Fold-Out Cabin Challenge for Tiny Sloped Lot

Started by Joe70152, August 14, 2006, 02:24:59 PM

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Joe70152

Great mountainview :) lot only measures about 63'x75' on a approx. 25 percent sloping site  :-[ in Colorado.  Campers/trailers, etc., are not an option and of no interest to me anyway.  However, no building permit is required for 10'x12' structures.  Instead of a summer-only tent, I'd like to have a cabin that opens to larger size for mountain visits -- can't find a plan for this notion  :-/ and wonder if this has ever been done. Okay folks, welcome to my Twilight Zone :o.  Here goes:  

I envision conventionally wood-framed, metal sheathed shed-roof for central/core structure on a pier foundation.  This core structure will store the roof, floor and walls of each of three or  four small 9x10-foot one-room wings when cabin is folded up and not in use (most of the year).    Wing rooms fold out from the main structure: first, shed-roofs lift up and attach to support legs (which are actually multiple 2x stock nailed L-shaped to act as strong corners, avoid bowing) which bolt to solo piers that satelite the main building  ( these piers wait fixed in the ground on the lot year round to support the wing rooms when they are folded out), then floors fold down to base of legs and piers, finally, walls fold up or out from floor or main structure to meet roof.  The folding action is achieved with multiple hinge hardware.

Weight vs needed strength is the obvious critical issue. :-? The main core storage building has 2x12 rafters, but the wing roofs must be light for lifting.   An engineering book from the university library shows short and light weight floor and roof trusses being made of 2x4 (or 1x4!) stock for top and bottom chords with 12x12 inch gussets of half-inch plywood, each glued and screwed/nailed on alternating sides of the top and bottom truss chords with up to 24-inch spacing between each gusset. Wings' roof trusses are joined by 1x2 or 1x4 purlins at minimal spacing to support interlocking foam-backed vinyl soffit material that serves as roof sheathing if metal proves too heavy here.  

To diminsh floor truss weight further, ply sheathing may drag out and screw in after floor frame is folded down and walls might be drug to sides and bolted onto corners and main sturcture, instead of folding out/up from floors and or main structure.  Walls of wing rooms bear no weight, exterior of wall is foam-backed vinyl siding (the fake log look) over plastic vapor barrior.  Studs are 32-inch o.c., supporting fiberglass batt insulation and these portable walls are kept square by diagonal  1x4 bracing on the interior which is applied over interior wall surface of luan sheathing.

You may think I'm nuts.  ;D You gotta know I'm broke.  :'(  But, it takes guts to let all you right-thinking people see how nuts I am  ;) -- I really want to try this and am going for a full-sized mock-up in my back yard, but, again, if there's anything like this anyone knows of, please let me hear it.


CREATIVE1

I actually saw a house along these lines in a mini house book at Borders.  The house either closed into a square or opened out, though I don't know how.  It went from a square to a long rectangle--seems you could build in some expandable sections, even with canvas.


glenn-k

I think that if you can think it you can do it. :-/

Scratch out a few sketches on paper or draw it up good to see if you can think of any problems with it.

Also -- I think it was PEG who said--[highlight] think like water[/highlight] just in case there are any issues with leakage,

Amanda_931

Sunset magazine has had its name on a bunch of vacation house books.  The current one is mostly stock plans--some pretty interesting, but....

The one from back in the late 60's had a place remarkably like that.  With, since it was mostly for summer use, screens for the outer walls.

Maybe not so good for your tiny lot, which presumably has neighbors on all possible sides.

One of the Stiles' books--I can never remember which one, has a tiny almost-triangular treehouse that, IIRC, part of the roof folds down, and the corresponding part of the floor folds up (not, in this case, the framing) for security.  My treehouse was sort of based on that one, but we didn't end up folding "porch" area.

I wonder if you could frame your roof above the roofing, suspend that somehow--at a nice slope, lower it to make the place 10x12.

Core built into the ground--expandable part above?

CREATIVE1

So--if you can build a 10' x 12' without permits, can you build 2 or three on a multistep platform?  Number 14 house in Alex Wade's 30 Energy Efficient Houses You Can Build--one 8' x12' and one 8' x 8', for example.  I'll try to scan it for you if this is an option.


mark_chenail

Yes it seems to me that it would be easier to build several 10x12 units terraced down the slope on seperate platforms or build one 10x12 unit with multiple levels, balconies and lofts each level linked to the slope with a bridge of some sort. Like one of those roman seige towers with the drop down bridges. It wouldnt be a house for the elderly or infirm but kids would love it and it would be great aerobic exercise. ;)

tjm73

Interesting idea.

I gotta ask though will this sturcture have a food prep/storage area? What about a bathroom?

I like the idea above of building a couple small buildings. It's simpler and likely cheaper. I'd use that technique to build a couple wholly seperate but closely placed 10x12 (or smaller) buildings. One for food prep/storage/bathing (keep all the water related things central to that one building), one for social gathering and occasional guest sleeping, and one or two dedicated for sleeping. Then I'd link them with paths cut into the hillside. Just my ideas..... 8-)

Sassy

#7
Amanda, you've mentioned your "tree house" - could you post a picture of it?   Do you still use it?  Or are you in the process of building it?  I can't remember all the details you've written about.   I love tree houses, have looked at all the links that have been posted here & elsewhere.   How is it built?  What size, etc?  Thanks.

PS  I also like the dogtrot designs - Down in Mexico so many of the homes are built around a courtyard.  Seems like a nice way to bring the garden & outside into the living space, although there is usually no roof over it.  Most of the rooms open up to a courtyard with porticos/palazzos (porches?) all around the perimeter.  Seems like you could do the same with a dogtrot design - it would have a roof over it, but as John said, you could make it a 4 season great room & possibly have a courtyard look to it - could be just a small area to relax in or large with fountain & lots of plants.   :)  

(sorry, I got off-topic on this thread  :-/)

tjm73

Have you thought about what kind of mess you could face if you construct this building and use canvas walls if you are forced to close it up wet?

Not trying to discourage you, but it's some thing to think about. My father had to put his awning away wet on his motorhome once and even opening it to dry and air it out a few days later it had a nasty case of mildew starting already.


CREATIVE1

#9
Back to the more than one house idea:  the plans I mentioned are a custom design by David Howard (First Day Cottage architect), with two separate living spaces for parents and children.  The parents house is 8 x 12, 2 stories high, the childrens 8 x 8 three stories high."The house actually has four different levels.  The two small houses face each other across a small platform and make a striking complex."

They are small enough to be prefabricated and transported by truck.  And yes, there is a kitchen and bath, all within 336 square feet for both houses.  The main living room is expanded by a skylighted bumpout (about 7' x 11'total), and there is even room for a woodstove.  There is a "living room" in each cabin.  Sleeping lofts are reached by ladder, and sleep 6.  Cool!

Amanda_931

Yep, treehouse is still in use.  I cut the ondura roofing away from one of the trees the other day--one of the reasons I'm glad I used it there, might anywhere else unless weight and not slicing yourself all the time when you were working on it  were important.  

It's pretty pleasant up there.  Good place to do a set of exercises I do, or sit and read.

I have put at least one picture up there--of the siding.  Might be a good idea to make a picture of the interior and put it up, though.


tjm73

QuoteBack to the more than one house idea:  the plans I mentioned are a custom design by David Howard (First Day Cottage architect), with two separate living spaces for parents and children.  The parents house is 8 x 12, 2 stories high, the childrens 8 x 8 three stories high."The house actually has four different levels.  The two small houses face each other across a small platform and make a striking complex."

They are small enough to be prefabricated and transported by truck.  And yes, there is a kitchen and bath, all within 336 square feet for both houses.  The main living room is expanded by a skylighted bumpout (about 7' x 11'total), and there is even room for a woodstove.  There is a "living room" in each cabin.  Sleeping lofts are reached by ladder, and sleep 6.  Cool!

I'd love to see pics of this...... :)

CREATIVE1

#12
HERE WE GO.  I HAVE PLANS TOO, AND CAN POST LATER.  FROM 30 ENERGY EFFICIENT HOUSES YOU CAN BUILD, BY ALEX WADE AND NEAL EWENSTEIN, PUBLISHED IN 1977.

mark_chenail

In the original post:

"However, no building permit is required for 10'x12' structures."

      This would seem to imply, as many of us have assumed, that this would permit multiple structures as long as none of them were bigger than 10x12.
BUT knowing zoning law thinking, isnt it more likely that they restrict this to ONE 10x12 structure per lot  and that the intent is that  the structure can not excede 120 sqft total.   Its a fine legal point, but it makes a great deal of difference if your intent is to avoid the permitting process.    I cant imagine any zoning/building board being too thrilled by the idea of 6 or 7 10x12 huts on a 63x75 foot lot.   Seems like a long meeting with the zoning board just waiting to happen.   :-? ::)


Joe70152

This lot's zoning is "Forrestry and Open" which in Colorado includes "resort cabins" -- I think  that F&O cabin notion originally included multiple small units as several of you describe, but that F&O law is arguably superseded by more recent state-wide law requiring each and every building used as a dwelling, regardless of duration of occupancy, must have its own water and septic tank/field on the land.  The F&O zoning language also includes uses such as camping, various outdoor recreational activities and the "buildings/ structures to support those activities," which arguably incudes storage buildings of a 10x12 size holding the parts to temporary camper cabin such as the one I'm pondering.  Multiple units won't escape the ire of the county, the neighbors, etc.   Houses (some over 2000 sq ft)on the hill that pre-date the septic/well requirements often have multiple holding tanks for fresh water and sewerage since the lots are too small and the landowners' budgets too lean for the well/septic approach now mandated by the state.  Several 10x12s have appeared since the new well/septic law without a fuss from the county.  Sewerage and kitchen works are accomplished by portable systems such as are found in campers trailers.  If designed to look like a cabin instead of a trailer (as found elsewhere in our Forums here at CountryPlans),  I wonder if the self-built camper trailer on wheels may be the best and cheapest way to go to avoid the fortune a well and septic field costs-- especially when I consider the prospect of folding up my wierd little fold-up cabin's parts wet and later contending with the smell and look of mildew on a subsequent visit.  I can't enjoy camping out of a tent or the appearance of a conventional trailer on this pedestal site, but the cabin on wheels may work without permitting since the F&O zoning seems to include it and the 25 percent slope can be graded to accommodate a trailer's small footprint.  Requesting an electrical hookup on the lot might be the test.   Nevertheless, I'm fascinated by all that you folks have said and intend to followup by tracking down some of the publications/books you've mentioned.   Small dwellings fascinate me now.   Thanks.

Joe70152

Oh, Mark, I'm sure you are right -- the no-permit-needed 10x12 storage building is for one unit per lot only.

tjm73

#16
If you are gonna be looking to get electric hooked up at your lot and you will only be using it occasionally, I'd think about a quality small generator. Why pay a utility company for a hook up you only use occasionally?

In a camping kind of retreat you won't use nearly as much power as you would at home. You can build a realitivly inexpensive, off grid, stand alone power system that should more than meet your needs without too much fuss.

You could build the electric and heating system to run on propane and then take a fresh tank or two with you when you go to the retreat. You can buy or convert the generator to run on the propane. And with propane you can pirate a propane oven, range and refrigerator out of an old "worthless" RV or camping trailer since they almost always run on propane when stationary. This has been discussed on the board before.

tjm73

#17
Ohhhhh!!!  :o

I just got an idea..... what about a single rigid slide out section like the fancy RV's have now?

Also can these 10x12 structures be purpose built for habitation (all be it occasional)?

tjm73

QuoteHERE WE GO.  I HAVE PLANS TOO, AND CAN POST LATER.  FROM 30 ENERGY EFFICIENT HOUSES YOU CAN BUILD, BY ALEX WADE AND NEAL EWENSTEIN, PUBLISHED IN 1977.

Very interesting. Would like to see those plans just out of curiosity on how the interior layout is done.

glenn-k

#19
I don't think we can get away with posting copyrighted plans without approval of the owner - possibly you can find a link online - not sure how long plan copyrights last - maybe John would know.

Possibly you could draw up a very similar plan with 3DHA yourself and post it  to keep things legal.


tjm73

#20
QuoteI don't think we can get away with posting copyrighted plans without approval of the owner - possibly you can find a link online - not sure how long plan copyrights last - maybe John would know.

Possibly you could draw up a very similar plan with 3DHA yourself and post it  to keep things legal.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered "fair," such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

2. the nature of the copyrighted work;

3. amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The distinction between "fair use" and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
"

I interprate this as such....

As long as we are commenting, critisizing, researching, educating with this small part of the work as a whole, and not using it to garner profit, we can use it without permission.

jraabe

#21
Unpublished works created before 1978 that were published after 1977 but before 2003 = (copyright term) Life of the author + 70 years or 31 December 2047, whichever is greater

More here: http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm

In general I think we could show simple floorplans from a publication and comment on them. If we are taking full working drawing plans we will need to get the author/architects permission to share (as we did with the Bolt Together House plans)

CREATIVE1

#22
Thanks, John.  I was wondering about this too.  In this case I only have simple outlines on graph paper, and a book published in 1977, so I guess we're O.K.  Certainly don't want to step on any toes, especially those of for-the-people architects.

Amanda_931

David Howard is pretty reachable.

Alex Wade is, IIRC, not.  Unless you can channel him to the satisfaction of his publishers.  Permission from both might be needed for those particular plans.

The roughly 120 feet in the fold down (no particular problems with water because they didn't fold against themselves) house included kitchen, bathroom, and storage.  All the expensive parts.  Seems like the kitchen was kind of like the ones in the Kuffel Creek trailer kitchens--the roof went up, you had your kitchen in front of you, you worked under the was-floor-now-awning.

With bedrooms, after the roof went up, the beds could fold out of the wall.  Screen could be rolled loosely enough not to attract too much mold and moss--or taken to the nearest car-wash.





CREATIVE1

Here are the floor plans, FYI