Author Topic: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)  (Read 711663 times)

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Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2009, 02:10:31 PM »
http://www.altestore.com/store/Kits-and-Package-Deals/Off-Grid-Cabin-Systems/Off-Grid-Cabin-package-4-520W-PV/p5694/
Spendy unit but probably more then I need.

http://www.ordermo.com/ofsosy.html
These guys have a small 160watt system I was looking at that might be more in line with what I need?

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/off-grid-cabin_solar-systems.html#SPS%20Cottage%20115
These don't include batteries so I'd have to get those...

Anyway, one thing I've not mentioned is that I work from home and becuase of that I could possibly do work in the cabin when I am on my get-away weekends or weeks (I work a lot) so having enough power to run the laptop would be a good thing.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:16:29 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2009, 02:50:41 PM »
How do you NOT go work on your cabin?  I can't really justify the money ($140) to drive there and back without SOMETHING to do and I need to get my windows and a door sorted before I start framing walls -- heck I need to finish the plan for the walls too!

But I'm so motivated I could scream!

I'm ready to go pound nails RIGHT NOW and it's only Tuesday!

Are you addicted?  Clearly I am!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:16:41 PM by MountainDon »

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2009, 03:22:56 PM »
I have been highly addicted to work, work, work on our cabin and property since the all of 2006. I slowed a tad once the cabin was dried in. Now that it is just about completed I've slowed a little more, or rather shifted energy back to the task of thinning out the trees. I would still rather be up there than here.  ;D  Luckily I have only a 66 mile (one way) drive.



Anyway, one thing I've not mentioned is that I work from home and because of that I could possibly do work in the cabin when I am on my get-away weekends or weeks (I work a lot) so having enough power to run the laptop would be a good thing.

Back to my first point; do an honest energy assessment. Then add 50% to it.  :D  Once you know how many KwH you would use in a typical 24 hour day then you have a much better handle on what you really need. The good thing is that a laptop does not use much power at all. I once measured my laptop actual use with a Kill-A-Watt meter and ound the actual use on AC power was something like half the rated power on the AC adapter/charger. The Kill-A-Watt is great for measuring the actual power use on any AC appliance up to 1800 watts. It doesn't work on DC.


Personally, and this may simply be "me", I have an aversion to off the shelf kits. They come with the parts the vendor wants to sell, which may be different from what I really want. I took a couple years, maybe longer, in studying up on solar and I know that not everyone has the time or the desire to do so. I'm probably odd man out there. Glenn has a large investment in time and equipment in PV and wind power as well.

There are a lot of vendors out there, some better than others I'm sure. I've dealt with two mainly. Affordable Solar in Albuquerque and theSolar.Biz . The Solar.biz doesn't do kits. Tom can help in a system design. Affordable has been helpful too. I will admit to a bias towards them that is partly because they are located near me and I can pick up and save on freight on some items.


One thing I discovered was that many popular charge controllers and inverters may not work at some of the lower temps my equipment at our cabin is exposed to in winter.


Have you read our Of Grid power topic? It's not a be-all or an end-all to alternate power but there is some good info scattered about that topic.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2009, 03:39:34 PM »
Thanks Don,

I started to calculate needs but am still unsure what they will really be.  I have camped for several days in our tent trailer and use it steadily on the property now and it has one 12v deep cycle RV battery (from Les Swabb) and that seems to be fine for what we need.  When I need AC I run the generator (so I cheat).

I've been looking at small solar charging systems as a means to get a 'cheap' start on things.  One that I've looked at was a $200 panel and a $30 charge controller that is supposed to charge a 12v battery in several hours and can have more then one panel added to it.  It's undoubtedly way too small but I fiugured it might teach me a thing or two.

I've also begun using solar powered outdoor spot lights (security lights) and am happy with them though my main one is burned out and I need to fix it.

I've been trying to read that thread as well as others -- but I'm getting ADD I guess and need to get doing something -- so I jump around.  Anyway, one thought I had was go small with a system I can expand on easily enough and then if it isn't enough, add more :)

I work in telecom and used to build MW sites for Cell backhaul -- what this means is that I'm familiar with installing power systems and battery backup systems with DC controllers and rectifiers (chargers) so I figure I can do the work myself but don't know enough to just go buying parts....

But I've got several months yet as I don't plan on getting the solar power stuff until sometime early next year :)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:16:59 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2009, 02:13:22 PM »
Well the wife and I went and looked at windows.  We were debating some pretty cheapo options for the cabin however in the end the Vinyl Low-E windows won out.  Why?  After all, I'm talking $1000 for windows instead of perhaps a few hundred!  Well, two things:  One the wife likes the look better (she wins) and two I'm thinking that with a VC Aspen the better insulation might actually be called for.  Let me explain:

When I lived in a 600 sq ft cabin the wood stove roasted me out!  It wasn't something I could easily dampen down and it was designed for a larger place.  Thus I assumed (silly me) that I'd have the same issue in this case.  It doesn't sound like it.

So, with the VC Aspen designed specifically for us :) (small cabin owners) then having good insulation will make a big difference.  

I also stumbled on a Jotul cook stove -- very tiny one -- for $895 (he's had it ten years).  It's probably not approved for WA State (shhh) which has very stringent emissions laws but it's nearly half price and would be excellent to have if the propane ran out! ;)

So I might convince the wife to let me get it too....
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:17:12 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2009, 02:38:18 PM »
Ordered the VC Aspen today :)

I checked out several and found that this one was the smallest that also was approved for WA State.  The Jotul wasn't and the others I found were 30,000 BUT units which I think are just too big for a small 14x24 cabin.

One thing I've been considering is that I have the luxury of finding out.  After all, I'm going to build a 12x18 someday and if I feel the VC Aspen isn't big enough I can move it to this smaller cabin :)  If I like it, I'll get another for the 12x18!

Win win!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:17:24 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2009, 11:30:00 AM »
OK Decided to put my drawings up that I've been working on -- for the walls.

I've scanned, cut and pasted from The Little House Plans I purchased from this site (John I hope this is OK to post here??  Please edit out if not and let me know what I need to do to post -- thanks).


This is the South wall -- the only door to enter the cabin.  It looks at both the driveway coming in as well as up the hill of the property -- it's the best view from down below and is south facing which should mean the door won't freeze shut and the snow will melt away easier :)

scanning and moving around throws things out of proportion a little and I modified the window drawings a little to try to match but basically this should be a 4x4 picture window with sliders a full sized door and a small window in the sleeping area (I'm still deciding if that shoudl be 3x2 or 2x2.


The North wall shows a 2x4 window on the west side and a 4x2 over the sink in the kitchenette as well as a small bathroom window.

This side looks down the property towards the lowest portion -- and towards the creek.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:17:40 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2009, 11:30:58 AM »

This would be the East wall -- window over bed in sleeping area (more or less) a small 2x2 and a 2x2 in the loft.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:17:54 PM by MountainDon »

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2009, 11:37:15 AM »

West wall

Notice the offset fireplace.  I think this would be ok if it's centered between the lower and upper window.  The idea is to keep it as close to the peak as possible for support reasons but not to intrude on the windows themselves and to not run it inside the cabin to keep roof penetrations to zero (hard to leak if there are no holes in it) ;)

Any thoughts on any of these is appreciated!  After all, I've got to complete in the next day or so and then frame them!!!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:18:10 PM by MountainDon »

Offline Yonderosa

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2009, 07:12:45 PM »
Since we do get a good bit of snow some years in this area I like the idea of some kind of 'cricket' over the front door to divert snow that slough's off.  Below the fascia the snow really piles up and is the last to melt away in spring.  Not knowing the floorplan if there was a way to move the entry door to the gable end would solve that issue too.  With your access winter visits might not be an option anyway so not sure how crittical it would be.

I'm also a fan of overhangs both at the fascia and at the gable ends.  I'm fairly protected yet wind can still drive snow and rain onto the porch.  Last year the snow remained about knee deep.  The overhangs kept the snow away from the building for the most part.  We've had some rain storms - sideways blowing rain storms - that managed to get most of the porch wet.  If you do decide to add some overhangs consider the steep (12/12?) pitch of your roof and how it might affect windows, trim, headroom, soffit, doors... etc. when figuring projection (probably didn't need to say it but just in case) to avoid interference.  

This is what my place looked like in February.  The quiet and solitude is absolutely glorious.  Very few souls within miles of me, just a few critters - surprising number of deer - and the temperature, in the teens, is quite comfortable outside with a hot beverage and a comfy chair.



My roof (8/12) isn't as steep and holds a fair amount of snow.  When I visited in April most of the snow was gone except for below the eves.  This year is was very dry and easy shoveling.
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2009, 07:36:45 PM »
Congrats on the VC stove.  :D


I second the thought about the door on the long side. In our original versions, I was going to place our door there, but didn't want a shed roof porch on the side where snow sliding off the main roof would collect. Nor did I want to mess with a dormer type roof over a small porch. That was my personal thing; I didn't want to deal with cutting the metal roofing to it. Maybe a poor excuse, but there it is. Hence our door on the end with a modified shed roof.  I also like Yonderosa's porch and roof.


The amount of overhang (~26 inches) on the eves on our cabin would have been a problem with a steeper pitch roof. Raising the wall height would help. It keeps the summer sun out of the windows, in fact it shades virtually the entire south side wall in July & August, and now lets the sun hit the glass and brighten/warm up the interior. In winter it also gives a safe space to walk outside from one end to the other.


The only question I have regarding the chimney and stove placement is how close to that lower floor vinyl window will the stove be?


Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Oljarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2009, 08:42:18 AM »
Thanks guys,

What isn't seen in these drawings is the porch!

I put the door on the south wall becuase the south wall will get more sun and melt more snow.  I also will be building a deck around the entire cabin (ala Nash) and putting an enclosed porch in front of the door.

I will be putting a deck roof over the deck -- at least 4 feet anyway -- at some point and the drawings aren't to scale and don't include the 10' walls (sorry I was in a hurry).  So with 10' walls I figure I can get away with less overhang since I'm going to put a roof on the deck surrounding the cabin :)

I'll try to get the plans done closer to what I intend so it's easier to see but in the meantime I might try to find another countryplans builders cabin that inspired some of this...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:04:48 PM by MountainDon »

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2009, 02:13:35 PM »
I will be off to the shop site this weekend :)

Need to get walls framed up and maybe if the burn ban is lifted get some wood burned too.

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2009, 02:25:58 PM »
It's always good to get rid of or reduce the fire danger. We'll be doing the same thing Thursday thru Monday.

G/L
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2009, 05:25:51 PM »
It's always good to get rid of or reduce the fire danger. We'll be doing the same thing Thursday thru Monday.

G/L

I'm also planning on trimming limbs to about 6 feet off the ground but I figure it might take a LONG time to get there!  20 acres is pretty big and I've got LOTS of trees :)

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2009, 07:11:21 PM »
Start around the cabin and make ever widening circles.  That's a great idea to clear of the dead lower limbs, even the living ones at times. That's know as ladder fuel; makes it easier or a ground fire to climb into the tree tops. We have some of that to do as well.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2009, 12:24:22 PM »
Start around the cabin and make ever widening circles.  That's a great idea to clear of the dead lower limbs, even the living ones at times. That's know as ladder fuel; makes it easier or a ground fire to climb into the tree tops. We have some of that to do as well.

That was exactly my idea!  Start with a 100 foot radius and work my way out.

need to get a trailer for the ATV to haul good burning wood back to the cabin site and to haul stuff from various locations to the burn pile spots.

But with the difficulty of getting to the property (hours) I'm always limited in time....but lots of camp fires should help!

:)

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2009, 12:55:08 PM »
Achoring walls.

One thing I don't see in the plans and my memory cannot bring back for me:  anchoring walls to the floor.

I'm thinking I need to bolt the walls to the floor but I just can't seem to recall what is required on a wood framed floor.

Thanks in advance.
Erik

Offline Bobmarlon

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2009, 08:29:45 PM »
to my knowledge you need two nails between each two studs with the nails up close to the studs.   Im not sure which size nail though I used 3 1/4

Offline SkagitDrifter

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2009, 09:15:53 AM »

The sheeting should extend below the bottom plate and tie into the floor framming.
Nailing through the bottom plate into the sub-floor will hold the walls in place- but the real strength is in the sheets that tie the walls to the floor.  For engineered sheer walls I believe there needs to be some kind of bolt/mechanical tie-down- I'm sure $impson makes one.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
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Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2009, 10:28:54 AM »
I was thinking that since it's 16 oc and nailing is 16oc the intent is two 16d nails into the joist.

Offline ScottA

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2009, 12:28:05 PM »
I ran my sheeting down and attached it to the rim joist with 2 rows of nails.

Offline OlJarhead

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2009, 12:56:36 PM »
I ran my sheeting down and attached it to the rim joist with 2 rows of nails.

How far down?  I plan to do the same thing actually and was thinking of going the entire 5.5" down the rim joist with felt and sheeting.

I'm doing 10' walls anyway so might as well go to the bottom of the rim joists and the top of the wall (so 10 1/21 min).


Offline OlJarhead

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SNOW!
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2009, 01:44:36 PM »
Geez can't I catch a break?

I'm getting ready to head out to the property and discovered it would be 12-18 degrees (F) tonight in the nearest town (about 1500 feet lower in altitude too)...so it will be COLD tonight!

But then I read Monday SNOW is expected!!!!  YIKES!

So, now I'm fighting an issue:  If I frame up the walls and get them done and it snows and I have just a tarp on top of the framed up walls and floor the tarp will of course cave and the snow will land smack dab in the middle of my cabin floor :(

So, my thinking is that I've got to work fast and efficiently and frame the loft too so that I can at least have the tarp stop on the loft if it does snow and crash inward....then maybe the following weekend get it out and frame the roof -- which means I'd miss some of hunting season :(

I'd hoped to frame the walls, tarp it all and then wait until after hunting season to do the roof...maybe not such a good plan?

Seems the Canadian's are sending a massive cold front our way that aims to break low temp records....nice.

Offline ScottA

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Re: Okanogan 14x24 by a lurker :)
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2009, 04:53:25 PM »
Quote
How far down?

All the way down. Same with the tar paper.