Barn shop

[Windpower]

I am starting a new project -- after last winter of not having a 'half way warm' place to work on stuff I have decided to wall off part of the old dairy barn for a shop. It will have 6 foot wide double doors in (2 three foot wide doors that open in -- so I can drive the tractor or car in for work if needed)


I am currently cleaning out the old milking stalls and getting ready to wall off the end of the barn to use as a shop.

the overall dimensions will be about 29' X 24'

I need to wall off the rest of the barn and insulate

I think I will use 7/16" OSB and 2" Tuff R (or similar) for the insulation

I have an old forced air furnace (45000 BTU IIRC) that should take the chill off

any input is, as always, appreciated -- pics to follow

[John Raabe]

Should be a nice working space and an interesting project. 

[rick91351]

That sounds like it would be a great shop.  I like the idea of using a useable barn or what ever rather than the rebuilding thing.  With your handle - wondering are you off grid?   

[Windpower]

That sounds like it would be a great shop.  I like the idea of using a useable barn or what ever rather than the rebuilding thing.  With your handle - wondering are you off grid?   

I got most of the demolition done now. only stepped on one nail --- how bad could it be, it is only been steeped in cow manure for 40 years or so.....
not too painful, putting lots of oil of oregano and Neosporin on it

It should be pretty inexpensive to finish and insulate and we really need a warm shop for this winter.....

We are not off-grid yet

I have 7.5 Kw of solar panels and some Rolls Surrette batteries  but they are not operational yet

the windmill in my avatar is a rebuilt circa 1930's Aeromotor that will hopefully be pumping next year for the gardens and livestock

It has been a tough 'summer'

well pump failure (twice), back hoe drive failure, Ford truck major repair (it stalled at a major intersection 100 miles from home while towing a tailer with moving stuff (that is the short list)

consequently we are behind schedule on everything including the solar panels....


Thanks John, this forum is a wealth of knowledge and help for these projects

[rick91351]

Those Aeromotors were  / ARE quite a little engine.  They pumped and powered without a lot of maintenance.  If you penciled out all the water they have pumped you would be drowned in both water and figures. 

About the nail that is a bummer.  I don't worry so much about the cow manure in that  form as I do tetanus.  We had that medical herb class up here and WOW it is unbelievable what is available in nature and natural.....  I only wish I was a lot younger to learn about it.       

Those setbacks be they mechanical or that mind set it should not take that long to do.  I guess are just a 'unfun' fact of life. 

Keep on plugging and you will get er done.....  Yep tell that to myself every morning ....   

[Windpower]

Been away from the project for 10 days or so writing my permaculture design for the farm as the 'final test' for Geoff Lawtons Permaculture design course.

So back to the shop.....

Some decisions

Insulation -- I still plan to use foam or foil/foam insulation with OSB over it

but if I go with 1 inch R5 instead of 2 inch R10 it will save about $500 -- since the shop will only be heated intermittently it might take a long time to pay for it in fuel (or wood) savings .....

Floor
I am thinking of pouring concrete over the old cracked-in-spots flooring -- there are also 16' wide by 8' deep gutters that used to be for the Barn-O-Matic manure cleaner system

a couple thoughts on the gutters -- If I calculated correctly it should only use about 2 to 3 yards to fill

1)   It was suggested to fill the gutters with 4 inches of gravel then concrete over the top -- at most saves a yard of concrete

2)  Or just fill in the complete gutters with concrete (where I am leaning)


Post in the way

There are 2 support posts I would like to remove  to free up the space. They only are there as far as I can determine to support the hay loft floor above -- the roof is supported at the outside foundation -- since I do not plan to ever use the hay loft for storing hay I was wondering if this would be safe -- obviously I need to augment this with pictures and a diagram -- later today if things go well....

well I am off to work....

[Windpower]

I just realized that the snow will be flying in about 2 months 


So I have decided to go with plan "b"

the back end of the barn is the newest section -- decent flat concrete and a 7' X 7' door.

It is smaller @  12' X 29' but I will be able to complete it faster and cheaper the the original plan (the concrete people are way backed up due to the late spring that "didn't arrive 'til June")

The back section is almost finished I just need to put up some foam insulation, tear out the old stalls, rebuild the doors and wire it -- there is even a cement pad off the 7 X 7 door

The front end will have to wait another year.

[dablack]

That seems like the way to go.  Better something than nothing.  With all your setbacks, it would be better to finish something small just to help you feel better!

I'm on Lawton's website all the time.  What are your plans so far?

Austin

[Windpower]

dablack:

Wow,  a fellow permaculture enthusiast

I finished Lawton's on line course -- it was a significatant investment in time and money but I think it will pay off.

We are going to go with swales and berms with managed intensive grazing in the alleyways for cattle. We will be planting chestnut, walnut, hazelnut and Korean Stone pine trees along the berms. A local pc farmer (Mark Shepard) has developed nut trees that thrive in this climate -- he selected them over the last 20 years using his STUN technique -- Sheer Total Utter Neglect -- only the hardy ones survive

Here is a put-together from google earth and some county maps with some lines drawn in 

ponds and swales in blue, contour lines in white at 10' elevations, zones are outlines in red and green and bright  blue




So yesterday I gutted the new shop -- it was filled with stalls and gates for the dairy calves -- it looked like and a bunch of old motor bikes

I will continue today getting the debris burned 

[dablack]

I can see you have indeed taken the class.  Nice work.  I'm hoping to move more that direction in a couple of years.  Right now I'm mostly interested in building soil and a pond (after the house is built).  We have a seasonal spring that almost cuts our property in half.  Perfect spot for a large pond.   I'm planning on adding chickens and start building soil with them. 



Since you worked so hard on your post, I threw together our plan as well.  No berms or swales yet as we already live on hilly land.  Here is a quick shot of what I'm thinking as far as a pond and planting.  The only thing we have done so far is plant 10 apples, 2 pears, 2 figs and 250 pines.  The trees are gone from the orchard area (where the apples, pears, and figs are), but I still need to clear them from the garden area.  The trees are also gone from the pecan/walnut area.  This winter I'm hoping to put in five peaches (in the orchard) and five pecans and walnuts in their area.  In a couple of years we can build the dam for the spring.  The build site is at least 40' above the pond surface. 



To the left of this picture is where the spring starts.  The build site is at the peak of the hill. 

Austin

[Windpower]

very nice, Austin

[Windpower]

Well those 2 months flew by

I have some pics of the shop

I am starting to move into it but it is still a bit of a mess

Details:  2" foam insulation  over the original OSB with 1/2" OSB over that

currently heating with 1500 watt electric heater -- it heats to 60 within about an hour from 42 degrees start

two 20 Amp and one 15 amp circuits
one 220 V 50 amp

Gravel ramp to 7 foot back door

twelve 2 bulb T-8 fluorescent lights (for my old eyes)

overall it is 11.5 ' X 29.5 ' with a 7.5' ceiling

Here is what it looked like after the clean up and taking out the stalls and shoveling the hay and manure

It cleaned up nice but the original OSB was not in good shape





Starting to move stuff in -- overall it is going to work nicely for this winter, I think. Not a moment too soon either I just looked out and the first snow of the season is coming down.   




[/URL]

[GSPDOG]

Thanks for this I have been thinking about something similar when I start building the new barn next year.

[Windpower]

GSP, this was already there

If I were planning a new barn I think I would go with another 10 feet wide or maybe 20 X 30 with a regular garage door,  too

this has a slider and they tend to stick in ice and snow

but then today I screwed the door shut to  keep the 20 gusting 25 mph wind from the north with snow  (yep, winter is here)-- three screws can be opened quick with the drill if need be for getting the tractor or car in for service

It took 2 hours to go from 40 degrees to 60 today -- not bad for 1500 watts of heat -- when it really gets cold I think I'll need more watts

I am happy with the foam R-10 and OSB -- so far 55 degrees is quite comfortable with a light jacket or sweatshirt doing normal shop stuff

it was a lot more work than I thought, but that seems to be par for the course 

[rick91351]

Looks great....   

A lot of hard work paid off.  Great to use older buildings rather than tear them down and have to rebuild. 

You are so correct with the roller doors then can be pretty drafty.  I once drilled a few holes through the sliding doors to a shop I had and through the wall or jamb.  Then I made some long bolts from thread all and sort of keyed them where they would not turn when loosing the nuts on the inside.  Outside nuts were spot welded so no thievery.  Easily unbolted them from the inside.  That worked okay.  I had an electric furnace in there (ceiling mount)  That was nice for a while, then when it got cold because the doors were not insulated I made three insulated panels that fit in the doorway.  Those I could take apart and set aside to get stuff in and out.  That alone would have been better than my long bolts.  Yes those panels were a pain in the rear but a little heat even when it got down to zero as well insulated as I had that shop it was pleasant.  But I thought that shop was going to be plenty big for what I was doing at the time.  20 X 24 just was not large enough when working 16 ft boards and sheet goods sometimes were a real pain to handle when I had a few thing here and there glued up and you went to move something.       

[Windpower]

Good idea Rick, I think I will have to make some removable panels for the sliding door -- it is currently not insulated

I have a couple sheets of 2" foam that will work -- I think I will just screw them to the door with some OSB or 1 inch pine over them

The weather underground (wunderground.com) is predicting overnight temps of 6 to 8 degrees and daytime highs in the low 20's for next week and 3/4 inch of snow Monday.

where's global warming when you need it ? 

[Windpower]

As a long ago friend used to say "the hawk be commin down on us"

translate "winter is fast approaching"

So with snow/maybe blizzard  coming Monday I spent a bit of time in preparation

I took Rick's recommendation about the sliding door and insulated it

big difference in  heating

OK, it looks like a quilt but it works




I reused these threaded hooks to cinch it tight against the wall -- even with 25 mph winds there was virtually no air coming in.

I am ready for the hawk  (I think)

[Windpower]

"Permaculture for profit" here is a Geoff Lawton video taken at  Mark Shepards farm. He is about 10 miles from here. It is very close to what we are planning here, in fact we are ordering trees from him for spring planting.

You may have to 'log in' with an email to see this, but it is free

http://www.geofflawton.com/fe/74613-permaculture-for-profit?r=y

or try this link

http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=9bjN6&m=3ZWxqM1.pmjt1qL&b=r0v4KlmE5vd_3dQtKj18iQ

[Texas Tornado]

Awesome video by Geoff... I would love to do this with my place but can't justify the cost for taking the course for just my place...

[dablack]

I've been a member of that site for a while and have seen all the videos.  That is cool how close you are to Mark!

Tex,  If you watch all the videos you get the high points of the course!  It is all about letting nature do the work for you.  Take advantage of what is there.

Austin

[Texas Tornado]

LOL I don't have 1 tree on my flat black gumbo land...