Analysis Paralysis. What path would you take based on your experience?

Started by MorganCouple, March 27, 2017, 03:55:29 PM

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MorganCouple

First post, but been lurking for a while and liking the community, advice, and projects here.  Thanks to user astidham for introducing me to the site.  Great guy and a wealth of knowledge.

The wife and I will be selling our house in town and building on 12 acres this year.  We need to build before we sell.  Beyond that I can't figure out what we will do  ???.  We have kicked around so many ideas so many times.  Building a garage and living out of it until we sell then attaching a house, or building the house separate.  Building a "mother-in-law" house and building bigger later.  Building the cottage home plan, maybe the two story, maybe with a garage in the lower story, or maybe adding an attached garage.  Tiny house...We are running in circles  d*.

Cost is an issue, given that we are spending what money we have available until we sell, then we will have a pretty good start to build whatever we want.  Trying to stay away from the bank for now if possible, but a builders loan shouldn't be a problem if necessary.  The foundation seems to be the priciest part of building, so any advice that can start with a diy, inexpensive foundation will be greatly appreciated.  Whatever type of structure we build, I am sure we will have use of it after we build our final house, as a garage, shop, storage/woodshop, mother-in-law house, or even rent to a family member.  Considering all building types.

Have any of you been in a similar situation and what have you done/would you do given your experience?


glenn kangiser

Ken Kern recommended a shop first so you have someplace to work from while building your house. Just a thought. :)

Possibly that could work as a garage later and have a temporary living quarters to start out. 
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


MorganCouple

Thank you for the reply.  We come back to this option more than any other, the only reason we haven't decided on it is the cost of the concrete slab.  $10 per square foot. 

jsahara24

Are you planning on running a well/septic to this temporary house? 

Will the town zoning officer let you move into a garage without having an external entrance to the apartment?  If so then perhaps a pole barn with a loft to turn into a 1BR apartment.  That would eliminate the foundation cost. 

Can you rent a house while you build the house you want? 

MushCreek

In this kind of scenario, everyone's experience will be a little different. We recently completed our project, and it was quite an adventure! We have 7 acres in upstate SC. I built the barn first- a traditional 28 X 48 on a concrete slab. I then lived in the barn while I built the house. My wife lived in our house in FL for the first 2 years of the project, working to keep up the income stream and health insurance. Once the house was dried in, she landed a job in SC, we sold the FL house, and I continued to build the house. We lived in the house basement, as the barn was uninsulated. The house is ICF, so very well insulated. Technically, we shouldn't have been living in the house, and we played a cat-n-mouse game with the inspectors so they wouldn't know that we were living on-site. I wanted a nice workshop anyhow, so building the barn first made sense. When we sold the FL house, it gave us a place to store all of our stuff until the house was finished.

I never built a house before. I've never plumbed an entire house, wired an entire house, or installed HVAC before. I'm 63 years old; too old for this kind of effort, but I survived. It was the adventure of a lifetime, and if I had it to do over, I would, although I wouldn't have done quite so much single-handed. For my efforts, we have a nice, sturdy little house and shop out in the country, and it's all paid for!
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.


NathanS

I think MushCreek is right, everyone is going to have a different experience.

I built a 10x14 storage shed and could not live without it. I just floated it on the ground to keep it cheap. If it comes out of level it could be jacked back into position if I care. I don't see a big deal on building a storage space without foundation, it is not an important structure.

If you want to build a garage with living space before building your house, be very careful with your budget. Now you need septic, electrical, plumbing, insulation, foundation, finishes... price wise it could easily turn into what it costs to build a house in the first place. Depending on climate and legality a travel trailer could better get the job done for cheaper and faster.

Design-wise my advice would just be to keep it as simple as possible and set yourself up for success. Simple gable roof without valley or hips, mostly rectangular, easy to flash etc.. spend extra to hopefully not have to redo things a few years down the road. When you are budgeting add 50% to your detailed costs and at least think about how much trouble you would be in if that happens. Remember on a two story with a 10-12 pitch you will have to be climbing around up there, and if it freaks you right out do you have the funds to have a pro come in and do it? In our area I think it would be difficult to get a construction loan as an owner builder because they want a house finished in like 3 or 6 months.

Good luck, it is lots to think about. But I will say, like MushCreek it is an adventure of a lifetime. I would not trade this experience for anything, and it is easily the most rewarding thing I have ever done.

bayview

We built a two car garage first.  To be used as a workshop and storage.  (Especially storage - since material has a tendency to "walk" off a job) 

We skipped a temporary electric pool and installed a permanent pole/meter.  All electric is run off that pole to the buildings underground in conduit.   Most new construction goes with the temporary and then installs the meter on the home.   I decided not to do it that way because of what I had read about the new "smart" meters radiation.  A water meter was next and I ran plumbing to the center of the property.

Then we  built a small cabin with a full bath and kitchen to live in during construction and would be used in the future for guests/hobbies.   

Our objective was to build a two bedroom/ two bath, one story home for retirement.

Unfortunately, illness halted our progress and we purchased a home in the same area. (Don't smoke!)

Everyone is different.   We had a neighbor purchase a travel trailer (no kids) and then resold it after he built his home.  Another built a 30 X 70 machine shed and built a one bedroom (20X30) inside of it.

Concrete slab prices in our area - N Central Texas runs about 6-7 per sq ft.  The price did not include site preparation and the sand bedding.  Their price included the forms, poly, rebar, concrete and labor.  We were lucky. . .    We have solid bedrock 12-18" below the surface.   Much of TX has expanding clay soil.  Which requires engineering and concrete post and beam construction. 

Your foundation may be determined by soil/frost conditions.   

/.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

MorganCouple

Quote from: jsahara24 on March 27, 2017, 08:52:41 PM
Are you planning on running a well/septic to this temporary house? 

Will the town zoning officer let you move into a garage without having an external entrance to the apartment?  If so then perhaps a pole barn with a loft to turn into a 1BR apartment.  That would eliminate the foundation cost. 

Can you rent a house while you build the house you want?

There won't be any zoning or code issues that I know of, building in between towns.  I looked at pole barns and got a couple quotes in, they are a little pricey in this area...but then I did price them with a slab foundation.  I never thought to build a sub floor in one.  This is definitely something to consider.  Thank you for the idea.

MorganCouple

Quote from: MushCreek on March 28, 2017, 04:58:19 AM
In this kind of scenario, everyone's experience will be a little different. We recently completed our project, and it was quite an adventure! We have 7 acres in upstate SC. I built the barn first- a traditional 28 X 48 on a concrete slab. I then lived in the barn while I built the house. My wife lived in our house in FL for the first 2 years of the project, working to keep up the income stream and health insurance. Once the house was dried in, she landed a job in SC, we sold the FL house, and I continued to build the house. We lived in the house basement, as the barn was uninsulated. The house is ICF, so very well insulated. Technically, we shouldn't have been living in the house, and we played a cat-n-mouse game with the inspectors so they wouldn't know that we were living on-site. I wanted a nice workshop anyhow, so building the barn first made sense. When we sold the FL house, it gave us a place to store all of our stuff until the house was finished.

I never built a house before. I've never plumbed an entire house, wired an entire house, or installed HVAC before. I'm 63 years old; too old for this kind of effort, but I survived. It was the adventure of a lifetime, and if I had it to do over, I would, although I wouldn't have done quite so much single-handed. For my efforts, we have a nice, sturdy little house and shop out in the country, and it's all paid for!

Thank you for the info, sounds like you have been through basically the same thing as we are coming into.  We are anxious to get started.  If we go the route you've gone, we have seriously thought about parking a travel trailer in the barn/shop.


MorganCouple

Quote from: NathanS on March 28, 2017, 08:28:13 AM
I think MushCreek is right, everyone is going to have a different experience.

I built a 10x14 storage shed and could not live without it. I just floated it on the ground to keep it cheap. If it comes out of level it could be jacked back into position if I care. I don't see a big deal on building a storage space without foundation, it is not an important structure.

If you want to build a garage with living space before building your house, be very careful with your budget. Now you need septic, electrical, plumbing, insulation, foundation, finishes... price wise it could easily turn into what it costs to build a house in the first place. Depending on climate and legality a travel trailer could better get the job done for cheaper and faster.

Design-wise my advice would just be to keep it as simple as possible and set yourself up for success. Simple gable roof without valley or hips, mostly rectangular, easy to flash etc.. spend extra to hopefully not have to redo things a few years down the road. When you are budgeting add 50% to your detailed costs and at least think about how much trouble you would be in if that happens. Remember on a two story with a 10-12 pitch you will have to be climbing around up there, and if it freaks you right out do you have the funds to have a pro come in and do it? In our area I think it would be difficult to get a construction loan as an owner builder because they want a house finished in like 3 or 6 months.

Good luck, it is lots to think about. But I will say, like MushCreek it is an adventure of a lifetime. I would not trade this experience for anything, and it is easily the most rewarding thing I have ever done.

Thank you for the reply and good advice.  Having the shop in the long run would be really nice, but no needed in the short term.  It would be costly, as you've said, and still not a house although we could live in it.  If we go this route I will almost certainly buy a travel trailer to park in it.  I believe it would be better to build the house first.  I've almost decided to do a metal roof to avoid that pitch, 4-12 or 5-12.

MorganCouple

Quote from: bayview on March 28, 2017, 11:16:36 AM
We built a two car garage first.  To be used as a workshop and storage.  (Especially storage - since material has a tendency to "walk" off a job) 

We skipped a temporary electric pool and installed a permanent pole/meter.  All electric is run off that pole to the buildings underground in conduit.   Most new construction goes with the temporary and then installs the meter on the home.   I decided not to do it that way because of what I had read about the new "smart" meters radiation.  A water meter was next and I ran plumbing to the center of the property.

Then we  built a small cabin with a full bath and kitchen to live in during construction and would be used in the future for guests/hobbies.   

Our objective was to build a two bedroom/ two bath, one story home for retirement.

Unfortunately, illness halted our progress and we purchased a home in the same area. (Don't smoke!)

Everyone is different.   We had a neighbor purchase a travel trailer (no kids) and then resold it after he built his home.  Another built a 30 X 70 machine shed and built a one bedroom (20X30) inside of it.

Concrete slab prices in our area - N Central Texas runs about 6-7 per sq ft.  The price did not include site preparation and the sand bedding.  Their price included the forms, poly, rebar, concrete and labor.  We were lucky. . .    We have solid bedrock 12-18" below the surface.   Much of TX has expanding clay soil.  Which requires engineering and concrete post and beam construction. 

Your foundation may be determined by soil/frost conditions.   

/.

I'm sorry that you didn't get to finish your projects.  Thanks for sharing your experience and for the advice. 

MorganCouple



The last couple of days we have been talking about this type of structure, but on pier and post foundation, 16*32 on the taller side.  We have been discussing building the taller side to be livable as a bathroom, kitchen, and living room.  The shorter side will be a 16*32 car port, but built in a way that will be easily converted to additional living space after the house sales.  Seems like this would be a very easy way to double square footage as the roof and foundation would be ready for the second phase of building....just add beams, joists, and walls (put simply, I know there is more to it than that :))

What do you guys think? 

ChugiakTinkerer

Except for the pier and post part of it, sounds like a great idea.  For a structure the size you are considering, you really ought to look at a continuous perimeter foundation.  For DIY construction you could do your own cinder block foundation, or perhaps a permanent wood foundation.  Even though you may not need code inspections to build it, if you ever want to finance it or perhaps sell to a buyer that does then the bank will want a structure that meets code.  Pier and post foundations aren't in the residential code because there are too many potential complications.  A geotechnical study and an engineer's stamp would probably be needed to reach the same level of confidence in the foundation that you would get by building according to the prescribed methods.

The Sketchup software program is available as a free download that allows you to visualize just about anything in three dimensions.  It has a somewhat steep learning curve but there are many tutorial videos online that can lessen the severity of the learning curve.  There's also commercial home design software that can be purchased for under $100.  Last I looked the best rated of these was Chief Architect, but it costs a little more.  Whether you spend time or money, you should consider investing in acquiring and becoming familiar with some software package that lets you visualize your dream house or try out different design concepts.

Also if you update your profile to indicate where you want to build it will help others know whether things like frost depth, snow load, or hurricane winds are something you need to take into account.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

MorganCouple

Thank you for the info, good advice.  My brother was a mason, so cinder block would be pretty easily done.  I've used SketchUp some, and I've been messing with Sweet Home 3D a little also.  I will update my info next chance I get.  Thanks again.


NathanS


MorganCouple

Quote from: NathanS on March 28, 2017, 05:44:28 PM
Take advantage of that. Start buying him beer now.  ;D

Just changed out his battery cable in the parking lot of a steak house  :)

ChugiakTinkerer

I like Sweet Home 3D for initial layout, and once I have what I think is a good floor plan I move on to Sketchup.  There are some amazing plugins for Sketchup that generate walls, foundations, trusses, etc.  Nathan Wilkerson has done some incredible work and posts here under the username Medeek. See the Referral Links board for some of his plugins.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

MushCreek

I forgot to mention that I started out in an elderly pop-up camper, which i then moved into the barn for the duration. I have a build thread here if you want to see it. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12170.0
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.