Author Topic: Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey  (Read 181646 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« on: January 05, 2006, 08:21:32 PM »
In order to use 8' studs below and 4' knee wall above, would the kneewall be ok just being nailed to the floor? I've noticed that it's been called a hinge joint. But it would give a bit more room upstairs. Would I be better off forgetting that idea and planning on using 12' studs and losing a bit of headroom?
Jared

glenn-k

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2006, 08:48:33 PM »
I think PEG's advice to avoid the hinge joints is good -besides I like balloon framing.  Possibly you could go to longer studs if height was a problem.  It looks like the 1 1/2 uses 10' studs so 12' studs would be taller already.  I don't know about outward forces changing - if it's a problem with the higher sides or not, but would be worse with hinged walls.  I don't remember if John's posted anything about this or not.

peg_688

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2006, 09:04:37 PM »
My 2  cents , as I'm the hinge point guy , I really like to get all my parts working together , laps on joints weather they are "hinge "points in framing or trim joints  at finish .

  from experience the further away those joist can be made based on the material bieng used the better off everything will be , more flush , easer to plane in , less BUMPS , buldges , etc .

  When I frame , which is often , I decide to use my sheathing either vertital , or horz. , I use 9' sheets when it works better to tie a knee wall , to a  upper wall and "brake " my joints so platfrom framing is not so" Hingie"  

  This also "helps " in planing out wall diference's , siding bumps and also ties though this lapping , the walls inot a contunios box beam of sorts .

  Most builder do not do this and they pass code , is it ok , yes .

  So a lot of me is , "Just me " .  I always look for a better way to get it all right , STILL LOOKING , but I still have to try :) PEG  

jraabe

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 story
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2006, 09:16:15 PM »
I do get asked this question a lot. The way I have structured the roof, with site built trusses, I feel there may be some outward thrust to that long rafter and thus feel the balloon framed sidewall helps stiffen the wall and eliminates a "hinge" joint.

That said, I may be too conservative. Especially if you have a truss company or engineer design the truss - someone who knows your specific design conditions. It could be that outward forces are insignificant and you could build the roof on a 1/2 height pony wall and eliminate the ledger and long studs. It would certainly be easier (this is what is done in the Universal Cottage - two simple floors each with platform framed walls).

Putting in dormers is also relatively easy and several people have added this to their plans. I will be adding a downloadable detail for this in the support files at PlanHelp.com (the subscription site).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 09:17:51 PM by jraabe »

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2006, 05:50:04 AM »
Wouldn't balloon framing eat up a little height on the walls since part of the 10' (or 12') wall stud is sitting beneath the plywood floor?
Jared

glenn-k

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2006, 07:31:41 AM »
It would but realistically if you if you have them of exactly the same height using longer studs on the balloon, with the floor at exactly the same elevation using exactly the same flooring and ceiling materials, then they would work out exactly the same, but the balloon wall upstairs would be much stronger- resisting outward forces of the steep pitch roof.  If the hinged sections both folded out the roof would spread and fall the second floor level.  The solid studs tied in with the second floor joists would much more effectively resist that.  Sometimes it is easier to exagerate things in your mind to see what will happen in a given situation.  Remember the effects of gravity, wind, earthquakes, tornadoes, and leverage to help visualize this happeniing.  Did I miss any.  How about foundation - soft ground - hard ground relative to the size of the footing. :-/

Possibly some stud waste to make them the same unless you use the full longer stud- which may put you up a little higher. :)

jraabe

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2006, 08:38:08 AM »
Just to clear this up. I have designed the first floor as a platform frame and have the balloon framed walls sitting on top of this platform (the 10' or 12' long studs sit on top of the main level subfloor). Thus the total height of the wall with plates is 10' - 4.5" or 12' - 4.5".

In true, old fashioned balloon framing the stud extends below the subfloor all the way down to the sill. There is no advantage in doing that here. Only the loft floor is balloon framed.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 08:42:56 AM by jraabe »

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2006, 09:13:38 AM »
Ok, I was under the impression that the whole house was balloon framed. I'm having a heck of a time designing this thing where I can fit a couch, one chair and my entertainment center. I need a dining room for our table, which is solid oak, and our first purchase as a married couple. (We've only been together a year this month) We won't get rid of the table, so I may have to switch house plans. Got any ideas? The bedroom door should be hinged and the "window" between the kitchen and dining room would actually be a framed opening.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 09:14:49 AM by Jared »

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2006, 09:19:46 AM »
Here's as far as I've gotten on the second floor.

glenn-k

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2006, 09:47:31 AM »
My wife and I prefer open areas and have removed walls in our old house and rental to keep from having the boxed in feeling.  Sometimes if there is not a wall there then a couch can divide room space.  Just an idea. :-/

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2006, 10:01:03 AM »
I need to add a wall for the kitchen. My wife wants it not to be so open in case she doesn't quite get the kitchen clean then it won't be there for all to see. Is it just me, or in the original drawing for the 1.5 story, does the staircase extend over part of the bedroom door? It might be worth buying one of those stacked washer/dryers just to keep the floor plan the same. I really don't want to extend it past the original 30', just because I like the way it looks. I'm looking at the picture of the house and trying to find a place for a doorway for a later addition. If anything, I'd add size to the bathroom to add in the water heater, washer and dryer if I don't go with the stacked one. At most I'd add two feet on the length for the dining table.
Jared

Micky

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2006, 11:33:59 AM »
Unless you do a dormer, I don't think you are going to have enough head room at the top of the stair?

I added a bumpout in the living area for added seating.  I figured this would free up a lot of floor space that the couch otherwise would have taken.  This was easily done by extending the floor joists 24".  I put a simple shed roof over that portion.

glenn-k

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2006, 05:02:20 PM »
Another point, Jared - my wife like yours, doesn't like dishes showing.  Partly for that and for ease of use she made me change the sink out to an extra deep one in the cabin- this one is stainless - the one in our other house is cast iron - it spoiled her for wanting the deep sink.  A few dishes in it don't show much -to me it just means I can pile them deeper. :)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 05:02:54 PM by glenn-k »

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2006, 08:34:00 PM »
Good point about not having enough room at the top of the stairs. I'm trying to do the exterior in 3DHA and I'm having hell trying to get a roof over the house and a seperate roof over the porch. It keeps wanting to make them both one roof. I searched the Broderbund site, but it didn't mention anything. Got any help so I can post pics of what I want? And how do I make a multi level house?
Jared
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 08:42:14 PM by Jared »

glenn-k

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2006, 06:02:48 AM »
John  has a 3DHA tutorial here - which you may have seen.  http://www.countryplans.com/3dha/index.html

I don't think the company supports it and some things can't be done - that's about all I know about it-I've only played with it a little.

Jared

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2006, 07:22:15 AM »
All I need now is a roof over that little bit of porch in the front and i can't find how to do it on the tutorial.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2006, 07:22:28 AM by Jared »

jraabe

  • Guest
Re: head room for 1 1/2 storey
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2006, 07:56:55 AM »
3DHA does have its limits. Not sure if you can model what you want but would guess that you need to hip the corner and wrap that roof around the front. I would try making that another "room" with an invisable wall if needed and then try rebuilding roofs.

Sorry, I'm not an expert here.

Alan Burns(Guest)

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2006, 12:32:46 PM »
Quote


"Are ther ways to adjust the head room for the 1 1/2 storey?"

This thread started with the above question and concerns the 20' wide 1-1/2 story plan (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/50.html).

It was renamed after Micky stepped forward and explained how he built his cottage. (edited by John R.)

Pam(Guest)

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2006, 08:02:09 PM »
Hi,

I just bought the plans for the 1 1/2 story.  Really admire your house and was wondering what type of siding you used - looks real nice!

Pam

Micky

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2006, 07:57:14 AM »
The lap siding is Hardie Plank. http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/prodhome/hardiplank.php

The shake that I used on the gable ends and bump out is Nichiha. http://www.nichiha.com/sierrapremshake.htm

The Nichiha is similar to the Hardie except it is 1/2" thick versus 5/16".  This gave it a thicker profile that looked closer to cedar shake.  Also, the stainer said the Hardie Shake is very fragile.  I was very impressed with the Nichiha.

I had them both pre-stained locally with masons select.  The stain was designed for the cement siding. http://www.superdeck.com/masonsselect/6700spec.htm

My goal was to have something that looked close to rustic but very low maintenance.  

Dave(Guest)

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2006, 01:43:19 PM »
I like what I see and read. I couldn't find the pitch on the roof. Thanks, Dave

jraabe

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2006, 04:18:15 PM »
The 1.5 story cottage plans (as drawn) have a 12:12 pitch for headroom in the loft areas. Folks can and have adjusted that somewhat if they have things like a height restriction.

sevi(Guest)

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2006, 05:24:19 PM »
Very good threads here, I just bought land on the Black River in Québec, and I am considering building Micky's 1.5 story cottage. :D

glenn-k

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2006, 05:59:48 PM »
Sounds great Sevi.  If you get any pictures please feel free to post them.

Baine(Guest)

  • Guest
Re: Micky's 1 - 1/2 story cottage
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2006, 08:36:36 PM »
We are putting together a materials list for the 1 1/2 story and were wondering can 4x12 beams be used for an exposed ceiling throughout the cabin?  If so what is the approved spacing and span?