Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)

Started by Oljarhead, September 21, 2009, 02:53:09 PM

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rick91351

Erik great job, good to hear you found work!  Close by?  Your porch - I think you will find, will have the most functionality of any of the designs cussed and discussed.  It looks very good, goes well with the cabin.  It will certainly help keep the snow away from the door in the winter time, should decide to stage a little winter get away.  Looks like your days were very full as you had planed.  You power project seemed to really have come together well in the larger scope of things.   Your weather I see is cooperating nicely.  Ours down here in southern Idaho pretty normal for this time of year.  Indian Summer and in eighties and even nineties a few days.  Hardly a cloud in the sky... [cool]       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

JavaMan

Quote from: OlJarhead on September 30, 2010, 06:08:14 PM
Looks like I'm making a quick trip to the cabin this weekend!  I just got hired in a new job and will start Tuesday (my choice so I could go clean up the cabin and get the door on the porch)....less time to work on the cabin but that's ok :) :D

BACK TO WORK!  WHOOHOO!

Congrats!  I'm sure you'll bemoan the fact (like me) that now you don't have a lot of time for cabin jobs ... but the money coming in is always nice!  ;D

So details, man! Details!

Is it close to home or are you going to have to commute on the weekends?


OlJarhead

Just got in from a whirlwind trip to the cabin to try to button up a few things before starting the new job :)

The new job is at WindWave Communications and I'll be a 'Network Technician' (of sorts).  Going back to fiber back-haul stuff primarily (Ethernet over Fiber) and will start out splicing and working outside plant.  The job is close enough that I'll be home nightly (unless I have to travel to Eastern Oregon then I'll probably stay a night or two depending on the work).  Seems like a good gig :)

I've got pics and details of the cabin trip coming soon -- thanks all!

OlJarhead

We arrived Friday around 7:30pm (dark this time of year) and Josh (step son) asked if we could turn on a light!  So, we temp wired up the inverter and plugged in the drop lite/trouble lite with a CFL in it and...

Inverter


WE HAVE LIGHT!

The little CFL did well by itself actually, but we also lit up the gas lamps so we could move in for the weekend with plenty of light.

Once we were moved in Josh headed into the loft and kicked on the old TV and Playstation to enjoy a little 'Dark Alliance' before bed without having to worry about turning the generator off when he was done :)  He likes that  [cool]


Not the best shot but hey, we have power :)

I can't tell you how satisfying it is to have your own power source!  No matter how much work you need to do to complete the install it's just darn nice :)

Saturday we got busy cleaning the place up and noticed a tree blocking the solar panels at 10:30am.  Since we planned on removing that tree anyway I got out the Huskvarna 455 and dropped it RIGHT where I wanted it :) Growing up in logging towns has it's advantages ;) Since we were at it we also bucked off the branches on a previous tree and bucked it into cant sized logs for milling at a later date.

We then got busy and installed our new door.  We'd goofed on the framing and framed the door opening 2" too short so pulled out the sawzall and pugged it into the solar power to cut out the framing and then fixed the issue -- so nice.



Sunday we had big plans but somehow I derailed those and got pounding in the ground rod.  At five feet down Josh and I ran out of steam and pliable earth!!!


We could not budge the rod anymore so gave up for another day.


I did some cleanup work on the solar setup but still need to install some wire nuts, conduit, ground rod, clean up the wiring, shorten some of the 1/0 and on and on but for now it works.

Oh and who on earth puts robertson screws in electronics?  The iota charger has robertson screws so I couldn't hook it up because my drivers were 240 miles away....grrrrrr

Finally, we got the ridge vent in and I began installing the ridge cap...and realized I could not properly install it :(  d*  I will have to put scaffolding up I guess because there is no way to sit on it (I'd crush it) or hang a ladder off it (crush it again) so I screwed the ends on and got as many scews in as I could then placed the center on by standing on a ladder leaning against the roof from the porch while my son held it -- don't ask.

I think it will work for the winter.


We left the place after some cleanup and packing up all the main saws etc (hated leaving them up there for the last year and since we don't need them there they are safe and sound at home now!) and pulled the mouse infested tent trailer back home for repairs and winterizing (and introduction to the cat).

Was a good weekend though and I look forward to the next trip since it will involve very little work on the cabin -- just some minor clean up -- and lots of tramping in the woods looking for deer! :)

MountainDon

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 04, 2010, 10:57:15 PM

Oh and who on earth puts robertson screws in electronics?  The iota charger has robertson screws so I couldn't hook it up because my drivers were 240 miles away....grrrrrr

Hmmm... mine uses hex socket. Probably different parts suppliers.

Back home in Canada, 25 years ago, Robertson were common in household wiring devices. I actually like them better than Phillips.


The porch looks nice.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Shawn B

Must fell really good landing a new job, and finishing off all the projects at the cabin  :)


I have a question, what is the big white box next to the charge controller ? I'm thinking disconnect ? Don't forget to vent the battery box to the outdoors also.


The porch looks like it will turn out real nice.
"The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on Earth, and not to be under the will or legislative authority of man, but only to have the law of nature for his rule." Samuel Adams

Don_P

I tend to either straddle the ridge or walk the screwheads along one side with a slack rope over the far side. Those are both pretty taxing. I've also set blocks of nailed together 2x on either side of the ridge and run a rope overtop to ladders that are tied together over the ridge (Tie the ladders down at the bottoms). That works but is a hassle. I've seen drawings or pics  ??? of a lightweight seat made of scrap ply that straddles the ridge and bears on either side, leaving room for the ridgecap to move around underneath. With 2 of these you can leapfrog your way down the roof.

MountainDon

Quote from: Shawn B on October 05, 2010, 10:31:39 AM


I have a question, what is the big white box next to the charge controller ? I'm thinking disconnect ?


That appears to be a Midnight Solar disconnect cabinet.  Available with different sized DC rated breakers.  


Re: the ground rod; it might be advisable to add a second rod in another location and hope for better luck. It sounds like that one hit a rock dead center and no amount of pounding will help, unless the rock gives in and cracks. Connect one rod to the other and leave a single ground wire run to the system.


The batteries are on the porch? Is that right? Are those 4 vent holes in the back panel, behind the batteries? 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Shawn B

RE Oljarhead: Had to look up "Robertson Screws". Around here everyone just calls them 'square drive'.

Also on the ground rod. When I was living in Montana I saw electricians bury the ground rod horizontally, say 1 foot or more deep. Sometimes they used a braided copper cable and buried several feet of it along with the rod. This was in very rocky ground.

RE MTDon: After a short search you  are right that is a Midnight Solar disconnect cabinet. It looks like Eric has a 12 volt branch circuit set up too.
"The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on Earth, and not to be under the will or legislative authority of man, but only to have the law of nature for his rule." Samuel Adams


OlJarhead

Thanks guys!  I'll try to answer some questions as I got in late from the new job (had a GREAT! Day :) ) and had to make up some chow for the kids and I (wife is at work still) and just sat down.

OK first :)  YES!  It feels AWESOME to be blessed with both a new job and to have prepped the cabin for the winter (mostly).  My wife wants me to order the roofing for the porch to get it done before the snow! :D  Gotta love her!!!  I LOVE ordering new cabin stuff! :D  [cool]

Midnight Solar disco box with 250amp breaker.  I've since learned that the breaker matches the 2500 watt inverter and it's 1/0 cable because it can draw 208amps at 2500 watts.  So it makes sense.

To the left is of course the Xantrex C40 charge controller and on the cabin wall is the AIMS 2500 watt modified inverter (CFL's work nicely with it :D ).  Then below that is the Iota 750watt charger that will run off the generator.

I'll be pulling 12vdc for the composter and a ceiling fan and perhaps a small stereo someday -- and who knows what else -- still working on that.

The holes in the battery box were originally drilled for wiring but there was no way I was going to get the 1/0 through them so left them.  For venting I plan to run a large vent through the side of the box to the outside via the porch wall.

The idea was to provide security (somewhat anyway) and warmth to the battery box and solar power stuff -- the warmth via the sun and greenhouse effect (crossing fingers).  The porch gets quite warm because of all the windows and I'm hoping with insulation it might keep the batteries from freezing.

On the ground rod -- THANKS!  Don you are the man :D  I'll be pounding a second in somewhere nearby and if that doesn't work then I'll try the Montana special  ;D :o of laying something down a foot or more horizontally.

I've also got a Midnight solar box outside the porch which I'll post later.  So basically the panels are in series providing 60vdc (open) to the outside box.  There is a breaker there for them and the box is designed to add more sets of panels without having to add another box -- just plug in another breaker -- so if I wanted to add 3 more of the same panels/same votlage etc I could add a breaker and tie them together in the box.  I've left pull tape in the conduit going to the panels -- did anyone notice the goof there *snicker*?

Then the cables run to a breaker in the main disco box and the C40 and to the batteries etc...I'll have to post a diagram soon.

One thing I've learned:  don't attempt to run the 370 watt AC heater/dehydrator for the compost toilet system without planning to run the generator soon or installing a boatload more panels and batteries!!!  I wanted to test it out and soon discovered it drained the bank fast!  I then read it was drawing 370 watts not 3.5!  I guess the AC fan is 3.5 but the heater takes it up to 370 -- I won't be using that unless I'm running the generator.

Anyway, cheers!
Erik

Tickhill

Erik, when you get the diagram done, I will be honored to do a Visio layout for you. It makes it alot easier to explain/troubleshoot if a large layout is printed and mounted nearby the system.

I had my first visitor to Dad's shop over the weekend to check out the solar panels. The gentleman was 73 years old and he has started putting some panels in place and "experimenting".

I certainly will be glad when engineers get capacitors to the point that you can meter their output and we can start using them instead/with batteries... Could you imagine charging your capacitor bank fully in a few seconds of full sun!

Enjoy that cabin!
"You will find the key to success under the alarm Glock"  Ben Franklin
Forget it Ben, just remember, the check comes at the first of the month and it's not your fault, your a victim.

Pray while there is still time

MountainDon

Quote from: Tickhill on October 06, 2010, 04:21:09 AM
imagine charging your capacitor bank fully in a few seconds of full sun!


I understand how capacitors build their charge very rapidly; no issue with that. Their ability to be put through unlimited (?) charge/discharge cycles would be a huge benefit by itself, when costs are reasonable. But here's where I get lost with that recharging in a few seconds thing. The capacitors can only charge as fast as the amount of power available. PV modules have a fixed maximum output; so much sun and so many square feet of surface area = so much electrical energy. So unless there is a change in PV module technology as well, it is still going to take more time than a few seconds to charge the capacitors, isn't it?  Or one could increase the number of PV modules, but then they would sit there un-used once the capacitors are fully charged; that's a waste. That's assuming the super/ultra capacitor storage system is storing the same total amount of energy as the present battery bank.  Or what am I missing?  ??? 

I believe we would reach full charge quicker with capacitors than with batteries, as the capacitors would do away with the very slow last phase of battery charging. However, the replacement of the bulk of the used energy would be governed by the power available, which is limited by the PV module. So I think we'd still be looking at hours to recharge, not seconds.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Tickhill

MtnDon, I guess what I was alluding to was that capacitors reach their charged capacity in a shorter relative time frame than batteries reach theirs.
Although it is an apples/oranges comparision, they both store and release energy, I read an article that stated this was going to be the next big energy storage device once the metered discharge was conquered.
Price may be prohibitive though.
If we could figure out how to product electricity from a dark sky...



"You will find the key to success under the alarm Glock"  Ben Franklin
Forget it Ben, just remember, the check comes at the first of the month and it's not your fault, your a victim.

Pray while there is still time

JavaMan

Quote from: Tickhill on October 06, 2010, 12:41:01 PM
MtnDon, I guess what I was alluding to was that capacitors reach their charged capacity in a shorter relative time frame than batteries reach theirs.
Although it is an apples/oranges comparision, they both store and release energy, I read an article that stated this was going to be the next big energy storage device once the metered discharge was conquered.
Price may be prohibitive though.
If we could figure out how to product electricity from a dark sky...





ZPM   ;D


OlJarhead

Just got back from a weekend at the cabin :)  We managed to get the rest of the drywall up and prepped for mudding and got about 1/2 of the lower portion of the cabin insulated which was nice since it hit 20 degrees Friday night and 18 Saturday night!  We kept warm with the woodstove going all weekend (all weekend!) and had a great dinner of buffalo chili that was warmed in the Dutch Oven on the stove for a few hours :)

Finished that off with some Single Barrel JD and Chess :)

Was a good weekend -- also spent some time walking around in the woods in Orange with Rifles pretending to hunt but what we were really doing was enjoying the mountain air and looking forward to getting back to the cabin to sit by the wood stove :D

No pics this time but maybe next!

My new job is of course taking me away from the both the PC and thinking and posting about cabins but I suspect it won't be long before I have time to do more and tell more.

Cheers
Erik

PS.  The solar power is running great :D  Batteries at full power when we arrived and remained there all weekend pretty much!

JavaMan

Sounds like a sweet weekend, jarhead...

I plan on heading up to my place in a couple weeks with the bow and a few arrows to pretend that I'm hunting elk.  Then, I hope the weekend after Thanksgiving to do it again and pretend to hunt deer.

Of course, I won't have as warm a place to hang out in!  It sounds like your place is turning into a very nice retreat.  Good job!

MountainDon

Quote from: OlJarhead link=topic=7672.msg124215#msg124215 date=1287373239

20 degrees
/quote]

Yeow!  We haven't even hit freezing yet, close but that doesn't count.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

OlJarhead

Good luck Java!  You see, you shoulda picked up that camper from me ;)

Don, the coldest it's been when I was there was 10 degrees last December but I know it can get a LOT colder then that.  This year is expected to be colder with a lot more snow and the next three are supposed to be MUCH colder!!!

Gotta get that insulation in!

JavaMan

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 20, 2010, 08:55:15 AM
Good luck Java!  You see, you shoulda picked up that camper from me ;)

Don, the coldest it's been when I was there was 10 degrees last December but I know it can get a LOT colder then that.  This year is expected to be colder with a lot more snow and the next three are supposed to be MUCH colder!!!

Gotta get that insulation in!

Yeah, I've asked for snowshoes for Christmas!  I figure if I ever want to get up into the place before July next year, I might need them! And a snowmobile is a bit too much money to spend. Two years ago I still couldn't make it up there on Memorial Day weekend - I got to within about 3/4 mile and couldn't go any further.

The historical data for my place says the low average is around 5-10 degrees.  There are a few outliers at below zero temps, but not many ... maybe that's because I'm south of you? d*

upa

5-10 degrees  ??? that's like sweater weather or least open jacket weather in the Prairies(honestly, I'm not kidding :(). My cabin thermometer was down to -26F more often than not last year.

Ok, now we need to hear from you Alaskan types on how much colder it gets :)


Woodswalker

Yo Erik,

Was over at my cabin this past week about 50 miles E of you.  Got to 17 degrees, and I was taking stuff out of the RV fridge to keep it from freezing so solid!  Nearly finished installing laminate flooring.  Moved some rustic furniture, rugs, bunkbed, etc. out of storage trailer and into the cabin.  Really starting to enjoy the place now.  Good insulation makes a huge difference.  Used the small woodstove on cold mornings until 10 AM or so, when sun took over warming things up.  Bagged a nice spike buck Monday morning.  Closed everything up for the winter.

Glad you guys got out into the woods some.  Really good to hear your solar system is working well.  Am sure the enthusiasm in your posts is motivating others to give it a go.

Steve

OlJarhead

Snowshoes!  I told my wife I want a couple sets for 'just in case'....but big agressive V groove chains and 4 wheel drive will get you there!  Thanks to Don and others here for convincing me to get those chains when I ran into 4 INCHES of solid ice on our road...ya it was a piece of cake once the chains went on :)

Alaskan cold?  Don't know about them but when my family moved to BC in 1967 it dropped to -59 degrees at our cabin in Vanderhoof BC WITHOUT FACTORING WIND CHILL.  Dawson Creek hit -75 and killed all power in town.  Several lost their lives :(  That winter we lived in an A Frame cabin with no insulation and a wood furnace and wood cook stove...ice formed INSIDE and we slept above the wood stove to stay warm and not freeze to death (literally).  The next winter we stayed in a friends cabin that actually had insulation but it made little difference (so it must not have been good)...I'll post a pic of that cabin here :)

In Hazleton when I was 14 we had a lengthy period at -35 to -40 and I was so used to it that I thought it was beautiful when the air froze :)  Yes air freezes...but we lived in a small house by then.

Woodsman:  you lucky dog!  We didn't see a single Buck and this weekend my son wants to chase them in the wind farms out of Dayton so we're headed there Saturday Morning.  We'll hunt a draw we know of in the AM and the wind farms in the PM then do it again on Sunday.  We GPS'd some bucks the last two years so we know where they are but they tend to stroll up out of the brush (where we can't go) right before dusk...sneaky buggers!

Honestly, thanks to MountainDon I really went full steam on the solar (and probably drove Don nuts for months on end -- thanks for putting up with me Don!) and I'm ecstatic :)  Don's and Glenn have been a HUGE help!  ANd I have MUCH to learn yet, but it's up and running and I can tell you, it isn't really that hard to do.  It's the $$$ that makes it tough if you are on a tight budget, but it's worth it!

Cheers
Erik

MountainDon

Snow shoes. We have MSR Denali snow shoes.

I like them as there are different extension tails available to allow for different weights of user (&pack or no pack) and differing snow conditions. Metal 'grabbers' for ice traction. They work well for us. For those who are more adventuresome, steeper trails, sidehills etc) there is another model with more metal grippers.



We got ours through REI but they haven't got them at present. Amazon does though
http://www.amazon.com/MSR-Denali-Classic/dp/B0009ROF32][url]http://www.amazon.com/MSR-Denali-Classic/dp/B0009ROF32[/url]
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

JavaMan

Yeah, but do they have enough extensions for my weight? ???  Those might reach all the way across the mountains to my house! d*

I am working on getting rid of the excess, but it's not going very fast (I married a good cook!)

(We now return you to your regular oljarhead thread)