Staircase question.

[Jared Drake]

I got inspired by a picture of a square house that was on here the other day. It was by some architect and called something like "Univision" or something. (I know it's not Univision, but it sounded something like that.) So, since I've got John's Little House plans, I'm trying to draw up a simple, small house based on squares that I can build one at a time. So, here's my question. For a staircase that is shaped like a U, with one case being right next to the other, about how wide would a room need to be? I'm going to build a seperate little room for the stairs, so they're not eating up floor space in someone's room. I supposed the stairs would need to be 3' wide, so there's 6 feet. Then there's four 2x12's, so that's 6", right? Plus sheetrock, 1". Is 6'7" right? I'm talking about bare stud to bare stud. I've got my construction textbook, but I thought I'd ask here just to talk a little. I never realized that John's little house plans could be so useful and practical and versatile. Honestly, I never thought anything more than a cabin could be built. My plans right now are a two-story section, that'll be 17' or so high. A living room section, 8'. Kitchen, 10' and bedroom 12'. I'll post a pic soon, once I get the stairs figured out.
Jared

[PEG688]

Slow down J man  

What type style of stair are you thinking about ? A trapped tread like this one :

  I'm workin on this one , well scanning it , I'll post it later


Ok it's later   That process is hard to remember   Scan / email / open to my pictures / put in photo bucket didn't re size this we'll see if it's to big   Crap to big  

This might be better No still to big , I think photo bucket having some slowness
/ issues this weekend I'll resize it later





 Or one like this a more common stair horse with treads over / attached to the stair horse / stringer/ carriage?

 

Note the 1x4 attached to the side it provides space for S/R and or stair skirt boards .

So what style are you working towards ?

Sounds like your calulating the stringer into your math , so not sure which way / why / what your trying to do . So lil more info , ok

[Jared Drake]

First off, I'm attaching a very simple picture of what I want to do. Just cause I like the roofs. Second, I want the stairs to come up half way, have a landing, then turn back 180 degrees to finish the last half to the upstairs room. I want the stairs to be right next to each other, with no space between. Or at least, as little as possible. All I want to do is draw that little bit on my 3DHA picture. Daydreaming is free, so I'm hard at work doing it. Do I make sense about the stairs?
Jared

[glenn kangiser]

I think that is a scissor stair.

[Sassy]

Here's a couple pictures  - are these what you mean?

[PEG688]

No body likes a show off Sassy    You build that??      Really good job , ya that's what I meant to say

 Yes that's a trapped tread look , is that it Jared?

[Sassy]

Why thank you PEG  8-) ...  actually once Glenn said the name scissor stair, I looked it up & found a lot of pictures on one site...  

[PEG688]

Ah sucks Sassy you'll make me blush

The issue is it's not a code- able stair as is the 4" round deal will go between a skirt / apron board or closed riser like the one I built in 1995 , so sez the photo,  covers the gap , so to speak.

Also today around here we have to be 12" OC on the horse's with at leasta 2 by tread or it's off to the engineer to prove that a 2 x12 will in fact span 36" on a trapped stair tread , friggin building dept's , nothing like 100's of years of proof to sway them  

So if thats your stair Jared your math is pretty close or right on.    

[Okie_Bob]

Well, if I can get the pic to load it is exactly what you are seeking...but, only rough, not finished yet.
Hope this helps?
Okie Bob

[Okie_Bob]

I give up, can't figure out how to include pics. I 'attach' the pic but, it just goes away? What am I doing wrong?
If anyone wants the pic, send me a message to bob@testech.com and I'll send it to you.
Okie Bob

[Jared Drake]

Ah sucks Sassy you'll make me blush

The issue is it's not a code- able stair as is the 4" round deal will go between a skirt / apron board or closed riser like the one I built in 1995 , so sez the photo,  covers the gap , so to speak.

Also today around here we have to be 12" OC on the horse's with at leasta 2 by tread or it's off to the engineer to prove that a 2 x12 will in fact span 36" on a trapped stair tread , friggin building dept's , nothing like 100's of years of proof to sway them  

So if thats your stair Jared your math is pretty close or right on.    

That's it! The first picture in Sassy's post. Now, PEG, you're telling me that first staircase won't meet code? Is that right? I don't know as much about construction as some here, so some of the things you say go over my head.
Jared

[PEG688]

#1:     Yes her first stair is nice  but not code compliant.   See the space between the tread ( thing / board you step on ) and the one above or below it.

That space is more than 4" the "test" for stairs is thata 4" round ball (think kids head) can not pass thru. So that stair would need a riser board like the first photo in my post  , or a skirt  / apron board of some type to close that space down so the 4" ball would not pass thru.

The railings appear to meet code far as I can tell.

#2:  Opps covered that in #1

#3: Generally speaking if it's about const. I'm right  

#4: Hey we all have to learn some how. I've been working as a carpenter since 1972 , started as a carpenter helper when I was in 10 grade . And have done it for a living ,( less 8 years give or take a few months in the USN) ever since .
 So I don't intend to talk / type over your head , MTL it happens because it's all sort of 1 st nature to me ( most would say 2 nd nature ) I do try to break it down most times , so it's less complex sounding , but there's only so basic / broken down I can go .

Call it TMI   My workers just say that when I over load there brain with To Much Information.

 Hope this helps some , MTL you'll need to study your book a bit , look up terms I use , some of which are interchangable   as terms from coast to coast , or even crew to crew can mean slightly different things . Hang with us / me we'll try to help.    

[Jared Drake]

I knew you did construction work, so I knew the "talking over my head" bit was my fault not yours. You explained the 4" thing really well. I wouldn't mind putting an "apron" on the stairs at all. I'm just glad I more or less got my math right. See, right now my wife's on sick leave getting half pay so all I can do is plan and plan some more. It's put a squeeze on us financially, and when we're back to full pay I want to start on this house in bits and pieces so if she ever lost her job, we'd have a place to live. I want to have all the details worked out before hand. Thanks PEG!
Jared

[glenn kangiser]

That space is more than 4" the "test" for stairs is thata 4" round ball (think kids head) can not pass thru. So that stair would need a riser board like the first photo in my post  , or a skirt  / apron board of some type to close that space down so the 4" ball would not pass thru.  

So that's why they wrote that code -- to keep us from stuffing our kids heads between the stairs.  What will they think of next?

[PEG688]

That's what they claim. The 4" spacing is so a small kids head will not fit into the space.  

 If it's over 4" a kids head could get stuck and strangle the kid some how. Darn near anything is possible but that's the storey on the 4" spacing , the "why?" part anyway.    

[glenn kangiser]

I'll bet I could get their head through it. :-/

Just kidding - bad joke.  I really like kids -- most of them but it would sure make it easier to know where your kids were at all times -- especially if you had a lot of them--

"Johnnie --- where are you?"   ---  

"Right here on the top step mom--- right above Glenn and Paul and Jonesy and Jimmy and Miedrn."    "Could you open the bars for a bit, Mom?  They're starting to chafe my ears."  That's it --- one on each step.

"In a little bit , Johnnie.  I'm busy doing your laundry right now and fixing your dad's breakfast."

I suppose a good parent would put in automatic waterers. :-/


Wow - all that typing made my coffee cold - but then again - it was that way when I poured it.  Hope it does it's stuff soon.

[bartholomew]

Another possible problem with that stair, depending on your codes and/or the abilities of the people using it, is that the lower handrail deadends into the bottom of the upper stringer. At least where I am, there's supposed to a continuous handrail from top to bottom.

[John Raabe]

Just a reminder for folks still having trouble posting PICS. At the header at the top of every thread - to the right of the Design/Build Forum headline is a link "introduction to using the forum". In the middle of that Intro is a two minute read on how to post PICS. Don't try to attach files, especially big ones right from a camera. They will blow out the thread. Use ImageShack, PhotoBucket or one of the other free posting sites and copy the address they give you between the picture frame icons. ImageShack lets you resize big pictures (800 pixels wide is about right).

Here's the graphic I posted last week:

[glenn kangiser]

Probably not real relevant here but here is 1 set of 8 scissor stairs I am installing in Valencia.  Note that the landings are suspended from the second floor - a bit rough for installation but possibly it is a useful idea for some situations.



I assume that not all of you will want to build them out of steel and concrete. :-/

[PEG688]

What ya gotta do jump over that diagonal brace  

 MTL just a temp brace They look heavy enough, what is that place a nukie plant :-/

[glenn kangiser]

Yeah - the diagonal brace stays -- moment bracing for earthquakes -- right above the area of the big one in LA.  It will be in a wall -- these are warehouses to be leased to different companies.  Probably a couple thousand pounds of steel in each set of stairs.  That ought to support a few 200 lb. people.

[glenn kangiser]

Looking again - it does look a bit funny -- there are 2 sets of stairs - scissors with a 4'x8' landing so you do a 180 on each one - a wall will divide them from each other.

[PEG688]

Ok the landing looks small but the stairs are MTL huge and the landing is what 42"x 42" or so :-/ But I understand now either way, big mothers  

[glenn kangiser]

Yeah - about 4 feet by 4 feet  in front of each stair -- 4' x 8' total landing across.