Author Topic: Re: Indigenous Housing  (Read 166300 times)

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Freeholdfarm

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2007, 10:40:19 AM »
This is my favorite thread on this forum -- glad to see that more info. is being added to it!

Kathleen

glenn-k

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2007, 11:14:19 AM »
Glad you enjoy it. Kathleen.  

Sometimes I run out of ideas to research then someone posts something and other things of interest start showing up.

I just found a reference to the Adena people's shelter.
Below is one of their burial mounds.




Quote
A typical Adena house was built in a circular form from 15 to 45 feet in diameter. The walls consisted of paired posts tilted outward, joined to other wood to form a conical-shaped roof. The roof was covered with bark and the walls may have been bark, wickerwork or some combination. They were extensive traders as evidenced by the types of ,material found in the mounds they constructed. Copper from the western Great Lakes region and shells from the Gulf of Mexico, all attest to the range of their economic activity. In addition, the culture also practiced agriculture, hunting and fishing.

For more:

http://www.wvculture.org/sites/gravecreek.html
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 11:23:27 AM by glenn-k »

glenn-k

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2007, 05:28:07 PM »
Found a bit more about the Adena shelter.



Quote
House Traits

    (42) Post-mold patterns drcular, diameter 97 feet or more.

    The fact that Adena house patterns are circular is now well established by the finding of 23 such patterns on 9 sites in Kentucky. Records of earlier investigators give abundant evidence that such patterns have been previously found elsewhere, but they were not recognized as house patterns. These patterns occur in the hard clay subsoil in the old visages, under mounds, and are clearly discernible and unmistakable. The diameters are easily measured. The structures seem to fall into two classes: those circles having a diameter of 97 feet or more in diameter, a total of four, and those having a diameter of 60 feet or less, a total of nineteen. So far none has been found with diameters between these two dimensions. It is suspected that the significance of this division, if it continues to be verified by future excavations, will be found in the fact that the smaller size circles were houses, each of which had a single roof over it, and the larger circles indicate structures no one of which had a single roof over the entire structure because of its excessive diameter. Scattered post-molds in the interior of some of these large cirles suggest that rooms built against the inside of the circle may have had roofs. This would have led a central area without any roof. This area in the center of large circles of ten shows fire action on the structure floor.

    (43) Post-mold patterns circular, diameter 60 feet or less.

    The convenient size dwelling house for Adena seems to have been about 37 feet in diameter, although this dimension varies from 21 to 59.5 feet in houses on different sites. The median diameter is 37 feet and the average is 37 feet. Sixty feet seems to have been about the limit in size which would permit the construction of a roof over all, if indeed they were so large. No roof has ever been found, but its existence is predicated on the discovery of interior post-molds arranged in a regular pattern which might indicate roof supports (Webb and Snow 1945:52-53).
   
More from the source of the above - Roofing is in question in the article.


http://www.gbl.indiana.edu/abstracts/adena/post_structs.html

Start of the topic.  http://www.gbl.indiana.edu/abstracts/adena/foreword.html

We tend to think that life in the United States started mostly after the arrival of the Europeans.  Not so.  Hopefully it won't end there. :-?

glenn-k

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2007, 10:52:37 PM »
I found a very cool story about a bike ride across Malaysia with lots of pictures with captions.  The story is in fairly long chapters with the pictures interspersed throughout.  I just skimmed the story but it was all very interesting.

There are quite a few indigenous house and building pictures along with some cool boat building pix.




Pirogues and a large boat being built on the beach in Belo


A wood plank is bent using the heat from a small fire.

If you have time, check it out.

http://www.terminalia.org/mad/index.htm
Above photos and tour story by Michael Ayers

peg_688

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2007, 11:14:20 PM »
Thats interesting! Talk about something out of nothing :o Jeesh I'm sorry about bitching about the WIC bathroom idea now  ;D

glenn-k

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2007, 11:23:36 PM »
Probably makes you want to give up your shop full of tools and do it with sticks and rocks now, eh? :)

Offline Freeholdfarm

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2007, 09:13:48 PM »
I think the reason I enjoy this thread so much is that when my brothers and I were young, we loved to build 'forts'.  A lot of the Indian shelters resemble some of our 'forts' (though the Indian shelters were mostly better constructed!).  We loved camping, and I've always wished we could have lived in one of our 'forts' for a while!  I'd still like to do it, I guess!  

My favorites were 1. a driftwood 'log cabin' on the beach, just above the high tide line, 2. the top of a cedar stump -- the stump was six or eight feet across (Oregon Coast, old-growth timber), and we had to climb close to eight feet to reach the top of it.  There was huckleberry brush growing around the edge, and the center, the heartwood, had rotted out some, leaving a depression in the middle.  It was really a nice little shelter, needing only a roof.  And 3. another cedar stump, this one completely rotted out in the center, and with a couple of openings in the side that we used for doors.  We smoothed out the floor, and cleaned up the interior walls some -- again, it only needed a roof to make a nice little shelter!  And hardly any work involved!  

Kathleen, who never really grew up, LOL!

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2007, 09:40:22 PM »
Glad you enjoyed it Kathleen.  Note that this thread and a few others have lost a few pages at the beginning.  Seems to have been lost at the Internet host.  

John repaired one already and I assume he will get to the rest of them soon.  

If you see the main title of the thread say Re: (Subject) on page 1, then that one is missing some pages.  There were around 5 with problems.

Check back when fixed to see the rest. :)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 09:41:06 PM by glenn-k »
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Offline John Raabe

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2007, 01:00:38 PM »
Test #2:

I have a text file of an older version of this thread from 2006 which I could rebuild here if I could find the current file... weird >:(!

later that day.... I have found out that the message folder has perhaps 4000 messages in it now and the ftp limits are at 2000 files. That's why it is not showing this file.

Looking at the Yabb forums they are suggesting cleaning out old posts and perhaps placing them in an archive. They don't seem to think anyone should have so many files! >:(

I also have a request in to the ISP to see if they can increase the file limit.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 02:45:40 PM by jraabe »
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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2007, 03:13:12 PM »
Sounds like Yabb needs to get their act together. :(
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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lodestar

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2007, 09:37:26 PM »
I like this pic of a Mandan Earth Lodge circa 1910



Artists rendition of interior in use...



The skeleton:



entrance:



A Mandan Village:



« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 09:41:13 PM by lodestar »

MountainDon

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2007, 09:46:30 PM »
As in the Mandan's of the Dakota Territory??

lodestar

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2007, 10:03:55 PM »
Quote
As in the Mandan's of the Dakota Territory??

What better place to go underground?

They are inspiring to me.

glenn-k

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #88 on: November 13, 2007, 07:12:03 AM »
Underground is the way to go. :)

I wasn't aware of the Mandans.

Their building is much the same as the Yosemite Indians roundhouse which was covered in earth in the old times.

A difference I see is that in Yosemite they have about a 4 foot dugout with drystacked rock walls then the rafter logs go up from there.

Thanks for posting that.

Offline desdawg

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2007, 05:07:45 AM »
I just ran across this site which shows the details for constructing a Navajo hogan:
http://waltonfeed.com/peoples/navajo/hogan.html
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2007, 06:57:57 AM »
Interesting and informative, desdawg.  Thanks

Note that this topic is missing the first 5 or so pages yet.  I think John may be able to restore them.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline John Raabe

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #91 on: December 11, 2007, 10:52:06 AM »
I read an interesting article in the Week on a paleogenetic study of the native populations of the new world. This is a new science made possible with recent gene mapping techniques.

It turns out that all the native inhabitants came from a line of Siberian hunters who walked onto the continent when the last ice age locked up so much water that there was a land bridge across the Bearing Sea between Siberia and Alaska. Apparently they never went back as the two genetic histories diverged at that point 12,000 years ago. This particular genetic marker was found in 27 different native American populations - North, South and Central - and the ancient Siberians. No other populations carry it.

The speculation is that they learned to use boats to go quickly down the coast and established native populations that then started to diverge into the tribes and civilizations of the these different areas.

Interestingly, my land, on Whidbey island in Washington's Puget Sound was under a mile of ice at the time. Wouldn't have been worth a stop right then. :D
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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #92 on: December 11, 2007, 10:55:40 AM »
Interesting that an old fossil is still living there in a solar saltbox, even after all of that ice. hmm  rofl
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline John Raabe

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #93 on: December 11, 2007, 10:56:49 AM »
Here is a link to the earlier starting thread of this topic on the old forum.- http://tinyurl.com/37qgpx. I have added this to the initial post on this thread.

Glenn: My bones have been feeling a bit fossil-like and it has been cold. I don't know how much help a solar heating strategy would be under a mile of ice. :-\
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 11:08:51 AM by John Raabe »
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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2007, 02:41:40 PM »
It turns out that all the native inhabitants came from a line of Siberian hunters who walked onto the continent when the last ice age locked up so much water that there was a land bridge across the Bearing Sea between Siberia and Alaska.
I read a book on the history of civilization's spread several month's ago where I learned the same thing. Darned if I can remember the name or author right now.  ???

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2008, 08:45:18 PM »
I just found a posting on the internet that agrees with Yosemite Indian.  That the Indians of Yosemite were in fact, renegade Piutes, and not the more easy going local Indians west of Yosemite..

http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/yosemite_indians_are_outlaw_piutes.html

Quote
YOSEMITE INDIANS ARE OUTLAW PIUTES

Camp Barbour in 1851 produced the great frontiersman. Major James D. Savage, leader of the Mariposa Battalion, who with Andrew D. Firebaugh, chased outlaw Piute Indians back into Yosemite Valley, which led to its discovery. It is obvious they were not Miwoks and Diggers. They were peaceful, certainly not war-like enough to go out raiding Fort Barbour (later Fort Miller) built with soldiers armed with cap and ball muskets. Also, this is refuted by the testimony of veteran David Williamson to the Pony Express the late Williamson (born at Fort Churchill in the 1860s) whose father was an army officer, was told differently by Johnny Calico, son of Chief Winnemucca. Johnny as a kid in 1860, witnessed White Man’s route up the Truckee River from Lake Pyramid, in the so-called battle of Lake Pyramid which was not a “battle” but a very fast route, so fast as the soldiers could get away on horseback. His father told him that all unruly renegades in the tribe (The Piutes had no jails) had been exiled for generations over the mountains west of the big lake (which was Mono Lake). So there are your tough out-law Yosemite Indians that Savage and Firebaugh chased with their Mariposa Battalion in 1851.
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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2008, 08:47:50 AM »
Our new member from Scotland, Al brought some great info to my attention.  Blackhouses in Scotland.

http://www.dualchas.com/heritage.asp



"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2008, 09:34:53 PM »
Fort ancient, Ohio...before the American Indians we know of.



The village reconstructed.

Quote
Fort Ancient
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    This article is about the Fort Ancient culture, for the National Historic Landmark in Warren County, Ohio, see Fort Ancient (Lebanon, Ohio)

Fort Ancient is a name for a Native American culture that flourished from 1000-1650 among a people who predominantly inhabited land along the Ohio River in areas of southern modern day Ohio, northern Kentucky and western West Virginia. The Fort Ancient culture was once thought to be an expansion of the Mississippian cultures, but is now accepted as an independently developed culture that was descended from the Hopewell culture (100 BCE-CE 500), who were also a Mound Builder people.

The name of the culture originates from the Fort Ancient, Ohio site. Fort Ancient itself is now thought to have been built by the Hopewell, then later occupied by the Fort Ancient culture. The fort is located on a hill above the Little Miami River, close to Lebanon, Ohio. Fort Ancient has earthen walls that are over 3 miles (5 km) long and up to 23 feet (7.5 m) high. The hilltop enclosure surrounds a plot of 100 acres (0.4 km˛). Despite its name, most archaeologists do not believe that Fort Ancient was used primarily as a fortress by either the Hopewell or the Fort Ancient -- rather, it was a ceremonial location.

Fort Ancient settlements lacked political centralization and elite social structures. Settlements were composed of circular and/or rectangular homes situated around an open plaza. The arrangement of buildings in Fort Ancient settlements is thought to have served as a sort of solar calendar, marking the positions of the solstices and other significant dates. Settlements were rarely permanent, usually being shifted to a new location after one or two generations when the resources surrounding the old village were exhausted.

The Fort Ancient people are noted for their earthen structures, forts, triangular arrow points and pentagonal flint knives. The Fort Ancient also created small burial mounds for the dead. The Fort Ancient people may have built the largest effigy mound in the United States, Serpent Mound.[citation needed]

The Fort Ancient were primarily a farming and hunting people. Their diet was composed mainly of the three sisters -- maize, squash, and beans -- supplemented with hunting and fishing in nearby forests and rivers.

Uncertainty surrounds the eventual fate of the Fort Ancient people. Most likely their society, like the Mississippian culture to the south, was severely disrupted by waves of epidemics from the very first Spanish explorers in the 16th century. There is a gap in the archaeological record between the most recent Fort Ancient sites and the oldest sites of the Shawnee, who occupied the area at the time of later European (French and English) explorers. However, it is generally accepted that similarities in material culture, art, mythology, and Shawnee oral history linking them to the Fort Ancients can be used to establish the shift of Fort Ancient society into historical Shawnee society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ancient

I learned of this from a free E-Book from Mobi-pocket -- works on your computer or PDA/Blackberry etc.

MONTREAL: GAZETTE PRINTING COMPANY. April, 1886.  MOUND-BUILDERS By Rev. William J. Smyth, M.A., B.Sc., Ph.D.

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/HomePage/default.asp?Language=EN

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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2008, 11:26:29 PM »
I talked to a local Native American who works in the Park yesterday and he agreed that the Paiutes were there in Yosemite, but that they have traced families from 7 different tribes that were there including the Paiutes, so in fairness I have to give equal time to the other side of the story as I told him I would.
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Offline considerations

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Re: Indigenous Housing
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2008, 09:39:18 AM »
I'm not sure about copyright issues, so here is a link.

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/wastate&CISOPTR=102&CISOBOX=1&REC=7

John Raabe and PEG, you may get a kick out of this one.