharged. It is a 963 which they thought was too large so they quit making it. It has about a 1 cubic yard bucket capacity and my grapple bucket is just under 8 feet wide. 3000 lbs working capacity and 6000 lbs tipping capacity. I run steel tracks over the tires and they are around 500 lbs per side. I have moved that much dirt in a day including excavating around 100 yards of it.
Here is my sister trying out out when she visited last year.
I certainly could have used your bobcat . . . We have a 753, with 43 hp and bucket capacity of 1300 lbs.
Did you have to do anything special to your bobcat when you installed the tracks?
Looks like your sister can git the job done!
/
She was game to try it and likely would have gotten better with some practice.
That is some of the rock and dirt dug out with just the digging bucket on the Bobcat. I widen my roads, flat spots and fire trails a bit each year. Just found out the parts came in also, so fixing it in the morning.
Yes on the track installation. The tracks are McClaren and they take a bit of extra room on the sides requiring spacers of some sort to be added or they will scrape. The good thing is that it becomes more stable as it is widened also. I found that Junkyard Boss tires work much better with the tracks as they are flat with about 2 inch thick rubber blocks around the tire. The tractor tread type tires cause the tracks to rock on the edges a lot more.
This Bobcat uses 8 or 10 hole Budd type wheels and was set up with large holes and heavy nuts. I took those nuts off and put dual wheel type aluminum wheel thimbles with a couple washers over each stud and an extra nut on the thimble before the wheel went on then a normal dual wheel nut on the outside after the wheel. It gave me about 1 1/2 inches each side - enough to clear the tracks and works well.
This is going to be an interesting project, got so interested in it that I did something I've been going to do for years. I ordered a copy of Mike Oehler's book $50 and up underground houses.
I got to build something in next couple years, and always wanted to build underground, and I'm sure his book is good reading and I'll learn alot reading it!
I hundred percent agree with you, mtman.
When I first got the book, I could not believe it would work, even though Mike said it would. I figured I was not going to be out much if it didn't work, but - here it is - over 8 years later, and mine is not near to falling in on me.
It is a skill I think everyone should learn even if they don't put it to use immediately.
At the rate our politicians, elite and bankers are destroying the country, I think a lot more will need the knowledge soon.... [waiting]
I talked more with the owner and we are now looking at passive solar into much of the house as well as working a few glass blocks into there somewhere. Still everything must remain rather out of sight. I presented the interference hill and natural landscaping idea to the owner and that went over well. That will ease up a bit on how hard it is to keep things out of sight.
I stay away from the computer and help my friend for a while,an I come back to this.I am never around when the good stuff starts.I am always the last one to the party. :-\
Glenn,
If you can tell me, without stepping on Mike's toes,are the post and beams set up and locked together the same way under ground miners did back in the day?PM me if you want.My thoughts were to use that method or large dove tails.I've seen this on square logged log cabins,but they aren't being pushed in by the weight of the ground around it.
I see you are using pines.We have loblolly pines here in the SE.Have you had any experience with them?Opinions on using them as posts?A lot of land we have look at have them.Some land is loblolly plantations.I have had a hard time finding land with larger trees to cut 8x8 or larger posts and beams from.Most of the land around here was logged clean after WWI.Everything else is protected by our gooberment.
Hey Ben,
Ideally there would be some good joinery going on but in general the joints are cut to resist the push of the earth at the edges then any upgrade from that in neatness and craftsmanship is great. Everything is then pinned together with your choice of re-bar spikes 1/2 dia or larger by around 16 inches long. Holes must be pre-drilled near full depth with the same size drill as the nominal size of the re-bar. It will be tight.
Rather than worrying about species of wood, I decided to just reduce loading and use about anything I wanted. I kept it to 18 inches or less. 6 inches would be a good minimum depending on your conditions. I also like the idea of some soil for fire protection then compost - mulch etc on top of that for better insulating qualities.
Square set would not quite work for everything as I recall but most of the principles would work for good quality joinery on the cabin. I looked it over briefly and will likely head a bit more in that direction or timber framing joints on this project.
My original joints were a bit sloppy but functional.
Progress on this project is a bit slow right now as I am working out of town a lot and soon it will be time to go logging again.
Hi Glenn,
It's been a while since I checked on you here, so it's great to see you building again! I'll be following this thread with interest, as I still plan to do my own Oehler Castle...someday. As it has been said before, it could be tricky in Washington State.
Good news is, I am employed again! It's been a while, but I found a local job that pays well, and is work I enjoy, metal work and welding. I could get paid more in the Seattle area, but it would really take a LOT more to make up for for the commuting, time and money. I have done that, and would rather not.
Thank you VERY much for documenting the process of your new build. Looking forward to following your updates, and getting even more inspiration for my own home, someday...and seeing how it all develops...
Good luck, and keep the lumber off of yourself!
Lauren
Getting ready to get started on this again, Lauren as I also have been out doing metal work and welding myself, building shopping centers for the masses... Now - if they only had money to spend there.... anyway - as you may know - that is my real job....
Hopefully this heat will break soon and my Bobcat won't, so soon I can get after this project.
We have about 8 logs to mill then it is time to go logging to get enough to finish it or at least get us a lot farther along. Guess I better keep the logs off myself too. :)
I remember seeing pictures of some of your work, Glenn. My work (now) is building office furniture. I was welding assemblies together for hours today, and enjoying it. I like to work, and love to weld. And I love to fabricate stuff. It would be fun to work on some stuff with you one of these days.
One of the things I have been thinking about (someday) is to make my own masonry stove, the type that has a lot of thermal mass, and making that the focal part of the great room/center of the house. Kind of like a Frank Lloyd Wright design I have seen before, but incorporating it into the house, making it an integral part of the structure, being in effect a superpost to help support the roof. In the winter, it would provide some nice steady, even heat into the living room/kitchen areas.
Lots of time to think and dream. And the site I build on will have a lot to do with determining the final design.
Incorporating a turret into an invisible home should be interesting. Good luck, Glenn.
Yeah, I think it will be a challenge but it will be interesting if they decide that that is not too much exposure and we do it.. As you mention, a lot has to do with the conditions, resources and the limitations we place on it ourselves.
Worked up a simple sketch of what the basic framing is here - subject to modification of course.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse4.jpg)
The sawmill work continues with the piles of timbers and boards getting bigger.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhousetimbers.jpg)
Some are pretty wide - room is tight - the planks are heavy so this pile is what we get.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouseboards.jpg)
Hmm, great sketch...but where's the turret? :-\
Still to be negotiated - they were a bit indefinite about the need for it - just a thought or desire, but we will need to see if it fits in with the project and the location as well as the privacy concerns. Still a possibility though and I picture it near the front 8 foot x 8 foot area.
Just for discussion sake lets say I see it as something like this
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse4w-turret.jpg)
OK that was the first thought - now I see it would have to go directly over the 8x8 square area to have footings to solid ground below - to the left will be backfill and not cost effective to take the extra posts to the ground without adding a room under it.... so think of it as being over the other room - possibly modifying it to the turret shape- an easy fix.
Hi Glenn,
Might be easier to just extend the 8X8 area up higher than the rest of the roof and add windows, and a floor. It would be more in keeping with the design (as it is right now) and definitely more stealthy. Just an idea. Not exactly a turret but an underground dwelling ain't exactly a castle either. A lookout room, perhaps.
Lauren
Man, that's some pile of lumber...drool
Hey Lauren, wish it was straighter stacked but it is what it is.
I did work up a different layout on the Turret but it looks like they want to cut down the size and cut costs ... oh well .. I did present the idea to them anyway. Seems the well went way over budget. Just a rough computer sketch in Paint - didn't have time to do a good job and learn it in Sketchup or something else.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse4withturret2.jpg)
Now it looks like 1/2 of the back section to the left will be eliminated. No problem though - this thing is organic.
Back on track with this project.
It bugged me that the pump company was charging the owner so much that they had to reduce the size of the cabin so I made a counter offer. I still carry my drillers license so I offered to do the solar pump in trade for reducing the cabin size to what they wanted and installing the pump for the difference, keeping my contract the same as for the full cabin. Since that was at about half of the cost they were quoted on the pump they went for it. I still got what I would normally charge for the system at a fair rate.
The owners concerns were simply that the well and pump were taking way too much of the project money. I simply offered more value for a fair price. The economy is way too tight to try to get rich now. I'm just happy with work.
I should mention that Whitlock and I discussed this problem and I made the offer based on our discussion. Better to keep the work amongst ourselves than let it go to someone else.
Besides - I had recommended the guy for drilling the well - I didn't need him cutting down my part of the project so he could keep himself in new toys... [waiting]
Better I earn enough to keep my crappy used toys running. :)
Here is the reduced size offset cabin we settled upon. Still a cool design as the single shed roof is easy to get light in from the high straight left wall. Drainage is simplified. The offset allows windows in an area that would otherwise be covered by the front section of the cabin.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouse4reduced-welladded.jpg)
Pardon the kind of crappy computer sketch - just modifying it as plans change.
Does the timber thickness need to increase with wall height? For example an 8x8 timber for an 8 foot wall and a 12x12 for a 12 foot wall.My idear was to use shed roofs about 20 inches above ground level with slide windows to let in light and allow air circulation.
It would have to from an engineering standpoint.
Mike kept it simple in design and had his engineer design the posts for a 10 foot average wall. It would be a bit overkill for shorter post lengths and reduce the safety factor for taller lengths so increasing size or reducing load as Mike recommended would be a good idea.
Remember that Mikes modular design is all based on full load of the 8x8 or 8x10'6" modules so the sides of the building are actually at half load, however he does not take that into consideration. Therefor adding on is simplified. The framing is already big enough to handle it.
Mike already recommends increasing the post size simply for looks. The more massive logs look better standing there.
The shed roofs as well as sidehill patios, uphill patios, gables and many more methods in Mikes book can be used for light and circulation. Always design a back exit through an uphill patio, Royer Foyer or other means. There is no need to not have plenty of light or a safe exit from the revenuers with Mike's methods. :)
Back on this one part time now. Whitlock and I put the pump in a while back then I worked for a while. Went up day before yesterday and laid out the digging lines to see how it will fit, and am doing the pipe and conduit from the pump while there.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/uhouselayout2.jpg)
Spider leg in front of the camera lens? Oh well...
So today I load up the Bobcat - service it - semi-dry day here... take off - get halfway up the hill there - about 10 miles away, and everything is wet. It rained. Spun out the truck going up the hill - stopped - unloaded the Bobcat on the slope.... steel tracks on a steel trailer with no grippers on the steel.... slid off the trailer sideways - no big deal except the hole in my underwear where I gripped them too hard.... [waiting]
Got the Bobcat out of the way - put the trailer bed back - tried to drive - got the truck and trailer stuck in the ditch - pushed the trailer sideways with the Bobcat -- backed down successfully.... for a few feet then jackknifed it again (front wheels were light and locking up braking so no steering) and had the truck 4 feet up against the bank - knocked off a clearance light 4 feet up and filled everything on the right with mud-- the ditch was full of soft mud.
Tied a rope to the front winch control lever and hooked the winch to a big tree - pulled the truck and trailer out with the winch as I was driving - unhooked the winch - successfully got the truck and trailer to the customers driveway then walked the Bobcat the 3/4 mile or so up to the job then walked back out. Didn't do any real work but, hey, I'm there.
Soooo, how was your day? [noidea'
So Glenn, I squirreled on page 69 I think of the thread on your cabin, and have been avidly reading on this thread, and it stopped with you unloading a bobcat in some fun sounding mud and never picked back up. I feel gypped! LOL, I want the price of admission back! ;) What happened? Did you ever finish it? Are there other cabins you've helped with or know of? Am a bit busy studying for my CDL, but after getting some debts paid off, I want to start looking for some land and been reading as much as I can on building underground... I haven't bought Mike's DVDs yet, but after paying off some bills, they are on my must buy list for sure.