loft floor joists

MarkAndDebbie · May 25, 2006, 09:51:04 PM

In some of the pics here I have seen a ledger board cut-in to a 2x6 with metal joist hangers supporting the loft joist. If I had not seen that I would have thought I should rest the joist on a 'jack' stud and nail it into the adjoining 'king' stud. Would that be OK? Is there a benefit one way or the other (less wood the first way)?

PEG688 · May 26, 2006, 10:52:17 PM

Much was said here,

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144724922/0

To comply with current local (in my area )codes and to avoid the engineering that was ALL READY DONE , for the job pictured I'd just plane , on my thickness planer, down a 2x6 to 1 3/8" to get around / comply with the code manhatten cited. Well maybe I'd go to 1 5/16" to be "safe " / PC / try to get along etc . Wouldn't want to upset the apple cart

The king stud / jack idea might work also, a bit more lumber, yes.

If I did it that way I'd MTL add a pressure block at that connection point and would try to make my sheathing land on it to also comply with the code that sez "all edges of sheathing shall be nailed" So I'd get a two for one so to speak on that row of blocking 8-)

I do not know the code # chapter / vs.

But it is written

in the IRC

I wonder how John's plans deal with / show the ledger / joist connection :-/

John , Glenn, anyone ? Not the Senator / astro not

May 28, 2006, 10:05:37 AM

Bump. John how are you showing this detail based on the IRC?

John Raabe · May 28, 2006, 10:48:15 AM

I show basically what PEG did in his diagrams - notching out a 2x6 stud for a full sized ledger.

This leaves a full uncut 4" of stud depth and the cut section is filled back in with the ledger working in compression (assuming you didn't make a big sloppy oversized cut.

Now, we can dance angels on the head of the pin all night but there is very little "hinge action" to be concerned about and the vast majority of the downward forces are handled just as they always are. Remember, this same wall can and historically has been built with 2x4 studs!

This detail has now been built in hundreds of houses all over the U.S. and Canada -- there may have been some inspectors that wanted to argue about it but I haven't heard from them. I also think there are building inspectors who love to find internal inconsistencies in all the details of the code and then turn this into a thesis problem for the builder. Monks have been doing this with the Bible for centuries!

. I would suggest you try and stay out of such entertaining entrapments.

What is missed in this line of thinking is the basic structural overview. And for that the detail PEG did and my plans show is fine. I would be willing to bet that even at the very edge of a lab stress test of a real time wall that it would make very little difference if the ledger, properly installed as shown, were there or not. Far more important would be the sheathing (or lack of it) and its nailing and or gluing. In other words the diaphragm action of the wall would far outweigh any difference in hinge action or bearing capacity. Code, of course, does not require structural sheathing on all wall areas but I have always shown this important component in my plans and consider the resulting synergistic skin to be valuable insurance in a framed house. Full wall sheathing pulls the whole structure of the house together and allows not only greatly increased stiffness, but transfer of loads (load sharing) from one element to another.

The other way to do it, should you feel you need more of the stud depth, is to cut the notch shallower (say 1"), lag it into the stud and then hang the joists from this. This may have finishing issues with the ledger being exposed and could bring up another dance on the head of the pin with other code dogma (but is also solid).

The jack or support stud will also work but seems like a real waste of lumber.

PEG688 · May 28, 2006, 11:11:15 AM

Thanks

So you agree with this , from the training thread

I think you'd agree that the 1/8 " difference is moot , it would not be the 1/8th Inch that would break the camels back , so to speak

I was thinkin I was nuts , sort of

On the Monk issue did you hear the one about the old monk who tells the young Monk I'm going down to check the org. transcripts , after a long time young Monk thinks where is the head Monk he goes down into the labrith to find old Monk crying at the table , repeating "It says Celebrate not CELIBATE"

Jees I crack me up some days

May 28, 2006, 11:13:18 AM

Yep, that would have changed a few thousand years of history!

(thanks for correcting my subtraction)

glenn kangiser · May 28, 2006, 11:50:43 AM

Great joke, PEG. I love to recycle things too.

I think it is also a moot point on the 1/8 inch since we are using nominal size lumber. Next thing you know some of the inspectors with magnifying glasses will want us to go to full dimension lumber.

This reminds me of the new dairy industry ripoff (not full size boards). Now when I go to the store to get my ice cream to keep my beautiful figure, I find that I only get 1.75 quarts that looks almost like the old 1/2 gallon for the new higher price. Not that I feel boards need to be bigger. Where the hell did that come from. :-/

PEG688 · May 28, 2006, 12:06:23 PM

Blame it on the metric system , just like playwood

, I mean plywood it's all skinnied up

, all under the size stated 1/2" really ain't 1/2" etc . It's all metric machining / tooling.

As far as recyling jokes most "new ones" MTL are not for a family forum.

Some of yours are so old they date even me

glenn kangiser · May 28, 2006, 12:18:14 PM

Sorry 'bout the old jokes PEG. I figure some of the youngsters wouldn't have heard them yet, and I can re-tell them to the wife every 10 days or so and still get a good laugh. She doesn't remember jokes well.

My beef with the dairy industry is that they didn't even try to blame it on the metric system -- does't work out that way either. We already subsidize them to keep the prices of dairy products high then the cut product amounts and raise the price. That saved amount will greatly increase profits without having to increase production. Typical corporate rippoff - and the small farmers can't even get into the co-op.

I guess I could get a bowl of ice cream and contemplate loft floor joists. :-/

May 28, 2006, 04:07:00 PM

Thanks PEG and John. No bump needed - it just took me a while because I read the whole thread PEG pointed me to

. I think I'll let-in the ledger.

PEG688 · May 28, 2006, 06:57:04 PM

QuoteThanks PEG and John. No bump needed - it just took me a while because I read the whole thread PEG pointed me to . I think I'll let-in the ledger.

Riveting stuff too

Is that a two "O" to or a one "O"? What ever

I was Bumping John really

hnash53 · May 31, 2006, 03:20:49 PM

I attached my 2x6 ledger board to my wall studs using lag screws. Seems I got that idea from somewhere but don't remember where.

MarkAndDebbie · May 31, 2006, 03:42:00 PM

QuoteI attached my 2x6 ledger board to my wall studs using lag screws. Seems I got that idea from somewhere but don't remember where.

We love your cabin Hal. It looks like you just left the ledger exposed and put up your interior finish around it?

JT(Guest) · May 31, 2006, 05:49:29 PM

Make sure you leave something to fasten your flooring(sub or otherwise) to unless you plan on attaching another ledger to your let in ledger. For me, I'm going to use 4 1/2"" thick material for all loft framing and let it in 1" for both structural and asthetic reasons. I'll be building my own laminated beams from 2x6 SYP and machining them down(might even guess and put a slight arch in the free span members-front loft and catwalk on Victoria- to compensate for deflection) and hopefully the inspector won't ask where they came from.

loft floor joists

hnash53

MarkAndDebbie

JT(Guest)

hnash53