From "Mortgage-Free ~ Radical Strategies"

[Demian]

In the Real Goods book by Rob Roy titled "Mortgage FREE, Radical Strategies for Home Ownership" in Chapter 5 he writes about design considerations and provides illus fig 5-8 for House Examples A & B.

Then, he suggests House C in fig 5-9 as a compromise.

"A" is a 24' x 36' rectangle.

"B" is 24' x 36' with a two wing or courtyard feature.

"C" encloses the courtyard feature as a "center" greenhouse.

I really like "C".  It's a really neat concept.  Which of John's plans could best incorporate this feature?

Demian

[JRR]

I have just bought and read this book.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

[glenn kangiser]

I haven't read this book but the mortgage free concept is easiest if you can do it without permits or regulation. We have approximately $5000 in our basic underground cabin not counting power or unecessary extras.  We have been working on it for about 2 1/2 years and it is approximately 2000 square feet.  It is built from Mike Oehler's designs in "The $50 and up underground house."  Financing was pocket change and we don't consider reselling it so ease of sale financing is not a problem.  The title company manager said they sell unpermited owner built homes or improvements regularly and it is not a  real problem anyway.

A friend of ours trying to do a smaller size underground house using engineers, bank financing and permits with approval of building officials. Her cost is estimated at over $1,000,000.00 and she still has not received approval of the banks or the building department after spending thousands of dollars.  She has done the architectural work herself and has been trying to get approval off and on for about 15 years.

[benevolance]

So I guess Glenn you are saying

That if you feel it is safe and secure and you want to do it....DO IT!

Don't ask anyone about it, tell anyone about it
Plan ahead of time get everything ready and then do it...Not giving anyone the chance to stop you from doing it.

That is sort of how we installed my fathers septic system....and built one of his workshops...


I have decided that Building permits are scams...Safety is not an issue...

Think about it....The county where you live will be getting more money in taxes yearly off your land once you build a dwelling of any kind...The logic being that buildings increase the property value...

So if you building the shop house etc... increases the amount of taxes the county gets from you...Why then would or should you go and buy a permit to build... when that permit is nothing but a piece of paper that costs money.

Seriously...If you were building the dwelling on sacred habitat or near a stream...Maybe you would need to follow guidelines to ensure you did not kill off a bird or a type of fish

But as far as safety goes...If you ever do get on the grid and get electricity...The house has to meet a tough specific inspection to get the power turned on.... To make sure it is not a fire trap

And things like stairwell safety...Doors windows get addressed when you have a final inspection for the occupancy permit...

So there is no real logical arguement that all the permits allow the house to be built safely

Just a plain and simple cash grab...

What is more it goes a long way toward making sure that you borrow money to build...Because permits have time limits on them... If you build yourself spending money as you make it ....It could take several years to complete a house....The building permit I paid for here in SC for my garage was good for 6 months only!!!!!!!!

Things like Locally milled lumber are not acceptable in a lot of areas....They want you to build with lumber that you paid taxes on

I wish someone would take the government to court over this type of injustice...

Sassy.. you going to stand up for us???

[glenn kangiser]

Boy - you really dug this one out of the archives, Peter.  

When reading the below posting keep in mind that I am mostly talking about my feelings for myself - don't get bent out of shape if something rubs you the wrong way.  I feel that your choices for you are as good as or better than my choices for me.  No belittling here.  Just telling you how I think - you do as you feel is right.

First thing I will say is I feel it is my constitutional right to put food on my family --- no wait a minute - that was dubya that felt that way.  I meant to provide affordable shelter for my family without a bunch of laws that violate the constitution and/or bill of rights making me a slave to the system...

If you feel this is your right too then more power to you, but be aware that it may come to a fight so you need to educate yourselves to put up a good legal fight and that education may not even save you from trouble.  Ken Kern wrote The Owner Builder and The Code - or similar name--- and gave examples but without concrete advice.  It is not possible to give concrete advice on this because it is playing a gray area to the max.  It was not gray in the old days.  It has been grayed by lawyers, politics - greed and lust for power over your personal rights and property.

http://www.landrights.com/
LANDRIGHTS.COM

A favorite link above.  You hear of these old codgers once in a while who kept the highway from going through or something similar.  What does he know that you don't -- educate yourself the best you can - soak it up in case you need to use it, if that is the way you want to go, but be aware that the day may come when your knowledge will be tested.

Mike Oehler touches on a bit of this in his book.  There is more but it is scarce.  He basically says stay under the radar and don't throw sticks in the bee hive along with some good trouble avoidance advice.

I'm saying each person has to decide for himself.  If he feels that the rights intended for us by our founding fathers have been trampled to the ground and stolen -- if he feels that they would now do the Boston Tea Party on our current government and system if they were alive,--- if he feels that the way it is now was never the way it was meant to be and he wants to get his own little piece of it back -- then it is up to him to do it -- even though he may have to live with the consequences of his decision.  When are we going to stop letting them screw us over as individuals?

As far as contracting goes, at the same time, I feel that if people choose to be wards of the state and want their protection, then it is also up to us to honor that.  It's their hard earned money.  If they choose to spend the rest of their life in servitude to the system then we should honor their choice and give them all the permits, taxes and regulations they want.  Some people just need to be told what to do.  They want it.  They will pay for it, so lets let them have what they want.  They are happy with the security they think they are paying for.  Let them have it.  I feel it is my duty to help them jump through the hoops they want to, and do things properly to code, rules regulations and at all costs, if that is their desire and they are my client (and are willing to pay for it).

If an owner builder chooses to go the permit route to keep up their property values and prevent future sale time problems, have the bank as the legal owner of their land,  then that is their choice also and it is a wise move for them to do as they wish.

If they are motivated they will find ways to do it without the debt or without as much -- speaking as someone who is not a stranger to debt.

As for me though, they can Just leave me the hell alone.

[benevolance]

glenn

I feel cheated by your last answer....Have you gone politically correct on us...Does the sound of helicopter hover over the underground cabin frighten you these days?

Come on ...It is time to light some bonfires man
Black helicopters be damned

[glenn kangiser]

Sorry Peter-- I will let people learn by telling them my experiences and hope that if it is their desire to do the same, that they will, and that they may have gained some insight from my experiences,  but I don't want to be responsible for their problems if they choose to try it and things don't work out the way they think they should.  I know what I will do and will take responsibility for my own actions.  I have no fear of a fight with public servants, whether I win or lose.  I view it as a hobby -- as recreation, so if the time comes we will play the game to the fullest.

Another point.  You are your own worst enemy many times in this game.  If you ask -- Do you want to put your hand in my wallet and take out as much money as you can -- they will do it.  If you don't ask, then there was never an offer -- they don't even know what they are missing and  you don't know because you forgot to ask.  They are not the all knowing gods they want you to think they are.  They are simply public servants.  They are naked until they get up, get dressed and put their title on which then makes them what they think they are or possibly more than they really are.  They put their pants on one leg at a time -- just like dubya.

[benevolance]

Glenn

I hear you

People ask me all the time what I do and I tell them and they get a weird look on their face....What works for me obviously does not and cannot work for them...

Point taken