Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

Started by ajbremer, May 09, 2011, 04:01:01 AM

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ajbremer

#200
Friday Morning - November 25th, 2011

Hi CjAl - happy holidays. About those header hangers, yes they do eliminate the need for a support stud under them 'when you are allowed to use them'. From what I've read so far, there are some parameters. I guess, under certain conditions, that you may not be able to use them if you exceed their design load.

This all leads me to a question I've been asking myself lately. Is insulation is a better insulator than wood? From what I've been reading, yes, insulation is a better insulator than wood. So if a builder used a lot of header hangers, then that would leave room for a lot more insulation and structural integrity is still in place.

Here are some good reads about the header hangers and the code:

http://resourcecenter.pnl.gov/cocoon/morf/ResourceCenter/article/126

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HH.asp

Look at this 'Advanced Framing' Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef24-Dk_f5o
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

TheWire

Prior to sheeting the obvious alignment to do is square the entire wall.  However, once the wall is squared and braced, make sure you check each window & door opening for correct alignment.  It won't go out of square as much as it might shift horizontally because of warps in the studs on each side of the window opening.


astidham

"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice"
— Henry Ford

ajbremer

#203
Sunday Night - November 27th, 2011

Thanks for the comment astidham.

Ok, I got my first wall up today with the help of my son, son-in-law, me, and 2 neighbors. I've got it braced and everything but that's it. I guess I'll square and plumb it when another wall joins it. It is so nice to look out there now and see a wall standing.



Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

CjAl



ajbremer

#205
Hi CjAl,

No, those are 10' walls - for sure! I know why you ask though. I took another look at the pic where my wife is standing at the wall and she looks really small near it. She is only a little over 5' and the walls look way taller than 2 of her BUT, I guess it's just the way the camera angle is. With the bottom plate and two top plates it should be around 10' - 4 1/2". (Oh ya, I also think she's kind of sitting on the sill.)

Have a great new week CjAl.
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

Don_P

Don't forget to plumb and put a diagonal across the face of the walls on either the outside or inside until you sheath them. There is very little bracing them in that direction.

ajbremer


Monday Morning - November 28th, 2011

Thanks for that reminder Don_P, I'll get right on that.
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

CjAl

haha, ok. i was thinking she was either 4' tall or those were 12' walls.

i was considering twelve foot walls so i was interested


MountainDon

Simpson HH



http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HH.asp

Double and triple 2x studs may be necessary depending on the loads. Load info on the link above

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

ajbremer

#210
Sunday - December 4th, 2011

Days are colder and wetter here near mid-Oklahoma. The next few days are supposed to bring us down around and possibly below the 20 degree mark and rain and/or possible light snow is scheduled till Tuesday or so and then the suns supposed to stay out.

I went to Lowe's and got 10 more 2x6x10's ($5.50 each) and put them in my 'work truck' (my Festiva):



By the way, see what I wrapped the end of the boards with, old bicycle tubes. They are the best bungee cords ever and cling tightly to most any surface, I know it for a fact! I thought of using them when, many years ago, I bicycled across America (twice, first time 4,200 miles - second time 4,600 miles) and used them to wrap much of my gear all over my bicycle. When you wrap bicycle tubes around something, you pull them really tight and simply wrap it around itself 5 or 6 times when your done with the winding and they ain't never getting loose.

Now here's a picture of the 5 of us raising wall number 1. It was me, my son, my son-in-law, my neighbor, and my neighbors friend.



Now to talk a little bit about the kind of wood that Lowe's sells. As I was inspecting and choosing the 2x6x10's at Lowe's today, I noticed they felt really light weight, I thought to myself, 'man...is this balsa wood or something?) Anyway, after I got home and unloaded it onto my deck, I wrote down the information on the boards. Here's what is on them:

Idaho Forest
92  KD  HT
WWP   1/4EE
White Fir

I looked up White Fir and found a good link here: http://www.christmastree.org/trees/concolor.cfm. Is this wood low-grade? It was the only 2x6x10's that Lowe's carried.
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

CjAl

i noticed the same thing when doing my shed. most my lumber was from lowes. i had my nail gun set just right to drive the nails. i ran out and ran to my local parkers lumber and bought more studs. immediatly i noticed they were twice as heavy. when i went to nail them my gun was leaving all the nails about 1/2" or more out of the wood on the same settings and pressure

ajbremer


Wow, maybe I should be getting my lumber from somewhere else?
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

CjAl

i think its fine. my store does sell a select in 2x4 but not 2x6.

those studs i bought from parkers were a lot more expensive. there is a reason i keep running to lowes 30mi away


Don_P

White fir is listed in the NDS supplement "Design Values for Wood Construction" as one of the species in the combination Hem-Fir which includes California red fir, grand fir, noble fir, pacific silver fir, western hemlock, and white fir. If you can take a picture of the stamp. Lowes does play shenanigans with lumber when they can get away with it, I'm not seeing a grade designation.  WWP is the WWPA, Western Wood Products Association, the grading agency. 92 is the mill number. KD, kiln dried to <19% moisture content. HT, heat treated in the kiln to kill pests (most kilns surpass this temp while drying). 1/4EE, 1/4" eased edge, most dimensional lumber has a 1/8" radius on the edges this has an annoyingly large radius... it makes it harder to flush up to adjoining pieces IMO.

If all things are equal (which is a tall order), moisture content, knot structure, slope of grain, reaction wood, etc, THEN the heavy stick is the strongest. Wood is strong, air has no structural capacity for our purposes. A stud is not that big a deal... unless you go notching in ledgers and adding bending loads... For floor joists and rafters try to find something better. If you are doing ledgers and a kneewall use these studs on an endwall and find something better. Preferrably #2 or better rather than stud grade.

Select, prime, top choice, hi-line, etc are not strength grades. They are appearance grades the big boxes came up with to sell pretty lumber to consumers, they indicate absolutely nothing about strength.

But to clarify, Select Structural, SS, is the top structural grade and commands a legitimate premium. I use it when a load or span requires it. I don't avoid the perfume grades above, but I'm not fooled by them either. That is marketing, I'm shopping for structure. The strength grades you typically look for from strongest to weakest; SS, #1, #2 and for vertical use and vertical load only, stud. A stud is a #3 strength with #1 edge restrictions (to allow nailing of ply and sheetrock).

And to bring this full circle, I know it is all some of you can get, but hem-fir is often crap.

ajbremer


Thank you Don_P, that is great information. I also looked at a previous thread by you and found it very useful, here it is:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9183.0

There's a lumber yard near me here in Oklahoma that a framer friend of mine told me to check out, it's called Mill Creek Lumber. It's actually less than a 1/2 hour from me so I'm going to try to get over there today after work and see what they provide. Thanks again Don.
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

astidham

Quote from: ajbremer on December 05, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
Thank you Don_P, that is great information. I also looked at a previous thread by you and found it very useful, here it is:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9183.0

There's a lumber yard near me here in Oklahoma that a framer friend of mine told me to check out, it's called Mill Creek Lumber. It's actually less than a 1/2 hour from me so I'm going to try to get over there today after work and see what they provide. Thanks again Don.
I bought the majority of my wood at mill creek.
they are about 30 minutes from me and deliver for $5.00.
the local lumber yard 5 miles from the cabin charges $30.00 to deliver, so the choice was easy.
they do have quality lumber.
"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice"
— Henry Ford

ajbremer


Thank you astidham, I kind of figured that you would have known about them. I'll be stopping by there very soon.
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

ajbremer

#218
Thursday Night - December 8th, 2011 Oklahoma

Just thought I would show you how far I've been getting in the planning stages using the Punch software. Before I continue building the rest of my walls, I want to be sure I'm satisfied with where I'll place them and the size of each. It makes the job easier using this software.

I have decided to put a nook type loft on the other end of the larger loft and instead of making another set of stairs (or some other kind of way up) I really like the idea of a cat-walk. (We own 2 cats so in reality it would be a 'cats-walk'.) Here is the rendering:



And here's a look at the out side (but I'm going to be changing that loft window so we can have a better view in the nook-loft):

Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

CjAl

for my own use i would think i would want the shed dormer on the main loft side. but in my application that is going to be my sons bedroom, may not be your plans. i was thinking of a small 4' loft on the other side similar to yours with a catwalk. mainly to be able to open the windows more easily.

also having the catwalk like that it would be easy to use planks between the catwalk and the top of the walls to make finishing the cieling easier


ajbremer

#220
Monday Morning - December 19th, 2011 Oklahoma, USA

This is hitting the nail on the head...NOT!

I started my first long wall, built it in a 10' section.



Regarding the picture below: I built a 10 foot section and left out the 51" wide triple 2x12 header which you see in the picture above, lifted it into a starting position on top of saw-horses and then lifted it the rest of the way by myself - it wasn't too hard. Then I had to lift the header up there and put it in place. That 51" wide triple 2x12 header (you can see it in the picture above) seemed heavier than the wall!

I think I'll try to do all external walls in sections, that way I can manage them myself. This leads me to a question: When you build a long wall in sections, what is the best method of joining them together? Is it structurally a bad idea to build walls in sections?

Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

ajbremer

#221
Monday Morning - December 19th, 2011 Oklahoma, USA

Here's another youtube video of me hammering and trying not to hit my thumb or finger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqfGLKLOq9Q
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

Redoverfarm

Al don't want to sound critical but are the walls right side up.  Meaning there is no "jack studs" under the window headers but appear to be on the top.   ???  They transfer the weight from above the window down to the floor.  The header redistributes the weight to them so the window will not carry the weight from above.

ajbremer

#223
Monday Night - December 19th, 2011 Oklahoma, USA

Hi Redoverfarm, I'm glad you've commented.

Yes you are correct in seeing that there are no jack studs under those windows. I am going to  be installing Strong Tie Header Hangers to take the place of the jack studs. My local Lowes has a lot of Strong Tie stuff but not the header hangers so I'm going to have to look for them somewhere else. In a few posts above I mention the header hangers and show a link to them and talk about them.

Thanks a lot sir and have a wonderful Christmas, Al.
Click here to see our 20x30 and here to see our 14x24.

Don_P

You can build walls in sections, with normally just the two of us framing we do that quite often and like you I'll leave out big headers if it is getting unwieldy. I layout the full length of plates and break them halfway on studs. Be aware of intersecting walls and layout the lower top plate to give a long lap over breaks for the upper top plate. If I need to install headers later I'll leave out the adjoining studs to make side nailing easier. We had a couple of 17' tall walls to frame on one job. The first wall just about came back over us, i built the others entirely upright, in place, stick by stick. There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Although the cat doesn't really appreciate any of them   :D.