Author Topic: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY  (Read 59760 times)

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Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #275 on: June 29, 2017, 10:25:54 AM »
That vanity looks great from here.  What do you reckon you saved over buying new?
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #276 on: June 29, 2017, 03:02:06 PM »
Thanks Adam.


The vanity - it was probably $15 of hard maple for the face frame, another $75 for the plywood. Maple for the doors and drawer fronts should be under $100. A hard maple vanity like that would probably cost over $1000, maybe not including the top. I can also use pine or soft maple, or Ash (really cheap here right now) for the drawer boxes.

The real expense is in the tools, I am going to build all the cabinets, and do all the woodwork, in the house though. It would kill me to have someone else screw some boxes together after building everything else, then have to look at their work when I'm having a beer.

Anyhow,

Dewalt 734 planer $400
Bosch 2 1/4 hp plunge/fixed base router $200
Kreg pocket hole jig (master system) $140
When I start the kitchen, I may really need a jointer $300
Chop saw was my grandfathers, but it's not cutting plumb right now, so I might need one of those. $200?
Random Orbital 5" sander $70, another $40+ in pads easy

I haven't started accumulating router bits yet, but they aren't cheap. I could buy a pre-built router table for around $180, have thought to just put two pieces of melamine coated particle board together, then clamp a straight edge down as the router table though. Hard to say how much that would really save.

In all likelihood I'll buy a dovetail jig, because what's an extra $250 to really take it look up a notch.

I am just using the kobalt contractors table saw, it seems fine for what I need it to do. Finish blades are at least $40-50 a piece.

Anyway, if I build a maple vanity for under $200 in materials, it still takes over $1000 in tools to get there. I will definitely save money by the time I'm done doing cabinets, stairs, trim, etc. And not that we're the type to spend $2000 on a bathroom vanity, but the tools arguably already paid for themselves if we are. I don't think it is worth doing this stuff without the right tools. It would be miserable work instead of enjoyable.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #277 on: July 13, 2017, 01:06:51 PM »
Lots of rain lately, we have started the siding process, first thing is to create jamb, sill and head extensions for all the windows that will be in plane with the vertical furring strips for the rain screen. Roughly 3.5".

I made the jambs and sill out of cedar, after a lot of picking, the sills are almost totally clear. Sills were given a 15 degree slope, the head 5.



Installed to the siding with angles, the head is pine, but received 6" flashing tape. Really, not enough water should ever migrate to that point for it to be necessary, but it was pretty cheap insurance. The insulation will also be held back away from the window flange and angle brackets, so that at some point when the windows are replaced it won't involve any demolition. The trim will also be screwed instead of nailed in this area.

Just as an aside, I don't have anything good to say about Andersen windows or their ignorant representatives. Like many companies, they spend all their money on marketing instead of building a quality product and knowledgeable staff.




We also ordered siding, select grade pine clapboards. We grabbed a sample (common grade with knots - ours will be mostly knot free) to test out stain. From what I've read TWP stain is the best, from top to bottom: no stain, pecan, cedar, california redwood, honeytone. We like the pecan the most.




Offline icanreachit

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #278 on: July 13, 2017, 01:49:50 PM »
Looks great! What will you stuff in that gap between the window boxes and the insulation boards? Just make a removable piece? I like the idea of making them removable for replacement down the line. I am looking at metal siding for a building but it doesn't give you that option.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #279 on: July 13, 2017, 01:55:54 PM »
Thanks, and yep I'm just going to rip strips of scrap foam to slip in there.

Even with metal siding couldn't you still install the trim around the windows so that it could be removed independently of the siding?

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #280 on: July 19, 2017, 05:41:12 PM »
Started putting up the insulation, and the siding got here, which looks awesome.

The bottom of the wall got the treatment recommended in the buildingscience.com deep mass energy retrofit... actually even a little extra, in a prior picture you can see we put on two coats of redgard to connect the foundation to the zip wall. The Remote guide specifies sinking the exterior wall insulation down into the ground, and then protecting it with flashing.. I don't really get that, I think foundation insulation either needs to go in the middle of the concrete or on the inside.

Instead of renting a metal brake we extruded the roll flashing through a template cut out of a piece of scrap wood.



The flashing then got 16" of screen mesh on top of that, and both of them got flashing taped to the wall. Hard to visualize, but once the insulation is on, we will hold the furring strips 1-2" below the insulation, pull the flashing downward to create a downward slope and then screw it in place through the furring. The insect screen will get wrapped around the furring strips to keep any critters out of the rain screen.







The used insulation had a bunch of washers still attached, which are really nice to use for temporarily holding the foam to the wall until the structural screws go through furring into studs.



Siding


Virtually no knots.. the look we want the house to have.

Offline Don_P

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #281 on: July 19, 2017, 07:02:50 PM »
I like to make a stain tray out of boards for the edges, plywood for the bottom and subfloor glue with lots of nails, then caulk the inside joints. It saves a lot of stain, for me at least. I feel the same about that window manufacturer. My last run in went essentially, "we don't make mistakes so it must have been you".

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #282 on: July 20, 2017, 11:00:07 AM »
Don I do like the idea of a tray, you would then pour the stain directly into the wooden trough and not bother lining it with poly or plastic? The wood shouldn't absorb much, I could see it working like that. Also was thinking if the tray had a sloped section above the pool of stain with wooden lathe or something you could sit the board on that to drip off a bit, and then hit the finished side with a brush to finish it off.

I have debated posting more about the windows, I have lots of pictures, I'd end up going off the deep end though. I think the main problem is the miter joints look like a 5 year old made them. None of the reps I have spoken to really understand how the windows are built, so I would have to take the thing apart to really reverse engineer (although these windows don't deserve to have the word engineer associated with them) what exactly is going on. At one point they tried to blame the zip tape, which is hilarious because it is the only modern product I've used that I think is done right, and if Huber was public I'd own their stock.

At the end of the day they count on people immediately trimming everything out so you don't see if there are any issues, 10-20 years later when you pull them out it isn't their problem.

I do mean it, once I have a wood shop I will build my own next time. The only prebuilt product I am impressed with is the wood cookstove. Everything else is just marketing.

Offline icanreachit

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #283 on: July 20, 2017, 04:42:04 PM »
Nathan, looks awesome! Your lower flashing helped me a lot with some details that I was working on.

I'm split between doing small relieves around the windows and having them service-able. I'll probably air on serviceable. I won't be using osb though so it may be tricky to have something for the metal to be screwed into close to the window if I put trim over the studs.

Offline lostgirlfound

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #284 on: July 27, 2017, 09:56:27 AM »
Just wondering if you had a cost breakdown at for this build? It may have already been said and if so can you direct me. This is almost exactly what we want to build.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #285 on: July 29, 2017, 12:06:00 PM »
Hi lostgirl.

This is a summary of our current expenses. My wife actually has done a really good job of keeping track of everything down to the nail. The only thing we didn't do ourselves was site work, the footing for the foundation, and the slab. Everything else is purely a material expense. If you want more detail on certain areas it can be made more granular.

This also does not include tool expenses which I am sure there are several thousand dollars worth.


Offline icanreachit

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #286 on: August 01, 2017, 01:30:23 PM »
Hey Nathan,

Any thought on where to mount the windows without OSB? I will be using letin bracing and just 1/2" foam for a thermal break. I could put the windows under foam but am worried about moisture getting behind the foam.

Thanks! Also, what flooring are you going with for 11k? I'm doing a poly on concrete and 1x8 T&G upstairs for cost savings. No subfloor

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #287 on: August 01, 2017, 04:38:07 PM »
That would make your foam the water resistant barrier (WRB) then? You will tape all the seams, the window needs to be connected to your WRB, so it would make sense to put a flanged window on the outside of the foam. Just from a completely practical standpoint, trying to install 1/2" foam without damaging it would be miserably impossible job (especially without rigid backing sheathing), also if you ever get any amount of wind washing it could tear it apart. Aside from adding shear strength over a triangle brace, plywood or OSB is a really good substrate for air and water control layers in the building assembly. I'm not sure if I said, but I got the 2.75" polyiso insulation for $10 a sheet, used stuff is really economical. It would have probably been $50 a sheet from the lumber yard. Just another thought to be sure to install your 1x8 pine triangular to the joists as that adds a ton of strength.

As for the budget, we definitely are not spending 11k on flooring, some of these numbers are catch-alls where we round up.. a lot. That figure would also include all the interior trim work - windows, potentially crown molding, we are thinking about doing wainscoting downstairs. The upstairs will get hardwood, the downstairs slab is staying as is at least for several years, we really like it so far.

We will probably make a bulk order of Ash - a few thousand feet - to get wholesale pricing. It has crossed my mind to plane and T&G the wood flooring for upstairs myself, we'll see though.

Anyway, with budgeting it is a good idea to round up to the nearest 1000 or 5000 sometimes, that way when you forgot about $500 of screws for your rain screen furring you aren't SOL.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #288 on: August 04, 2017, 05:58:40 AM »
Pretty much done with the insulation and doing the furring strips now, we also picked up the stuff to make a trough to stain the siding.

We are using 5" structural screws to attach the furring into the studs about 1.25-1.5". That's inline with the REMOTE guide, also picked up that shooting the screws in 1" vertical for every 6" horizontal greatly increases mechanical advantage. The spec sheet for the screws said to go in 2" which is insane, I weighed out the materials and each screw is holding at most 9lbs, and any wind event that could rip out one of these screws would snap the siding first. Anyway, I didn't want to go in 2" because that is deep enough to hit electrical.

We are using 1x4 pine for furring, 1x8 at the corners because both the trim and clapboards need to be nailed on. Also decided to use stainless steel siding nails, making up some of that cost by more hand nailing. I am spoiling myself with a titanium head hammer this time, will see if that feels better than a 24oz framing maul.  :D



« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:13:26 AM by NathanS »

Offline azgreg

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #289 on: August 04, 2017, 11:20:58 AM »
Looking good Nathan. What kind of exterior insulation are you using?

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #290 on: August 04, 2017, 11:44:28 AM »
Thanks Greg. It's recycled polyiso off a school roof. The stuff that looks like tar paper is actually a fiberglass facing that is used for gluing flat roofing to it. The insulation itself is also impregnated with fiberglass to improve the fire rating, made it really nasty to work with. Not as bad as batt insulation though.

Offline speedfunk

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #291 on: August 14, 2017, 11:39:54 AM »
your right about that poly iso being nasty to work with!  Nice idea on the corners..i have an ackward void in corner..i like your method better.  Padding the wall out this much does present its challenges lol.

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Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #292 on: August 16, 2017, 04:02:04 PM »
Thanks speedfunk... yes that foam sure does complicate things, I think it was worth it for sure though. Bring on the cold.

Aside from a few odds and ends the furring is done, and we are in full blown staining production mode. We built a trough like Don suggested, works great, going through lots of stain coating both sides but it should be worth it in the long run. The rough side we use a squeegee to remove the stain, smooth side we use brushes because it being fresh planed wood it doesnt absorb too much, and the squeegee takes way too much off. After being in the drying rack a few hours we wipe off the excess with paper towels. Coming out good. I think we will probably use around 20 gallons of stain. Yikes!

The drying rack is just 2x4s with a bunch of spare 16D nails tapped in about 1/2 an inch. Then after drying for a day we are stacking them with stickers.








Offline azgreg

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #293 on: August 16, 2017, 05:50:33 PM »
Can't wait to see how it looks on the house.  ;D

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #294 on: September 04, 2017, 05:49:17 PM »
You and me both, Greg.

We've gotten most of the trim up now, also all the siding except some odds and ends is finished staining. Dipping every single piece in the trough is no small job. Once the majority of the stain is removed, at the end of the day every single piece needs to get toweled off to get rid of any excess/runs.

I precut all the trim pieces to fit the jamb extensions, and it worked out great. Very happy with how it looks so far. We also did a water table at the base of the walls.














Offline dablack

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #295 on: September 05, 2017, 08:57:22 AM »
The trim looks great.  Again, you have a good eye for detail. 

Did you have to do an aerial with your power or could you have gone under ground?  Down here in TX, I don't really have a frost depth so underground is the way to go. 

Offline NathanS

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #296 on: September 13, 2017, 02:44:16 PM »
Thanks Austin. We just ran the line from the road because it was the cheapest thing to do. It was like $430 straight off the pole. I never even tried to estimate how much it would have cost to trench it. I don't think I would have had time to dig the trench myself either, we cut it pretty close getting the house weather tight last year as it was.

We are putting up siding now, it's going well. It's nice to have everything pre-stained, although every cut edge is getting hit with stain right before it goes on the wall so we have 100% coverage. Also I am pretty much not using caulk anywhere except a few absolutely necessary places. The rain screen allows the wall to dry when it gets wet, and the caulk could actually prevent drying. At least that is the side of the issue I've taken, and as with all things involving trades or building there are as many opinions as people. The rain screen for me boils down to building a really expensive barn around your house, it can dry out almost as fast as it gets wet. If you look at barns, except in the splash back area, I see boards wearing through from the friction of rain before they rot from water damage.

I used pocket screws to run furring support strips for trim pieces. I really like the kreg jig.




I need to trim around the mudroom roof to finish the north wall, once I finish working my way around the house to above the first floor windows that is next up. I also need to build the attic vents soon.








Offline azgreg

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #297 on: September 13, 2017, 05:22:49 PM »
That's looking fantastic!  :)

Offline dablack

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #298 on: September 14, 2017, 08:19:23 AM »
yep, that is looking really sharp!

Online Rys

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Re: 20x34 2-story universal in upstate NY
« Reply #299 on: September 17, 2017, 06:14:10 PM »
Looks wonderful!