CountryPlans Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: Pat on September 18, 2010, 07:24:43 AM

Title: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 18, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
I just spent an hour starting this thread and lost it all with a click of the button. So Now I try it again.

Hi I'm Pat Abbe and I have just finished a modified VC in Victor Montana.  I have kept a blog at
http://victormontana.wordpress.com/
but several members have asked if I can post here to be able to answer questions in a more public forum setting.  So I am trying to re create. Anyway if you have any questions and I actually get this post to publish without deleting it go for it.  Baby steps first. Photos later.
9/18/2010

THE BEGINNING

Hi I am Pat Abbe and this is part of the story about my three year adventure in building and/or owning my first house.
(http://victormontana.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/pat3-mt.jpg)

I have been known these past 60 some years as "the renter" and finally decided to find out what everyone has always talked about regarding home ownership. first thing I have learned is that not everything goes according to plan and stuff costs way more than we plan on. Other than that and digging three wells before we got adequate water the journey has been fun. So read on
After I bought the property in Victor MT in 2004 I spent two years researching and discussing what to build. This was before the sustainable building really came into vogue. My original thought was a kit called the Adams from the Wilderness Cabin Company in Canada, but my tastes are simple so I began to look into modifying the Victoria's Cottage from CountryPlans.com. I shelled out the $100.00 to get a set of prints. This was the beginning of a long and winding road that has taken three years to get to 2009. See some videos of the property . http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=N_TLZk4I9MY&feature=related

Like I said I had sort of picked out a couple of designs for a small cabin/house, but nothing definite. As we were not in any big hurry I spent most of 2006 and early 2007 either camping on or walking around the land or picking out designs to build. the Internet is a great source for this kind of information

There were many conversations with my family about what to build or not to build. Brie and Courtney – daughters and Christine – wife had a lot of input. Since we had always camped in tents for the past 16 years one thought was to not do anything but dig a hole for the toilet and enjoy the view. We had already put a driveway in and I was thinking more of some creature comforts plus I had never owned anything except a car so I figured this would be my one chance to own/build a home so I outvoted the three of them and decided that we would build something.

What I didn't realize then was I had opened up the proverbial Pandora's box and "The Girls" had unleashed their true personality as my environmental fascists. Conversations turned to comments like "Well Pat if you are going to build something new it damn well better be environmentally friendly" and "We have to live in this world of global warming and rubbish that your generation has left us with",yada yada yada. Not to say I wouldn't have done this on my own.....eventually, but they sort of sealed the deal.

So thus began my education and search to build a small cabin/home that would leave as small a footprint on the earth as possible. The serious talk began about building responsibly or not building it at all. At least I can honestly say I have gotten some of best input along the way from "The Girls" And the three year quest began.


Okay thats it for now. Someone needs to tell me how to upload photos  from my computer  



Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: MountainDon on September 18, 2010, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: abbea on September 18, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
Okay thats it for now. Someone needs to tell me how to upload photos  from my computer 


Pretty much the same way you posted that one image. The image has to be stored someplace on the internet and then the IMG tag for the image is inserted in the forum message. many use photobucket.com but there are others. There is a tutorial, slightly dated, in the Forum News board.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on September 18, 2010, 10:05:21 AM
Hi Pat:

Welcome to the forum.  w*

You have a fine looking project there.

(https://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/countryplans/vc-MT.jpg)

I grabbed this image from your blog (with Snagit) and then posted it for free on Photobucket and copied the image code into this post.

Here's the tutorial: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3512.0

We'd all love to hear more!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: archimedes on September 18, 2010, 12:51:50 PM
Great job abbea,  it looks great!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 18, 2010, 03:03:19 PM
Thanks John
for the heads up on posted images.  Now I will start adding content and photos

Pat
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: cbc58 on September 18, 2010, 03:38:25 PM
any chance you could post your floorplan?  looks beautiful. 
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on September 18, 2010, 04:21:44 PM
Here's an even easier way to post an image from another site such as your blog.

Copy the image location (usually on the right click menu) and just paste it between the image brackets (the little picture icon on the tool bar).

(http://victormontana.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/mt-house-only-8-2010-11.jpg)

These images can't be resized, cropped or edited... and the link will break if the image location goes away.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Alasdair on September 18, 2010, 04:29:10 PM
 w* and Bravo! A beautiful job!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: freezengirl on September 18, 2010, 09:34:26 PM
Really beautiful home you and the girls built [cool]
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: phalynx on September 18, 2010, 10:42:35 PM
I love the pictures and the home is beautiful.  I would love to see a floor plan.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 19, 2010, 01:59:55 PM
This really stinks.  I just spent another hour writing and uploading and previewing and somehow deleting everything before it is saved.  I guess I will have to learn to save it as I go along.  I am not sure I want to start over so you will get the abbreviated post.  Sorry  but I am getting the hang of it and if I don't become a video for clearing my desk of computer and monitors  there will be progress.

So to start over

In the Beginning  (I just saved that  ...One small step for ......)


Fast forward to May 2009.

We had contracted with a builder and gone over the plans but alas he decide that he couldn't keep to a time schedule because it would interfer with river kayaking and summer hiking. Welcome to the Bitterroot. After some searching I hired Tom Hellem who is the father of Russ Hellem from Energetechs (pronounced En Er Ghetechs) go to http://www.energetechs.com/ (http://www.energetechs.com/)   who is installing the energy systems. Tom is an experienced builder and has moved to sustainable building the past three years so he brings the practical knowledge that we will need as the house is constructed.

But this took time and we didn't break ground until mid July so we are about 2 -1/2 months behind schedule. Everyone seems to agree that we will have it dried in by December and then we can finish the inside either during the winter or in early spring. My neighbors Hap and Bec are taking photos on an almost daily basis

What did I do wrong above on the <a href> </a> ?  It worked before on the one that I deleted. Help.

Here are some photos

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/1-Summer2008.jpg)
Our first Campsite which lasted about 5 years

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/2-summer2008.jpg)
View from our deck before it was our deck


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/3-Summer2008.jpg)
Our first fresh air bathroom.  Really good in sunny weather but a bit challenging in rain and snow

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/4-Summer2009.jpg)
The footings  for the basement and the entry (top left)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/5-Summer2009.jpg)
Lego block construction aka ICF's for the foundation.  Took about a day to create.  Pretty slick


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/6-Summer2009.jpg)
Tubing for the radiant floor in the basement








Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Boatz on September 19, 2010, 03:18:54 PM
Quote from: phalynx on September 18, 2010, 10:42:35 PM
I love the pictures and the home is beautiful.  I would love to see a floor plan.

Your house is beautiful! I am also curious what changes you may have made to the floorplan...
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: altaoaks on September 19, 2010, 03:49:09 PM
 w*abbea, she is a fine looking first home, and with her she should last forever.  your victorias cottage is just perfect, and i would also love to see your floorplan and some interior pics!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 20, 2010, 10:01:08 AM
Here are a couple of links to the final floor plans.  
Hope they give some idea on the mods we did.  

Overall  we stayed pretty true to our original sketches.  Enlarged everything by a few feet. this was partially to accommodate the asymmetrical shape I wanted and still have a living room that was 16'  wide.
We made the ridge lines the same to give a 12/12 pitch. We elongated the master bedroom about 4 feet to fit in a decent size bath. (First time in 60 years I have had two sinks one for me and one for the Mrs. which we comment is the same as dieing and going to heaven. We moved the stove to the opposite wall  which I will explain later.  

http://victormontana.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/floor-plans-1st-final-7-2009.pdf

and

http://victormontana.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/floor-plan-2nd-final-7-2009.pdf

Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on September 20, 2010, 10:59:55 AM
Great story unfolding here!

Yes, I have found too that saving your post as you go and then modifying the copy on-line is a much better way to post. It is too easy to lose a long edit. (I'm not sure why - it can be a particular problem if someone else posts to the same thread while you are editing.)

I love your "grown up" version of the Victoria Cottage ideas.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 20, 2010, 12:58:11 PM
Thanks John,
I like the "grown up" version comment. Yes when it was done I felt grown up.  For a year it seemed like ever day someone was asking me to make a decision on something I had no idea what they were talking about and to boot it would always cost me several thousand dollars each time I made it.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: ScottA on September 20, 2010, 04:16:23 PM
Nice place.  :)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2010, 07:37:12 AM
A Little Background


Okay need to throw in some philosophy and back ground to the actual plans. Once I learned about  and had opportunity to speak with several people involved in the sustainable building world and after the architect Lucas and I spent many hours going over what I and we were trying to accomplish we settled on a path that we would build from.  It was decided to set our goal of a LEED certified home.  Although we never applied for it (way too much money) we did set our benchmark to follow the LEED certification and we are fairly confident that we would have probably gotten a platinum level especially in regards to the energy conservation (easy for me to say)
Instead of using the "terms dejour" like green or sustainable we coined the term of building responsibly. Because if we truly were green we wouldn't have built anything. Enough said.  Thank you girls.  The art of compromise came into play.

Some specific goals were for and R50 roof and R40 in the walls with the HRV achieving an ACH of .5-.7 (we eventually tested out at a.6ACH/50)

Materials would be purchased locally and all the mechanics were local (except for the Wild Hogs and the kitchen – more about them later). Although we weren't perfect at least we thought all choices through before we decided on a path.

We had one interesting deviation and that was with the Simpson doors which we used for all interior doors.  Simpson Doors are a Washington company and after a phone call to confirm, we were assured that all their doors are made in USA. Well much to my surprise when the finisher called to tell me all the doors were stamped Made in China. Trust me there were words between the two of us and I ended up living with the doors, but as you can see they are getting no cred here from me.  Okay continuing with the story
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 21, 2010, 07:39:23 AM
First visit -Sept 18 2009

First I must  digress to the Aspen trees.  My wife Christine (who BTW who actually picked out the location for the cabin 4 years ago has also made it known that the 6 Aspens which are way too close to the construction site are to be considered "Sacred Ground" and advised that anyone who destroyed them it would be their last day on the job site.  It was a focal point all during the year and the source of much conversation and a couple of real close calls (big earth moving machines and one fire that burned through them) but I am happy to report that the Aspens are alive and well as are all of us who worked on the job site.

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/TeenysAspens.jpg)

Well  I finally made it out to the site to see the progress.  Lots has happened since Sept 1.  All the radiant is in and the slabs poured.  We have made a few changes to the framing but with little consequence.  Originally the walls were  2 x 8 plates with staggered 2 x 4  studs to allow an open cavity for the cellulose insulation and eliminate the thermal bridge.  Tom and Lucas decided to change it to 2 x 8 studs and add 1-1/2 of rigid on the outside.  This should accomplish the same or close end result and give a stronger wall.

You can see the first floor framed and a couple of the rough sawn Douglas fir beams.  One of the amazing things is that all the framing lumber and the beams is Doug fir.  Having cut my teeth in house building in the east I haven't seen Doug fir framing in almost 30 years.  It is sort of cool.  On the the flip side to install floor tile in the Bitterroot is anywhere from $8-12 sq ft and I am used to $3 per square as really high priced.  It all balances



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/8a-Sept2009.jpg)
Heres me looking like I know what I am doing

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/10-Sept2009.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/9-Sept2009.jpg)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/8b-Sept2009.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/7-Sept2009.jpg)
Doug fir piles......Sweet


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/11-Sept2009-Brie.jpg)
Here is my daughter, Brie, in the old kitchen and about to announce my first grandchild, Baby Rio, born May 30 2010.  

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/10a-Sept2009.jpg)
Tom used a crane to lift the walls into place.  This is the West wall of the Living room.

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor/8-Sept2009.jpg)
Platform for building walls.  You can just make out the beginnings of Pine Bark Beatle kill who attack the Lodgepole and Ponderosa pines primarily.  It has become a huge problem in the West.  We have pockets of it in the Bitterroots,  but east of us over in Helena and surrounding areas big sections of the forests are all dead. We are constantly cutting down the infected trees and destroying them. You can also see how dangerously close the machinery is parked near the Aspens



Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: UK4X4 on September 21, 2010, 08:46:49 AM

Nice build !


I've just spent the last three days drawing a 20 ft wide T home very similar to what you have already built !



so now I have another huge blog to search through and steal ideas ! and look at how you overcame some of my guessed at problem areas

Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: frazoo on September 21, 2010, 02:22:05 PM
Very Nice!  More proof it doesn't have to have a large footprint to be truly nice!

frazoo
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on September 22, 2010, 12:45:59 PM
1
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: phalynx on September 22, 2010, 01:35:43 PM
2!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: TheWire on September 22, 2010, 10:17:41 PM
3?
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 21, 2010, 02:10:07 PM
Wow time flies when you have to work for a living.
A few more photos to update the progress.  Actually these photos were taken almost exactly one year ago
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_Fje6CaI/AAAAAAAAAGM/IMRuQXOeKDA/s912/9-Sept%202009.JPG)


(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_LhCZB9I/AAAAAAAAAHg/CJSXB5NXymE/12-November%202009.jpg)

The fire
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_b1QoQII/AAAAAAAAAKQ/s53ZznUs1qE/s800/12a-%20October%202009.jpg)

And the Fire Trucks

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_H5Ii6KI/AAAAAAAAAGo/wqIC0fKHv90/23-Novemeber%202009-Fire.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 21, 2010, 02:24:20 PM
Damn I lose more stuff. :( try again.  third time is a charm

Framed and ready for the roof

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_cY5JuAI/AAAAAAAAAKU/WrIxMnSvZFU/s800/12b-%20October%202009.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_cn-cbwI/AAAAAAAAAKY/5zYspcmy7RA/s800/12c-%20October%202009.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_c0QzceI/AAAAAAAAAKc/xsSlPfuWNmY/s800/12d-%20October%202009.jpg)


Roof is on and stone work has begun. Late October 2009

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_K7MLz-I/AAAAAAAAAHQ/DTLJUCZXFzI/14-November%202009.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_Kq8az-I/AAAAAAAAAHM/AO5jJXc2aZc/13-November%202009.jpg)


(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_LxDUwqI/AAAAAAAAAHk/Qa39f9kYe3g/17-November%202009.jpg)


(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_KBmCCeI/AAAAAAAAAHE/Lah6iGz4_uY/s800/22a-Novemeber%202009.jpg)









I am quitting while I'm ahead



Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 21, 2010, 02:43:04 PM
Okay I am on roll.  It only took me two times to do the last one.  Shooting for perfection on this load

Inside photos

Master Bedroom and  Loft
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_IZPjdcI/AAAAAAAAAGw/loJYO4Gxqsc/19-November%202009.jpg)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_Jl4zVgI/AAAAAAAAAG8/ig6JBgGhb7w/s640/19a-%20November%202009.jpg)


Future kitchen and eating nook

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_I_uPiUI/AAAAAAAAAG4/VwvcLHPr7oQ/s800/20-November%202009.jpg)

Lots of wood
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_IRxtGkI/AAAAAAAAAG0/dgGKLO01Dfs/s800/20a-November%202009.jpg)

Living Room from kitchen area
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_IBV9llI/AAAAAAAAAGs/nSV5fwrsX2Q/s800/21a-Novemeber%202009.jpg)


Fast work to hall to Master bedroom
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_NUT1gOI/AAAAAAAAAH0/oteGXe7MOJI/s800/24c-December%202009.jpg)











Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: nathan.principe on October 21, 2010, 02:46:19 PM
I am very envious! thats a nice place you got there :)  I must say I have never seen I Joists used for rafters, we dont worry about snow loads in my neck of the woods.  Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: altaoaks on October 21, 2010, 09:19:50 PM
the more i see of this VC project the more i like the VC.  i am second guessing my thoughts about using the universal 2 story in favor of the VC.  i have one (well, probably lots) of questions, but would you mind breaking down the cost of using your lego building bolcks,  that is really impressive.  i think that having the victoria cottage plan in mind with your breakdown would be very enlightening, for me at least!  thanks abba
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: cabinfever on October 22, 2010, 07:24:24 AM
Looking real good, abbea!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on October 22, 2010, 09:29:55 AM
Very nice project Abbea!

You have made some nice choices.

The Victoria plan is by its exposed beam nature a more complex structure than the 2 story Universal plan. Abbea has done some customizations and adapted the plans to his sloping site.

Good work and thanks for sharing your project with us.

John
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 22, 2010, 03:48:23 PM
Okay moving along with the exterior.  The walls are all insulated with cellulose with a 2" rigid covering and then cement siding. Originally I wanted clapboards and then shingles in the gables, but I also wanted to use Nichiha siding.  so I compromised and went with the shake look completely.  I am really happy that I did.

Some more photos with it mostly sided and winter coming

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_L8AeFAI/AAAAAAAAAHo/I8UHL6T7u-Y/s640/18-November%202009.jpg)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_MjVBv1I/AAAAAAAAAHw/PePk7Q6bRRU/s800/24-December%202009.jpg)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_MQWyAsI/AAAAAAAAAHs/5aHtlrGJpjY/s640/24b-December%202009.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_PNpuhaI/AAAAAAAAAII/mI76xxhRhC4/s912/28-January%202010.JPG)


Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on January 24, 2011, 04:14:47 PM
It's been awhile since I have last updated.  Thanks for everyone and your questions that I received .  I hope I have helped in any way.
Some more photos.  Of course I have forgotten everything I learned on how ti post photos so we shall see

Try Try again   :-\   ???




Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on January 24, 2011, 04:30:40 PM
Such a lovely place...

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MbyKDuRk3kQ/TJo_L8AeFAI/AAAAAAAAAHo/I8UHL6T7u-Y/s640/18-November%202009.jpg

The above URL is the file location of one of the photos which you pasted between the two IMG tags (produced by the little picture frame icon in the edit toolbar.

You can do the same thing by copying and pasting the web location of any new images you want to post. HINT: click the modify button on any of your earlier photo posts to see what the code looks like.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Bishopknight on January 25, 2011, 10:32:55 AM
Beautiful home, thanks for all the pictures and your story!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Sassy on January 25, 2011, 12:19:02 PM
You've done a gorgeous job on the Victoria's Cabin - I love it!  Looking forward to more pictures!  Hopefully you've figured it out or send it to John or Glenn or Don & they can post the pics.  I'd like to see the inside - you know we all like pictures!   c*
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on January 25, 2011, 05:03:31 PM
A couple of test posts again and then i will bring you all up to 2011
Inside photos of some of the steps along the way.
The good news is the house is finished  (mostly) and everything we tried to do has worked. Dec temps averaged 19ºF and we used only 1200 KWH  for all the electricity- heat, lights, refrig, and air exchanger (at .5.4 cents a KWH is good  Thank you CoOp)

During the summer  we would leave the windows open at night and closed during the day and the temp never got above 78 even when it was 95º outside.
In the early fall  when the temperature ran between 32º and 55º  for  2 days we reversed the window thing and the temp never dropped below 72º.  We never turned on the heat.
Because of the air exchanger  we always have fresh air so it does not get stuffy.  So far so good .  Okay I am getting ahead a little bit so here are some more photos


Living Room Ceiling - the ceiling is rough sawn fir which is nailed to the sheathing. the sheathing was painted black  so when the planks shrunk you get an nice uneven effect.  Wait to see latter photos.

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/29-January2010.jpg?t=1295992709)

Master bedroom loft
(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/36-April2010.jpg?t=1295992945)

I am going to post this and then continue



Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on January 25, 2011, 05:26:54 PM


Okay this is working but I need to get them smaller

Lights in the kitchen.

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/37a-April2010kitchen.jpg?t=1295994089)


Beginnings of the kitchen from the stairs
(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/37-April2010.jpg?t=1295994175)


Living Room
(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/37b-April2010living.jpg)


Master Bedroom looking back  towards Living Room
(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/38-April2010.jpg)










Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on January 25, 2011, 05:32:03 PM

Rock and Roll  d*  :D  :-*   ;D :)


Kitchen soon to be sink area  looking east
(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/37f-April2010.jpg)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/32-February2010.jpg)


the beginnings of the stairs
(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/37e-April2010.jpg)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/37c-April2010living-room-fan.jpg)



the mud room

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/35-April2010.jpg)






Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on January 25, 2011, 05:54:59 PM
Fine work and handsome detailing. Going to be a great house.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: altaoaks on January 26, 2011, 09:01:18 PM
abbea, its just beautiful, what a fine home you have built!  i love the photos, and i would still love to see your floor plan!  but you must be so very proud of the way your victorias cottage has blossomed.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: RIjake on January 26, 2011, 09:51:04 PM
I've gotta agree with everyone.....that's a sweet place!

Do you have a rough estimate of your costs to date? 
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Sassy on January 26, 2011, 10:46:20 PM
Very very nice!  Thanks for posting the inside - keep bringing on the pics as you progress!   :)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Hydroman on January 27, 2011, 01:48:21 AM
Real craftsmanship. Shows you do not have to build big to have a beautiful house. Also shows small does not necessarily mean cheap. Looks like you have sunk some serious bucks into this project. Congratulations.
Title: Wild Hogs 2010
Post by: Pat on January 28, 2011, 03:20:09 PM
Nice story about 5 old friends, 8 days, minimal hygiene, one dream kitchen, and a whole lot of cigarettes, beer, and laughter.  Wrote this last year.  Photos on next post
and I got it figured out on the sizing.  Thanks for the comments.  I will try to get the floor plan up I know some of you I have sent it to but I will see about doing a PDF file.  Yes I believe that the McMansion era is past. At least I am hoping so and you can have small and nice.  And yes it is a bit more costly then what I would have done 30 years ago. I got lucky  So here is the story about a kitchen. And since I have been a cabinetmaker the past 30 years this one is state of the art with only one of teh ovens a little too low (but it was a conscious decision as was the lack of wall cabinets






Well we finally did it.

Leif and Frey and Mark and Tab and me aka "Wild Hogs 2010", arrived in Montana safe and sound, albeit with one missed flight and one extra day in Bozeman because of 100 mph winds.  The furniture packed in Florida combined with the kitchen packed in Pennsylvania also made it to Victor and up the mountain in one piece.  Kudos to all who packed and repacked those 11' Wilsonart Solid Surface tops.

With the Penske truck unloaded and cabinets and boxes strewn around the house we began. The schedule for the next 7 days was now set.  Each day "The Hogs" would arise at 6:00am kick start their bodies with cigarettes and coffee until 7:00 and then start working without any food and only more cigarettes until 6:30 pm with the sound of the pop guush of the first of many beers and drinks began.  When questioned about lack of food the answer was always.  "Don't want to lose focus."  Each night we would have a massive feed followed by more drinks until one by one we would crawl off to sleep only to get up the next morning and repeat.  I did notice that some of the children got hungry during the night and a dozen eggs or a package of hotdogs would be missing in the morning.

The Hogs split up with brothers  working with brothers,( Mark and Tab and Frey and Leif) while I offered assistance and answered questions and ran errands and cooked each night.  We became a well oiled machine by the end of our visit to Kelly Ridge in Victor. During the 7 days I witnessed some seemingly impossible field fabrications with rudimentary tools accompanied with some really memorable encounters, none of which included predatory animals.  I certainly have never assembled nor been in the company with a more talented group of craftsmen and artisans in all my 30 years of building and cabinetmaking.

So to the kitchen which is the final chapter to all the kitchens I have made and/or helped design and could be a show piece for the industry and hardware, cabinetry, and accessories included in it

One of the most memorable field change was with the 11' (read 132")  by 42"  peninsula top.  The top, made with Wilsonart Solid Surface and is Greenguard certified,  was 1-1/2" short.  Tab Black spun his magic and with limited tools and assortment of handmade clamps he fastened 15 pieces to the end of the top.  After 5 hours of clamping, routing and sanding (4000 grit)  I challenge anyone to see the seams.  It was truly unbelievable.  If Wilsonart was to give an award for fabrication hands down it should go to Tab.

Other than the usual tight fits scribes the rest of the installation went flawless except for a slight miscalculation for a pipe in the waste cabinet. This is the one cabinet that included the Blum Servo-drive opening feature.  We have re-designed it and I will install it in June.

The kitchen called for no wall cabinets and only drawers in the base cabinets.  All the drawers are the latest Blum version of the TANDEMBOX Intivo with several drawers, especially the Space Corners, using the Design Element and others using the Boxcap.  I chose the black systems with frosted glass to keep with the industrial look of the kitchen and house.  All will be fitted with Blum's ORGA-LINE utensil,  plate holders and food storage.  Next month.

As mentioned there are no wall cabinets only fixed shelving with accent lighting. All the shelves have the latest state of the art Hera LED dimmable lights and are connected to a transformer and a remote control.   17 in all. The handles and knobs are wrought iron from the Berenson Rhapsody series and the one small 8" tall pantry next to the refrigerator is the Scalea series by Fulterer.  Not surprisingly the pantry got the most compliments form the Hogs because of its ease of use, quality of materials and soft close.

The kitchen, although not quite finished, is everything I thought it would be.  I cannot say anything more except thanks to all, Mark and brother Tab, and of course to the companies mentioned above who listened and worked with me with some modifications and who manufacture some of the finest quality products I have ever seen.  Enough said as now it is time to enjoy it.

All the while the brothers Aarnio, Leif and Frey (the boys from Finland) were busy working on closets and loft railings and trying to fix some things that were unfixable. Finally they moved on to installing the outside deck.  If you call installing  Ipe wood planks decking.

Let me be the first to say publicly that it is a dangerous combination when you mix a master stair fabricator and a nuclear engineer to work together.  Often we would look outside to see Frey using his slide rule (I swear we saw it ) to figure out how to nail  the deck or watch Leif and him pointing and planning and  talking about how to get a 30' run square to within a 1/16".  Of course there was always a cigarette included with the discussions. At one point Mark walked outside and commented. "This isn't nuclear science, we are only building a deck, you know what I mean?"  This of course fell on deaf ears.  We all had a good laugh as Mark has been saying this for as long as I have known him.  But with a little last minute help the deck was finished by 7:00 pm the night before we left to go home.

There were many events that took place other than the slow disintegration of all things manners and civil by 5 men alone in the wilderness for 7 days, but a couple stand out. One morning my neighbor Bec George  who walks her dog Otis each morning around 6:30 came over to say hey to the boys and she had a 357 magnum strapped to her hip (compliments from a previous cougar meeting one morning last fall ).  Well the Hogs thought that was just about as good as it gets and comments where "I can just see my wife walking the dog in Ft Lauderdale packing a 357".   Another memorable event was

On Sunday, Mothers Day, we took a ride down through the Bitterroot and over  to the Big Hole Crossing Restaurant in Wisdom MT  for dinner.  Awesome food.  One of the items on the menu was Rocky Mountain Oysters (Domestic Bull testicles, cut thin, lightly breaded and fried....served with cocktail sauce.  Lots of laughter but no-one was brave enough to order them.

And in the Credit Due department:

The Hogs have collectively about 180 years of experience in home construction and cabinet design and fabrication, mostly in New England and Pennsylvania.  I have had businesses with two of these guys and have seen the work from the other two.  In my experience this team was as good as it gets.  That being said the most commented and overall consensus was the best work in the house was by far the finish carpentry.  Everyday someone would comment about the doors being dead-on or about particular difficult joint. But the one that stands out the most was when each and every one of the Hogs realized that the house is not a true post and beam and the rafters are all carefully scribed in.  This realization took anywhere up to 3 days and offered up conversation for the entire trip. So a big kudos and thanks goes to Damian Mast and his team from St Ignatius. We were honored to be able to follow true craftsmanship.

All in all it was a grand time.

We finally parted company and headed out to different parts of the country, but with some serious memories. So here are some photos of the happenings and those involved.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on January 28, 2011, 03:26:06 PM
Photos  of work in progress

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/42-May2010-WHLoadingthePenskeinPA.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/46-May2010-WHTabandhiskitchen.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/47-May2010-WHMarkmakingshelvesinsnow.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/48-May2010-WHKitchenDay3.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/51-May2010-WHKitchen.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/50-May2010-WHKitchenNorth.jpg)




(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/49-May2010-WHKitchenTopafterstrecting.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/53-May2010-WHTabandhiskitchen.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/61-May2010-WHTabPatMark.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/43-May2010-ShitsCreek.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/44-May2010-WHLRLofttoKitchen.jpg) 


The Boys

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/56-May2010-WH1stbeer.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen/58-May2010-WHMarkFreyLeifTab.jpg)





















Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: MountainDon on January 28, 2011, 03:28:37 PM
Wow!  Very nice!!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on January 28, 2011, 03:29:21 PM
Hot dam

All the photos are the same size except one

Next is the kitchen all finished.  Maybe tomorrow.  Don't want to push my luck

Pat
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on January 28, 2011, 04:33:08 PM
Great story!

Great kitchen!

and a great group of support pals. Kudos!
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on February 02, 2011, 01:06:53 PM
The stairs now I can post side by side photos.
I am getting the hang of this
:)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201017.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201016.jpg)


Loft Railings


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201021.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201013.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: altaoaks on February 06, 2011, 03:44:00 PM
abbea, a truely heartfelt congratulations to you and your gang!  i am loving your pics, and they are so inspiring.  your home just keeps getting better and better.  you inspire me.
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: duncanshannon on February 07, 2011, 12:06:30 AM
Gorgeous place!  What did you use for your railings??  (I want to put those in my house!)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on February 08, 2011, 04:30:28 PM
We fabricated the posts and had them powder coated.  The railings are just 3/8"  raw steel cut to length and threaded at each end. We talked about powder coating them also but decided to pricey and left them raw.  I figure a little wax and they would be good.  Plus the spotty rust adds to the over all feel
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on February 08, 2011, 04:58:37 PM
Living Room & Master Bedroom     

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201018.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201019.jpg)

Upstairs Guest room & Master Bedroom     

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201014.jpg)  (https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Victor%20Finished/MT-HouseOnly-8-201020.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: duncanshannon on February 08, 2011, 05:04:55 PM
Cool. Are the horizontal pieces then screwed to the posts?  Can you post a couple detail pics? I'm thinking I want to recreate them. What was the cost for those? Saw one place on the net that created sometimg similar (perhaps a bit fancier) for $250 / foot!!

Also, is that a cork floor in your main level bedroom?
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Jens on March 01, 2011, 01:17:11 AM
looks great!  I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I think you must be a cabinetmaker, a hot rodder, or a watchmaker judging by your attention to detail  :)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 29, 2011, 09:20:37 AM
Its been awhile. I am not sure where the time goes but we have begun to settle into  our little piece of paradise in western Montana. 
summer - fall 2011
Spent the summer cleaning up and modifying the loft a little bit and adding important items like snow guards and gutters. It was another glorious summer  after a really wet and cold and long spring. The wild flowers were as good as anyone can remember. No fires until late in the summer which was a nice break.  Got to watch them across the valley which is the only way to have a forest fire.  Met more neighbors and ran out of well water in early September.  Neighbors all shipped in to help and learned a wonder lesson.  Apparently there is a little reset button on the well pump to the cistern and it only took 10 days of trucking 200 gallons at a time to figure this little ditty out.  So the good news is we did have plenty of water.  I am going to try to update some photos if I can remember how
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 29, 2011, 10:08:20 AM
Okay here is the first trial of new photos.  Like I said we have started to settle in.
My first big victory.
We chose not to get TV and surprisingly you really don't miss it until you go out to a bar or dinner and you become like a moth to light, but we needed to have internet so there was a potential issue being high up on the mountain.
I had a Verizon stick which didn't work too well (maybe Sunday mornings it was okay)  and I needed a better solution because I have to communicate with work.

So Alltel had a deal on unlimited data stick ($60/mnth) and when AT&T took them over it grandfathered in.  I gamble and signed up and when the AT&T 3G took over the signal was there but really weak.  Enter the Wilson Electronics booster. 
First I got a mobile one which worked great to test the concept and then we upgraded to an amplifier and indoor antenna and my internet rocks. To top it all off I can take my stick on the road and get internet when traveling.  I only add this because I am sure I am not alone with this issue. The alternative is expensive local service that are not as fast.   I mostly get 1.5-2.5MB download.

Okay on to some updated photos. 
alot of you have asked for the floor plans and I have some basic PDF's which I will try to upload if it works.  Not sure. 

The lovely lady in one of the photos is my wife Christine aka Teeny who is in charge of making all the knapweed and thistle go away and restore the land back to what it was before we disturbed it. :)

We also have some photos of our resident moose (is it meese)  ??? from last winter.  I need to find them. 
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 29, 2011, 10:10:44 AM
Kelly Ridge Road

Target practice from years gone by

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidgeRdsign2.jpg)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/DSC_4016-1.jpg)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20111.jpg)



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20112.jpg)


First Art

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-201115.jpg)


Master Bedroom and MB Loft

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-201114.jpg)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-201113.jpg)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-201111.jpg)

Main Loft and LR below
We cut the cantilever section back 24" . Big improvement

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-201112.jpg)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-201110.jpg)


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20117.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 29, 2011, 10:41:42 AM
More Living Room and Kitchen


The Lovely Mrs Brocks

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20118.jpg)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20115.jpg)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20113.jpg)

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kelly%20Ridge%202011/KellyRidge-20119.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 29, 2011, 10:52:11 AM
A link to the finished kitchen.



https://s830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen%20Finished/

A collage photo

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen%20Finished/MT-Kitchen-Only-8-20108-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 29, 2011, 11:00:26 AM
John
Is it possible to make like thumb nails  in Photobucket and then post them so that if you click on the photo you get a bigger version
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Sassy on October 29, 2011, 02:09:44 PM
Gorgeous!!!  The kitchen looks like an ideal set-up - beautiful work throughout - I am sure you & your wife are thoroughly enjoying it   :) 

I traversed our 20 acres, pulling up thistle  :P  Also carried a 5 gallon sprayer on my back w/Round-Up the 1st couple years & sprayed the upper part of our property for poison oak & star thistle...  didn't do much good except for give me exercise  d*
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: John Raabe on October 29, 2011, 05:47:24 PM
Abbea:

I went into Photobucket and there is a thing calle sub-albums which wouldn't work for me. However, you might be able to set up a sub-album with the thumbnails that then could be clicked on to view. The thumbnails wouldn't show on the page posting I don't think.

I think the way you are doing it probably looks better and actually works.

Handsome photos of a great project!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Pat on October 31, 2011, 08:32:51 AM

One of the perks is that I am in the business of cabinet hardware and the manufacturers donated most of the products for our kitchen
Blum donated all of the drawer materials including the lift for the door above the refrigerator and the automatic  Servo-drive for the waste drawer (not shown)
Wilsonart gave us the solid surface Gilbraltar for the counter tops.
Hera contributed the 17 LED lights for the shelving
and Berenson gave us all the decorative hardware


(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen%20Finished/MT-Kitchen-Only-8-201013-1.jpg)

All the drawers are the from Tandembox Intivo which is a new product line form Blum.
They are all soft and self closing so when me and the missus have a disagreement  :( because I left the drawer open again and I slam them closed.  No banging  :)
The corner drawers are called Space Corners and is a vast improvement  from the old lazy susan corners. Especially  as we age.  I probably like this feature the best

(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen%20Finished/MT-Kitchen-Only-8-20108-2.jpg)

We chose to only have shelving and no wall cabinets. 
Theory being that we will have less junk
The lighting is from Hera and they are dimable LED's



(https://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz223/abbeap/Kitchen%20Finished/MT-Kitchen-Only-8-201017-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: Kris on November 12, 2011, 11:30:50 AM
your place is really nice!....love the large windows and view.....
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: henderson on November 12, 2011, 09:06:52 PM
Very beatiful place you have. How are the shelveshung in the kitchen?
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: DevilDogSixEight on November 12, 2011, 10:01:24 PM
Well, I had my heart set on the 24' Universal, but after seeing this Victoria's cottage, I think I'd rather build this plan.

It has the master BR on the main floor which I really like.

I have three daughters and the twins want their own room - they've been together for 15 years.  I don't know if they really want their own rooms or not - we'll see.  Regardless, I think I could make the upstairs work out into three bedrooms.  I will have to really look at the plans.  The wife would like about 10' added to the back of it too.

Pat, you've given me some wonderful ideas.

JB
Title: Re: Victoria's Cottage - Western Montana
Post by: lecoq on November 13, 2011, 08:43:49 PM
WOW...simply amazing workmanship!!