KY 24 x 24 lake cabin

Started by dylansdad63, January 20, 2009, 12:09:19 AM

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dylansdad63

i have been visiting this website for sometime now and I just wanted to say thanks to evryone for the posts.  They not only are helpful but they give others hope that they to can accomplish a dream.  I own a small lot on a lake here in KY.  It seems that everything I want to do gets turned down some how.  I keep letting my wife look at some of the posts here an she has finally told me that I can build on the property.  I have no real building experience but I do have patience and seem to pick things up very easily.  I just wanted to get some thoughts from the experienced before I proceed.

I am looking to build a 24 x 24 cabin.  My wife wants a loft.  Does the loft complicate things?  Does the loft make the build that much harder for the novice?

Has anyone had experience with composting toilets?  The lot is capable of having a septic but the septic system will almost cost as much as the cabin.  This is just a weekend retreat so I can't justify putting that kind of money in a septic.  The lot currently has an outhouse which seems to not have been used in 3-5 years.  If you install a composting toilet where does your wast water go.  I spoke with the heath dept. here and they said i couldn't do it.  I am wondering if this is fact or if it is just because i was not very educated about waste water. 

Lastly, is building on a grade much more difficult.  I am looking at a post and pier foundation but the grade where the health dept. told me to build is steep.  Further down the lot is a flat area where and old cabin was but that is where the septic must go according to the health dept.

Any feedback will be helpful.  I am looking to get started in late Feb. early March. 

Thanks

Will


phalynx

We have been looking at KY for a while now.  I can tell you that you cannot have a composting toilet. You must install a septic.  They have been going around the state and forcing those with outhouses to replace them with a septic.  It's kind of a downer actually.  I want an outhouse....  :(

As for the loft, no its quite natural to build.  Basically, just use bigger lumber for your downstairs ceiling joists and you basically have a loft.  With a 24' width, you won't have to have a steep pitch roof to gain a lot of usable headroom upstairs either.  Just remember that if you want a loft on only part of the floor plan and you want a cathedral on the rest, you will need to have some form of horizontal support beams running across the width of your vaulted area to keep your walls from naturally wanting to spread apart due to the force of the roof pushing down and out on them.


MountainDon

They won't even allow a commercially manufactured composter like Sun-Mar? Bummer.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

dylansdad63

But Is It Legal?
Composting toilets have approval from the Public Health Department on only seven states; Iowa,Kentucky, Maine, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Oregon, and Vermont. The health department has a list of requirements the composting toilet must meet to maintain health standards but most of these will be automatically met by buying a commercially made composting toilet rather than making your own and following manufacturers directions carefully. Always check with your city to see if there are any permits or requirements locally,


I found this on the internet.  I know the composting toilet is legal but I don't know how to get around the waste water.  Any ideas?

Thanks for the hint about the loft.  I am still undecided.  I will be going down to the lake in the next couple of weeks so I will start posting pictures soon.

Thanks

phalynx

I called KY today and they said if you have running water, you must have a septic.  Also, you cannot get erlectricity without the septic installation signoff.  That one was kind of funny. Basically, you are going to have a septic before anything. 


MountainDon

That's not that unusual. Depending on the lot it could be possible to locate a house right where the best, least expensive septic installation might be. Septic location would then take precedence.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

prohomesteader

good luck on the journey dylansdad63!

I'm building in KY also:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4952.0

If I had to do it again as a first time builder I would build a 1 story and not do a loft OR two stories but the roof would NOT be 12/12 pitch, OR, you could do the loft just don't do the 12/12 pitch, do something really low pitched for the roof (others can make suggestions), it would be much easier for a first timer (which I still am, not done yet)

oh yeah, and the steep or high roofs are dangerous also, easily the most dangerous stuff I've done yet was the roof.

the foundation, floor, and walls were easy enough with some help to do but the roof was REALLY HARD in comparison imho and the roof is expensive to outource to others, plus you will have a harder time finding helping family and friends to climb way up on the roof to help

the best quote we found in our area (nicholas county) and with our soil was 5,500 for parts and labor for the septic

dylansdad63

Thanks for the heads up phalynx. 

The only thing the electric company will do for me is a temp pole untill I have the septic installed

I was trying to get out of it because the septic will cost roughly 12-15k because of the amount of dirt i need to bring in.

For my posts I am looking to use 6x6 treated wood covered with tar.  This is how one of my neighbors is done.  I also think that I have seen it done on this site.  Is this a good method?  I never plan on selling this place and I would like it to outlast me.  Using this method how long should the posts last?

Thanks for all the help so far.  I can not wait to set started.  I am still thinking about the loft just so the kids have a place to lay there heads.

glenn kangiser

The loft will be no problem as it just goes on top of the ceiling joists.  I think the 12/12 is worth the trouble.  You could extend the sidewalls a bit too for more loft headroom.

Note that the 20 wide by a bit longer would be easier for a first timer.  No bearing interior walls.  Just an idea.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


bayview

Quote from: dylansdad63 on January 20, 2009, 09:51:48 PM
Thanks for the heads up phalynx. 

I was trying to get out of it because the septic will cost roughly 12-15k because of the amount of dirt i need to bring in.


  Our neighbor just put in an aerobic system, here in Texas, for about $6500.00.  Generally about $5,000.00 but the additional cost was from having to dig into rock. . .
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

phalynx

There is a big negative to aerobic systems.  I had one before.  They run multiple pumps all the time.  One big one runs 24/7 and it costs about  $30 a month in electricity alone.

rwanders

#11
I am now finishing the interior of a 24x24 with loft and 12/12 pitch roof. You can see the whole thread under  "1 1/2 story nearing completion in Alaska"  in this forum. https://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5513.0 I have attached one exterior picture----two-decker porch would be nice for a lake view site.

Rwanders lived in Southcentral Alaska since 1967
Now lives in St Augustine, Florida

MountainDon

View? I always thought the second story balcony was so you could get in and out when the snow got to be 10-12 ft deep.

;D
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

rwanders

That too!-------that's why I didn't build any outside stairs to the balcony----we just jump into the snow.
Rwanders lived in Southcentral Alaska since 1967
Now lives in St Augustine, Florida


MountainDon

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

pickngrin

Dylansdad63 - I own property in northwestern North Carolina and ran into similar problems getting an ok for a  composting toilet and electric service.  My county health department wouldn't allow a composting toilet precisely because of the other waste water, or grey water problem.  They told me they made no distinction between grey water and black water - if you had waste water of any sort it had to go into a septic system.  I don't know if KY is any different as far as allowing grey water systems, but you might do a Google search on grey water systems.  I can see there being even more stringent regulations since you're near a lake. 

For electric service I tried to get a camper service permit but found out I had to have a septic system first.  They don't want people dumping waste water holding tanks just anywhere, which I completely understand and agree with, but my camper is an old pop-up with no toilet or waste water tank.  They weren't convinced.  Finally I was able to get temporary service installed after I explained that I needed it to build a small storage building, smaller than 10x12 (which didn't require a permit).  As far as I know the county doesn't have a define "temporary" as any set amount of time, so if I have temporary power for 2-3 years while I'm working on the cabin so be it. 

Interestingly my county does allow outhouses - as long as they're permitted and inspected.  So for now I have an outhouse.  It's permitted, but it's been two months and the inspector still hasn't come out to check it.  I do know it works though  ;) 

Good luck - I know this part of the project can be really frustrating.  You just want to get started on something but it seems like there are so many hurdles to get over and hoops to jump through even before you drive the first nail. 

MountainDon

The problem with gray water in many places is that kitchen water is considered black.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

dylansdad63

I called today and got the okay for temp. electric.  They will turn on my temp. electric once I have started on the foundation.  This weekend I plan on buying the 6x6's and covering them wit tar @ the house.  My wife has already threaten my life if I trash my garage.  Hopefully this is not too mesy.  In the next couple of weeks I plan on getting to the lake to dig the foundation holes.  I will be renting a 2 man auger for this job but finding help hasn't been easy.  I have plenty of help once the framing and roofing comes but no one is jumping up to help with the digging.  I tried to post a picture last night but the file was to big.  I will try to upload using photobucket in the next couple of days. 


MountainDon

Quote from: dylansdad63 on January 22, 2009, 04:28:46 PM
I tried to post a picture last night but the file was to big.  I will try to upload using photobucket in the next couple of days. 


Attachments to messages do not work. Photobucket is much better.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.