Finally bought some land...

Started by Adam Roby, April 08, 2015, 02:28:18 PM

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Adam Roby

I've been looking and saving up for years, and anytime something pops up it disappears before I can get down to it to have a good look.
This is not the idea lot as it was just forested, however on either side there is dense forest so offers some privacy.  In total I purchased 5.9 +/- acres, they will be surveying the lot this week and closing on the 20th.   The lot is pretty square, around 485'x530' in size with a right of way access road on one side.  There is still some foresting going on way in the back along the Canadian border so the road is quite mucky now with all the big trucks driving though but I am told then once it dries a bit, one of the other owners in the far back had a big plow type machine that he uses to maintain the road and should be accessible by car by the summer.  In the meantime I can park on the street and walk back.  It is set back about 1500' from the road, so it is bit of a walk but still somewhat accessible... might be time for a 4x4!  The land has a stream that snakes through the lot, at the current moment it is flowing quite quickly (maybe 8' wide and 2' deep) but I'd assume it is seasonal and may even dry out by the summer.  Still, has some potential.  When I look at Google Satellite there are tons of locals that have build small ponds around the stream... so I figured I would ask the local inspector whom basically said as long as I don't obstruct the flow (as in damming it) then there is not problem.  I have however read plenty of horror stories on here so if that is really something in my future I will do my homework first and get the right permits.  The land all around it dotted with small cabins and a few trailers.  From the satellite view you'd swear they can all see each other but once on the land it is so quiet and peaceful, and feels very private despite the lack of trees.

Still not sure what I will finally do with the property.  I have had several epidural injections into my spine recently to try to help with 3 herniated discs and 3 other flattened discs, all of which have not had much success.  Still, I remain positive, and for now will use my popup trailer until some trees grow back and it starts to look more like a forest again.  (I wonder just how long that'll take... any tips for fast growing trees in upper NY state?)
If I finally get surgery and feel better, then I will be back here with my cabin planning!

Anyways, just wanted to share.  I will stop by the property again on the 20th when we do the closing to take some pictures to share with y'all.  Can you believe after getting all the way out there and turning on the camera it died... (batteries).  Just my luck...




MountainDon

 [cool] Adam.   Best of luck with the back issues too.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Don_P

Congrats! What species did they log? Some will come back from the stump, the lower they are cut the better. These species were also adapted to the site so a good choice to replant. The state dept of forestry probably has a seedling sale going on now. For fast growing Eastern White Pine puts on growth pretty fast and provides good year round visual cover. I'll probably be harvesting and sawing some soon that are about 35 years old but ours do grow about twice as fast as those from the northeast, still once they take hold they will put on about 2' per year up there.

new land owner

Good luck with the land.  Nice to see another member in Upstate NY.

Adam Roby

Thanks for the kind words.  I am quite excited at the thought of being a land owner (besides for my cookie cutter in the city).
I'm not really sure what kind of trees were there already.  I believe the area has a lot of cedar, pine, maple, and birch to name a few.  The company that forested makes pellets for those wood stoves.  Maybe once all the snow melts I will take some pictures of the stumps left behind and some of you might be able to help identify them.  There are mostly thinner stumps (6-8" in diameter) however there are a few sporadic 18-24" stumps as well.  They seem to have cut them pretty close to the ground, hard to tell exactly with the snow cover but I would guestimate between 6-8" from the ground. 

I will outline the area I want to remain clear (mostly the higher and dryer spots) and everything else I will let either nature take over and/or help nature along by planting new trees (same species) just a bit older growth.  My best friend also had 15 acres of land just up the street and told me I could take as many sproutlings as I'd like to help regrow my forest.  I am hoping that I can transplant trees about 5-6' in height and have them take root.  I will try a few first and see what happens.  If all goes well, I might make a tree transplanting party and invite all my nephew's up for a party and make them work!


Don_P

Northern white cedar is a nice tree in lower land, and a wonderful wood, but is very slow growing. Certainly one to encourage for long term. Pine and maple will be the faster grown, there are probably quite a few in the soil seed bank. Your local state forester is a good resource, get them out to take a walk with you. Ours are great about working with smaller landowners.

Adam Roby

I will definitely pay them a visit this summer once all the paperwork is signed and I have my deed.
Been reading up on fast growing trees, and some are insanely fast growers.  The Empress Tree (not a candidate for my area) can grow as much as 10-15' per year!  One possible candidate is the Lombardie Poplar which can grow 8-10' per year, and is suited to my region.  I have to make sure that whatever I choose is not an evasive species, but something that the NY state approves of.  Doing some rough math... if I were to have to plant the entire 6 acres I would need to win the lottery!  I am getting ahead of myself, I will close on the property first and then decide the next course of action... so fun.

Don_P

Paulownia, the empress tree, is very fast growing and a fairly invasive non native. It is also quite valuable to the asian market when it has good form. I'm in the VA blue ridge and am just above the range where they do well, NC piedmont and south they do well. They hang on here but winter kill back to the roots quite often. Lombardy, hybrid poplar, is very fast growing and short lived. It could serve as an initial screen with longer lived species coming along behind it. Ailanthus, tree of heaven, is another very fast grower you might run across. VERY invasive, under no circumstances do you want that one, ever ever. Generally fast growers are short lived. Also hook up with your NRCS folks, natural resource conservation service, part of USDA, there may be some grant money available to help replant, seed, stabilize. For forest farming type plants that would screen you, blueberries, hazelnuts, chestnut... Badgersett Nursery has been doing good breeding work with the last two.

sapcpo

howdy, I have a camp in the southern tier of NY state and have been planting different speices for about 6 years now. The best and fastest growers in the evergreen family have been Norway spruce and white pine, Austrian pine. Now that's for my area. What county are you in? I have bought a lot of seedlings from the  NY state tree nursery called Saratoga Nursery. Look them up online, they have some very good info. Its to late now to order for this year as you probably know. Good luck with the land and future cabin. My cabin is still a dream waiting to happen.     


Adam Roby

Thanks for the recommendations.  This year I will more do research and find out what kind of assistance I can get from the state.  I may also just transplant as much as I can from a neighboring lot.  Idea is to plant the faster growing stuff just to get some cover and then concentrate on more of the long term.  I'd love to get some nut and fruit trees going as well, and some berries bushes... maybe even a "wild" garden of sorts.  Something that does not need constant tending to since there may be weeks or even a month period between visits.

The land is in Clinton Country, just on the border of Franklin County and a stones throw away from the Canadian border. 
Not as pretty as the Adirondacks but price per pound (or acre) much more affordable.  :)

Adam Roby

I have been pondering something and can not seem to make up my mind.

I purchased 6 acres (approximately 488' wide and 535' deep), that is back from the road about 1500' or so with access rights (small dirt road on side).
The closing date has continuously been pushed back due to the surveyors being too busy and rescheduling.
That is a bit frustrating but what it has done is allowed me to save a few extra bucks.

I spoke to the agent and the land right before my land is still for sale, and if I wanted I could buy as many extra acres as money allows.  I am debating between purchasing an extra 1.5 acres (to make 7.5 even), or just keeping the extra money for other expenses such as outhouse, 4-wheeler, tractor, whatever. 

On one hand, that extra money could come in handy as I likely need to rent some equipment and/or tools if I am to work the land this summer (or to pay for trees to plant) for example.  The land is already a decent size and once the forest starts to come back I should have all the privacy I need.
These lines were drawn out to encompass the entire stream, and since there is already a rock wall I did not see a point owning land on the other side of the wall since if I wanted to access it I would need to move the wall or make a hold/access to get through.

On the other hand, the land is selling very cheap... probably even cheaper if I am just adding to my existing contract.  Once all the land has sold then there are no other options I am "stuck" with what I have.  That might be fine but what if I regret not taking more in the future?  Worse case, I leave the land alone for year and save some money to work on it next year.  The access path is also nicer towards the road, and gets muddier as you go back and lower in altitude down the hill.  The extra 1.5 I am considering would be towards the front of the lot so potentially better access.

Has anyone been in a similar situation?  Any regrets either way?
Is 500'x500' a good size for peace and quiet?  I think the actual size if 7.5 acres would be around 488' wide by ~669' deep.
Need some advice, time is limited.  If I do make an offer, and it is accepted I won't have a penny left after closing costs.

BTW:  How much are closing costs?  I know what I own for the land, and I know I have an abstract to pay for... but what about the actual registration and other potential costs I may not know about?


rick91351

Voice of experience - buy it. (1)  Then if you can not get along with the current owner or neighbor that is your own fault... :D....  The alternative is (2) if someone else owns and you can not get along with them - see number one.  I guess it is you own fault as well.  Seriously the bigger - larger buffer the better.   

However there is another side of the coin as I see it 1.5 acres is pretty small from my view point - will someone buy it?   ???  We made a huge mistake not buying 180 acres that got parceled out.  But then I am looking at it from a ranch stand point. 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Adam Roby

The entire parcel is 28 acres being parted out.  I took a 6 acre section in the middle of that.  The road front was sold pretty quick, so there is still around 6 acres in the back (but too wet) and and about 10 acres up front.  The 1.5 was just what I think I can afford to extend the current 6 acre lot.  Not much in the long run, but an extra ~134' of potential buffer from neighbors.  If the wife was not on my back I would make a deal for the entire thing and just pay it off over the next few years but there are too many bills to think about that as an option.

Don_P

You can always sell it later to someone of your choosing if you own it.


midrover170

I bought six acres and about 5.5 are not buildable (very steep slopes). I'm okay with that because those 5.5 acres put me very far from the next house. My other boundaries are USFS land, so I'll hopefully never be watching my neighbors do whatever neighbors do.

If your land already feels secluded, i'd pass on the land. Think long-term though: Does it feel isolated now only because not many (any?) have built in the area? Does the extra 1.5 actually get you further away from this future growth? If you answer "no" to those questions, you'll probably be happy with your 6 acres.

Playing devil's advocate to my own argument: there's only so much dirt in the world. If you can swing it, you probably won't regret it. But think what 1.5 acres means in tools  :D

Good luck.


SouthernTier

Quote from: sapcpo on April 20, 2015, 07:35:43 AM
howdy, I have a camp in the southern tier of NY state and have been planting different speices for about 6 years now. The best and fastest growers in the evergreen family have been Norway spruce and white pine, Austrian pine. Now that's for my area. What county are you in? I have bought a lot of seedlings from the  NY state tree nursery called Saratoga Nursery. Look them up online, they have some very good info. Its to late now to order for this year as you probably know. Good luck with the land and future cabin. My cabin is still a dream waiting to happen.     
Sapcpo: are you sure you are not me?

Also from the southern tier of NY (hence my screen name), and I concur about the Norway Spruce and White Pine.  I planted a ton of them and they grow fast.  I also got mine from the NYSDEC nursery: http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/9395.html

My cabin is also still just a dream waiting to happen, but getting close says my accountant (otherwise known as my wife).

hcamper60

i understand what you are going through.  I recently purchased a half acre boat access only, south facing lot which has a decent slope to it.  Gulp what have i gotten myself into?  This forum has given me the courage to move forward and i just recieved my septic aproval for a septic system that must include an alternate treatment plant AKA Mo Money septic system.  I'm calculating I'll need some highschoolers to carry about 1200 #60 bags of cement all needing to be hand mixed up a steep trail and thats just the begining.  This has to be the most difficult thing i've tried to tackel, or should I find a lot that is easier to build on i keep asking myself? 

Adam Roby

Thanks for posting the link, it gives me a good idea of what might be available and what the cost is.
Averaged 100 trees for $42.  Pretty reasonable.  Would probably do the perimeter of the property with fast growing trees, and then an inner perimeter of more bush/low growing trees/shrubs to give me as much privacy as possible.  I figure I'd need around 800 miscellaneous trees to start, which would be around $350.  Sounds like a heck of a lot of work though...  :)

SouthernTier

Quote from: Adam Roby on May 05, 2015, 06:26:46 PM
I figure I'd need around 800 miscellaneous trees to start, which would be around $350.  Sounds like a heck of a lot of work though...  :)
I'll just say this:  I bought a lot fewer trees years 2-4 of doing this than I did the first year  ;)

Also, they deliver them during peak black fly season.  This is one of the few times you hope it rains when you have a task to do!

Adam Roby

The estimated tree count might go up... I just made an offer for more land.  Figured I only live once... and I can always save more for the toys later on but I would hate to look back and regret at least not trying for more.  Just waiting for the seller to get back to me...

I figure I will transplant as many as I can this year, then whatever that number is I should be able to plant 10x more if I don't have to find them and dig them up first.


Adam Roby

The seller accepted my offer, I have 7.5 acres in total. 
Closing date is set for May 18th unless something is delayed again (surveyors if anything).

Meet with my surgeon on May 20th... gulp.  Might not be doing anything this summer if they open me up... but at least the land will be ready when I am. 

rick91351

Quote from: Adam Roby on May 09, 2015, 08:47:16 AM
The seller accepted my offer, I have 7.5 acres in total. 
Closing date is set for May 18th unless something is delayed again (surveyors if anything).

Meet with my surgeon on May 20th... gulp.  Might not be doing anything this summer if they open me up... but at least the land will be ready when I am. 

This a back thing? 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Adam Roby

Quote from: rick91351 on May 09, 2015, 09:34:42 AM
This a back thing?

Yeah... I have 3 herniated discs in my lower back, and 3 more a little higher that have deteriorated and may herniate soon.  I had 2 foraminal injections under fluoroscope 2 months ago, and 4 facet injections 1 month ago, very little help.  Left leg is 1/2 number, back is always sore, been on Voltaren for 2 1/2 years straight (not supposed to take it for more than 3 months).  Surgery looks like the only option left... if the surgeon agrees.  Scared to have someone work in there, but can't live like this for much longer.

Adam Roby

Damn...

My father always had a dream of building a cabin.  I used to see drawings scattered all over the place with different layouts and ideas he had.  I suppose that's where I got it from.  For as long as I could remember I wanted to build a cabin.  I always wanted to be able to do it with him to fulfill both our dreams.  I finally bought this land, step 1 in our quest.  I was planning on waiting to close on the property this coming Monday, then go get him and bring him up to show him what I got for us.

Got a call from my sister saying she'd been leaving messages for 2 days now and he wasn't calling her back.  So I popped in to see if he was doing alright.  I will spare the details, but I got 911 to get us into his apartment and sure enough he had passed away.  It had probably been a couple days since he had passed...  I guess the coroner will tell us when they have completed their examination.  Never got the chance to share the good news with him.  Never got the chance to help him fulfill his dream as well.  I guess that is always the case... he is survived by his 5 children, and 7 grandchildren.  How am I supposed to explain this to my 5 year old daughter?

He was 74 years old, and was still working full time up to last September when he stopped due to a fall that hurt his back.  That was the beginning of the end.  Since then he started showing a lot of signs of fatigue, swelling in his face and one arm, and not wanting to leave his house.  He was a hearty 165 lbs or so back then, and had dropped to probably 125 lbs since then.  He refused to see a doctor for his ailments, and I respected that to some degree, just wonder if he'd still be with us today had he gone for a checkup. We knew his time with us was limited, but it is always a shock when it happens... especially when it is you that finds him.

R.I.P Dad.  I love you. 

MountainDon

I am so sorry to hear that. I don't know what else to say.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.