Author Topic: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin  (Read 43273 times)

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Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2012, 02:25:48 PM »
Alan,

It was a monolithic slab. 12 inches down and 12 inches wide. The DNR didn't want me to dig so we did a floating slab. Why?

Toyotaboy

Offline Alan Gage

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2012, 07:12:17 PM »
Was just curious.

So, 12x12" footings. Are they under the foam? I didn't see any formed above it. It doesn't look like the whole slab is 12" thick. 6"?

Alan

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2012, 06:49:47 AM »
It has 2 inches of foam underneath the slab. The center of the slab is 6 inches thick.

Offline Alan Gage

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2012, 09:56:54 AM »
It has 2 inches of foam underneath the slab. The center of the slab is 6 inches thick.

Where is it 12" thick? From the pictures I couldn't see anywhere it was formed up. Or maybe that just wasn't shown?

Alan

Offline Rensmif

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2012, 11:59:03 AM »
Alan,

It was a monolithic slab. 12 inches down and 12 inches wide. The DNR didn't want me to dig so we did a floating slab. Why?

Toyotaboy

I believe Alan  is concerned (me too) about your slabs longterm stabillity.  The frost line in Wisconsin where you are unless I misread is at least 42 inches.  perhaps you left it out of your pics, or description, but I am curious as to how you addressed that in your foundation.  By the area being wetlands, were you required to at least use gravel under your slab ?  And how are you handling your water and plumbing now that your slab is poured?

interesting build, thanks for sharing with us.

Offline mgramann

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 01:20:33 PM »
I can't speak to their performance in wetlands, but floating slabs can fair pretty well here.  Soil type seems to be the biggest factor in determining their stability, according to the contractors I have spoken with.  If the soil under the slab drains well to below the frost line, I wouldn't think there would be any issues.

My cabin in N.E. Wisconsin is actually built on a floating slab.


Offline Alan Gage

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2012, 05:03:01 PM »
I don't have any problem with footings not going down below the frost line, the foam should take care of that. I just didn't see footings in the pictures and wondered how they did it.

Alan

Offline mgramann

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 06:33:07 AM »
In the case of our slab, and I suspect this one, the concrete is a few inches thicker around the perimeter.  I believe it's called a grade beam.

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 12:26:25 PM »
That is correct. The outside perimeter is 12 inches thick and 12 inches wide. It is called a grade beam. I could not for the life of me remember that term.

Offline Alan Gage

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 01:21:44 PM »
I believe a grade beam is actually a separate footing that's usually more heavily reinforced so that it can span over soft spots or voids. I've always heard the term mono-slab for a slab that's poured at the same time as the thickened footings.

Maybe I'm missing something but I still don't see them in the pictures. Can you point out what I'm missing? Not doubting you, just curious how it was done. Most of the time when I've seen pictures there is fill on top of the foam to within 4 or 6 inches of the top of the forms. Then the thickened footing is dug out around the forms.

Alan

Offline mgramann

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2012, 01:37:35 PM »
Perhaps grade beam isn't technically the right term, but I know it is thrown around often with floating slabs.  A quick google search revealed they are sometimes called monolithic slabs.  Looking at the pictures above, it appears that the the "footing" part isn't obvious, but a gradual transition to the 12" thickness.

This is a more typical application:

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2012, 01:49:27 PM »
Monolithis slab covers that nicely; that's what we call them in NM. That's what we have under our home, 18" deep around the perimeter footing portion. Ours is 27 years old. Back then no insulation was used at all.

The thing that is probably most confusing is how it "works" in a cold climate where the ground can freeze deeper than the depth of the perimeter. I have not bothered to do any research on that. I do know there are ways of using a prescribed amount of dense rigid foam under the slab to make a shallow frost free foundation; different methods for permanently heated and non heated or occasionally heated buildings, I believe.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline duncanshannon

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2012, 08:58:28 AM »
Hey Toyotaboy... We are a few years out from building. I don't think I'll have any problems. There is a ridge mid-lot that slopes down (20 feet?) to two pond areas (one near the front of the 9 acres, the other at the back).

Good luck with your build!
Home: Minneapolis, MN area.  Land: (no cabin yet) Spooner, WI area.  Plan: 20x34 1 1/2 Story. Experience Level: n00b. 
Build Thread: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10784.0

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2012, 06:57:44 PM »
Ducanshannon,

I hope you don't have any wetland issues. They are a nightmare to deal with. If you have any questions when you get further along let me know.

Toyotaboy

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2012, 07:12:58 PM »
Monolithis slab covers that nicely; that's what we call them in NM. That's what we have under our home, 18" deep around the perimeter footing portion. Ours is 27 years old. Back then no insulation was used at all.

The thing that is probably most confusing is how it "works" in a cold climate where the ground can freeze deeper than the depth of the perimeter. I have not bothered to do any research on that. I do know there are ways of using a prescribed amount of dense rigid foam under the slab to make a shallow frost free foundation; different methods for permanently heated and non heated or occasionally heated buildings, I believe.

Thanks for the picture with the post. That is exactly what we did. We have a vapor barrier and 2 inches of foam underneath. The building inspector wanted a us to dig about a foot down and lay foam 2 ft laterally all the way around the perimeter of the foundation then cover it back with dirt. That is to keep the frost away from the  foundation. That is the building code here.
Due to our wetland restrictions I can't do that. So he wants me to dig down two feet vertically and insert the foam along side the slab  and back fill it to keep the frost away.
I'm not so sure I want to do that. I would then be isolating the slab like an island which I would think would make it unstable.  The soil is all clay. I've read that if you dig clay out you can't back fill with it because once it's dug out it expands. Therefore your back fill would never be as solid as it was. If you back fill you are to back fill with regular topsoil.  So I have to talk to the inspector yet about that. The DNR doesn't want me to dig at all.

Toyotaboy

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2012, 07:15:40 PM »
Wetlands are a PITA, aren't they.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2012, 07:40:26 PM »
That is an understatement Mountain Don!

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2012, 07:58:29 PM »
When I talked to the Army Corp agent last fall he told me that when I start building I could not store my building supplies on the ground next to the slab. I said, “What?”. He said, “That would be filling in a wetland and we would have to fine you.” I was dumbfounded. He told me that I need to stage my supplies on the parking pad which is 100 ft away, unless I built in the winter. I guess the ground is frozen enough so the weight of the supplies, don’t compress the wetland soils. He never said this but it is the only thing I can think of as to why. So I opted for a winter building date.

We started our building in January. With the mild winter access to the slab off the road was not an issue. I think we had less than 6 inches of snow on the ground. So we didn’t even need to have it plowed out.



Menards delivery!



I was totally digging the crane delivering the lumber. Very Cool!



One northwoods cabin, some assembly required!



The crawl space walls going up. I worked alongside the amish crew everyday, very tiring. The weather was incredibly warm. We worked several days in just jeans and shirts, in January in Wisconsin! 









I joists being delivered.



I Joists going on top of the crawl space.







The slab is 20x24. The i joists extend 2 ft on the east and west sides to make the living space 24x24 square.



Just a little trimming!

Offline Rensmif

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2012, 06:33:34 AM »
And how are you handling your water and plumbing now that your slab is poured?

interesting build, thanks for sharing with us.

OHhhhhh, I ASSumed you were building directly on top of the slab, my bad, the "slab" is basically a huge footing for your wetland area.   

A pic is worth a thousand words.  I learn something new every time I log in here.  Good luck with the build and please continue to keep us updated.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 09:26:45 AM by Rensmif »

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2012, 05:48:40 PM »
Rensmif- Sorry I somehow missed your earlier post.

We are not allowed to dig a well because we are in a wetland. If I had a water source I would have to put in septic which the DNR won't approve.
So we are doing a composting toilet. I had to get that approved from the zoning guy. The DNR won't even give me a permit for a outhouse.
So I don't need any plumbing through the slab.

As for electric I was not going to do anything. I sort of like the idea of a rustic cabin. I grew up hunting in one in the north woods. I since have decided to wire it and run a generator for now. Eventually I want to install solar but can't afford it right now. I'm still trying to figure out the solar thing.

Toyotaboy

 

Offline Rensmif

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2012, 07:15:43 AM »
Wetlands are a PITA, aren't they.


WOW - I agree
Toyotaboy, thanks for the update

Offline MWAndrus

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2012, 08:46:45 AM »
We had some issues getting permits in Wisconsin as well. We didn't want to have to goto the expense of putting in a septic system, so we wanted to go with a compost system. We found out that we can get a Non-Standard Sanitation Permit through Marinette County. What that means is that we can get approved for a pit-privy, outhouse, or composting toilet. We built a small outhouse to hold our "composting" setup. One of the stipulations is that with a non-standard sanitary permit we are not allowed to run any pipes into or out of our house. They let us put in a well, but any water that we use has to be carried into and out of the house.

We wanted to have a branched drain system to treat the grey water, but we arn't allowed to have pipes in or out of the house, so now the grey water has to be dumped on the surface of the ground untreated. Their laws don't make a lot of sense.

Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2012, 07:54:49 AM »
MWAndrus-

DNR guy wouldn't let me dig an outhouse even though I could get a permit thru the county.

As for the grey water I need to check up and see what I am allowed to do. We will have to port all of our water, which isn't a big deal to me. I will probably do some sort of rain water collection system eventually.


Offline Toyotaboy

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2012, 12:11:57 PM »
I need recommendations.

I want to do a propane stove and propane refrigerator for the cabin.

The refrigerator I was hoping would fit under a counter.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!



Offline MountainDon

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Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2012, 12:24:03 PM »
I don't know of any propane refrigerators that will fit under a counter, other than RV fridges. Those cost about as much as a fridge like the Servel 400.   Try looking for a working used RV fridge. 

We have the Servel and it works fine.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?