1.5 story cottage questions

Started by bfam5, July 31, 2006, 11:34:50 AM

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bfam5

Hello,
I am new here and am interested in the 1.5 story cottage plans.  I have some questions that I hope some of you can answer.

1) do the plans allow for ductwork for CH/CA?
2) would the plans become useless if one was to platform frame the house?
3) would it be difficult to widen the house by 2 or 4 ft.?
4) is the design appropriate for Kansas weather (High winds)?
5) are the plans simple enough that my wife and kids can build it while I hold my day job?   ;)
6) do these question make me sound like an idiot?    ;D

Thanks for any help your kind enough to give.

Amanda_931

#1
Could the wife and kids build the house?

How are they on heights, how handy are they, how likely to slice fingers or fall off scaffolds?

And are y'all prepared to sub out say the roof.  Probably have to let the pros in on wiring and plumbing (a tip--get people lined up early).

And the biggie there--how motivated are they?

Can y'all work with something on the order of Habitat for Humanity building for a few weeks?  It's a pretty good way to get the skills, figure out how buildings work.

Fair number of families here are building mostly on weekends.  If your day job gives you a weekend.

May not really need central heat, just more covers in the bedrooms, room heat in a bathroom.  Those mini-duct systems for central air would work fine, although they ain't cheap.

My little house in Nashville had a heat pump with the distribution setup part stuck up in the attic (and fairly standard sized storebought attic ventilation jobs on both ends).  Strangely enough when it died I couldn't find anyone to replace it--and one of the people who refused stole a ladder  >:( .  And went to a room AC for the bedroom, and a thermostatically controlled attic fan.  Quite happily.  And two heated rooms in the winter.

Platform frame?  Probably just fine, if I'm understanding you right.  Balloon might be a bit simpler if you just wanted a loft on one end, and it's certainly simpler to understand if you are putting in small kneewalls.

To some extent lengthening or shortening is easy.  More or fewer but not bigger floor joists and rafters.

Widening is a different story.  There your floor joists and rafters will probably need to be beefed up, sometimes to the point of being really expensive.  

I think John's plans are pretty conservative when it comes to sizing those things, so you may have a fair amount of wind capability.  But not much survives a class five storm no matter how big across or what shape it is.


Pala

I'd like to say that doing the roof, pumbing and electric yourself are tasks that you can really save money on by not sub-ing out.  On the other hand, I found that I would have saved very little by hanging the drywall and insulation myself.  We sub-ed those out for not much more than the cost of materials.  The pros do it so fast there's not much labor to charge for.  They did what would have taken me weeks or months to do in just a few days, less than a week.

Yep, roof, plumbing and electric are tough, intricate, unfamilliar tasks.  But you can learn how.

Kaa kaa runs downhill...
Don't touch any live wires...
Find a friend who's not afraid of heights....

;)

bfam5

I apologize for that question about my wife and kids building my house for me.  It was a sad attempt at humor.  It's just that after spending a weekend on a trencher trenching thru limestone for my waterline, the thought of someone else building the house sounded good.  I will rejuvenate though and press on.  

jraabe

#4
RE: Questions about the 20' wide 1.5 story cottage plans

• If you do the beam and deck floor you will need to run duct work in a chase rather than the floor. In the joist floor you could have ductwork. There is no ductwork layout in any plans - that will be done by the local installer.
• You would have to change things structurally to make it wider. It is easy to make longer.
• If you do manufactured trusses you could platform frame the 2nd floor. If you do a ridge beam (not in the plans) you could do cathedral ceilings on the 2nd floor.
• The plans are easily adapted for high wind and earthquake areas by adding hold downs and other extra hardware to the framing and foundation. These are not called out in the plans since most places won't need it and such things are determined locally.
• No building (that you would want to live in) is ever as simple as you might hope. It will take considerable work!  ;) (Which, of course, most of us ultimately get outside help with.)


bfam5

Regarding the beam and deck floor:  Are these beams on 4' oc and the decking (upstairs flooring) visible from the first floor?  I am a little slow on terminology.  Is the beam and deck more economical than joist construction or is it more for aesthetic appeal?

What is a 'chase' ?  is it in the walls or what?


glenn-k

#6
The wife and kid's comment is not that far out of line.  Sherry and daughter are doing a lot of theirs - different plans- and are doing a great job.  I think Johns plans are more simple than the one she is doing - he believes in letting you complicate your plans on your own. :) :-/

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1148264750

bfam5

I had hopes that I could begin tasks on the weekends and evenings with the help of the wife and children (and other friends and family) and then my wife and kids could do fill in work while I slave away at my day job to secure construction funds.  

We are really struggling to settle on a house plan though.  I want to build the 1.5 story cottage at 20' x 35' - 40' just to get something to live in asap and with little or no debt and THEN immediately add an addition.  But the wife keeps thinking it is too small and I think too that she thinks I will be too burned out after phase 1 is done to begin an addition.  She could be right but as I prioritize my principles, I keep thinking that building without debt (at least big debt) is number one principle and luxury is secondary.  HOWEVER, ending up with a house that allows us to be hospitable to friends and family is extremely important.  Also, fairly important is keeping my marriage healthy.  :)  

Maybe this post should have went to a marital counselling or conflict resolution forum.  :-[

glenn-k

#8
It sounds like a good goal but one that could be hard to reach and keep the family together if you are really in a time crunch.  The wife and kids would have to understand building, want to learn and do it also as much as you do.  They would have to be as committed to giving up all their free time and just working on the house as you are.  Even if they start out that way they may lose interest.  You are probably looking at over a year long project doing it part time.

Widening a house a few feet from a set of pre-designed plans is not easily possible.  It changes all timber sizes and loads etc.  Lengthening or shortening is not usually a problem.  Loads and spans remain the same per increment.  Additions with their own foundation can be made - such as add a room to the side.


bfam5

Glenn,
A year to just get it weather proof or liveable? Actually, that timeframe sounds encouraging.  Everyone else is doomer and gloomier than that, but they have not seen the size of the cottage or the plans either.

We have all committed ourselves (or say we have) to doing what it takes.  Even if we have to live in partially finished rooms.  We are not in a real bad time crunch.  We would be happy If in 2 or three years we had a small finished home. At that point the room additions/expansions could be done at a more relaxed pace.

The county where we are building only permits trailer houses for temporary usage.  Permits are issued for 18 months and then extensions are granted on case by case basis.  The zoning lady told me the county is taking action against some folks that have trailer houses in the county and are not showing due diligence with their home construction.

I just need to show significant progress in the first couple years. I believe my older two kids 14 and 17 will embrace involvement to whatever extent their capable of.  (My daughter only requires a pink tool belt so if you know of where one of those could be found I would like to know.)  My youngest son (8) is a different story.  The drummer whose beat he marches to is from a different planet.  I think that even he will come around.  It will a good, challenging experience for all of us.  

glenn-k

Lots of variables there but probably past the weatherproof range going from progress of others here if you have a committed group of family and friends.  Check out the Progress Finally thread and Jimmy Casson thread for examples of what can be done.  

Jimmy_Cason

#11
QuoteGlenn,
 (My daughter only requires a pink tool belt so if you know of where one of those could be found I would like to know.)  

http://www.be-jane.com/JaneStoreNEW.aspx

My wife and I were just talking about this last week. She said she wanted a pink hard hat for the self proclaimed job supervisor position she holds at our building site.





Daddymem

#12
Look how far we have gotten in a few months, similar situation.  We have had friends help here and there but the majority of the days on site are just myself, my father, and my wife; we can't even rely on our kids since they are only 5 and 2, but they help pick the site up.  I've got to admit that I have got a special wife, not all wives would be willing or capable of doing all she has and I cannot comment on your situation as I don't know you.  And I barely knew how to operate the switch on a skilsaw let alone cut wood with one and I'm doing it so can you.  We are building a different type of house with a shorter overall construction time, but the "dry in" part is probably a bit longer than conventional construction so a year should be an easy goal (our bonus time comes from the fact that when FirstDay cottages are "dried in" the whole house is almost done).

And Jimmy...sure those are for your wife.... ;)

glenn-k

#13
Still got all your fingers, Daddymem?-- I was a bit worried about you --- engineer with a skillsaw and all. :-/

Seriously though--- you, Mommymem, friends and family have really been doing great.  I'm proud of you. :)

I think Jimmy wants to fit in with Jonesy and me. ::)


jonseyhay

Do you really think Jimmy's wife is going to let him frolic around that job site in a pink tutu and leotard? And, he's going to have to get a bike so the neighbors can get a decent look at that handscomb rear end. ;D

Doug_Martin

QuoteWe have all committed ourselves (or say we have) to doing what it takes.  Even if we have to live in partially finished rooms.

I'd recommend against moving in with paritally finished rooms, especially in a small house.  I've been living in and renovating a 1300 sf house for the last 3 years.  It has no garage or real storage area and relocating the "tool room" gets _real_ old.   The other big concern is that partial rooms start looking "good 'nuff" after a while and your house ends up looking like a permanent construction project.

bfam5

A business aquaintance who just finished his house told me the same story.  He built his own house and said the one thing he would do different for sure if he did it again was that he would not live in it while working on it.  

Does anyone know if the beam and decking system in the 1.5 story cottage eliminate ceiling finishing?  

Jimmy_Cason

#17
Quote
Does anyone know if the beam and decking system in the 1.5 story cottage eliminate ceiling finishing?  

Check out the pics of Mickys 1.5 story  house
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1134603563/60#60



bfam5

Jimmy C.  

Thanks for the link to the photos.  I like the looks of Mikey's place. I mostly liked the trailer visible through the window and the lawn chairs in the house.  With all that it should be called a castle, not a cottage OR cabin.

Seriously now, that is a fine looking place.   I will show the pics to the boss and see what she thinks.

glenn-k

QuoteDo you really think Jimmy's wife is going to let him frolic around that job site in a pink tutu and leotard? And, he's going to have to get a bike so the neighbors can get a decent look at that handscomb rear end. ;D


Personally, Jonesy, I think our uniforms are pretty unique and that if we don't watch out we are going to have all the guys wanting to dress like us.  Possibly we should start licensing them and make a few bucks.  Do you think we should license the alien biker helmet in place of the traditional hardhat? :)


jmacfarland

I'm also in Kansas and hopefully building a 1.5 story very soon. My wife and I live in Lawrence, but are building out by Ozawkie. As far as wind, unless you have absolutely no trees, and are on the top of a hill, I would think you'll be fine with the plans as is. I'd go with balloon framing over platform framing unless you're planning on doing something differently than what I'm thinking. It's really about the kneewall on the loft floor. You don't want to platform frame the really short walls becuase of the outward pressure they will be supporting.

If you widen the plans, you'll have to run a girder underneath the center of your floor joists and figure out new loads. It will also add some time and expense for materials, but like everyone else has said, lengthening is easy. We're looking into doing a 20x32 cottage with a full basement, giving us a lot of extra room to play with. Also, like a lot of others on the board, we are planning on raising the wall height from 10 to 12 feet to get a higher kneewall and less cramped loft space.  We plan to add a dormer (not sure of gable or shed yet) to the loft area as well, increasing the space even more.

If you haven't gotten the plans yet, I highly recommend them. I do wish the plans contained drawings for different dormers and a full basement (they include slab, post and pier, etc.) but just studying what is provided has been a great help and idea generator for us. Plus--it's just plain fun to think about and see what other people here have done.

Last thing, we're planning on building with ICF's and SIPs. If you're looking to get something up in a hurry, SIPs are your answer. They'll take you a little longer to wire and you have to plan ahead, but you can get the whole house dried-in in a weekend with a crane and a few friends. (Cranes aren't nearly as expensive to rent as you might think) This doesn't include foundation, floors or interior walls, but it's still really quick, and super energy efficient. Might be worth looking at anyway.

Good luck and have fun.

Jeff MacFarland

bfam5

Thanks for the reply, it was encouraging.  My wife is having a hangup with the square footage.  Do you think a 20' x 36' or 40' would look goofy?  I don't think so, especially after we put a shed addition on in the future.  Am I right that the SIPs add some to the over all cost?  Do you know how much?  Trying to decide if they will be worth it. Obviously you think so.  I guess I need to become more educated about them.  

As far as trees and wind go, we have a draw to our west and southwest that is wooded and about 600' away.  The closest trees to the south are in a hedge along a township road about 1000' away.  From the north the trees are about 600' away.  My dad tells me these trees will help but how does one quantify the help or the risk.  I guess I'll show the plans to my builder friend and see what he says.

Amanda_931

sounds like y'all might be in windbreak territory.

There's a fair amount of information--search on windbreak or windbreak sizing

IIRC Ken Kern in either or both of The Owner-Built House or The Owner Built Homestead has a long discussion.

(by the way Charmaine Taylor at dirtcheapbuilder has reprint--straight from the copier--Ken Kern books.)

and a lot of the extension services people have stuff on-line.

North Dakota

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/trees/f1055w.htm

Wisconsin

http://www.cias.wisc.edu/archives/1996/10/01/windbreaks_trees_as_technology_for_protecting_wisconsins_topsoil/index.php

and there a bunch in .pdf files that look pretty interesting.  Is anybody else having computer problems--it's behaving like we're trying to open .pdf files on top of a handful of windows in Windows 95.  The computer people I've ranted to think the Windows updates may be to blame--doesn't seem to be anything else.



glenn-k

#23
I've had a lot of lockups with Microsoft - MSN - Msn Mail lately.  Sometimes have to close the program and restart it- if it will close.  I try to stick with Firefox for less trouble.

Probably having problems getting all that data through the NSA eavesdropping (nice word for spying) computers. :-/

Amanda_931

Echelon strikes again!

It could be that.